Untrainable parrot, obviously doing something wrong.

[Boniface]

Hi all,

I've got a Senegal Parrot called Patrick. He's just over a year old and we've had him since October 2014. Problem is I'm getting nowhere with training him and he seems to be getting more agressive.

To help explain I will give you as much background as possible.
We live in a smallish flat.
His cage is in the lounge (no other choice)
He won't ever go in his cage without being forced so spends all his time in the lounge on either his perch by the window, on a suction perch attached to the mirror or ontop of the lounge door.
He flies.
We live next to some woods which our house backs on to so he can see trees and wildlife all day everyday.
We work so he's alone between roughly 7-4.30.
We wake him at 6 and got to be about 10.
He's on a diet of pellets and fresh fruit/veg.
He's kinda trained but not very obedient (he rarely does what I tell him to do without some food incentive).
I try to play with him and train him everyday, he's not good at training (not interested) and bites pretty hard all the time when playing.
He tries to steal food all the time when we're eating.
He likes to sleep on the perch on the mirror.

I'm kind of at a loss what to do with him.
I'm sure it's something we're doing wrong.
Any suggestions would be welcome.

 

[SoCalWendy]

You should never force a bird to do anything unless it is an emergancy. So I don't know what you mean by force, but if you want to build trust never force. Birds will go into their cages instinctively when they are hungry/ thirsty, so use food to your advantage. If there is a food he just absolutely loves, withhold it and only use it for training only. When I had my canary (hands off bird) we allowed him to fly around all day. He "loved" green leaf lettuce. If I had to go somewhere, naturally I couldn't catch him, so I would place a nice piece of green leaf inside his cage and walk away. Worked every time. I use him as an example because my current bird is like a Klingon and she is tame.

You will need to start from scratch. Is he clipped? If not - you may want to consider it, or not. Does he have a fav food, most birds love millet. You can get a sprig of it, they are long so you won't get bit. Anytime your bird moves away from you, especially if they do not trust you, you need to respect that body language. So I would start by just sitting next to his cage, and just talk to him. Talk softly and move slow and offer him the millet through the cage. If he just sits there uninterested, that's ok. Don't invade his space. Your goal is to get him to come to you for the treat. You can even end the session by leaving a little bit there so he can get a couple of bites. Always end on a positive note.

He needs to be up with the sun (or close to it) and to bed with the sun. 10:00 is pretty late.

I'd lose the mirror from his cage.

If you clip him, he will become more dependent on you, but if you use food for training and keep him flighted, you can do some recall training and reward him with a treat.

Senegal's are pretty stubborn, so atleast you have one that "IS" food motivated.

 

[Boniface]

Thanks for the feedback but I think I've omitted loads of information I assumed I'd included.

When I say force, I mean put him in the cage and quickly close the door.
He's like a Klingon always wants to sit on my shoulder or whatever and let's me stroke him etc. the issue is he won't listen to me when training and when I offer him a monkey nut (for example) he gets so excited he won't take the nut and bites me instead.

The mirror is in the living room in general so I could take it down or at least remove the perch and toys. Problem is he lands on top of the mirror and chews it.

I'm going to start putting him to bed earlier the issue is he won't go in his cage.
I know what you're saying about he will eventually, but it's been about 4 months and he has barely gone in once (as far as I know).
I've even tried tempting him with Millet.

 

[SoCalWendy]

Thanks for the feedback but I think I've omitted loads of information I assumed I'd included.

When I say force, I mean put him in the cage and quickly close the door.
He's like a Klingon always wants to sit on my shoulder or whatever and let's me stroke him etc. the issue is he won't listen to me when training and when I offer him a monkey nut (for example) he gets so excited he won't take the nut and bites me instead.

The mirror is in the living room in general so I could take it down or at least remove the perch and toys. Problem is he lands on top of the mirror and chews it.

I'm going to start putting him to bed earlier the issue is he won't go in his cage.
I know what you're saying about he will eventually, but it's been about 4 months and he has barely gone in once (as far as I know).
I've even tried tempting him with Millet.

Well try the millet away from his cage and see how he likes it first. What is he absolutely gaga for? Use that but only for training. Don't give it to him unless you are using it from training. Some Senegal's love nutriberries, or a big ol piece of brocolli. Just figure it out, let him see it as you put it inside his cage. Does he have a shelf? Shelves are helpful, so you're not placing the item on the bottom of the cage or putting it inside his food bowl.

Another thing you can do is feed him twice a day Morning / Evening (feed him his dinner when you eat dinner) Remove the food during the day, and then treat him back to his cage. If he is hungry, he is going to go back to his cage. When you offer him something (monkey nut) just put it down and don't touch it. He bites you because he doesn't want you to touch it. Senegal's are weird sometimes, when it comes to food and toys. Sometimes my Senegal would take the food (I know she loves) from me and then throw it on the ground all mad. And GOD FORBID I touch her toys when she was playing with them.

You really need to work within your birds limitations as you build trust. Keep rewarding the good, and ignore the rest. Use the food you know your bird LOVES to get what you want, and be patient. Be glad he's a Klingon, and that he will allow you to scratch his head. He will let you know through body language and biting (ouch) what he doesn't like. You are leaning that the hard way. And by all mean you have to post a picture of your lil guy so we can see him. Please

 

[Kiwibird]

We live in a smallish flat.
This makes no difference to a birds well being or undesirable behavior

His cage is in the lounge (no other choice)
I am assuming the "lounge" is like the living room or where everyone "gathers" a lot? Probably the best place for him to be anyways, birds like to be in the middle of things

He won't ever go in his cage without being forced so spends all his time in the lounge on either his perch by the window, on a suction perch attached to the mirror or ontop of the lounge door.
Few birds want to go back in their cage and prefer being out. This is not abnormal. I would, however, reward him when you put him in so he makes a positive association with "going home".

He flies.
Probably irrelevant to his behavior. Clipping is not typically recommended for adjusting the "attitude" of a MILDLY misbehaved bird like yours and could cause even bigger issues.

We live next to some woods which our house backs on to so he can see trees and wildlife all day everyday.
That's great! Birds like seeing the outside

We work so he's alone between roughly 7-4.30.
What kind of foraging activities do you provide for him during the day? How often do you rotate toys? Do you leave a radio on for him?

We wake him at 6 and got to be about 10.
Not enough sleep IMO. I understand you have a schedule to keep in the AM, so try putting him to bed an hour or 2 earlier. Tired birds are harder to work with, and man they sleep a lot!

He's on a diet of pellets and fresh fruit/veg.
Sounds healthy. Does he eat his fruit and veg well? Just because your providing them doesn't mean he's eating them.

He's kinda trained but not very obedient (he rarely does what I tell him to do without some food incentive).
Lol. Sounds like a parrot... They do tend to be food motivated, so find a treat he likes and only offer it during training so he *really* wants it and can only get it by learning the concept your teaching.

I try to play with him and train him everyday, he's not good at training (not interested) and bites pretty hard all the time when playing.
What method of training are you using? Have you tried other methods? Maybe he doesn't like the method you use. You can also work on bite pressure training for playing, but I'm curious what kind of play do you do where he has the opportunity to bite so frequently? Perhaps playing in a different method would help prevent so many bites

He tries to steal food all the time when we're eating.
Perfectly normal parrot behavior. Meal time is flock time, and one shares with their flock (unless they are rude!). So long as it's not toxic, a nibble here and there will reinforce your bond with him.

He likes to sleep on the perch on the mirror.
They like to sleep in all kinds of weird places. Id the mirror the highest perch able place in his cage? If so, consider hanging it lower and putting a branch as the highest spot (if it concerns you). Parrots tend to like to sleep at the highest spot they can.

 

[Birdman666]

i've got a senegal parrot called patrick. He's just over a year old and we've had him since october 2014. Problem is i'm getting nowhere with training him and he seems to be getting more aggressive.

ALL SENNIES HAVE 'TUDE!
SENNIES CAN BE TERRITORIAL BITERS AS WELL.
IT'S NOT UNHEARD OF AND CERTAINLY NOT OUT OF CHARACTER FOR A SENNIE TO BEHAVE THIS WAY.
THEY'RE ON THE FEISTY SIDE... WHICH IS PART OF WHAT MAKES THEM FUN, AND AT THE SAME TIME PART OF WHAT MAKES THEM AGGRAVATING...

To help explain i will give you as much background as possible.
We live in a smallish flat.
His cage is in the lounge (no other choice)
he won't ever go in his cage without being forced so spends all his time in the lounge on either his perch by the window, on a suction perch attached to the mirror or ontop of the lounge door.
He flies.
We live next to some woods which our house backs on to so he can see trees and wildlife all day everyday.
We work so he's alone between roughly 7-4.30.
We wake him at 6 and got to be about 10.

He's on a diet of pellets and fresh fruit/veg.
He's kinda trained but not very obedient (he rarely does what i tell him to do without some food incentive).

THAT'S "I DON'T WANNA." AND IF YOU DON'T ENFORCE THE RULES, IT'S ALSO "I DON'T HAVE TO. WHATCHA GONNA DO ABOUT IT?!"

i try to play with him and train him everyday, he's not good at training (not interested) and bites pretty hard all the time when playing.

Again, doesn't sound unusual for a sennie...
Communicate when he is using too much bite pressure, but sennie's often get carried away when playing.

He tries to steal food all the time when we're eating.

That's entirely normal.

He likes to sleep on the perch on the mirror.

I'm kind of at a loss what to do with him.
I'm sure it's something we're doing wrong.
Any suggestions would be welcome.

SOUNDS LIKE HE JUST NEEDS A LITTLE MORE DISCIPLINE, AND STRUCTURED INTERACTION.
TRICK TRAINING OFTEN HELPS TONE DOWN THE BAD BEHAVIORS, AND MAKES YOU THE TEACHER.
MAKE IT FUN AND INTERESTING, AND HE'LL WANT TO DO IT.
THE INTERACTION FACTOR WITH YOUR BIRD WILL ALSO INCREASE DRAMATICALLY AS HE LEARNS THIS STUFF.

 

[Taw5106]

My ekkie gets moody when the sun goes down but she know if she is out of her cage and she tries to bite or charge me here comes the towel. This is rare. She puts herself to bed in her cage at sundown so she's rarely out. She doesn't like to be wrapped in the towel so that's something that works for me.

 

[gracebowen]

I know I'm not talking about a sennie but...

My tiel went thru a phase where he wanted NOTHING to do with me. If I had food only he would come over "steal" a bite and run away.

I encouraged the behavior. Shhh don't tell anyone but I even let him steal small very small bites of chips.

I now make it a point to eat bird safe food more often.

Lil bugger knows plastic rattling means food

Now he comes to me just to be with me.

 

[ZephyrFly]

Wendy, Kiwibird and birdman have it nailed.
More structure, more solid routine, a bit more sleep and a more consistant training plan.

Sennies are like a more stubborn, set in their ways conure from the sennie's I've heard about (only have a little conure myself).
When he's done something wrong let him know and stick to it, like if he bites tell him off, give him a dirty look and ignore him for awhile (or put him away) then after 5/10 min go back to play or just hanging out.
My green cheek conure was a pain to put away and was getting worse (only for me though) so he gets treats now for going in his cage for bed, this will take a bit of time but will be well worth it.

AND don't stop doing these things once he's doing the right behaviour, these things aren't just to fix a problem they're routines. If you expect him to behaviour for you, he'll expect something too, that extra scritch for not biting down hard, that seed for him to go in his cage the first try, that can make a lot of difference.

 

[SilverSage]

I was going to comment but kiwibird said almost word for word what I would have. I suggest covering or removing the mirror though and seeing if that makes a difference.

I do want to specify though, you say he doesn't listen and isn't good at training. Don't think of it as training so much as TEACHING.Keep in mind he may actually not understand what you want from him or how to get the treat. That is the most challenging part of training.