Some advice please

[Heisenburd]

Hello all!

This is a wee complicated, but I'm hoping you guys can help me with a few questions. If this is in the wrong section, please let me know and I will put it in the proper place.

Here's my story;

A few days ago a friend contacted me wanting to know if I wanted a free 'Quaker' with cage. Said it just wasn't able to be cared for in their home. So of course, I agreed. I came to look at him, and it turns out it wasn't a Quaker at all... it was an Eclectus. A male, of course. Hence the 'mistake' in species.

Louie, the Eclectus belonged to my friend's girlfriend. His girlfriend asked if he could help find Louie a home, and thus I was called. When I came to pick up the bird, the girlfriend was at work, but my friend was there and allowed me to take him, and his cage. As we were getting ready to leave, the mother of my friend's girlfriend walks in the house... walks up to me, takes him from me and asks me; "You're the one taking him?" I said; "Yes." (Mind you, I know this woman from past experiences with my job.) She handed me Louie back, nodded, and turned to walk out. She watched my husband loading his cage into the car, and then left the property.

We get Louie home, settled in, and then when I wake up the next day, I have a message from the mother stating Louie was HER bird, and she demands him back. Telling me her daughter and his boyfriend (my friend) had no right to give him away. Well, Louie has been with the daughter for some time. They asked the mother to come get him for over a month and she refused. So they finally found him a home.

Now, after seeing the condition Louie was in (I will post pictures below) and hearing some of the stories of his living conditions, I am not allowing the mother to come get him. She threatened to take me to court. I called a deputy and spoke with him and he told me as long as the daughter was over the age of 17, she could legally give me the bird. BUT, she wasn't there. However, the mother, who is now freaking out, literally handed me the bird, knowing I was taking him... and left. SHE gave him to me. I also found on her facebook page that she was wanting to give him to one of her 'biker' friends. So, I think she realized, after she gave him to me, that maybe she could make money from him? I don't know. But either way, ownership was transferred.

Does she have any legal right to take him back?

I'm just curious as to what everyone's opinions are. Louie was kept in a back room all by himself, his water was in horrible condition, and he has destroyed his own feathers something horrible. I was told they used to sit with him and 'get him high' by blowing marijuana smoke in his face. I was devastated to see how he had been living. Not to mention a small child lived in the home and did NOT treat him right. She was rough, grabbed at him, flung him to the ground... and he would run from her.

He has bonded to me very strongly already. I gave him a bath, and some fresh fruit and he's sunbathing as we speak. I would be so upset knowing he had to go back into those conditions.

Sorry for the long story, guys! Any advice would be appreciated! Here's a picture of Louie last night. He already looks much better after taking a shower with me this morning.

 

[Flboy]

He's yours! Better you puting up with the grief than Louie having to!

 

[Kyoto]

Poor innocent boy He deserves to be with you <3 not that horrible place he came from.

 

[gracebowen]

My thoughts exactly. She gave him to you. She probably does want the money by selling him. If she turns around asking you for money to leave you alone I wouldn't give her any. Just explain to her that be required a lot of care and if anything she owes you for the vet bills.

 

[Minimaker]

Absolutely refuse to speak to her anymore. Let her put her money where her mouth is and hire an attorney. From the sounds of it, she won't do that because it will cost her more than she'd make selling the bird. If she persists, tell her you're calling the SPCA on her and you've documented his condition. If you have any witnesses, tell her you have some and they will back you in court. End all contact and if you get harassing calls, report her to the police and they will deal with her.

 

[Minimaker]

Honestly, she could get get heavy fines at the very least for what they did to that bird if reported to the spca. Maybe even jail time. I'd tell her she wasn't fit to raise a pig let alone keep an eclectus! Bless you for saving him, poor poor thing. Oh my gosh that burns me to see what horrible shape he is in!

 

[SilverSage]

Send her a message or something (not a phone call) stating that she handed you the bird, stated that you were taking him, and that you have witnesses to this. State that if she continues to harass you, you will pursue animal cruelty charges against her as well as harassment and theft charges, since she handed you the bird to take. Then refuse to respond to any messages, calls, etc, unless they come from an attorney or law enforcement or something like that (don't tell her that, just ignore her unless it happens.) take the bird to the vet right now, have blood work etc done, let the vet know that the previous owner is trying to get him back and you need to document his condition. Include his fear of children from abuse, include everything you can. Get a signed statement from the vet saying the condition of he bird, and what kinds of things (like bad lungs from smoke) would lead to these conditions. Even the mere fact that you take the bird to the vet helps to establish ownership. Find a vet who can microchip him, and have it done; he is large enough and in this day and age microchips are basically synonymous with ownership, even when they know who owned him before. Spread your story and be sure the details are consistent. Don't mention the woman's name, just the situation and how she handed you the bird and walked away, etc; get people overwhelmingly in your corner, but don't talk about her trying to get him back, live, act, and talk under the assumption and belief that the bird is yours. Oh, and work on recall training; who owns the bird, the person it shies away from, or the person it comes to when it is called?

 

[Kalidasa]

A little CYA can go a long way...such as taking him out of the equation by saying he died. Just another option. Don't send that poor bird to those conditions/people. I wonder if you tell her his vet bills were a couple of thousand dollars, would she still want to assume responsibility and pay those bills...probably not. Where there's a will, there a way.

 

[Taw5106]

I'm glad you rescued him. It wouldn't hurt to call the ASPCA and brief them of the situation and get advice. Document the conversation of who you spoke to, date and time for future use. If she wants him back and wants to hire an attorney tell her to go for it. Maybe the cost will make a point to her. I agree with the others, stand your ground and take him to an avian and thoroughly checked. The more tangible items and support you have, the stronger your back up is. Please keep us posted.

 

[veimar]

SHE handed you the bird! Just tell her to stop BS-ing you. She probably regretted that she didn't ask $$$ for the bird. I hate such people.

 

[Doublete]

Silver sage is 100% correct.
Go to the vet and document everything.

IF she hires a lawyer you will have documentation which you will then present to the ASPCA and have them investigate her.
She doesn't need to know you have done this just stop responding to her and wait to see if she does something legal. Don't think she will.
Follow silver sages advice though and get him to the vet tomorrow.

 

[jasper19]

i would just ignore the mother, her threats of taking you to court are most likely just bluffs.

One, because the COST, to take you to court, would be more then the cost of the bird. So just ignore and don't even speak to her about any of it.

If she does take you to court, keep well documented the abuse of the bird, the fact you were given the bird. I see no reason for you to give the bird back. She was there when you took it, done deal.

 

[Flboy]

As already said, get to a vet ASAP and document everything!

 

[labell]

Possession is 9/10ths of the law. You were given the bird by adults who owned him at the time. There is nothing in writing only her word, your husband and your friend are witness to her handing you the bird. That is the end of it. I wouldn't respond back in any way.

Thank you for taking him and I wish him a speedy recovery under your care.

Just a side note...The SPCA would frankly LOVE it if the right to own pets were taken from everyone not just parrots but cats and dogs as well. While there can be fines for extreme cruelty to dogs or cats in my experience parrots do not get the same considerations. I have called the sheriffs department a few times throughout my life on parrots kept in deplorable conditions....nothing was done!

If you have a strong stomach look up the "Conklin Farm abuse video" on google. No one did any real jail time for that! These are extreme and images I will never be able to remove from my minds eye and from my heart, consider yourself forewarned.

 

[sonja]

Another vote for going to the vet ASAP. Document his condition, plus get some paperwork that will have your name on it.

 

[Heisenburd]

Thank you everyone for the advice! I am making him a vet appointment first thing in the morning! I have stopped talking to her, but she is trying to scare me with bull**** laws about buying unweaned babies to finish hand-feeding, etc. She's also changing her story to everyone she talks to. This woman is a drama magnet. I am so happy I was able to get Louie out of that situation! I will keep everyone updated on his condition!

 

[labell]

This boy is not a baby so what does she think hand feeding has to do with anything?

 

[Taw5106]

Another excuse to scare and get the bird returned. Ridiculous.

 

[Hawk]

Absolutely refuse to speak to her anymore. Let her put her money where her mouth is and hire an attorney. From the sounds of it, she won't do that because it will cost her more than she'd make selling the bird. If she persists, tell her you're calling the SPCA on her and you've documented his condition. If you have any witnesses, tell her you have some and they will back you in court. End all contact and if you get harassing calls, report her to the police and they will deal with her.

Word of advice here....Do what minimaker suggests, document with photo's the condition of the bird and detailed notes of day of transaction/transfer....for any legal purposes...If push comes to shove, you
have proof.

I went thru a similar incident with an Amazon (vinney) that was in terrible living conditions....I would of up rooted their house and flipped the house upside down if they didn't give me the bird after paying for it....I'm no mr. nice guy when it comes to abuse of birds. I turn into Ndamukong Suh (Line backer from Detroit lions) when I see a bird in bad condition.

 

[Delfin]

Heisenburd
The way I see is that the woman is claiming to be the actual owner not the daughter. Therefore the daughter can't give away the bird because it doesn't belong to her. Did the woman say "are you are taking the bird" or "you can have the bird". This could make a different. Even through she handed the bird back she could say she was scare of you, your husband and friend and felt that the situation could turn ugly and didn't want any trouble.

If this woman can provide evidence that she is the actual owner and not her daughter. You could be force to return the bird. Evidence can be a receipt (proof of purchase)
Unless there is someone here who is giving you advice on the legal aspects of this situation an attorney. I would ignore what is being pass off here, has legal advice and actually go to an attorney and get professional advice has to what the law states for your circumstances. Then and only then can you ask the attorney to send her a letter demanding that she stops harassing you and/or start a case for the ASPCA to prosecute her.

The statement of Possession is 9/10 of the law is false. Mere possession alone does not grant the possessor rights in the property superior to those of the actual owner. This adage “possession is nine tenths of the law” is not a law but a logical rule of force that has been recognized across ages. Proof of ownership or purchase will win hands down each time.

Of course in each country and states there are different laws so by seeing an attorney you will know where you stand legally and I hope that this person will not pursue the matter and you can keep the bird. But I would clarify my position in case it does go to court.

Of course I'm not an attorney and this is just the way I see it.
GET PROFESSIONAL LEGAL ADVICE for the birds sake.

I believe that after 90 days the daughter and boyfriend could claim ownership of the bird. But seeing that it was only a month, this woman may have a legit claim on the ownership