PBFD Free (now what?)

[noodles123]

I have an 11-year-old Umbrella Cockatoo. I am her 4th home and I know little about her past.

She came to me with a liver condition which has since been corrected due to changes in diet + lactulose and milk thistle medication (she no longer takes these and her levels remain stable).
Anyway, she over-preens her chest a bit (but not severely--no sweaters needed) and this behavior has decreased over time. She has had crop cultures etc performed and all is well. She isn't super-bald, but when her crop is full, you can see a grey patch..or, it is also visible when she stretches out without puffing her feathers.

Her blood work is normal, gram stains are normal, weight is good, feather quality has improved, BUT, she recently started to grow an irregular looking feather under her right wing--- rather than receding, the blood seemed to extend farther down the shaft over time---ending right before the keratin ends and extending about 2 inches...if not more from the origin of growth).

I had her tested for PBFD (as a result of this feather) and the results were negative. She also tested negative for polyoma etc years ago.
That having been said, she does seem to shed crest feathers more than I would expect (and she isn't plucking them either). When shed, they grow back fine and they look strong. Nutritionally, I think she is okay, but she isn't a huge fan of her pellets. Consequently, I do sprinkle some Nekton-S supplement powder on her morning oatmeal in order to compensate for her pellet avoidance (she chews on them and grinds them up, but eats very little). I also add Bene-bac powder to her food daily. She doesn't eat human food/junk food BUT if I have to give her medicine that cannot be mixed with oatmeal, I will put a few drops on a teeny-tiny fragment of a baked chip because I know for a fact that she will eat it all.

Could this weird feather be the result of an injury?
What are your thoughts?
In order for you to visualize the weird feather's current state, picture this: if you were to remove the feather and hold it vertically, you would see that the blood on one side of the shaft (1/2 of the vertical shaft) appears to have receded, but the other side of the shaft still looks pink. Normally, when she grows feathers, all of the blood recedes gradually (but consistently along the entire shaft). The blood also doesn't normally extend further over time before receding (which has been the case with her weird wing feather).


Thoughts?

 

[Anansi]

Hmmm... hard to say. Quick thinking and action on your part to have her tested for PBFD. You know as well as I that tests for PBFD are infamous for false negatives (and even false positives), but I really don't see a need for you to drive yourself crazy over this considering that the only cause for concern at the moment is one abnormal feather. That one feather could've been affected by any number of things right at the moment of its formation, including momentary stress or even a damaged follicle.

Wait, I just remembered you mentioned shedding more crest feathers than you would consider normal. Does this leave her crest depleted?

Also, if she doesn't eat pellets what does she eat aside from oatmeal? Or in her oatmeal if it is a constant staple of her meals?

 

[noodles123]

She gets a mix of Volkmam seed + Zupreem pellets (fruit)--no peanuts, no sunflowers, no corn, no junk (but she would starve without the seed). I give her daily fruit/veg and a bit of oatmeal at breakfast and dinner (not enough to fill her up),in order to mix in a bit of Nekton-S vitamin powder (yes, I am cautious with this due to overdose potential in any supplement) and probiotics...I also do this so that she doesn't eat as many seeds.

Her crest was totally full for the last few months (you couldn't see any gaps--it was like a wall when up) but now it has a few gaps in it, as she has lost 4 crest feathers within the past 3 weeks. There are no bald spots when you look at her head (except the normal one that all U2s have under their crest), but when he crest is up, there are recent gaps. New feathers are growing in but they are still small.


I know PDFD tests can be negative, but if it were that, then I am pretty sure that she would have gotten a positive, given the fact that testing was based on visual symptoms etc (plus, they did a blood panel with more than one test in it- they didn't just test a feather or something).

 

[ChristaNL]

You could switch to Sille's 'magick oatmeal' (the keratin coated kind) for a bit if you think it is a nutritional issue. I know you are on top of her menu, but still
(It worked miracles here with Sunny - so I am a fan- and since you feed her oatmeal anyway ...)

I have no idea what could have caused a feather to grow in wonky, a small nick to the side, a mite at the wrong place at the wrong time... it could be anything.

 

[ParrotGenie]

I had the same problem with my rescue male umbrella cockatoo Cooper, he also had liver issues as well that been long corrected and when had him completely tested and is now 100% on all blood test, even had him tested for PBFD and negative, but he still chew his feathers, he will even chew on my female umbrella cockatoo feathers as well. I glad someone started a thread about this.

 

[OutlawedSpirit]

How do her wings and tail look? I ask because I wouldn't stress yourself too much about PBFD if her wings and tail, other than the one abnormal feather, are for the most part full. PBFD tends to hit the flights and tail feathers first, causing them to not grow or to grow abnormally first. Also, with cockies, PBFD tends to cause a lot of beak and foot abnormalities, more so that with other species.

It is very possible that with just the one abnormal feather, that it was damaged before the vein started to recede, which made it so it wasn't able to do so properly. I have had that issue with my grey, who will chew his flights as they grow in, and if he bends the shaft, they will sometimes end up falling out looking like a PBFD-type feather because the kink in the feather shaft doesn't allow the blood to recede.

 

[noodles123]

How do her wings and tail look? I ask because I wouldn't stress yourself too much about PBFD if her wings and tail, other than the one abnormal feather, are for the most part full. PBFD tends to hit the flights and tail feathers first, causing them to not grow or to grow abnormally first. Also, with cockies, PBFD tends to cause a lot of beak and foot abnormalities, more so that with other species.

It is very possible that with just the one abnormal feather, that it was damaged before the vein started to recede, which made it so it wasn't able to do so properly. I have had that issue with my grey, who will chew his flights as they grow in, and if he bends the shaft, they will sometimes end up falling out looking like a PBFD-type feather because the kink in the feather shaft doesn't allow the blood to recede.

Her beak looks a little rough at times (one mandible (bottom) is often longer than the other (bottom)- likely due to one-sided chewing preferences). I am very careful about keeping up with it, and when I first got her, one of the major clues about her liver issue was the rate of her beak growth. That having been said, repeat blood-work indicates that the liver is back to normal, yet the beak continues to grow quickly longer on one said than the other (with regard to lower 2 mandibles)...She has always had a bit of a scissor beak going on---very mild and probably due to issues early on. The vet said that as long as I remain as diligent as I have been in terms of keeping it trimmed, that it shouldn't cause issues. She came to me that way. She has a variety of toys (wood, plastic, pumice, grass etc) and she is pretty well-adjusted otherwise.

Her feathers have a few gaps in the wings and tail, but they don't always---a few came out from both places during a recent transition.

Again, she looks a bit ragged, but not nearly as bad as many cockatoos, so I don't know...It is just weird.

 

[ParrotGenie]

How do her wings and tail look? I ask because I wouldn't stress yourself too much about PBFD if her wings and tail, other than the one abnormal feather, are for the most part full. PBFD tends to hit the flights and tail feathers first, causing them to not grow or to grow abnormally first. Also, with cockies, PBFD tends to cause a lot of beak and foot abnormalities, more so that with other species.

It is very possible that with just the one abnormal feather, that it was damaged before the vein started to recede, which made it so it wasn't able to do so properly. I have had that issue with my grey, who will chew his flights as they grow in, and if he bends the shaft, they will sometimes end up falling out looking like a PBFD-type feather because the kink in the feather shaft doesn't allow the blood to recede.

Her beak looks a little rough at times (one mandible (bottom) is often longer than the other- likely due to one-sides chewing preferences). I am very careful about keeping up with it, and when I first got her, one of the major clues about her liver issue was the beak. That having been said, repeat blood-work indicates that the liver is back to normal, yet the beak continues to grown quickly on one side of her lower mandible...She has a bit of a scissor beak going on---very mild and probably due to issues early on. The vet said that as long as I remain as diligent as I have been in terms of keeping it trimmed, that it shouldn't cause issues.



Her feathers have a few gaps in the wings and tail, but they don't always---a few came out from both places during a recent transition.


Again, she looks a bit ragged, but not nearly as bad as many cockatoos, so I don't know...It is just weird.

Do you have closeup pictures showing beak and ad-normal feathers. It does sound odd the way the beak is growing?

 

[noodles123]

How do her wings and tail look? I ask because I wouldn't stress yourself too much about PBFD if her wings and tail, other than the one abnormal feather, are for the most part full. PBFD tends to hit the flights and tail feathers first, causing them to not grow or to grow abnormally first. Also, with cockies, PBFD tends to cause a lot of beak and foot abnormalities, more so that with other species.

It is very possible that with just the one abnormal feather, that it was damaged before the vein started to recede, which made it so it wasn't able to do so properly. I have had that issue with my grey, who will chew his flights as they grow in, and if he bends the shaft, they will sometimes end up falling out looking like a PBFD-type feather because the kink in the feather shaft doesn't allow the blood to recede.

Her beak looks a little rough at times (one mandible (bottom) is often longer than the other- likely due to one-sides chewing preferences). I am very careful about keeping up with it, and when I first got her, one of the major clues about her liver issue was the beak. That having been said, repeat blood-work indicates that the liver is back to normal, yet the beak continues to grown quickly on one side of her lower mandible...She has a bit of a scissor beak going on---very mild and probably due to issues early on. The vet said that as long as I remain as diligent as I have been in terms of keeping it trimmed, that it shouldn't cause issues.



Her feathers have a few gaps in the wings and tail, but they don't always---a few came out from both places during a recent transition.


Again, she looks a bit ragged, but not nearly as bad as many cockatoos, so I don't know...It is just weird.

Do you have closeup pictures showing beak and ad-normal feathers. It does sound odd the way the beak is growing?

I do but it is almost impossible to capture the beak in a way that shows the issue...
I do have some early pictures of the feather.

I will try to post. Vet said feather looked worse in pictures than in real-life though....

 

[noodles123]

Here is a close-up of her beak- again--impossible to really see what I am talking about, but it isn't quite centered and one of the lower mandibles tends to grow longer than the other.
You can also see her bald spot in the 1st picture.

The feather picture is from when I first took her to the vet and the vet said it looked worse in the picture than in real life. It also has improved altogether since then.

 

[noodles123]

I posted some pictures for those who requested them (see above).

 

[ParrotGenie]

I see it now and beak is not center and is growing more on one side and that is not normal and the shape as well? I know that metabolic abnormalities could be cause by liver disease, it could be also caused by Viral, bacterial, or parasitic infections of the beak tissue itself? It can take 9-12 months to start seeing beak go back to normal, if she had liver issues. Being a combine blood feather and other feather related issues and beak issue worries me, something not right?

How did they do the PBFD tests. Beside DNA probe tests, they sure have done a feather follicle biopsy, they also do tests on the skin as well?

 

[noodles123]

agreed...just can't figure it out...Beak has been this way , blood is normal (2x recent cbc + liver panel), + PCR PBFD panel etc...weight, foot grip, etc= all normal..her beak shape looks okay to me, but it's off center due to longer lower mandible..swabs/gram stains=normal too---vet thinks she may have been born this way or had issues earlier in life that caused her beak to be slightly off.

 

[ParrotGenie]

agreed...just can't figure it out...Beak has been this way , blood is normal (2x recent cbc + liver panel), + PCR PBFD panel etc...weight, foot grip, etc= all normal..her beak shape looks okay to me, but it's off center due to longer lower mandible..vet thinks she may have been born this way or had issues earlier in life that caused her beak to be slightly off.

Maybe as she could have had a injury early on, which would also cause it as well? Hopefully nothing serious and can figure it out, or won't be serious enough to affect her much.

 

[EllenD]

I highly doubt that any of this is due to a nutritional issue, especially if her Liver and Kidney panels have been normal, and she's not showing any deficiencies at all...Just because a captive/pet bird that doesn't fly 10 miles a day foraging for their food eats a staple diet of seed-mix does not in any way mean that they are going to have Liver Disease or nutritional issues at all, IF the seed-mix you're feeding the bird has no Sunflower Seeds, No Nuts, and no Dried Corn or other "fillers" that the cheap, junk seed-mixes contain. In-fact, I truly believe (and my CAV totally agrees with me, he's actually the one who made this point to me in the first place) that a pet/captive bird is much better-off nutritionally eating a healthy, low-fat, varied seed-mix as their daily staple-diet than they are eating a Fruit-pellet that is loaded with sugars that ends-up being stored in their Liver as fat anyway! Most people who feed their birds a Fruit-flavored pellet just don't understand or even think about this factor, all they think is "Pellet=Good, Seed-Mix=Bad", and that is such a falsehood...It's no different than people forbidding their human kids from drinking any Soda at all, and instead letting them drink all the concentrated Fruit-Juice that they want! Most Fruit-Juices contain every bit as much sugar as regular soda does!!!! And even the Fruit-Juices that are "100% Juice" are still full of sugar even though they contain no "added" sugar like most regular Fruit Juices do, as we all know Fruit itself contains a ton of natural sugars, such as Fructose...So even though the "100% Juice" Fruit Juices contain less sugar than regular Fruit Juices or Soda do, they are still loaded with sugar...So it's the same concept as the Fruit-flavored pellets, they give the bird's owner a false sense of security simply because their bird is eating a pellet instead of seed-mix...I'd much rather that my birds ate a healthy, low-fat seed-mix like Tropimix, Higgin's California Blend, any of the Volkman's seed-mixes (before they added Peanuts to them), Zupreem Smart-Selects, etc. as their daily-staple than any of the Fruit-pellets...

Either way, I don't think that Noodle's plucking of her chest, nor the wonky feather has anything to do with her diet...As far as the "wonky blood-feather", if I had to guess I bet on it being the result of an injury to a blood-feather. I don't know if you remember this, but my Cockatiel, Duff, broke a huge blood-feather in a flight-feather almost 2 years-ago, and I couldn't get the bleeding to stop so after 5 minutes I had to pull it out of her wing with a pair of needle-nosed pliers...It was the most awful thing I've ever had to do to one of my own babies, she screamed so horribly and it nearly killed me to do it to her, but it saved her life, as she had already lost a couple Teaspoons of blood at that point, so she didn't have much longer...Well, obviously she went straight to her CAV after this happened, and he cleaned it up under gas-sedation and everything looked fine, but that flight feather has never grown-in properly since, and as a result Duff has not been able to fly since...She can glide pretty far, but she cannot get any lift at all...

It kills me to admit this, but when i yanked that blood-feather out of her wing (it was her largest flight-feather, of course it was, lol), I permanently damaged the follicle...So while the feather does keep growing back in, it ALWAYS grows-in "wonky", sometimes it will even grow to it's full-length, but it actually grows a keratin sheath around the entire length of the feather that never sheds...So she ends-up with a fully-grown flight-feather, full-length, that is encased inside of a huge keratin sheath...My CAV said that the only way to stop this from happening is to actually put her under general-anesthesia and then attempt to remove or "damage" the follicle so that a feather will no-longer grow from that spot at all again...I haven't had this done as it doesn't hurt her or cause her any pain, so why put her under general-anesthesia and risk it when it's nothing more than a feather we have to pull-out once every few months...But the point is that usually when a feather grows-in "wonky" like that, it's due to an injury to that particular feather (if it only happens once), or to the actual follicle if it happens repetitively. So i wouldn't worry about the wonky blood-feather at all unless that same feather grows-in the same way or at all "wonky" the next time she molts it...

As far as the feathers of her crest seemingly growing-in constantly/falling-out constantly, that also happens with Duff too, and I finally figured out that it was due to a combination of two things, actually by watching a Moluccan Cockatoo at the Rescue that was with us for almost 2 years who had the same thing going on, he constantly had pin-feathers in his crest, and it was often very "thin" looking, not always, but often. So I was trying to figure out what the issue with him was, I tested him for PBFD and he was negative, and he was not at all a plucker...So we put a web-cam on his cage and one of our behavior specialists/trainers sat and watched him for a good 2 months (god love her, lol)...She figured out his crest was constantly being pulled-out/damaged from 2 things...#1 and the main-reason was that he spent most of his time on the perch in the top of his cage, and his crest was constantly rubbing back and forth on top cage bars, all day long, every day...And then #2 was something I noticed with Duff, and that was the only bird in our flock that Duff like and is bonded to (before Dylan the Dove moved-in, not that he could do this to her anyway, lol) is Bowie, and she is constantly bending-over for either Bowie or me to give her head/neck/face scritches, and Bowie goes right for her crest and over-preens them...

I don't think you have another bird, at least not one that preens Noodles, but is it possible that her crest-feathers are rubbing up against anything, like her cage-bars, or something else? Also, do you see her scratching her head/crest-feathers with her feet at all? it's possible she's over-preening her crest and that's why she is constantly growing them in...The bottom-line is that usually when they have individual feathers that have grown-in "wonky" or they have a weird blood-feather, it's typically due to an injury or that particular feather getting stuck in something or being banged-off of something...And the same goes when it seems like they are constantly "molting" or growing feathers back-in/constantly having pin-feathers in one specific area like their crest-feathers, it's typically due to them over-preening the area, another bird over-preening that area, or especially on the top of their heads it's likely they are rubbing up-against something constantly...Typically these specific/individual feather "issues" or "oddities" are not due to a Feather-Destructive Behavior, nor due to a medical condition or Avian Viral Disease...

***Now it might be worth having a skin-swab done on her head and having microscopy done and a culture sent-out to be plated just to rule-out a Fungal/Yeast infection, especially in-combination with the area on her chest that is obviously the result of her plucking herself...A lot of bird owners and even Avian Vets will do a full Fecal work-up that includes microscopy/Gram-Staining as well as a Culture/Sensitivity, and they often will even do a Crop-Flush and do a full work-up on that as well, but they often fail to simply swab/culture the exterior-skin to rule-out a topical fungal/yeast infections, which can often be quite severe/advanced and very commonly the cause of plucking one specific area. So if Noodles has yet to have an exterior skin-swab taken, I highly suggest that you have that done ASAP, because usually if there is an exterior fungal/yeast infection, it will be quite apparent by simply looking at the swab under a microscope; usually there will be yeast all over the slide...

 

[Laurasea]

Here is a close-up of her beak- again--impossible to really see what I am talking about, but it isn't quite centered and one of the lower mandibles tends to grow longer than the other.
You can also see her bald spot in the 1st picture.

The feather picture is from when I first took her to the vet and the vet said it looked worse in the picture than in real life. It also has improved altogether since then.

Has me stumped. But Noodle has a cute face!!! It is worse since first post. Hope you get a answer, that is not bad.

 

[noodles123]

Here is a close-up of her beak- again--impossible to really see what I am talking about, but it isn't quite centered and one of the lower mandibles tends to grow longer than the other.
You can also see her bald spot in the 1st picture.

The feather picture is from when I first took her to the vet and the vet said it looked worse in the picture than in real life. It also has improved altogether since then.

Has me stumped. But Noodle has a cute face!!! It is worse since first post. Hope you get a answer, that is not bad.

What is worse since first post? Her beak? Which first post are you talking about? I can't even recall. Her beak to me looks as bad as it always has, but it has always weirded me out. A lot of how it looks depends on camera angles. It is hard to see unless you look at her head-on.

 

[Laurasea]

The feather. I remember when you posted it was just a red dot... Not the big red line it is now. Beak looks good, don't remember seeing it before.

 

[noodles123]

The feather. I remember when you posted it was just a red dot... Not the big red line it is now. Beak looks good, don't remember seeing it before.

Ah, lol yes....sadly, that was a different feather. She had one with a split in it and then she had an odd teeny-tiny little red dot on the back of one of her neck feathers.


Now that you mention it, I wonder if this wing feather is the replacement for the one that had the split in it.
Hmm......


They are different feathers, but that one may have been in the same location...or very nearby at least. She shed it a few months back.