Should I???

Maria_Metropolis

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Parrots
White Face Cinnamon Pearl Pied Cockatiel - "Muffin"

Hatch Date: October 4th, 2013
RIP July 4, 2014
Hello, I'm a new member here. I am looking for an eclectus, but they're so hard to come by in my area (Chicagoland). I was at a pet shop today and they're about to go out of business. They had two SI eclectus, one male and one female, no toys in the tiny cages, and fed a diet of pellets and there was vitamin supplement in the water. I was pretty worried about that considering I did my research and saw that they need fruit and veggies (no pellets or food dye). They were 3.5 months old and pretty nippy, although the male did cuddle if you got him close to your chest. There is a 48 hour vet check/return if sick, problem. I guess I was just worried if they could have some internal organ damage or other health issues with that horrible diet. Please advise, because I can't find eclectus babies anywhere, and the adults aren't even up for adoption.

How does he look to you? Beak color? Should I go for him. He will be $1650 in total, with tax, by the time I pay for him and the macaw size cage (the bird is $1150).

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Babies usually are a bit on the nippy side. With time, patience, training and a large dose of love, these amazing birds will become incredible members of your family!
 
his feathers do look a little dull but with a change of diet , lots of fruits and veggies he should be ok and I agree babies are a little nippy Shamrock gets a little nippy at times
 
He looks older then 3.5 months old to me. At this age he haven't been on the existing diet long enough to really do some major damage. So if you decide to get him, he looks pretty good to me, start changing his diet and he should be fine. The nipping part is easy part to train out of them, that's not an issue at all.
 
Thanks for your responses. It's either him, or a 7 year old male that a family wants to adopt out to a loving home. The 7 year old is aloof and doesn't get a long with the dog. Would I have a better prospect with a baby?
 
I would go for the baby in the pets store. He's young enough to turn around any possible damage (food-wise) and to get him out of there asap would be fantastic for him...and for you. As another poster said, this species is most amazing...and the whole family will get involved whether they want to or not because they are curious and very social and so so so much fun. Yay you!!!
 
Well, let's clarify a few things.

Pelleted diets are not necessarily bad for eckies, it's just that their diet should include more fresh foods.

It's doubtful they would have any damage this young.

What you worry about with eckies primarily is a thing called "toe tap" which is a diet-related disease primarily caused by over supplementation. Fresh foods are best with eckies, cuz over supplementation can't happen that way.

I believe there are commercial pellets specifically formulated with Eckies in mind, that don't contain any dyes, or other things they could develop allergies to. This, combined with fresh fruits, veggies (particularly sweet potato) is usually the way to go.

If you want an Eckie, and can provide a proper home for it, I see no reason why not...
 
I completely agree with Michael. He IS older than 3.5 months, otherwise his beak would be MUCH darker. :)
 
I don't know if you've been on the Land of Vos site yet, but I consider Carolyn Swicegood the go-to person on Eckies. This is from her post on Toe-Tap and Diet:

TOE-TAPPING AND WING FLIPPING
Overall, the Eclectus is a healthy and hearty parrot. When fed appropriately and provided clean and relatively stress-free surroundings, health problems are rare. However there is one worrisome syndrome to which Eclectus parrots are prone. Toe tapping, or more accurately, foot clenching, is the rhythmic, involuntary opening and closing of one or both feet. The toenails sometimes make a tapping sound as they hit the perch during the opening and closing of the foot. This repetitive and involuntary motion should not be confused with the display of purposeful foot stamping that cockatoos sometimes exhibit when they feel threatened.

Wing flipping, or flicking, also is an involuntary and repetitive movement of the wings. The wings droop and then are tightened against the body, making a slight popping sound. All parrots flick their wings occasionally. They sometimes do it several times in succession to rearrange the wing feathers, to show excitement and pleasure, and to prepare for sleep. This behavior is not repetitive and is not a symptom of a problem. Wing flipping as part of the toe-tapping syndrome is repetitive and continuous. Some birds exhibit symptoms of this syndrome for weeks, or even months, although it usually does not last longer than a week. It is stressful for owners and birds alike.

Some of the remedies that have helped to alleviate the symptoms are exercise, calcium supplements, the elimination of all vitamin and mineral supplements including spirulina and pellets, and treatment with a detoxifying formula of aloe and herbs. The prudent course of action when a bird has these symptoms is an immediate vet check with comprehensive blood work including tests for metal toxicity. Although many vets are not yet familiar with the syndrome, it is important to rule out metal toxicity which can cause toe tapping and wing flipping. Metal toxicity can be fatal but with diagnosis and chelation treatments, the bird's health can be restored. Only blood tests can reveal metal toxicity, as well as calcium deficiency, another culprit.

Causes of the syndrome

Obviously, there are a number of triggers for the toe tapping and wing flipping syndrome experienced by some Eclectus parrots. We have attempted through a general survey to determine some of the factors that the affected birds have in common.

Birds with perfectly normal blood work can be affected and these are the cases that baffle owners and veterinarians alike. To date, no specific research studies have been reported. Owners have been frustrated to discover that their veterinarians are not always aware of this syndrome and therefore doctor and client must investigate causes and solutions together.

One of the first triggers of toe tapping to be discovered was the over supplementing of vitamins and minerals. When an Eclectus parrot is consuming a full complement of nutrients from its diet, especially if pellets are a good portion of the diet, the addition of supplemental vitamins and minerals can start an episode of toe tapping in a susceptible bird. The reason that one bird is affected while others on the same diet remain symptom free is perhaps a matter of sensitivity, just as food sensitivities depend upon the individual chemical makeup of each bird.

The food supplement that has caused the most cases of toe tapping and wing flipping appears to be spirulina. It is a microscopic, spiral-shaped blue-green algae which is a single celled plant. It is often touted as the most nutrient-rich food in the world, which just might be the problem for some Eclectus parrots. Many people swear by the health-giving properties of spirulina for themselves and their pets. One of the manufactured bird diets most popular with Avian veterinarians is fortified with spirulina. However, since Eclectus thrive on a nutrient-sparse diet in the wild, it is possible that this nutrient-dense food is simply too rich for the system of some sensitive individuals and therefore causes the toe tapping and wing-flipping syndrome. Another fact worth consideration is that "all spirulina is not created equal". Because it is grown on water, quality control is an important issue.

Calcium deficiency

Another trigger of the toe-tapping and wing-flipping syndrome is low blood levels of the important mineral, calcium. Blood tests will reveal whether or not blood levels of calcium are low and the syndrome usually clears up quickly once calcium levels are restored to normal. One veterinarian stated that calcium should be supplemented not only when a blood test indicates low calcium, but low normal calcium levels as well. Toe tapping sometimes clears up within an hour of the administration of calcium (when low calcium caused the problem). Liquid NeoCalglucon, available from pharmacists without a prescription, is one source of oral calcium often recommended by veterinarians. There are calcium and magnesium supplements from health food stores that also are effective but calcium should not be given full time on a long-term basis without testing and monitoring by a veterinarian. Natural sources of calcium are safe and easy for the owner to provide. Baked egg shells are calcium rich and easily assimilated by healthy birds. If cuttlebone is available, it is possible to get a therapeutic amount of calcium into a bird that is experiencing toe tapping by "shaving" cuttlebone onto a favorite food. There has been some concern about cuttlebone contaminants so a source of cuttlebone that is routinely tested would be good.

Calcium deficiencies do not occur in healthy birds with normal metabolism if they are given the proper diet. Eclectus parrots effectively assimilate necessary nutrients, including calcium, from whole foods unless there is a problem. It is important to know the best food sources of calcium. Parrots lack the enzyme needed to digest milk products so dairy products are not the best calcium source for them. Leafy green foods such as kale, greens such as mustard, turnip and dandelion, broccoli, as well as almonds (a big favorite of Eclectus), Brazil nuts and white navy beans contain good amounts of calcium. Other food sources of calcium are apricots, beans, carrots, beets, endive, figs, hazelnuts, oranges and watercress.

THAT IS "THE BIBLE" FOR ECKIE DIETS IN MY BOOK!
 
Thanks for all the information. I was also considering spirulina, and now that you mention the toe tapping, I'll stay away from it.

BTW, how old do you think he looks in that photo? They had two females too, but he was the most cuddly. He would only cuddle if you held him very close to your chest and "hugged him." Otherwise, he was flapping away, nippy, biting, and the whole nine yards, which is to be expected I guess. He gave me a pretty good bite at the store. I must have tasted good. LOL!

I also saw him poop, and it was very watery, so that's concerning to me as well.
 
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Well, in my opinion, the males are more touchy-feelie than the females, generally, but Eckies are not really macaw or squawky-too cuddly.

The males serve the females during breeding season. So they are hard wired to do as they are told. The females tend to be bossy.

Improper diet with these guys can cause them to pluck as well. Watery poop is probably normal.

I'm the wrong person to ask about age related stuff. I only dealt with adult Eckies at the rescue... and for what it's worth Eckies were some of the least dumped of all the birds, and the ones that were were usually females, for plucking and biting.

The most dumped were large toos, amazons and macaws. (In that order.)
 
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LOL about the females being bossy. Very matriarchal species I assume.

I'm not worried about providing the bird with a proper diet as I do shop organic and healthy, and I'm an anal label reader. I do Whole Foods for almost all my grocery shopping.

I just worry that the bird will be sick and the pet store guy will run off with my money because he's going out of business next week, and I'll have a sick animal (incurable).

This is a photo of the 7 year old male Ekkie that someone wants to sell to me with the cage for $600 total.

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She said he will step up for everyone and loves attention, but he doesn't get along with her dog, and he needs attention (they work a lot). She also said he's a "one person" bird, which conflicts with what others have said about these birds. She said he can be cuddly at times.

How does he look?

She said he's molting now.
 
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In breeding season, they make the nests...

The males come calling. The females "test" them by seeing just how much they will do for them. Bringing them food, nesting materials, etc. Doing their bidding.

It is not uncommon for a female Eckie to have a harem of five males catering to her every whim... including THOSE needs. [It's good to be the queen, eh?!]

And, wild behaviors arise in captivity... during mating season they can be *****y and demanding with their human companions.

Males on the other hand, are hard wired by nature, to serve... therefore they are the cuddly ones...

AND WITH AMAZONS THE EXACT OPPOSITE IS TRUE. Males establish the nest. And they are the ones who get territorial and *****y/bite-ey during mating season.

It all goes back to their wild natures.
 
He is in good feather.

One person issues tend to be about the lack of proper socialization.

These are FLOCK birds NOT pair bond birds. They do not pair up in the wild. So that would be an abnormal behavior. It's all about only one person has ever handled that bird, so that is the person the bird trusts.

So this is a HUMAN problem.
 
He is in good feather but he needs a concrete perch to trim his beak down a bit. Yes they're flock animals but they do find certain ones to be their mates, even though they can have multiple mates it doesn't mean they don't treat one a little different then another. But they're easy birds to train in my opinion.
 
Thanks everyone, lots of food for thought.
 
I should also mention that if I were to get this 7 year old, I would be his third owner. I just found this out. Is that a red flag???
 
Well, I went to see the 7 year old eclectus male tonight, and I found some disconcerting things, which may not be disconcerting to others, but I just wanted to see if others agreed with me.

The man that had the bird was a type A personality, very masculine/dominant type of guy, and he told me that when the bird bites, he would "show the bird who is the boss" and flick the bird in the beak every time he bit, by snapping his two fingers on it. I didn't like that very much. I don't believe in negative reinforcement for birds. I think they should have positive reinforcement and I don't believe in causing pain to the bird when it does something wrong. I can't imagine flicking a bird hard in the beak with your fingers is pleasant for the creature. The bird tried to bite me, so he took the bird away from me, and flicked him really hard in the beak, and that upset me. The bird seemed to tolerate my husband much more.

Then, I noticed it was in a cage about 2.5 feet wide, by 3 feet tall, so a bit too small IMHO. He said the bird was also molting, but he was missing so many feathers, that a lot of grey down was showing all over his chest, and neck. I know Ekkies molt, but is that molting or feather picking???

The bird only liked that man, and not his wife, who seemed to be a very passive and quiet lady. She was nice, but the man was definitely an alpha male type guy. He told me that Ekkies are only one person birds so that's why the bird only liked him, and not anyone else in the family. His wife was too afraid of the bird to handle him. The man would hardly let us touch the bird too, and did all sorts of hugs, tricks and goofy things with him, and they would play kissy beak. They said that they had to get rid of the bird because the 13 year old dog was stressed by him. They only had the bird for six months. The bird was kept in the basement, no natural light. He was on Ekkie pellets and has some raw veggies in his bowl.

I just walked away from that situation with a really bad feeling there. What do you think? I'm an overly skeptical person, so again, please tell me your feelings. They said they had an umbrella cockatoo that once bit the man, and he kicked the bird across the room. That really upset me, but I couldn't say anything.
 
I'd say, go get him! If he's only had him for a few months, I believe that he could be trained and rehabilitated if you're willing to take the time to do so..

The bird is obviously stressed, and yes, it certainly sounds like feather plucking to me.

He needs to be rescued and given some lovin'. Just my 2 cents!
 
Well, the bird is 7 years old, and the man told me he was aggressive when he met him too, so I think it's been 7 years of "who knows what" that has happened to him. The previous owner lives near by, but she doesn't want him back either.

For some odd reason, the bird is very very attached to the man, who is very dominant and aggressive with him, and doesn't like the passive wife. Why???
 

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