Next steps !

[Skittles2016]

So skittles has completely mastered how to step up onto my finger using a treat. However, she won't step up without the treat now which I guess is understandable BUT I have put my finger up against her without the treat and she'll hover her leg and put It on my finger before quickly taking it away so I'm sure she knows but she's just unsure because there's no treat involved. So could someone please tell me how I can take the treat out of training so that I can ask her to step up anytime I like without having to show her a treat? Thank you

 

[Notdumasilook]

Patience... Id keep going with the treat reward right now as long as it works. Wont take long before "step up" becomes nearly automatic. Of course with any bird you will run across times they may refuse or be a lil stubborn, being perfectly content with whatever location they are at the moment. My critters have those times and unless I have to move them for a good reason I don't push the issue. In other words, I let them have the right to say "no". Im sure folks might disagree with me on that but I don't demand total obedience from them. My critters are more like family than servants. I get pretty good cooperation from them by just asking them to do stuff than if I was to command them.
Lil suggestion... since you got you a new young bird their... its a good idea to start a lil "towel training" and "syringe training". Teach your bird to take stuff from a syringe in preparation in case birdie gets sick and needs meds. Get em use to a towel early also, gradually, so they don't panic and get all stressed out if and when you need to towel a sick baby, or trim nails..etc. Just my 2 cents there. You AND your bird will be glad you did.

 

[Skittles2016]

Patience... Id keep going with the treat reward right now as long as it works. Wont take long before "step up" becomes nearly automatic. Of course with any bird you will run across times they may refuse or be a lil stubborn, being perfectly content with whatever location they are at the moment. My critters have those times and unless I have to move them for a good reason I don't push the issue. In other words, I let them have the right to say "no". Im sure folks might disagree with me on that but I don't demand total obedience from them. My critters are more like family than servants. I get pretty good cooperation from them by just asking them to do stuff than if I was to command them.
Lil suggestion... since you got you a new young bird their... its a good idea to start a lil "towel training" and "syringe training". Teach your bird to take stuff from a syringe in preparation in case birdie gets sick and needs meds. Get em use to a towel early also, gradually, so they don't panic and get all stressed out if and when you need to towel a sick baby, or trim nails..etc. Just my 2 cents there. You AND your bird will be glad you did.

Thanks for the advice! And no i completely agree, they are family and definitely not servants. I just figured it would be convenient if she would step up when I need her to if a situation arises that i need to get her somewhere. I'll keep up with the treat for now though.
As for the towel/syringe training I would really love to but I'm not sure how without scaring her and making her lose the trust that I'm only just starting to gain from her. Just like any bird new to stuff she doesn't like things looming over her, so I'm not sure how to go about it.

 

[Notdumasilook]

Hmm.. well lemme tell you what I did... When the bird is out on ya playing have a dishrag handy. As you play with the lil critter maybe touch him with the end of the rag or something. Usually they will bite or chew it a bit. Just make it a game.. eventually tossing the rag over the birds head and taking it back off.. once that's ok.. go further and cover the bird with the rag... the take it back off. Make it a game.. like "pee pie" you might play with a child. My conure enjoys the game and isn't freaked out by being covered at all. Also get him use to being briefly restrained.. using perhaps both hands at first ... Do it just for a moment at first try. You might fee him tense up a bit..or might get a lil protest bite. The important thing is that he learns he is not in danger when held like that. Be patient... rarely is this learned in one easy lesson. As for the syringe... get one from a pharmacy and load it with a lil karo syrup. Use the same cues you use with the birdie when you give him a treat. Offer the syringe with a drop of syrup hangin off the end. See if curiosity get him to try it... then probably he will go back for more. Again..be patient... Your goal is to eventually have your bird comfy with being restrained for a lil bit wrapped in the rag and willing to slurp syrup from a syringe. My lil conure Booger no longer needs restrained to take his meds. I can hold up a syringe and he comes to me and begs for it.. lol. If you look there are probably a good many youtube vids showing towel and syringe training that might be helpful as well.

 

[Flboy]

Something I do that works, why? Don't know! If I restrain JoJo, or hold one of his wings out, as long as I am counting, he is good! I will open his wing, he will start to struggle, but the moment I do a slow 3 count, he freezes!

 

[Skittys_Daddy]

I've had a somewhat similar issue with my Skittles for quite some time now. He doesn't like to work too hard for his treats. He expects me to bring them to him. lol. He does his little rapid head bobbing and makes his 'kissy noises' and usually I give in and give him his treat. Getting him to fly over to me to get it is often a chore. He expects me to go over to him and give it to him like room service. I think he and I have our training backwards.

Of course he may bug me like crazy for a treat and then I give him one, then go to leave the room and he drops his treat and follows me to keep me in 'line of sight'. He can fly to me if I leave the room, but not for a treat.

 

[wrench13]

On the stepping up, just start to make the size of the treat smaller and smaller - I use pine nuts for training, any they cut easily. Just make the pieces smaller and smaller and smaller, eventually disappearing altogether. I am of the different camp - stepping up is the one command that has to be obeyed unless there are really good reasons to let Salty off the hook. You never can tell when one day you may need move the bird in an emergency.

On toweling, yes playing with them helps a LOT. Again I used pine nuts to get him used to them. I cut a small 4" x4" square of the towel and hide treats under it, and now Salty is actually glad to see the towel. We play peek a boo, and nitenite ( I lay him on his back on the towel and he pulls it over himself, one side at a time) and tug-o-war, in addition to the find the treat game.

 

[Skittles2016]

On the stepping up, just start to make the size of the treat smaller and smaller - I use pine nuts for training, any they cut easily. Just make the pieces smaller and smaller and smaller, eventually disappearing altogether. I am of the different camp - stepping up is the one command that has to be obeyed unless there are really good reasons to let Salty off the hook. You never can tell when one day you may need move the bird in an emergency.

On toweling, yes playing with them helps a LOT. Again I used pine nuts to get him used to them. I cut a small 4" x4" square of the towel and hide treats under it, and now Salty is actually glad to see the towel. We play peek a boo, and nitenite ( I lay him on his back on the towel and he pulls it over himself, one side at a time) and tug-o-war, in addition to the find the treat game.

Thank you! I have started making the treats smaller but I find she goes for my fingers instead, and I'm trying to understand why she's biting me now because I don't think she's scared of me anymore? She always wants to be near me, she'll rush to the front of her cage to get a scratch when I walk in, she cuddles up to my hand but when it comes to stepping up if she can't see a treat she'll bite as hard as she can! My fingers are really feeling it haha bruises all over them so I'm a little confused there. She knows how to do it she just doesn't like being asked to get on my finger it seems like? But once she's on she'll sit there for a moment quite peacefully. Confusing!! Wish we could speak to them!

I'll start introducing a towel, but really i'd love to try and cut down on the biting first. It is mainly in training she does it otherwise like I said she's a real sweetheart and loves falling asleep snugged up to my hand.

 

[Skittles2016]

I've had a somewhat similar issue with my Skittles for quite some time now. He doesn't like to work too hard for his treats. He expects me to bring them to him. lol. He does his little rapid head bobbing and makes his 'kissy noises' and usually I give in and give him his treat. Getting him to fly over to me to get it is often a chore. He expects me to go over to him and give it to him like room service. I think he and I have our training backwards.

Of course he may bug me like crazy for a treat and then I give him one, then go to leave the room and he drops his treat and follows me to keep me in 'line of sight'. He can fly to me if I leave the room, but not for a treat.

Yeah same situation. I think she gets distracted quite easily and wants to wander off which isn't part of the training! Also! On the topic of flying, I'm guessing this is where she's still a little unsure but once again it confuses me slightly.. so she knows how to step up etc although a little reluctant and as I've mentioned she won't do without a treat.. anyway, If i walk away she'll fly after me but she'll hover even though my fingers out and end up landing on something else. It's as if she doesn't understand that she is able to land on it? Or she thinks I might do something horrible? we've made so much progress but I can't help feel some days we're going backwards which is irritating but I can't do much about it because I'm sure she doesn't see it like that. I just find it hard to understand, especially as she is the first bird I have had to train from complete basics. And I'm no professional!

 

[Notdumasilook]

Getting bit when offering treats seems to be a conure thing. Booger use to do that a LOT... Basically its his "defend food" instinct kicking in.. (bitting the hand that feeds him). He isn't being evil... just confused.. hah. He has gotten much better about that but still now and then wife or myself will get chomped giving a goodie. I expect he will grow out of it eventually.

 

[Skittles2016]

Getting bit when offering treats seems to be a conure thing. Booger use to do that a LOT... Basically its his "defend food" instinct kicking in.. (bitting the hand that feeds him). He isn't being evil... just confused.. hah. He has gotten much better about that but still now and then wife or myself will get chomped giving a goodie. I expect he will grow out of it eventually.

Haha well that's somewhat reassuring, though she does occasionally do it at her own free will for example she'll squawk for my attention I'll come over and stroke her she'll be all content for about 10 seconds then whip her beak round and go to town on my finger hahaha. She is a baby so I guess she'll get better, but should I not be teaching her it's wrong? Is it something they'll stop as they get older. When I got my 2 month budgie 4 years ago she didn't bite much so I didn't have that problem to deal with..

 

[Notdumasilook]

Well that can also be "love nibbles" taken to extreme. Ive not had much problem with Booger on bite pressure when he is doing his lil roughhouse play... he doesn't "CHOMP" during those times. Now Cookie was a diff story. Playing he would remove flesh until I got him aware that was a "no no". Now we can rough house and if he gets too enthusiastic I just tell him "be easy" and he backs off. From the pics you posted methinks your birdie trust you just fine so that's not the problem. With Cookie... teaching him to back off... when we beak/finger wrestled if he grabbed me too tight I just gave his beak a bit of a squeeze (not painful mind you) then said "be easy" and backed off pressure. Bingo.. he got the idea what I was showing him. He is a quick learner. Might be just as effective if you just give your birdie a stern "no".... if he knows the concept of no. Ive also found that gestures... like a "finger wag" with the word no helps. Birds communicate thru gestures as well as vocally, just like humans.. so both together seem to work better. Use positive reinforcement as well. Praise goes a long way with my critters and they respond well being told what great lil birds they are.

 

[Skittles2016]

Well that can also be "love nibbles" taken to extreme. Ive not had much problem with Booger on bite pressure when he is doing his lil roughhouse play... he doesn't "CHOMP" during those times. Now Cookie was a diff story. Playing he would remove flesh until I got him aware that was a "no no". Now we can rough house and if he gets too enthusiastic I just tell him "be easy" and he backs off. From the pics you posted methinks your birdie trust you just fine so that's not the problem. With Cookie... teaching him to back off... when we beak/finger wrestled if he grabbed me too tight I just gave his beak a bit of a squeeze (not painful mind you) then said "be easy" and backed off pressure. Bingo.. he got the idea what I was showing him. He is a quick learner. Might be just as effective if you just give your birdie a stern "no".... if he knows the concept of no. Ive also found that gestures... like a "finger wag" with the word no helps. Birds communicate thru gestures as well as vocally, just like humans.. so both together seem to work better. Use positive reinforcement as well. Praise goes a long way with my critters and they respond well being told what great lil birds they are.

Oh for my little one to be aware it hurts haha well I've been saying "no biting" and lightly pressing my finger against her beak... she seems to listen for a couple of seconds and then goes right back to it. She'll sometimes start off lightly and then get a little too into it and that's when blood is shed!!! I don't mind enduring the blood and gritting my teeth through the pain, just as long as I know it's not impossible to get her to understand what I'm trying to say

 

[Notdumasilook]

Indeed... and sooner the better. Communication is the key with my critters. I've gone to great lengths to try and look at our relationship thru "birdie" eyes. On some things I have just been lucky. You do want to somehow get it across what level of pressure is acceptable while you still have all your fingers ). From the sounds of it, hes playing, not being vicious. Just be consistent and he should come around.

 

[Skittles2016]

Indeed... and sooner the better. Communication is the key with my critters. I've gone to great lengths to try and look at our relationship thru "birdie" eyes. On some things I have just been lucky. You do want to somehow get it across what level of pressure is acceptable while you still have all your fingers ). From the sounds of it, hes playing, not being vicious. Just be consistent and he should come around.

Ahhh I'm going to need your help again please been getting worse the past few days, regarding biting. I don't understand because this doesn't seem like playing she'll actually make a loud squawk and scrabble at my finger with her beak, but I'm not doing anything differently than I was before and so I'm just getting more chunks of flesh taken from my finger I know it's only coming up for a month that I've had her and we definitely have made progress but definitely not in the biting part. I don't know what method to use, I can't use the ladder method because we're still working on step up and that's another thing.. I've started doing step up (reward) and one step up (without reward) like that and she was great to begin with and then when she realised sometimes she wasn't getting a treat she started biting me and refusing to step off my finger and wouldn't let go off my flesh because she didn't get a treat! Clever of her but not good! I'm trying to get her to understand stepping up doesn't always result in a treat but she refuses to believe that nonsense she'll also just now randomly lean out towards my hand to grab it and start attacking it? Not going to use the word "hate" because that's probably silly, but it certainly feels like that's how she feels about me all of a sudden!! She knows how to play by herself and she has fly time so she's not bored. I make sure she always has water and fresh food (pellets, mixed seed and veg with a small amount of treat) she has calcium perch and vitamin blocks, basically everything I could think of to keep her happy and healthy so I'm entirely sure it's not that she's missing something? And like you said yourself I believe also, she's no longer "scared" of me, she comes over to see me, squawks when I'm gone, loves being scratched by me but her eyes go all sharp now so I know she's not playing I'm just not an expert and would love some help I try and keep calm but it's painful and frustrating

 

[Kentuckienne]

You might have to keep giving her a treat every time. It sounds like she has trust issues...after all, you did go back on your promise of step-treat. Maybe it's too soon to have your hands involved. Go back to the beginning of step-training, click and treat if she tries, and when it seems she's 100 percent at ease ask for a little more, like a full step onto the dowel, and then keep repeating that until there is no fear or hesitation at all. Maybe even stay there a couple days. And instead of giving treat every other time, break treats into smaller and smaller pieces so you can continue to give them. It might be that she will never work without a treat, but the treat can change from food to a head scratch or a ride across the room, and one day she might make the connection and step up for free while getting treated for another skill. Disclaimer: I've only got one bird's worth of experience, use your intuition. If your brain says "ok she should be doing this by now let's move on" but your gut is saying "she stil looks a little uncomfortable with this" then go with your gut.

One thing I did with a bird that went for my finger instead of the treat - and I only had to do it once - was to pull the treat back and eat it myself, right there, yum yum (it was a nasty stale Cheezit). He really wanted those crackers, so he dropped the bite game instantly.

 

[Skittles2016]

You might have to keep giving her a treat every time. It sounds like she has trust issues...after all, you did go back on your promise of step-treat. Maybe it's too soon to have your hands involved. Go back to the beginning of step-training, click and treat if she tries, and when it seems she's 100 percent at ease ask for a little more, like a full step onto the dowel, and then keep repeating that until there is no fear or hesitation at all. Maybe even stay there a couple days. And instead of giving treat every other time, break treats into smaller and smaller pieces so you can continue to give them. It might be that she will never work without a treat, but the treat can change from food to a head scratch or a ride across the room, and one day she might make the connection and step up for free while getting treated for another skill. Disclaimer: I've only got one bird's worth of experience, use your intuition. If your brain says "ok she should be doing this by now let's move on" but your gut is saying "she stil looks a little uncomfortable with this" then go with your gut.

One thing I did with a bird that went for my finger instead of the treat - and I only had to do it once - was to pull the treat back and eat it myself, right there, yum yum (it was a nasty stale Cheezit). He really wanted those crackers, so he dropped the bite game instantly.

Thanks. She does go on my finger completely fine it's just if she doesn't get a treat that time she'll attack. And she still likes being stroked as I said previously. But anyway, I'll go back to giving her a treat each time. I only progressed further because I really did think she was ready, she knows the drill now she sits there hovering her little leg in the air waiting for the command. But I guess not.