So you bought an unweaned baby...

Dopey

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So, frustrated. She acted like she didn't want formula last night or this morning. She took it after a while but let me tell you...it was slow.

She eats like my dad. Tasting every little bit that goes over the tongue. :D

Last night she MAYBE ate 15 cc. She was clearly done...not interested...beak CLOSED and turned away. This morning she started eating after some coaxing. Again, not much but maybe 30 cc. It's hard to tell how much she really gets in her because by the time we are done she has formula down the front and sides of her and my clothes are splattered with it. I feed her until she shuts her mouth and turns away and crop is rounded.

This morning the cries are only one at a time. Earlier this week it was two cries at a time. I don't think she is getting weaker. She is still quite feisty and is running up and down my arm.

She eats about half of the veggies that I give her (I give her about a cup).

I know she wasn't fed at the bird store with a spoon but should I try that?
 
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SilverSage

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You can try it. Also don’t be too frustrated; at this point the feeding is more for her emotional stability than her physical needs. You are doing GREAT. Feed her what she will take, just like you are doing, and experiment with new fresh foods as much as possible.


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Dopey

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She isn't fond of carrots. She loves the cabbage and broccoli mix - or at least she finished that. Wasn't too fond of peas either.

Thanks again for your help.
 

Dopey

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THANK YOU for starting/writing this VERY IMPORTANT thread! I sincerely hope this will save the lives of some hapless chicks who end up in inexperienced hands (or even better, stop someone from considering an unweaned chick altogether). You are a shining example of a GOOD breeder, the kind people SHOULD be getting birds from.

I hope this saves some lives too. I know of two ekkies that have died since December. One them died because it was starved. From what the owner told me about the other one...it was the same thing.
 

Cardinal

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Currently I have none, but I have the capacity to adopt a minimum and maximum of two budgies - preferably a bonded pair or two males.
- It is NOT ETHICAL! Some people live in countries where the only way to get a parrot is to buy an unweaned baby or a poached bird, or worse; an unweaned poached baby. However, the majority of my readers live in places like the United States, Canada, and Australia. For those people with ACCESS to ethically and lovingly raised parrots to KNOWINGLY CHOOSE TO PAY SOMEONE TO TORTURE PARROTS TO DEATH (yes, that’s what selling unweaned babies to inexperienced people amounts to) is completely inexcusable. .


Even though the selling of any native parrot , babies or adults is banned by Indian law , it keeps happening under cover. The Alexandrine parakeet in particular has greatly declined because of this.

The situation is worse in Pakistan, where they are traded openly, suggesting that there is no law to protect the birds.

People should be very sensitive to this issue and not buy poached parrots- babies or adults, as Parrots play a valuable role in natural ecosystems.

:blue::red:
 

Dopey

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Friday night she was not interested in eating formula nor Saturday. Sunday morning she wasn't interested in the formula. Sunday night and this morning she ate the formula like a little piggy. I just never know. The male that is four months older is just eating formula because it is offered...and sometimes not even then.
 
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SilverSage

SilverSage

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Sounds like both are on their way to weaning :)


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Dopey

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She is still doing the crying. I've learned...she isn't hungry now. She may have been but I have found out that now she just wants to be with me or another bird. If I put her in the male's cage she doesn't cry. Move her back to her cage after a couple of hours...she cries. The TV does not quiet her. My voice does some times.

I still give her formula but she eats plenty of veggies during the day and pulverizes her pellets. What veggies she hasn't eaten she has chomped to just tiny pieces.

Even though I got/get great information on here I continued to research and seek advice from Eclectus specific web sites. I even found OLD threads on this forum by Googling that helped me.

[Moderators: if this posting is not appropriate for this thread please delete it.]
 
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SilverSage

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Glad to hear she is doing well! Eckies are such a touchy species, especially as babies. Just out of curiosity, what sub-species is she?


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GaleriaGila

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I'm so grateful for this thread. I keep the link on hand for any excuse to re-post it. It's just a tour-de-force. Thank you, Silver Sage (Dani), thank you!
 

Anansi

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She is still doing the crying. I've learned...she isn't hungry now. She may have been but I have found out that now she just wants to be with me or another bird. If I put her in the male's cage she doesn't cry. Move her back to her cage after a couple of hours...she cries. The TV does not quiet her. My voice does some times...

Mary-Lynne, just so you know in case it applies here, ekkies are rather notorious for going through a VERY noisy phase around the time of weaning/fledging that can last for several months. Kind of a loud honking sound. When Bixby went through it, I often wondered if he was hungry as well. They do eventually outgrow it, as he did, though you have to remain mindful not to do anything to reinforce it into a more permanent habit.
 

Dopey

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I update so that others may know that it takes a LONG time and patience. Well, I would have given up if it hadn't been for this thread and the help that I received. I would have forced weaned her and just put up with the crying. Thanks for the encouragement everyone.

Until today every morning Lucy was crying before I uncovered her cage. She is 6 1/2 months old. She cried anytime I was in the apartment. Even if I had her out of her cage and was trying to cuddle her or just let her play. The only time she didn't cry was when she was asleep or filling her mouth and as soon as she swallowed she was crying.

TODAY I woke up and I didn't hear the crying. It scared me. I thought she was dead. As is my standard practice I fed my cat and dog and went back to bed for an hour. Still no crying but I wasn't going to check either. This is what I want - quiet when covered. Thinking that maybe my hearing was bad today I even put my hearing aid in and still no crying. I even took care of the macaws and as soon as she heard the water running...the crying started. I called to her and told her she was fine. The crying lessoned.

I eventually had everyone watered, fed, and played with those that wanted to and then I fixed her formula and fed her. Still crying. She walked away from the food but still cried. And then - quiet. She was eating her veggies. She pulverizes her veggies. There was no more crying this morning.

She is taking less of the formula and actually turns away from it.
 

Anansi

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Great to see that she seems to be turning a corner! Yeah, Laura (Labell. Jolly's former parront) tells me that Jolly actually took a little over 7 months to completely wean. Some ekkies take a good long while. But it's worth it. Jolly is the sweetest, gentlest bird I've ever had... or even met. Abundance weaning is definitely the way to go. It does make a difference.
 

Dopey

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Great to see that she seems to be turning a corner! Yeah, Laura (Labell. Jolly's former parront) tells me that Jolly actually took a little over 7 months to completely wean. Some ekkies take a good long while. But it's worth it. Jolly is the sweetest, gentlest bird I've ever had... or even met. Abundance weaning is definitely the way to go. It does make a difference.

You don't hear those stories when you are purchasing your bird.
 

Anansi

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Great to see that she seems to be turning a corner! Yeah, Laura (Labell. Jolly's former parront) tells me that Jolly actually took a little over 7 months to completely wean. Some ekkies take a good long while. But it's worth it. Jolly is the sweetest, gentlest bird I've ever had... or even met. Abundance weaning is definitely the way to go. It does make a difference.

You don't hear those stories when you are purchasing your bird.

So true! You hear quite the opposite, actually. "Oh, they're ready to be weaned by 3 months! If they don't do it on their own, it's time to force them." In truth, though, that's nothing more than a financial consideration. It's just cheaper for a breeder/pet store to feed solid foods than formula. Less time-consuming as well.
 

imemi

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I Know I'm late to the party but THANKS.
My Eckie isn't 100% weaned, I live up the road from his breeder, but he also had a carer before me. His carer was feeding him 5 times a day and once at night, he was taking about 30ml. I've had him for nearly 24 hours. He's 10 weeks on the 22nd and tries a lot of foods, likes some, dislikes others, plays with his seed and throws it everywhere.
But he won't take 30ml from me. I get about 15 - 20 into him and then he refuses. I thought it was heat so I was keeping it heated (hot cup of water as suggested by his carer), I thought I might have burnt him, I thought he might have a crop problem but he's emptying it fine. We are going in for a health check with my avian vet shortly (They're calling me back.)
This morning, I was getting a bit worried, he'd had maybe 2 full feeds of his vetafarm neocare since getting him yesterday arvo, he had broccoli, carrot, bit of corn, apple and pumpkin from suggestions from his carer but he doesn't appear to eat much of it. My housemate picks him up, turns him around, feeds him fine...all 30ml in about 20 minutes (It felt way faster. i'd been having so much trouble and being so gentle.) His carer...was left handed, so is my housemate. He likes being syringe fed the other way. We are going to try the spoon and see if we can get him eating front on. It's probably not a big deal but better to keep feeding him and getting it right than to have me struggle for the hours I'm home alone.
We are abundance weaning, his carer wouldn't have it any other way I just didn't know what it was called. She answers all my "Silly" questions. I didn't plan to get an unweaned baby, but now that I've got one...It's time to flood my brain with knowledge and surround myself with people that can help.
 

Dopey

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Please ask any questions you may have. My Ekkie is doing the crying thing again and I know I have given her enough food. She just screams and the rest of us (parrots, dog and cat included) ignore it. If I put more food in her bowl - at night when I get home...she screams. I put treats in her bowl she screams. She now sticks her head in the bowl and screams. THAT is funny because it has a different sound and I know she is just screaming to be screaming.

If something changes...oh, I just remembered I put new boxes in the house last week. Uh oh, I will move those and see if that helps. She also quiets down when the show "Two and a half men" comes on. I wonder if she likes the music...or the male voices. I just noticed that last night so I will have to pay more attention.

The only place she doesn't scream is when she is on the carpeted floor.

Sorry - this got away from the original reason for the post.
 

EllenD

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Okay, first of all, you're not properly keeping the formula between 104 and 110 degrees F at all times while feeding him, and this is the #1 reason that unweaned parrots die while being hand-fed by people who aren't properly educated how to do it. You absolutely must go and buy a candy/cooking thermometer, you can buy them at Walmart for between $10-$20. They are digital, and they have a long, metal probe that you need to keep in the formula at all times while feeding your baby. If the formula is even one degree above 110 F it can burn his crop and cause a wound and infection. If it is even one degree below 104 degrees F, it will absolutely cause his crop to not empty, the formula will basically spoil inside of him, and this is usually the reason that babies die, from crop stasis or a fungal infection in their crops and GI Tracts due to the person simply "heating up" the formula, but not getting it to at least 104 degrees F. This is not optional, and it also will discourage him from not eating it, or eating enough if it's not hot enough...It's a very narrow window of temperature for the formula, but it's the #1 thing you need to ensure you do so you don't kill your bird. You can keep the bowl the formula is in inside another bowl of hot water so that the formula temperature doesn't drop drastically during feeding, however you must ensure that the formula you are feeding him is always betwenn 104-110 degree F.

Secondly, does he have all of his feathers grown-in yet? If not, he should still be living inside of a Brooder that has an ambient temperature around 85 degrees F (if they don't have all their down feathers grown in, then the Brooder must be around 95 degrees F, once all the down feathers are grown-in but the mature, outer feathers are not all in, then the ambient temperature needs to be around 85 degrees F). This again is not at all optional, as the end-result is the same as when the formula temperature is below 104 degrees F; his body cannot properly digest the formula if he's not being kept at the proper ambient temperature, and so the formula just sits inside him and spoils, causing crop stasis and fungal infection. If you don't have a proper Brooder, then you must make one out of a large enough cardboard box or glass aquarium. You must have some type of ambient thermometer located in the back half of the box/aquarium, as the back half will be the "warm" end of the makeshift Brooder. You do this by covering the back half of the box or aquarium with a blanket or towel, and then setting the back half of the box/aquarium on top of an electric heating pad that has an adjustable temperature. (A cardboard box that is large enough works best, as the heat from the heating pad underneath the back-half of the box will penetrate through the cardboard better than an aquarium). So you'll have the back half of the box on a heating pad, and the back-half of the box covered, with the front half uncovered and not on the heating pad. You should use some type of bedding in the entire bottom of the box, as he needs this to prevent the development of splay-leg, and to help to hold his heat in. Simple pine bedding works fine, or better, the paper, "Care-Free/Fresh" bedding you can buy at any Walmart or pet shop is great. Then place some type of ambient or outdoor thermometer in the back half of the box so that you can monitor the temperature and ensure that it is always between 80-85 degrees F. This is the only way to ensure that his body will properly digest his formula.

Other than these two huge issues, that need corrected immediately, you do realize that the older he gets, and the more solid food he eats, the less formula he will eat, right? You should have a very rigid, set feeding schedule based on his age, that changes every week...At his age he should always have a dish of seeds in his Brooder, a dish of fresh veggies/fruits in his Brooder, and actually millet-sprays are probably the best thing to get him started with for eating seeds. He does not need to be fed during the night at his age, he can go 6-8 hours overnight without eating. He should be getting a formula feeding once every 3-4 hours at his age...Now his crop should ALMOST EMPTY between each daytime feeding, but not completely empty. His crop only needs to completely empty once every 24 hours, and that will be overnight. So between his last feeding at night and his first morning feeding his crop will completely empty. Between his daily feedings, his crop should almost be empty...However, if his crop isn't almost empty between daytime feedings, or isn't emptying at all, then this is most likely due to the temperature of his formula being too cool, his ambient temperature being too low, or the formula being too thick.

When you're feeding him, be sure that you are facing him, him in front of you, and you are going into his beak with the syringe on HIS LEFT SIDE OF THE BEAK (your right side if you're facing him), and then you want the tip of the syringe to go OVER HIS TONGUE, and be aimed at a diagonal, across his tongue and pointed at HIS RIGHT SIDE OF THE BACK OF HIS THROAT (your left side if you're facing him). The entrance to his crop is located on the right side of the back of his throat (his right if you're facing him), so that's where you're aiming the syringe.

Never, ever try to force any formula, not ever. If his "feeding-response" stops, then you stop! Otherwise you'll aspirate him. When he's decided he's had enough formula, gently feel his crop. This is a better gauge than looking at a number on the syringe; his crop should be nice and round, like a balloon, but have just a little give to it. It should never be so full that it's tight with no give. The more solid food he eats, the less formula he will eat, and each week you should gradually be reducing the number of formula feedings and the amount in each feeding, OR RATHER HE WILL BE GRADUALLY DOING THIS HIMSELF...This is called "Abundance-Weaning", and it's what you want to have happen. This is why you want to always, at all times, have solid food like seeds, pellets, fresh veggies and fruit, millet sprays, etc. in with him. He will gradually wean himself, not you weaning him...You will not reduce his formula, he will.
 

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