Problem Amazon

[Keatz]

I have an aggressive, loud Amazon, and lately I've been feeling depressed and overwhelmed by him, and I don't know what to do with him.
He has his own room with play stands and toys. Lately, he's been spending a lot of time in there, because when I let him out, he screams. I like to put him in a cage and sit him outside for an hour or two each day, but lately when I do that, he screams.
On top of that, he can be very aggressive. There are days when he's so aggressive that they only way I can pick him up is with a towel.
Every time I get visitors, he goes off his nut, being very aggressive and loud. I can't wear new clothes in front of him without him screaming at me and trying to attack me. If I let him in the lounge out of his cage, he attacks me if I pick up anything, like the remote to the TV. I can't handle food in front of him without being attacked.
I'd like him to spend time in his cage in the lounge, but he won't sit in his cage without screaming.
He's three and a half. He started becoming like this when he turned one. Rather than get better, he's only gotten worse with time.
He gets angry if I go out for too long. If I'm out for the day, when I get home, he attacks me.
Some days, I feel emotionally worn down and enervated by him.
I've thought of selling him, but he really needs to go to someone who really understands and likes Amazons. I wish I knew someone I could just give him to, but unfortunately, I don't.
I'm not inexperienced when it comes to parrots. I used to have and sulpher crested cockatoo, and she was fine. I also have an eclectus, and he has a really sweet nature.
Does anyone have any suggestions about what I can do with him? Someone suggested I get him a friend, but I couldn't handle two of them.

 

[kme3388]

I understand how you feel. One of my parrots can be aggressive. Everything is on his terms. It can be stressful. I believe he’s became cage aggressive. That mixed with some spring hormones has been a real challenge for me. He screams when people walk by my house. I let him watch out the window to keep him busy. I would NEVER let a stranger handle him because I know he’ll bite, and mean business. The door to the room his overnight cage is in is closed, and locked when guests especially with kids are over. I don’t want an accident. My parrot can be kind as well. He will snuggle into me and ask for head scratches. However when he is done he is done. I do have to remind myself often that parrots aren’t domesticated, and are wild. I was informed that my parrots breeding age ends at 30-35 years of age. I am hoping things settle down. It could be wishful thinking. I do adore my parrot don’t get me wrong but there are days that I am very challenged.


Getting 2 parrots can go in 101 unpredictable directions. I myself wouldn’t do it to get my parrots a friend. Too much risk for unpredictable results.

With your Amazon being so young I wonder if hormones are playing a huge factor here, and aren’t the first few years once they hit puberty the worst? I’ve adopted so I got to skip those years.

My Ekkie is very sweet too, and his personality it phenomenal. I couldn’t have asked for more. He is more challenging on the medical/diet portion of things. He’s so sensitive.

 

[texsize]

I don’t have any easy solution for you.

I have 3 amazon’s and have similar issues though not so extreme.

Bingo is sensitive to the clothes I wear.
If wearing the wrong thing and I try to pick him up I will get bitten.

My two Mexican redhead are the screamers.
I got Luna a rescue first and she screamed a lot till I got Merlin a little less than a year later.
One the one hand Luna screams less often, on the other hand I have two screamers.
But they have rules.

If Bingo is playing/ having fun Merlin screams.
If Merlin is playing/ having fun Luna screams.

If both are out of cage Luna screams if Merlin isn’t real close to Luna.

I try the best I can to simulate their natural rhythm.
I let them out morning and evening for flying and screaming, this is the natural time for them to….. noise generator.

Wing clipping can sometimes help with being attacked and behavior modification.
I’m not a big fan but desperate times call for desperate measures.

 

[DonnaBudgie]

I didn't think birds went through a "birdie menopause"
I thought they reproduced until the end but maybe that's just in the wild where the end doesn't involve assisted living! There's a 70 year old albatross in New Zealand (I think) that is still laying an egg and raising a chick every two or three years. I know that when breeding budgies best results are with females 1 to 4 years old but they can breed older.

Anyway, I know little about Amazons other than what I've heard and read. We have quite a few active members who have Amazons, so hopefully they will help.

 

[kme3388]

I didn't think birds went through a "birdie menopause"
I thought they reproduced until the end but maybe that's just in the wild where the end doesn't involve assisted living! There's a 70 year old albatross in New Zealand (I think) that is still laying an egg and raising a chick every two or three years. I know that when breeding budgies best results are with females 1 to 4 years old but they can breed older.

Anyway, I know little about Amazons other than what I've heard and read. We have quite a few active members who have Amazons, so hopefully they will help.

I’m not a vet but I came across some information about parrot breeding ages. Rather Dr. Google is true or not is another subject.

 

[DonnaBudgie]

I don't think anyone really knows. In the wild vs in captivity can be very different. Anecdotal evidence is notoriously unreliable. I like to rely on scientific logic when faced with unknowns like this. I believe there are reasons for things like menopause.

Human women stop reproducing around 50 years old BECAUSE their offspring are dependent on their mothers for at least 14 years which allows women to reach 64 when their last child becomes "self sufficient". At 64 she will start to be less able to keep up with children and her own life will be coming to a natural end. Even though modern medicine has expanded our life expectancy, most women in their 70s wouldn’t be able to keep up with young children.

Parrots babies are dependent on their parents (both or either parent) for a period of 2 months for the smallest budgies to 6 months+ for the largest parrots. Even allowing for a full year of parrot parental dependence still doesn't support the need for a parrot "menopause" like in humans.

However, It's pretty well known that human eggs decline in quality throughout a woman's reproductive years. I would assume the quality of parrots' eggs also declines as they age, but can parrots reproduce in their most senior years? I think they can, but the hatch rate and fledge rate may be lower because their eggs are aging. English Budgie breeders say the best ages to breed a hen is 1 to 3 years and after than "success" declines, though I'm not sure what they mean by "success". Chick quality? Chick quantity? Survival of the hen? I've read that egg laying chickens don't lay as many eggs after three years old but continue to lay eggs for their entire life of 5 to 10 years. That seems to be the best evidence against avian menopause.

I hope my attempt at scientific logic makes sense and wasn't too boring.

 

[kme3388]

I don't think anyone really knows. In the wild vs in captivity can be very different. Anecdotal evidence is notoriously unreliable. I like to rely on scientific logic when faced with unknowns like this. I believe there are reasons for things like menopause.

Human women stop reproducing around 50 years old BECAUSE their offspring are dependent on their mothers for at least 14 years which allows women to reach 64 when their last child becomes "self sufficient". At 64 she will start to be less able to keep up with children and her own life will be coming to a natural end. Even though modern medicine has expanded our life expectancy, most women in their 70s wouldn’t be able to keep up with young children.

Parrots babies are dependent on their parents (both or either parent) for a period of 2 months for the smallest budgies to 6 months+ for the largest parrots. Even allowing for a full year of parrot parental dependence still doesn't support the need for a parrot "menopause" like in humans.

However, It's pretty well known that human eggs decline in quality throughout a woman's reproductive years. I would assume the quality of parrots' eggs also declines as they age, but can parrots reproduce in their most senior years? I think they can, but the hatch rate and fledge rate may be lower because their eggs are aging. English Budgie breeders say the best ages to breed a hen is 1 to 3 years and after than "success" declines, though I'm not sure what they mean by "success". Chick quality? Chick quantity? Survival of the hen? I've read that egg laying chickens don't lay as many eggs after three years old but continue to lay eggs for their entire life of 5 to 10 years. That seems to be the best evidence against avian menopause.

I hope my attempt at scientific logic makes sense and wasn't too boring.

I’m a nerd nothing educational will be boring to me. I was just excited to hear this as hormones in any parrot isn’t fun. If their hormones, and breeding goes down with age it really would be a nice thing to know. Thank you for sharing this. It gives me a new perspective on breeding.

 

[Geslina]

I guess I am very lucky. I have a Blue Front Amazon who I think was born in the 1980s. I am his third owner, got him when he was around 7 years old. He has always been a quiet bird, no behavior issues - he chews on everything and wants to murder everyone but me, but that’s just Amazons. I’ve lived in many apartments with him, and never had an noice complaint. Occasional jungle calls in the morning and at dusk, but even that is only maybe once a week.

Birds are very vocal, and even healthy birds are noisy. They use their voice to communicate with their flock, including us. They use it to alert the flock of danger. But just random screaming for no reason, who knows? Has he been checked out by a vet? Are all his needs being met, including attention from you? Is his diet good, and varied, does he have a lot of toys? Sometimes attention is what it is - people get parrots and spend a lot of time with them as babies, then when the novelty wears off, they stop giving so much attention., and the birds don’t understand that. Could he be feeling bored or lonely? Could he be reacting to something in his environment, maybe he is jealous of your other bird, or overstimulated by something? My Amazon is very jealous of me giving attention to someone or something else. He doesn’t even like it when he sees me talking on the phone. It could also be hormones.

The first thing I would do is get him checked out medically. Rule out any health issues. (Ask your vet about hemp oil for parrots, I heard it helps calm them…I actually found this forum because I am researching it as a supplement, I hear it is good for parrots, but I want to find out more before getting it.)

I am not big on “bird rooms” - I have always kept my bird in my living room. I don’t think they like being shut off somewhere alone, they want to be where the action is. I only lock him in his cage when I have company, because, of course, the murder thing…but mostly he is where I am.

Sometimes a bird just isn’t a good fit - especially when people have expectations and the bird doesn’t meet them, or in your situation, where he is unpleasant to have around and is stressing you out. Could be he would be happier in a different environment, maybe in home where he is an only birds. But I understand what you are saying…Re homing them is hard if you don’t know anyone. I would be so afraid someone would re sell him to someone inappropriate, or someone who wouldn’t take care of him or abuse him. But there are people out there who take in problem birds, or birds no one else wants…as a last resort.

 

[DonnaBudgie]

I guess I am very lucky. I have a Blue Front Amazon who I think was born in the 1980s. I am his third owner, got him when he was around 7 years old. He has always been a quiet bird, no behavior issues - he chews on everything and wants to murder everyone but me, but that’s just Amazons. I’ve lived in many apartments with him, and never had an noice complaint. Occasional jungle calls in the morning and at dusk, but even that is only maybe once a week.

Birds are very vocal, and even healthy birds are noisy. They use their voice to communicate with their flock, including us. They use it to alert the flock of danger. But just random screaming for no reason, who knows? Has he been checked out by a vet? Are all his needs being met, including attention from you? Is his diet good, and varied, does he have a lot of toys? Sometimes attention is what it is - people get parrots and spend a lot of time with them as babies, then when the novelty wears off, they stop giving so much attention., and the birds don’t understand that. Could he be feeling bored or lonely? Could he be reacting to something in his environment, maybe he is jealous of your other bird, or overstimulated by something? My Amazon is very jealous of me giving attention to someone or something else. He doesn’t even like it when he sees me talking on the phone. It could also be hormones.

The first thing I would do is get him checked out medically. Rule out any health issues. (Ask your vet about hemp oil for parrots, I heard it helps calm them…I actually found this forum because I am researching it as a supplement, I hear it is good for parrots, but I want to find out more before getting it.)

I am not big on “bird rooms” - I have always kept my bird in my living room. I don’t think they like being shut off somewhere alone, they want to be where the action is. I only lock him in his cage when I have company, because, of course, the murder thing…but mostly he is where I am.

Sometimes a bird just isn’t a good fit - especially when people have expectations and the bird doesn’t meet them, or in your situation, where he is unpleasant to have around and is stressing you out. Could be he would be happier in a different environment, maybe in ppp what you are saying…Re homing them is hard if you don’t know anyone. I would be so afraid someone would re sell him to someone inappropriate, or someone who wouldn’t take care of him or abuse him. But there are people out there who take in problem birds, or birds no one else wants…as a last resort.

I'm not a fan of keeping birds in their own room either unless you hang out in their room a lot or you have them set up for breeding. A companion bird needs to be with its flock and its human(s) being the flock. Especially if the bird is in a cage- even a large cage is very restrictive. Imagine being alone in a room the size of a large walk in closet. I'd be pretty ornery too.

Maybe your home isn't the right home for him. It's not shameful to admit it hasn't worked out for you or your bird. What's shameful is keeping a bird in an unhappy situation for decades because you couldn't admit it didn't work out.

 

[kme3388]

This really isn’t your fault. Parrots (birds in general) don’t belong in captivity. They can all be challenging in their own ways. Some are worse than others. If I were you I’d start from scratch with target training. It creates a bond. You can find videos on YouTube on how to do this. You can start with the parrot in the cage. Make sure your parrot is getting 12-14 hours of uninterrupted sleep. No one likes to deal with grumpy parrots. Diet it’s important as well. I do chop/pellets in my parrots cages. They get nuts, seeds, and treats when they are out, and training. There are videos on how to do diet changes on YouTube as well. It can take a lot of time to covert a diet for a parrot. The only other reason my parrots get treats is in their foraging toys for inspiration. Some may think this is mean but parrots aren’t a lot different than dogs here. They like their treats, and they can be used as rewards, and inspiration. Exercise will dissipate parrot screaming but nothing completely gets rid of it. If you target train in their cages, and have them crawl from one end of the cage to the other they get tired. If you live with multiple people it is possible your parrot has bonded with someone else. You can still target train but parrots do have preferences in people sometimes just as we humans do. I myself work through things with my parrots. If they don’t like the color purple I’ll wear purple shirts intentionally, and train with them in my purple shirts. I do my best to adapt my parrots to more and more things. If something happens to me I want all of my parrots to find homes because they are so well rounded.

 

[rheashard2]

I agree with much of the information here. Need to add that parrots are flock animals. In captivity they need to be near the center of activity. Negative behaviors can result if not. It's not uncommon for parrots to react negatively to clothing color, type, design. As well as being negative about jewelry, hair color, tatoos, pets, strangers and other things.

 

[DonnaBudgie]

This really isn’t your fault. Parrots (birds in general) don’t belong in captivity. They can all be challenging in their own ways. Some are worse than others. If I were you I’d start from scratch with target training. It creates a bond. You can find videos on YouTube on how to do this. You can start with the parrot in the cage. Make sure your parrot is getting 12-14 hours of uninterrupted sleep. No one likes to deal with grumpy parrots. Diet it’s important as well. I do chop/pellets in my parrots cages. They get nuts, seeds, and treats when they are out, and training. There are videos on how to do diet changes on YouTube as well. It can take a lot of time to covert a diet for a parrot. The only other reason my parrots get treats is in their foraging toys for inspiration. Some may think this is mean but parrots aren’t a lot different than dogs here. They like their treats, and they can be used as rewards, and inspiration. Exercise will dissipate parrot screaming but nothing completely gets rid of it. If you target train in their cages, and have them crawl from one end of the cage to the other they get tired. If you live with multiple people it is possible your parrot has bonded with someone else. You can still target train but parrots do have preferences in people sometimes just as we humans do. I myself work through things with my parrots. If they don’t like the color purple I’ll wear purple shirts intentionally, and train with them in my purple shirts. I do my best to adapt my parrots to more and more things. If something happens to me I want all of my parrots to find homes because they are so well rounded.

I'm very curious about your statement that parrots and other birds don't belong in captivity. I tend to agree with you even though I have 19 budgies. How do you reconcile in your mind having captive birds and believing they shouldn't be captive? My issue with budgies is they should be able to flu. I keep 8 of my budgies in the largest cages possible for my situation and let 10 of them fly free in my house all day. I won't rehome the caged ones because I don't want them in small cages.

 

[kme3388]

I'm very curious about your statement that parrots and other birds don't belong in captivity. I tend to agree with you even though I have 19 budgies. How do you reconcile in your mind having captive birds and believing they shouldn't be captive? My issue with budgies is they should be able to flu. I keep 8 of my budgies in the largest cages possible for my situation and let 10 of them fly free in my house all day. I won't rehome the caged ones because I don't want them in small cages.

I would consider myself the best of the worst situation in captivity. I take my parrots to the vet, I train with them daily, they are on a vet recommended diet that is current. I’m still not good enough. They belong in the wild flying, and interacting with their flocks. I’ll never be able to provide them with the enrichment a rain forest can.

 

[rheashard2]

I would consider myself the best of the worst situation in captivity. I take my parrots to the vet, I train with them daily, they are on a vet recommended diet that is current. I’m still not good enough. They belong in the wild flying, and interacting with their flocks. I’ll never be able to provide them with the enrichment a rain forest can.

I agree and disagree. Basically it's too late now. Examples; dogs, cats, horses, chickens, turkeys, fish, reptiles and so much more. Feral cats, dogs roam city streets. I was followed by a couple of dogs who tried to attack me when my back was turned. Unfortunately for them I am not dog shy, trained them, horses, mules etc. I demonstrated that I was alpha. I followed them home. Confronted the owner. He said confining dogs even with a fence was wrong. They should be free. That statement forced me to call 911. Our neighborhood has kids, older adults, wheelchair bound individuals and more. I stayed there until a unit showed up. It's we, humans who are the problem, doing improper pet care, breeding etc.

 

[kme3388]

I agree and disagree. Basically it's too late now. Examples; dogs, cats, horses, chickens, turkeys, fish, reptiles and so much more. Feral cats, dogs roam city streets. I was followed by a couple of dogs who tried to attack me when my back was turned. Unfortunately for them I am not dog shy, trained them, horses, mules etc. I demonstrated that I was alpha. I followed them home. Confronted the owner. He said confining dogs even with a fence was wrong. They should be free. That statement forced me to call 911. Our neighborhood has kids, older adults, wheelchair bound individuals and more. I stayed there until a unit showed up. It's we, humans who are the problem, doing improper pet care, breeding etc.

I couldn’t have said that better myself. We humans really are the problem. I’m sorry that happened to you although it was a blessing in disguise that you had training to handle aggressive dogs. It could have gone in a different direction with someone inexperienced. Which is common with parrots.

 

[kme3388]

The other issue I have with captive parrots is their over grown nails, and beaks. Even good owners who stay on top of these things, and provide toys, and perches run into issues. This is not an issue in the wild. Their feathers get dull due to poor diet, and lack of bathing at times. I have a macaw who is petrified of water, and was aggressive when introduced. Water is so important for their feathers. This doesn’t happen in the wild. The feather pluckers break my heart. It’s basically unheard of in the wild. I could go on and on.

 

[wrench13]

THis years hormone season is such an abberation! Exceptionally long and crazy strong. My little Amazon started pluckig months ago and despite all test for medical reasons, and a rich daily life, my vet feels it is hormone driven, In fact she said ALL her parrot patients are having a Hell of a time this year. I;d suggest to the OP to do all the anti mating season behavior stuff to minimize the effects and hold on tight til its over!
On Hormones (or Horror-mones)

Parrots go thru puberty, just like humans do, because their internal metabolism tells the body –“Hey time to start thinking of babies”. When that happens, their little bodies get flooded for the first time with hormones. The when is only estimated, puberty can occur from 6 months or so for small parrots like budgies, cockatiels and parrotlets, with the larger parrots taking longer, progressively. Macaws and cockatoos, it could be a year or more before it starts. Puberty (and successive mating seasons) is not a precisely timed event. Depending on the individual parrot, it might occur earlier or later then the norm for that species, and other factors come into play on when it starts.

Like human children (and our parrots are so close in temperament to children), puberty can bring on all sorts of behavioral changes, which the parrot has absolutely no control over. One minute they are their normal selves and all of a sudden, BAM, they bite you, and the next second they are back to their normal selves. Mood swings like this are so common that for inexperienced parrot owners, this is the time when parrots are most often given up or surrendered. They can do a 180 degree turn and formerly the person who was THE person is now like yesterday’s news and the parrot might fixate on another member of the family (and it might not be one who actually likes parrots!). This does not happen every time, but it does happen, and the former favorite person needs to wheedle and scheme to get back into the parrots inner circle.

Some other behavior you might encounter:

• Trying to mate with objects like toys or food bowls, even your hand. Butt rubbing is what this looks like.
• Regurgitation and trying to feed inanimate objects (or you ! )
• Shredding paper, bedding, or any material that can be made into nest like stuff
• Seeking dark hidey places
• Being abnormally loud and making new clucking noises or others

Puberty can last anywhere from a few months to a year or so in larger parrots, again depending on species and the individual parrot. The 2 things to take away on this is that it will come to an end eventually and the other is to try and not let unwanted behavior become normal or habitual.

And now we come to mating season. Most parrots go through an annual mating season. Species like Eclectus parrots and a few other rare ones can have mating season at any time the environment produces mating triggers. For the rest, its once a year. Mating season is triggered by some things we can control and others that we cannot. The behavioral result of mating season is very similar to the ones displayed in puberty, with the exception of switching allegiances to a new person, which is rare. Uncontrollable rapid mood swings are pretty common and can vary with the intensity of the hormone release. Some years mating season can be pretty mild, and some are just killer for the poor parrot, as the drive to mate is frustrated (unless you are a breeder). The diurnal cycle of daylight to night time is one of the stronger triggers. Some folks keep their parrots on a day/night cycle that mirrors this, while others keep a 12hr day/night cycle. Either one has its pros and cons and we won’t get into that here.

Some things you can do to reduce (but never 100% eliminate) the effects of mating season are:

• Remove any shreddy type materials and limit access to them when the parrot is out of the cage
• Prevent access to dark hidey holes
• No touching the parrot anywhere except for the head and neck. This is a biggie as this can be interpreted as mating behavior by the parrot.
• Limit or remove sugar bearing foods, like fruits and high fructose foods like corn, any pasta, etc
• Lots of exercise – a tired parrot is less likely to indulge in mating behavior

Always keep in mind that the parrot has no control of itself during these periods! A bite received during them is 100% different than a bite you might get because the bird is angry with you. You should not use “shunning” or other methods to modify the behavior, because they have no more idea of why they bit you then you do. But, same as a normal bite, you should try to avoid being in a situation where the bite COULD occur. Cuddling with your parrot, giving/getting kisses or letting them near the face during mating season is likely not a good idea! Along these lines, during mating season, try to not let behavior like biting, humping or other outward signs become habitual.

Finally – always, always remember – “THIS TOO SHALL PASS”. Your loving friend is still in there and will be back!