Need advice

[Goldenconure1]

Hi everyone. My golden conure seems sick and the shop owner needs to take him to a vet (isn't fully weaned yet but seems sick so it is up to the shop owner to get him checked out.... but he will likely take him to a very average vet....)

However the day I take him home I want to take him to a vet of my choice, meaning the best avian vet I can find.

The online directories are Very vague in terms of vet credentials.

Can you guys suggest to me the very best certified avian veterinarians in New jersey? I can't make a choice since my searches seem conflicting.

I want to take my poor bird to the best of the best.

 

[noodles123]

I don't live in NJ, but on Google, I found the following 3 options (they aren't the only ones)

Animal & Bird Health Care Center - www.Animalandbirdvet.com - Dr. Kenneth Dazen, VMD Dipl. ABVP-Avian
1785 Springdale Rd Cherry Hill, NJ 08003 - Tel. 856-751-2122

[SIZE=-1][SIZE=-1]
[/SIZE][/SIZE]
James McKinley, D.V.M., ABVP - Board Certified Avian Vet - Amwell Bird Hospital
625 Amwell Rd., Neshanic, NJ 08853 - Tel. 908/369-7373


Brynn McCleery, DVM, Diplomate ABVP (board-certified avian specialist)
Red Bank Veterinary Hospital - Tel. (732) 747-3636

 

[Laurasea]

You've had so many concerns with this bird,are you really sure you want to go through with getting this bird? A young bird that has been sick while young like this is very likely to health issues and behavior issues for the rest of it's life......if this is the bird for you no matter what my come then proceeded, and do all you can, knowing the bird may never be normal. I had bonded with a sickly baby GCC and bought her anyway, she ended up being stunted and sickly off and on for life, and her life was cut short. I don't regret it as I loved this sweet abd wonderful girl very much. But I also had experience with sick birds, and a prkffesional relationship with an avian vet that got me much reduced veterinary care. If this is your first parrot I would discourage you from preceding.

 

[Goldenconure1]

Thank you for the input it really is something to consider. Much like you with the green cheek, I have bonded with the bird deeply so far. He gets excited to see me and cuddles with me to the point he is a Velcro bird, he is very sweet.

Now is it certainly true that if the bird is sickly at a young age will Definrtely be sickly throughout his life? If so I may switch to another golden of I must although I love this little guy. Thank you so much for your concern I do appreciate it.

 

[noodles123]

It just depends on why he is sick....It isn't a great start but it may not be a death-sentence either..then again, it could be. It really depends on what is wrong with the bird.
My bird had a liver condition when I got her (she was an adult re-home)...It was MISERABLE, but she has overcome it. That isn't always the case, and things are not quite the same when talking about a baby.

 

[Goldenconure1]

It just depends on why he is sick....It isn't a great start but it may not be a death-sentence either..then again, it could be. It really depends on what is wrong with the bird.

Could you perhaps give examples as to what types of reasons he is currently sick, would lead to a potential death sentence later in life? For example, if the reason he is sick is X, then perhaps he can live a good life? And if the reason is sick is Y, then it could mean a death sentence? Thank. You so much for following my story too. If I must detach, I will have no choice but to choose another bird. What types of health problems indicate a death sentence usually?

 

[noodles123]

I can try---

The thing is, a lot of problems that could be fatal eventually are hard to test for....For example, ABV----Avian Borna Virus---the can progress to PDD (fatal). That having been said, not all ABV progresses to that fatal point. It usually is more easily spread to young birds (but not always). A lot of birds are carriers and can spread it with/without symptoms----some (but not all) adult birds have shown immunity, but over 45% are estimated to be carriers. Tests for ABV will show a false negative (even if the bird is infected) unless they are shedding the virus at the time of testing...so positive is always positive (forever), but a negative may or may not be correct. This disease can be transmitted while the bird is still forming inside of the mother. It can also be spread to others via the oral-fecal route....and yes, a bird can get it without literally eating poop deliberately. ----I mention this, because if your bird has this, he/she could present with a lowered immunity to other conditions, but he/she may not be shedding the virus if tested. It is very confusing, as many carriers have this and never present any symptoms...then again, some do...it can take up to 10 years post-exposure for a bird to show symptoms (if ever)...

Polyomavirus is another bad one (no cure), as are congenital organ issues...
psittacosis(although treatable) is also quite bad...Aspergillosis is a respiratory fungal infection that is very hard to treat and detect (As it usually stems from underlying immune-deficiency)--AKA it is typically a secondary issue. The mold that causes it is already everywhere in our environment, so for a bird to get it, something else usually has to be wrong with the bird). My vet explained that it is VERY hard to diagnose and treat, as it may or may not impact blood work and it won't show on a gram-stain...so basically, you are looking at scoping a bird +x-rays +ultra-sounds and educated guesses based on symptoms...

There are a billion diseases that birds can and do get, but my concern would be that there could possibly be an underlying condition which has rendered your baby more susceptible to bacterial/viral/fungal infection....If your bird has a weakened immune system due to, say, a liver condition (or something worse) , then they may treat the symptoms (bacterial infection) without catching the bigger problem.

 

[Scott]

I commend you for feeling a close bond to this bird, you may be the strongest advocate he ever has.

If the shop owner is not willing to take him to proper vet, might there be a compromise? Would they allow you to take him to a certified avian vet for an assessment and educated prediction of future health? Perhaps the charges could be split or other equitable arrangement. I know this may be a can of worms.....

 

[EllenD]

Thank you for the input it really is something to consider. Much like you with the green cheek, I have bonded with the bird deeply so far. He gets excited to see me and cuddles with me to the point he is a Velcro bird, he is very sweet.

Now is it certainly true that if the bird is sickly at a young age will Definrtely be sickly throughout his life? If so I may switch to another golden of I must although I love this little guy. Thank you so much for your concern I do appreciate it.

Buddy, we've already spoken privately at length about this bird and the entire situation with the pet shop and the "breeder"/owner, which is really quite bad and shady, so I'm not going to go back into that. I appreciate that you're already "bonded" to this baby bird, but if I didn't say this I would feel guilty myself...

You are setting yourself up for a horrible experience with this bird, and it's your first bird, so this is going to be just an awful, painful, tragic experience for you and your family, as well as extremely expensive, and it's most-likely going to end in tragedy after you spend a fortune and just tear your heart apart trying to help this bird. He's been badly bred, horribly hand-raised, he's way behind in the weaning process/age due to horrible weaning techniques that have caused regression, and you're almost guaranteed to be bringing home a young parrot with severe neurological and behavioral issues, and possibly an inability to develop either physically and definitely psychologically...And now the bird is "sick"?

You need to be an adult right now, and instead of thinking with your heart and your emotions, as you have strictly been doing this entire time, you need to take a step back from and look at this rationally and logically. Because every single little thing that you have described, mentioned, and spoken about regarding this bird, the shop, the breeding methods, and the bird's health has been just horribly wrong and red-flagged. I have seen so many young people get emotional about their first real pet, regardless of the species, and they think strictly with their emotions and their heart and their brains are just shut-off, and they say things like "I don't care if he only lives for a month or so, I'm going to give him the best month he could have", which while admirable always ends with a totally devastated and completely jaded person, who then cannot ever really connect with another pet ever again, for fear of it happening again. You just need to really use your head instead of your heart and look at the big picture here...Every single thing about this bird, the breeder/shop, the way this bird has been bred, raised, fed, weaned, just everything has been totally backwards and done in the most shady possible way, and it reeks of a greedy, uneducated, inexperienced, and uncaring pet shop owner who doesn't care at all about their animals or their customers, and only wants your money bro.

What exactly is wrong with the baby now? How is the baby "sick"? Realize that a baby bird that isn't even close to being weaned that becomes sick with an infection, illness, disease, etc. and that doesn't get proper care from an experienced Avian Specialist Vet IMMEDIATELY is probably going to not make it, as their little immune systems are not able to fight-off much...So YOUR WORRY RIGHT NOW, forgetting everything else, is that you're no going to be bringing this baby home for what, another 5 weeks or more? So you're talking about finding a proper Avian Specialist Vet to take the baby to once you have him in your possession after he's weaned, IN 5 WEEKS OR MORE...but he's sick right now friend. And he's an extremely young, unweaned baby bird with developmental issues already that is now suffering from some kind of illness, and this shop owner isn't going to even take him to an Avian Vet for diagnosis and treatment? Buddy, depending on what is wrong with this baby, if he doesn't get to an actual Avian Vet, get cultures, microscopy, imaging tests, etc., whatever he needs to properly diagnose what is wrong with him and also determine the proper medications to put him on, he's most-likely not going to make it another 5 weeks..

***Unfortunately, if this shop owner takes this baby to an Exotic's Vet or a General Vet, what they typically do is just simply put the bird on an Antibiotic immediately, without doing any tests, and it's usually Baytril (Enrofloxacin), and that's it, that's all they do. So if the bird is suffering from a Fungal/Yeast infection instead of a Bacterial Infection, or if whatever Bacterial Infection the bird has is not sensitive to Baytril or whatever Antibiotic they just automatically put him on without doing a culture to find out, then the bird is going to get worse and worse, which is exactly what usually happens. With an adult bird this is bad enough when they do this, as the bird is usually put on round after round after round of Antibiotics before they actually decide to do a culture to find out what is wrong with the bird...But with a young, unweaned baby with a weak, underdeveloped immune system, this isn't going to fly. This is very, very bad news buddy...

What exactly is wrong with the bird when you say that he's "sick"?

 

[Goldenconure1]

Hey Ellen. You are right I am absolutely am thinking with my heart. So I am thinking he is sick based on his rapid weight loss, his literal 24/7 fluffed feathers. His lethargy that has gotten worse in the last few days, and his more and.more horizontal posture over the last few days.

The only good "news" I can say is he shows short bursts of energy when I show up or when he is going to get hand fed. Then it is back to the above. . . Poop looks fine too. And he breaths with his beak shut which is good and does Not tail bob. He never touches any toys unlike all of the other 5 hatchmates. He is almost not responsive to stuff other than wanting Only to cuddle. He does literally nothing else.

Also it was another breeder who came into the shop asked me about him and pointed out something didn't seem right and that I should get him checked out.

So your advice is to ditch the bird which now is Definrtely in my cards. I will and can put my heart aside and choose another golden conure that just got hatched. BUT. Would you in any way, suggest waiting for him to see the vet first anyway before I switch? I only ask because I do have 14 more days before I cannot apply my deposit to another bird, so basically I have a bit of time to spend in this bird If any of you think it is a good idea or worth anything.

And bingo you were right. My shop owner is putting him on bacitryl tomorrow and seeing the vet on Thursday....

Trust me I am not saying oh screw the advice. I am just conflicted. But if it is the best for me to do and simply switch without even seeing the vet, then I must do what I must do.

 

[noodles123]

I would be cautious about getting another bird from that shop (if you don't get this one)---especially a cage-mate...
If this one is sick, the others could be too

 

[ChristaNL]

I was reading this is with a HUGE WTF??!!
What shop (I cannot even imagene a breeder acting this way) will sell/ display an obviously sick bird?

Run for the hills!


(and find a responsible breeder)

I know this sounds terrible, and I hate myself for even saying this: but bleeding hearts keep those @ssholes in business by buying the poorly bred, obviously not well fed/ maintained birds instead of going for the "good stuf".
As long as they keep selling birds there is no need for them to change anything, so more birds (and their new owners) will suffer.

 

[Laurasea]

Listen to EllenD, and everyone else! They use bad practice. All of the other birds are exposed and if this is a virus they all have it, and may or may not be actively sick for awhile. Demabd your deposit back and look for a breeder elsewhere. If you can't get your deposit back then you just paid for some very good experience in life and in parrothood. Better that than paying in heartache and more vet bills than you can imagine. Do not get a parrot from them. Abd please write a review on them to let others know. They are running a parrot mill!

 

[Goldenconure1]

Thank you all so much. With a sad heavy heart, but logical mindset, I will do what I must. It hurts to as I have 26 total hours of bonding with him just trying to be an attentive parront. But again, I will do what I must and abandon this bird to protect myself in the long run. #^$%ing sucks....

 

[noodles123]

So sorry

 

[Laurasea]

If they won't return your deposit, see if they will change to store credit, only get stuff that is packaged as many ha D's have touched those birds then handled store merchandise! You are being wise. Keep us posted on your next healthy properly raised abd weaned baby

 

[brighterdaysaviary]

I am sorry you had this horrible experience with this pet shop. Please do not purchase a bird from them or anything from that matter. Write a review to let others know of how your experience went.

Keep us updated on your journey to finding a loving reputable breeder than sells abundance weaned healthy babies!

 

[LordTriggs]

reading through this not only am I going to say to stick as far from that shop as possible but also REPORT THEM! Sorry but they are willing to sell you a bird that has known issues and is known to be sick? No responsible place would sell a sick bird and no responsible place would keep a sick bird on the premises mixing and infecting the others there, remember they're not doing you any special favours they're not giving you an opportunity, they are selling you a product. In this case a live product but a product non-the-less. If you saw a car at a dealer and they suddenly said "Oh yeah the fuel tank isn't working we need to fix that" then you came back to take another look and they said "yeah the engine has some issues, not sure what but I'll top up the coolant then you can take it to a mechanic if you want when you buy it" would you buy that car? Not in a million years

 

[LordTriggs]

also tell them you put a deposit down on that bird assuming it would be healthy. I would refuse to leave until the cash is back in my hand, threaten them with legal action if you must but don't let them keep that money

 

[EllenD]

You're right brother, it definitely does suck the big one. I have a lot more experience seeing crappy breeders and pet shop owners than you do, so it's not shocking to me at all, but you know what, I'm glad you think with your heart, because a lot of people don't, and the world would be a better place if they did. I didn't mean that you shouldn't think with your heart buddy, just that when you do so, you tend to get hurt. Using your head first is always better for the end-result. And that's a hard and painful lesson to learn, trust me I know.

I've just wanted to protect you throughout this entire process, because you've not described one single thing that has been done by this breeder/shop owner that has not been exactly typical of a shady, greedy pet shop owner/breeder who doesn't care about the birds that they breed or their breeders, only about selling them as quickly as possible and making money...So I've been trying to keep you from bringing home a baby parrot that is going to be nothing but heartache and then eventually tragedy.

And I'll be honest with you, I'm kind of glad that this baby bird started showing outward signs of illness like he has, and that it didn't happen after you brought the poor little guy home, because that's usually what happens. That's what I was trying to explain to you earlier with the health-guarantee and the vet-check. And the fact that he put the baby on Baytril without taking him to an Avian Vet really seals what you're dealing with here...

***And do not take home ANY bird from this shop, as you know very well that if one bird is ill, they are all ill...In case you're not aware of this, all birds possess an innate survival instinct in which they hide all outward signs of illness, injury, pain, etc. for as long as they possibly can. And they're extremely good at it. Most of the time birds are sick for months before we as people even notice that anything is wrong at all. So this baby bird has been sick for a long time, probably since right after hatching. And all of his siblings and the other birds in this shop, even though they are outwardly acting normally, are also most-likely sick with whatever infection/disease this little guy is suffering from. So you definitely do not want to bring any bird home from this shop, as you're only setting yourself up for spending a fortune on a sick bird that may die anyway.

And I hate to be pessimistic but I want you to prepare yourself, because it's very likely that this little baby that you've bonded with and that is now very outwardly sick may not make it, especially if the shop owner isn't taking him to any vet until Thursday, and we already know that the vet he takes him to is not going to be an Avian Vet. It's likely that whatever he is suffering from is not going to be helped by the Baytril he decided to just give him, and if he makes it until Thursday to go to whatever Vet he's going to take him to, if the vet isn't an Avian vet and doesn't take cultures to diagnose exactly what is going on, then he'll not get the correct treatment (and if he does do a culture and it doesn't show anything, the next step with a baby bird is x-rays, as you can't take blood from such a young bird usually, but my guess is that this shop owner isn't going to pay for any testing)...So just be prepared that this little guy may very well not make it. I hope that this isn't true, but it's unfortunately likely.

You are going to be a great parront, you really are. That we can all see. You just need to find yourself a private breeder that is reputable, and stay away from pet shops. You need to find a breeder who really cares about their babies, and who knows what they are doing, who properly weans their babies, who practices proper sterile techniques, and who gets their birds proper medical care with an Avian Vet.