thinking of rehoming

[alleyj]

i've had my caique 4 months and to be honest, it isn't the match i was hoping for. things just aren't going well, and i'm really not enjoying her. i'm looking to rehome her, but i don't know how much time to give her before i start searching.

should i wait a year and see if things improve, or will it be that much harder as she will be even more settled and attached to me?

if i start the process i would do it very carefully, of course i want her to go to a great home - just one that can handle a bird of her maintenance better than i can.

 

[YoYo]

Hi Alleyj before you decide on re-homing could you tell us a bit more about you, your bird and the issue you have with her so we could possibly help.

 

[plumsmum2005]

Yes please give us more info and we will all be pleased to help if we can. How much do you know about Caiques?

 

[Flboy]

Yes, please let's understand what you are struggling with!
In my opinion, caiques are a bit smarter than the average USA citizen!
Are Cosmos and Cha Cha one and the same?

 

[alleyj]

Cosmo and Cha Cha are the same, I bought a male but was given a female by accident.

I've been working with a trainer on problems like screeching, assertiveness, biting my face, attacking my dad, not getting off my shoulder, the works. It's her way or the high way. I try very hard to give her the attention and time she needs but I'm very tired and just don't think I'm the right fit for a bird, at least a parrot. I don't think I was properly educated by the breeder before they sold her to me. I think she would be happier in a home that enjoys her.

 

[Skittys_Daddy]

I don't know much about caiques, but I can say I have a LOT of experience in dealing with a mouthy, tempermental and obnoxious pet.

I've had Skittles for over five years and the first 2 years were hell. The constant screeching, demand for attention, etc wore on me big time.

Personally, I don't think four months is enough time no matter your situation.

Its more about patience and persistence on your part and the part of those who interact with your bird. You get out of it what you put into it. You have to set limits, be persistent and use rewards for good behavior and timeouts for bad. Skittles is now extremely well behaved and obedient (thought he does have his challenges). But I wanted what I got. I wanted a high maintenance pet.

That being said, if you don't have it in you to make that commitment and you are not wanting to put forth that effort, your bird would be better off with someone who had knowledge of that species and is willing to provide for it.

 

[alleyj]

I don't know much about caiques, but I can say I have a LOT of experience in dealing with a mouthy, tempermental and obnoxious pet.

I've had Skittles for over five years and the first 2 years were hell. The constant screeching, demand for attention, etc wore on me big time.

Personally, I don't think four months is enough time no matter your situation.

Its more about patience and persistence on your part and the part of those who interact with your bird. You get out of it what you put into it. You have to set limits, be persistent and use rewards for good behavior and timeouts for bad. Skittles is now extremely well behaved and obedient (thought he does have his challenges). But I wanted what I got. I wanted a high maintenance pet.

That being said, if you don't have it in you to make that commitment and you are not wanting to put forth that effort, your bird would be better off with someone who had knowledge of that species and is willing to provide for it.

What rewards versus time outs did you use? My trainer doesn't like the use of those theories as she states birds don't follow that the same way dogs would. However what she said to do isn't working. When Cha Cha screeches for me from the other room, I specifically don't come out to see her until she's quiet. I want her to learn that mom will actually come with quiet, not noise. When she's bad, I don't know how to give her a time out. She doesn't seem to care either way.

 

[wrench13]

A time out is just that. The bird goes on a t stand or back in its cage for 5 min, and no looking at it at all. It must be immediate when it acts badly, so it associates the time out with the behaviour. I like a t stand, so the bird doesn't think of his cage negatively. Caiques are stubborn little brats, so you have to out stubborn them.

 

[Kiwibird]

What rewards versus time outs did you use? My trainer doesn't like the use of those theories as she states birds don't follow that the same way dogs would. However what she said to do isn't working. When Cha Cha screeches for me from the other room, I specifically don't come out to see her until she's quiet. I want her to learn that mom will actually come with quiet, not noise. When she's bad, I don't know how to give her a time out. She doesn't seem to care either way.

Is this a trainer experienced in working with parrots or primarily with dogs? Also, if what she suggests isn't working, perhaps it's time to try something different.

My amazon responds to 'time outs'. He also has learned over the years he gets a countdown to cease the bad behavior (like you'd give a misbehaving child) before he gets a timeout. I cover his cage with a different colored blanket for time outs than his nighttime cover (so he does not feel he's getting punished when he's put to bed at night) and leave him to cool off for a bit. Time outs last as long as it takes for him to calm down, then the cover is removed, he's given a treat and praise for being calm. Depending on the offense (biting or vicious behavior), he may also get a "step-up drill", where I step him up and down for a while from various places. It reinforces mutual trust and good bird behavior after an aggression incident. That's how I handle my bird. He's not allowed to misbehave and we've found it very effective to have appropriate "consequences".

Edit: Wanted to ask, do you reinforce any of Cha Cha's positive noises? You know, sounds she makes that you find amusing, pleasant or in general aren't bothersome? Could be as simple as whistling back or telling her "aren't you a pretty bird over there". Part of training a bird not to screech is to teach them what noises they can make that will get them the attention they want or simply are accepted by the "flock" as ok to use to express themselves vocally. Our amazon very very rarely screeches anymore but does make a variety of "nice noises" and we always respond with attention and/or make a low-volume noise back so he continues making those noises we enjoy or don't mind.

 

[Skittys_Daddy]

@alleyj

The thing with training any animal is that there is no 'one set of rules'. Not every method will work with all animals. If the method isn't working, that says it right there. It's time to try something else.

Some say timeouts don't work because the bird doesn't know why. Personally, I disagree. In my experience, birds are a LOT smarter than we think and love to test boundaries. Timeouts worked wonders with Skittles. I bought him a 'timeout cage'.

First thing I would due is determine WHY he was screeching. If it wasn't because he needed something (food,water,bath) but rather just acting out, thats when the timeouts came into play. When he would start to misbehave (in terms of excessive vocalization), I'd give him an initial warning. To start off, he had three chances. On the third time, he'd go into his cage for a timeout. If he continued to act out (while in his cage), I'd cover him up. If he still continued, I'd put him in a dark room for 5-10 minutes (until he calmed down). I would take him back out as soon as he calmed down. If he started up again, I would immediately put him back in a timeout.

With regard to biting or over-aggression. I give Skittles warnings on bites (he is usually responsive to the command "no biting") but if he wasn't, I would do a timeout. With regard to the over-agression etc, you gotta go directly with timeouts. As soon as they are doing that, you put them back in their cage.

Some may disagree with my methods, or the manner in which I practiced them but they worked wonders for me and Skitty. Note, he doesn't have a timeout cage anymore and I cant remember the last time I had to give him one (its been months, if not several years). That's not to say I haven't had to put him in his cage for misbehaving from time to time, but he no longer needs a timeout cage.

I think him having a 'timeout' cage was one of the biggest factors in his success. It was used primarily for that purpose. Not for vet trips, not for outings and not for sleeping. ONLY for timeouts. That way he knew what it was for.

Truth is, some suggestions people have made would not have worked with Skittles and some of my suggestions may not work with others. You have to find what works with your bird by trying different methods.

Ultimately, the biggest factor in whether a training succeeds or fails falls on patience and persistence. You HAVE to set limits and boundaries and you HAVE to be 100% persistent with them. I cannot stress that enough. They will test those boundaries, even after training them. Skittles does this, he tests his boundaries.

Now, as for the positive parts. Parrots love attention and love positive reinforcement. Use cutesy words and praise your parrot when he is behaving. Even if you are not in the process of training him. If he is just going about his day and behaving, praise him. I do this with Skittles and I give him treats throughout the day. He doesn't get them if he is misbehaving and he loves his treats!

Again, persistence, patience, boundaries and limits.

 

[MonicaMc]

I think you need a new trainer.


Have you heard of Barbara Heidenreich? Lara Joseph? Susan Friedman? Hillary Hankey?



I have recently discovered a new site that, from the limited information I've looked at already, also appears to be a great place to learn!

Project Parrot

It does have links to a blog with some great information in it, however, unfortunately, the links are now dead.... but the blog can still be found with the information in it! So here it is!

https://blog.phoenixlanding.org/

 

[Skittys_Daddy]

I'd also suggest making note of when these behaviors occur and what is going on at the time.

For example, if Skittles sees a bug or any object he sees as a threat he will fly over to me and shake my shirt and bite me hard (not breaking skin, but hard enough). I don't discipline him for that because I know why he is doing it, instinct. Instead I either reassure him it's okay (which usually works) but in the event it doesn't, I remove or hide the threat.

 

[alleyj]

What rewards versus time outs did you use? My trainer doesn't like the use of those theories as she states birds don't follow that the same way dogs would. However what she said to do isn't working. When Cha Cha screeches for me from the other room, I specifically don't come out to see her until she's quiet. I want her to learn that mom will actually come with quiet, not noise. When she's bad, I don't know how to give her a time out. She doesn't seem to care either way.

Is this a trainer experienced in working with parrots or primarily with dogs? Also, if what she suggests isn't working, perhaps it's time to try something different.

My amazon responds to 'time outs'. He also has learned over the years he gets a countdown to cease the bad behavior (like you'd give a misbehaving child) before he gets a timeout. I cover his cage with a different colored blanket for time outs than his nighttime cover (so he does not feel he's getting punished when he's put to bed at night) and leave him to cool off for a bit. Time outs last as long as it takes for him to calm down, then the cover is removed, he's given a treat and praise for being calm. Depending on the offense (biting or vicious behavior), he may also get a "step-up drill", where I step him up and down for a while from various places. It reinforces mutual trust and good bird behavior after an aggression incident. That's how I handle my bird. He's not allowed to misbehave and we've found it very effective to have appropriate "consequences".

Edit: Wanted to ask, do you reinforce any of Cha Cha's positive noises? You know, sounds she makes that you find amusing, pleasant or in general aren't bothersome? Could be as simple as whistling back or telling her "aren't you a pretty bird over there". Part of training a bird not to screech is to teach them what noises they can make that will get them the attention they want or simply are accepted by the "flock" as ok to use to express themselves vocally. Our amazon very very rarely screeches anymore but does make a variety of "nice noises" and we always respond with attention and/or make a low-volume noise back so he continues making those noises we enjoy or don't mind.

She is a trainer specifically for birds.

Yes I've been trying with clicking noises and she really likes them and has picked them up well. I've also been leaving the TV on for her when I leave the house, not sure if that's helping at all or anything. She just really seems to get worked up when I leave the room. I could try the different blankets...she just screams when I leave the room, or if she's up before me in the morning, whether she's in her cage or out. I live in a condo and have neighbors, and was assured by the breeder that Caiques cannot be heard from a different room. I'm just getting stressed!

 

[alleyj]

I'd also suggest making note of when these behaviors occur and what is going on at the time.

For example, if Skittles sees a bug or any object he sees as a threat he will fly over to me and shake my shirt and bite me hard (not breaking skin, but hard enough). I don't discipline him for that because I know why he is doing it, instinct. Instead I either reassure him it's okay (which usually works) but in the event it doesn't, I remove or hide the threat.

I know when she's spooked by something and I never mind that. She seems to screech when she hears me in the morning getting ready and I'm not in her eyesight, or if I come home, give her a quick hello and then leave the room to get changed the screaming starts again. I've started leaving the TV on for her when I'm gone so maybe it won't be such a drastic change, company vs no company? She has plenty of toys she likes a lot.

 

[alleyj]

I think you need a new trainer.


Have you heard of Barbara Heidenreich? Lara Joseph? Susan Friedman? Hillary Hankey?



I have recently discovered a new site that, from the limited information I've looked at already, also appears to be a great place to learn!

Project Parrot

It does have links to a blog with some great information in it, however, unfortunately, the links are now dead.... but the blog can still be found with the information in it! So here it is!

https://blog.phoenixlanding.org/

Have you worked with any of these trainers personally? I'm using Jamie Whittaker over phone consults.

I will look into the sites, thank you!

 

[alleyj]

@alleyj

The thing with training any animal is that there is no 'one set of rules'. Not every method will work with all animals. If the method isn't working, that says it right there. It's time to try something else.

Some say timeouts don't work because the bird doesn't know why. Personally, I disagree. In my experience, birds are a LOT smarter than we think and love to test boundaries. Timeouts worked wonders with Skittles. I bought him a 'timeout cage'.

First thing I would due is determine WHY he was screeching. If it wasn't because he needed something (food,water,bath) but rather just acting out, thats when the timeouts came into play. When he would start to misbehave (in terms of excessive vocalization), I'd give him an initial warning. To start off, he had three chances. On the third time, he'd go into his cage for a timeout. If he continued to act out (while in his cage), I'd cover him up. If he still continued, I'd put him in a dark room for 5-10 minutes (until he calmed down). I would take him back out as soon as he calmed down. If he started up again, I would immediately put him back in a timeout.

With regard to biting or over-aggression. I give Skittles warnings on bites (he is usually responsive to the command "no biting") but if he wasn't, I would do a timeout. With regard to the over-agression etc, you gotta go directly with timeouts. As soon as they are doing that, you put them back in their cage.

Some may disagree with my methods, or the manner in which I practiced them but they worked wonders for me and Skitty. Note, he doesn't have a timeout cage anymore and I cant remember the last time I had to give him one (its been months, if not several years). That's not to say I haven't had to put him in his cage for misbehaving from time to time, but he no longer needs a timeout cage.

I think him having a 'timeout' cage was one of the biggest factors in his success. It was used primarily for that purpose. Not for vet trips, not for outings and not for sleeping. ONLY for timeouts. That way he knew what it was for.

Truth is, some suggestions people have made would not have worked with Skittles and some of my suggestions may not work with others. You have to find what works with your bird by trying different methods.

Ultimately, the biggest factor in whether a training succeeds or fails falls on patience and persistence. You HAVE to set limits and boundaries and you HAVE to be 100% persistent with them. I cannot stress that enough. They will test those boundaries, even after training them. Skittles does this, he tests his boundaries.

Now, as for the positive parts. Parrots love attention and love positive reinforcement. Use cutesy words and praise your parrot when he is behaving. Even if you are not in the process of training him. If he is just going about his day and behaving, praise him. I do this with Skittles and I give him treats throughout the day. He doesn't get them if he is misbehaving and he loves his treats!

Again, persistence, patience, boundaries and limits.

I can usually tell when she's hungry or overtired, and the bad behavior usually comes with the energy of a good's night sleep or too much sugar (we had yet another diet revamp). Would you just leave him until the screeching stopped, and then come get him again? If she is screeching from the other room and I get her and put her in a time out cage, would this be a reward for the behavior as she got me to come in the room?

 

[MonicaMc]

I'm not familiar with Jamie Whittaker, but she has taken Susan Friedman's courses. After meeting someone who has taken several clicker training classes and behavior courses, I would say that doesn't mean much.... they can take the classes all they want, but the information will *never* "click". They just don't "get it". I mean, they *think* they are using positive reinforcement training, or clicker training, but they aren't. They're going about it all wrong. I've seen it first hand, and personally find it very painful.


Have I worked with any of these trainers at all???? No. However, I have gone to a behavior class held by Lara Joseph, and a week later, another held by Barbara Heidenreich. Funny thing is, I've known Lara since she got into birds. Since the first time she walked into a pet store to buy a pooper scooper for her dog, and walked out with a "white cockatiel". Well, that "white cockatiel" was actually a cockatoo. I remember her helping an avian vet, buying stainless steel cages for her birds, then making bird toys and selling them. I've known her before she was an animal behaviorist. She started out with some of the most difficult species to keep (cockatoo, greenwing macaw, eclectus...) due to size, noise and diet. To see wealth of knowledge she has gained since then is amazing! And now? Well, I'd be happy to be a fly on the wall of her indoor aviary!!! It's absolutely breathtaking!!!!



From what I'm reading, your caique may be too happy to see you, and possibly too dependent on you.


Any way to allow her to move through your home with you a little easier? She doesn't have to be on you, just same room. And perhaps encouraging her to play more independently?