Unruly GCC

[ZoeS]

That is exactly what I said. Excuse me, I used the term "flick" instead of roll, but it's the exact same thing. I'm not flinging him across the room! I'm rolling or "flicking" my wrist/arm.

I think (correct me if I'm wrong) the difference here Katherine is that your bird is ending up on the floor ('we "flick" or "shake" him to the floor'), whereas dishgal's bird stays on her arm but loses his balance for a moment. Although you are not pitching him across the room violently, there is still a risk he could fall wrong or fail to glide and really hurt himself, and also lose trust in your arm's ability to be a perch.

 

[Spiritbird]

I second that a bird should not be flicked or shaken to the floor. Whatever happened to positive reinforcement?

 

[dishgal1]

Oh I don't roll my arm that hard. Just a very slight roll and he lets go of the bite. He is afraid of falling I guess. He has never even come close to falling. I just say No, and barely roll the arm or wrist wherever he might be. I would never want him to actually fall. I would be willing to take another bite from him than make him fall.

 

[ZoeS]

Oh I don't roll my arm that hard. Just a very slight roll and he lets go of the bite. He is afraid of falling I guess. He has never even come close to falling. I just say No, and barely roll the arm or wrist wherever he might be. I would never want him to actually fall. I would be willing to take another bite from him than make him fall.

Sorry, I meant Katherine's bird, not yours. I do exactly what you do and give a little jiggle. Not even close to causing her to fall off... I imagine one would have to shake pretty hard or suddenly to cause a bird to fall off.

 

[CheekyJuno]

That is what I do, roll my arm so he loses balance and bring it back into position....works every time. You know there is no law that says a bird has to like everyone in the household. Your boyfriend should just not try to interact or force himself into the situation. Eventually, she may get used to him and want to be near him. Then again maybe not. The boyfriend is a non issue at this point. I certainly wouldn't rehome her for your boyfriends sake, you know from past experience that can be temporary as well. Juno will be your loyal companion for the rest of her life.

I would never rehome her for his sake. It would be for her own. See, if they can't learn to get along then she can't be out of her cage when he's around which isn't fair to her. But I've been through a lot with her and it would be an absolute last resort. And I don't think it will ever come to that. It gets frustrating sometimes. It's good to take a step back and reanalyze the situation and figure out what I'm doing wrong. Everyone here has been very helpful. I think with this advice and continued advice things will improve .

And also, it may not be a law that a bird has to like everyone in the household, but it is a law in my book that he makes an effort with her. She used to adore him before I moved so I think it's only a matter of time before she calms down again.

 

[dishgal1]

Well it may be that he flies off the arm when she rolls her arm. I don't think Katherine deliverately sends him to the floor. I have made jerky movements when he really bites down hard....I mean really hard and my reflexes take over, and he will fly off my hand and sometimes fly to a table or the floor. Then he gives me that look......" what did I do"? LOL
I have heard several people talk about flicking their beak. I would never do that. It is just like a hit..........my baby does better when I look him in the eye and sayNo in a firm voice, then in a very calm voice........"You be a good boy." He listens very intently. Then he just seems to melt.

 

[dishgal1]

Cheekyjuno...........If she liked him once there is a good chance she will again. I think now she is vying for your attention. He should probably not try to make her like him, they are very stubborn....he should talk to her but not try to hold her and maybe he can learn her body language as well. Eventually, she will be nosy enough to want to see what he is doing. Have you tried eating with Juno? Our bird shares our food right off our plates. That might be a good start. He has to be in the middle of everything.

 

[dishgal1]

Most of the advice you have been given is good, but please do not consider, shaking or flicking your Bird to the floor.. this could do her harm! Maybe just calmly take her and put her back in her Cage for 10 minutes or so, until she calms down.

I think you mistake what I call "flicking" for literally shaking the bird to the floor. MANY bird behavioral books actually say that a slight "flick" (a very very small jerk) can help prevent bites because the bird is more focused on maintaining their balance.

Just for clarification, since you seem to think I'm harming my bird.

Katherine, I think you are probably doing the same thing a quick jiggle and your bird flies to the floor. That isn't the same as flinging to the floor. I don't think you are intentionally hurting your bird at all. I think there was just a little confusion over wording. Someone mentioned "jiggle" and that is a better word than I used. Just a misunderstanding of words I think.

 

[friedsoup]

Here goes for the screaming My Bogart learned a screech that is to put fine point on it is brain numbing, seriously I feel my ears start to bleed. ( I got a shiver just typing that) I knew that covering wouldn't work and getting loud just makes them want to one up you so I hit on an idea every time he screeched I did a very monotone whistle one single note to reply to his call but other wise ignored him and low and behold on the second day he repeated the note and I quickly praised him for being such a quick learner and now when he screeches he only does it once or twice then will follow with the monotone whistle which I always answer and tell him good boy I'm glad to report I haven't heard that sound in months. Oh and he learned that screech form another Senegal so I think it's a natural sound for them.

 

[CheekyJuno]

Cheekyjuno...........If she liked him once there is a good chance she will again. I think now she is vying for your attention. He should probably not try to make her like him, they are very stubborn....he should talk to her but not try to hold her and maybe he can learn her body language as well. Eventually, she will be nosy enough to want to see what he is doing. Have you tried eating with Juno? Our bird shares our food right off our plates. That might be a good start. He has to be in the middle of everything.

At night when I am having a snack like fruit or apple sauce (just plain apple sauce of course) I will share, but never from my own dish. I have finally trained her not to climb onto my glass when I trying to drink something. Don't need THAT habit to pop up again

 

[CheekyJuno]

Here goes for the screaming My Bogart learned a screech that is to put fine point on it is brain numbing, seriously I feel my ears start to bleed. ( I got a shiver just typing that) I knew that covering wouldn't work and getting loud just makes them want to one up you so I hit on an idea every time he screeched I did a very monotone whistle one single note to reply to his call but other wise ignored him and low and behold on the second day he repeated the note and I quickly praised him for being such a quick learner and now when he screeches he only does it once or twice then will follow with the monotone whistle which I always answer and tell him good boy I'm glad to report I haven't heard that sound in months. Oh and he learned that screech form another Senegal so I think it's a natural sound for them.

That's a good idea. I do try to respond with a particular whistle. She's starting to learn it, but green cheeks aren't the best at whistling. It usually comes out as a screech if she isn't being really quiet. I have learned that if she says "Hi JuJu" to me and I don't respond then she'll start screaming. So I try to respond whenever she talks to me. I always encourage her talking

 

[KatherineI]

Most of the advice you have been given is good, but please do not consider, shaking or flicking your Bird to the floor.. this could do her harm! Maybe just calmly take her and put her back in her Cage for 10 minutes or so, until she calms down.

I think you mistake what I call "flicking" for literally shaking the bird to the floor. MANY bird behavioral books actually say that a slight "flick" (a very very small jerk) can help prevent bites because the bird is more focused on maintaining their balance.

Just for clarification, since you seem to think I'm harming my bird.

At no time did I ever mention you were harming your Bird!!

I just do not agree with flicking of any type! there are many other ways to overcome this problem, ie, put them down and walk away for a few minutes or put them back in the Cage until they calm down!

If your bird is biting you in such a way that you can necessarily set them down, ie they latch on, there isn't any "set them down and walk away". Trust me, I tried with him. So sometimes, rolling or flicking is the only way to get him to stop and he usually ends up on the floor because he starts flapping his wings. At that point, I turn around and walk away. He is safe, he isn't biting me any longer and we both get a moment to collect ourselves.

And it felt that you were saying I was, when you mentioned harming at the end of your comment.

 

[KatherineI]

That is exactly what I said. Excuse me, I used the term "flick" instead of roll, but it's the exact same thing. I'm not flinging him across the room! I'm rolling or "flicking" my wrist/arm.

I think (correct me if I'm wrong) the difference here Katherine is that your bird is ending up on the floor ('we "flick" or "shake" him to the floor'), whereas dishgal's bird stays on her arm but loses his balance for a moment. Although you are not pitching him across the room violently, there is still a risk he could fall wrong or fail to glide and really hurt himself, and also lose trust in your arm's ability to be a perch.

NO. Absolutely not. He is losing his balance and then flapping his wings and gliding to the floor. That is NOT the same thing and I actually resent the implication. My wording may have been off from what you and I think it means, but I am NOT harming him, nor am I causing him to lose trust. In fact, when I started doing this, things got better.

 

[KatherineI]

Most of the advice you have been given is good, but please do not consider, shaking or flicking your Bird to the floor.. this could do her harm! Maybe just calmly take her and put her back in her Cage for 10 minutes or so, until she calms down.

I think you mistake what I call "flicking" for literally shaking the bird to the floor. MANY bird behavioral books actually say that a slight "flick" (a very very small jerk) can help prevent bites because the bird is more focused on maintaining their balance.

Just for clarification, since you seem to think I'm harming my bird.

Katherine, I think you are probably doing the same thing a quick jiggle and your bird flies to the floor. That isn't the same as flinging to the floor. I don't think you are intentionally hurting your bird at all. I think there was just a little confusion over wording. Someone mentioned "jiggle" and that is a better word than I used. Just a misunderstanding of words I think.

I think that's exactly what happened. I say "flick", you say "roll", but it means the same thing I'm thinking. I'm faaar from flinging him to the floor as many of you are imagining I'm doing. In fact, I showed my Avian Vet exactly what we do when I took him in last because I wanted her opinion on some of his behavioral issues and she said the way I do it is perfectly acceptable. He has the ability when I do this to glide to the floor because to keep his balance he starts flapping his wings, which means he removes his beak from my skin. When he starts flapping, he usually "takes off" on his own volition and because he's clipped, he ends up on the floor, about a foot or so away because he's glided down.

The idea that I was telling someone to do something, or that I myself would do anything, violent to my bird stuns me. I stated not everyone would agree, but at the same time, I never thought anyone would accuse me of being malicious or abusive towards my birds and I feel that that is exactly what has happened.

Good luck CheekyJuno.

 

[dishgal1]

If your bird is biting you in such a way that you can necessarily set them down, ie they latch on, there isn't any "set them down and walk away". Trust me, I tried with him. So sometimes, rolling or flicking is the only way to get him to stop and he usually ends up on the floor because he starts flapping his wings. At that point, I turn around and walk away. He is safe, he isn't biting me any longer and we both get a moment to collect ourselves.
QUOTE]

I totally know what you mean Katherine, Forrest has latched on to me on occasion and he is like a turtle, you can't put him down and it hurts so badly you just react and I might over rotate my arm and he starts flying away, otherwise I don't know how long he would hold on. Has only happened a couple of times and not in a very long time, so hopefully he is past that at least for a while. He is not clipped very well so he usually flies to a table or chair. All birds are different, some worse than others and sometimes there is only so much pain you can stand. YOu are a good Parront and don't forget it.

 

[ZoeS]

NO. Absolutely not. He is losing his balance and then flapping his wings and gliding to the floor. That is NOT the same thing and I actually resent the implication. My wording may have been off from what you and I think it means, but I am NOT harming him, nor am I causing him to lose trust. In fact, when I started doing this, things got better.

I never thought anyone would accuse me of being malicious or abusive towards my birds and I feel that that is exactly what has happened.

Don't resent it, dude. I don't know you, and I'm not the only one who interpreted 'we "flick" or "shake" him to the floor' to mean that you flick or shake him to the floor. I'm glad you don't. But if you did, wouldn't you prefer that someone speak up and tell you that's potentially harmful than keep quiet in case their comment causes resentment?

Don't take it personally, you just worded it badly and people reacted to it. I'm sure we're all happy to know that's not really the case.

 

[Lee_Creature_Girl]

I agree with much of the advice you've received but have to say a couple things based on my own experience. One is that at this point, I wouldn't recommend your SO have anything to do with your little girl. And I most certainly would not suggest leaving him alone in a room to interact with her until he's had experience handling & interacting with birds. Does he even WANT to interact with her or only to please you?

She has been through way too much in her short life time & deserves to be doted upon for a while with just you & get to trust that you're not going to go away or move her ito some unhappy place again before she should be expected to start learning to trust someone else...IMO. And I think maybe you might have an unrealistic expectation of just how long that can take.

My story, as short as I can make it. Angel, my semi-rescue Goffins, turned against me shortly after I brought her home when I moved her cage to the family room & out of the bird room thinking that if she were removed from the vicinity of my other birds & I brought them down one at a time to play with across the room from her for brief periods, she might eventually come to see that they weren't going to harm her & she had nothing to fear since she'd had a bad experience with a Grey in her previous home & was terrified of all other birds.

Instead, she apparently came to see ME as the same as the other birds & became totally terrified of me. It broke my heart. She remained in love with my husband (she'd loved me too during the brief period before this), but my husband is most definitely NOT a bird person & has never had a desire to learn to be one.

It quickly became apparent that this was going to take a very long time to overcome, Angel's fear of me, not Rob's aversion to birds which isn't going to change. And this is how I came to own two Goffins.

I missed that Too interaction & the relationship I'd had with Angel briefly so much that I didn't think I could take seeing her so terrified of me & knowing that it might be years before I won her over again. So I brought home baby girl Audrey & that worked; I was able to have my Too to love on which made it bearable to keep Angel & give her the time it took for her to learn to love & trust me again.

It took more than FIVE YEARS. But she adores me totally know & is an absolute cuddle bug. During that time, I never forced her to interact with me. I never tried to make her step up or touched her in any way. I kept time spent near her to a minimum several times a day since it terrified her so & kept busy when nearby without looking at her or making eye contact but taking softly to her while making bird toys or watching TV for instance. I tied a rope from the top of her cage to the back of my desk chair so that if she ever wanted to approach me, she could. And eventually she did. First it was just putting a foot on the rope without leaving the top of her cage; I could feel the rope move slightly whenever she got on it but never turned around to look at her. This went on for a few years. Two steps forward, & then one step back. Over & over.

Your situation is much less extreme & your little girl sounds more angry & mistrusting than fearful. I wouldn't recommend goint to the extremes I did & avoiding contact, but please do give her whatever time (& patience, no scolding or punishment) it takes. Birds are prey animals. They are victims of predators in the wild. They are hard-wired to be cautious & wary of anything & anyone who has violated their trust & to be reluctant to let down their guard. It's just self-preservation.

But back to your SO, your baby might very well be jealous of him & the time & affection you give him. She may see him as a threat to taking you away. If so, leaving him alone in a room with her could very well worsen that perception & the jealousy & make it impossible for the two of them to ever get along. It really isn't necessary that he have a relationsdhip with her, only that you form a healthy, trusting one with her again.

Boyfriends, girlfriends & even spouses come & go no matter how much we think they won't. Children are forever. And I think we owe it to these precious little feathered lives we've assumed responsibility for to view them in much the same way & keep & protect them unless circumstances beyond our control make it impossible for us to provide them with a physically & emotionally happy & healthy environment.

Just my two cents.