We were friends but not now

[aliray]

I have to agree with you Bills birds.

 

[Brodie]

There is so much I want to say.. But I think I might keep my mouth shut on this one.. Let the calmer people deal with it..
I'm sorry but I am so mad. I don't even hit my dog let alone my bird. A reaction would be once, but.. "Again and again" what the...
I'm gonna be quite now..

 

[Thingamagigs]

Firstly, I would like to praise you for seeking guidance in this matter and caring so deeply about your bird that you are able to admit you have done something so horrible.
I hope you can understand why you have so many emotional responses to such a subject. The relationship can be repaired, yes. But this event will have forever changed your bird, not just the relationship between you. May I ask what country you are in? Where you go from here relies heavily on which country you are in and what resources you have at your disposal.

I have to say though, there may be something to others suggestions of anger control. Even children without any experience of animals who are bitten on their first experience with an animal are unlikely to "hit" the animal. Instinct always tells them to brush the animal off or shake their arm/leg.
The only time it is instinctual to "hit" is out of uncontrolled anger. People with uncontrolled anger issues need to be careful about what kind of pet they bring into their home and should always be initially supervised. Pets can be an amazing teacher of patience and tolerance... I wouldn't say that someone with control issues should never have a pet, because I believe it is the best therapy available to such people. I am afraid to say, a pet bird is probably the least appropriate pet for someone with control issues to have.

 

[SandyBee]

There is so much I want to say.. But I think I might keep my mouth shut on this one.. Let the calmer people deal with it..
I'm sorry but I am so mad. I don't even hit my dog let alone my bird. A reaction would be once, but.. "Again and again" what the...
I'm gonna be quite now..

Oh I know there is so much I have wanted to say since I saw this. I am trying to be calm and reasonable, but it ain't easy.
Hitting is never acceptable to any living creature, I've had dogs, cats, reptiles, kids arghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

 

[henpecked]

I sure hope this doesn't" scar" a young bird for life. Hope someone can save this bird from a horrible life. I see no other response from the OP? Do you want some help?

 

[Thingamagigs]

I sure hope this doesn't" scar" a young bird for life. Hope someone can save this bird from a horrible life. I see no other response from the OP? Do you want some help?

I would say he/she has been scared off by so many angered responses. I am pretty certain they understand that what they did was very wrong... they probably even knew the minute it was all over.

My biggest concern is helping them, so the bird can have the best future possible, what ever the owners choice happens to be. There isn't anything to be gained from further criticism or outrage other than venting for our own benefit (which might be best vented to a friend instead).

I am hoping they come back so that we can help to either repair the bond and guide our new forum member to better behaviour .... or help them find an appropriate association/group who can help them find a new loving home for this bird.

I get the feeling this person loves their bird dearly, regardless of what has happened. Because they love their bird so deeply, I am certain that they will understand that what is best for the bird is to move on to a new home where the experiences will be different. This will give him a good chance of recovery and being able to build a new strong, loving relationship.

I would also love to put them in touch with other services in their area that would be able to help the original poster to learn to manage a possible new relationship with a pet.

 

[Kiwibird]

I have been thinking about your situation since I read this question earlier, and noticed you haven't replied back. I hope you weren't scared off by the replies, it just a sensitive subject for a lot of people. I also noticed not one person has admitted themselves they have reacted inappropriately to a bite before, and while perhaps not as aggressively as you did, I think a good amount of parrot owners have slipped up once. I guess I'll throw myself to the wolves and admit there was one time I didn't remain cool and calm when Kiwi bit me. It was when we were first doing step up drills with him without the training glove. Everything was going fine, he wasn't displaying any signs of aggression, then out of the blue he just clamped down on my thumb. By this point, I had received multiple nasty bites from him I saw coming (and was able to prep myself a bit), but this was so sudden and unexpected, I pulled my hand up, he came with me and when he let go he fell to the floor (this was a split second thing). I felt like the worst person in the world, and really had no idea what to do afterwards (didn't want to reward him for biting, but also didn't want to scare him more or damage the trust I had just broke). I calmly put him up, gave us both a minute to cool off, and went right back to what we were doing. It didn't seem to affect him in any way, but from that day forward, I always take a deep breath before picking him up and mentally prep myself to take a bite even if he is being calm and sweet (this was years ago, it's second nature now). I also don't think I'm the only one who's ever made a mistake like that. Point is, you've made a mistake and if you GENUINELY want help to correct it, please don't be scared off. You've admitted you were wrong, now you need to move forward and the best way to do that is to ask the questions you feel you need help with and to never ever react like that again.

 

[Abigal7]

I sure hope this doesn't" scar" a young bird for life. Hope someone can save this bird from a horrible life. I see no other response from the OP? Do you want some help?

I would say he/she has been scared off by so many angered responses. I am pretty certain they understand that what they did was very wrong... they probably even knew the minute it was all over.

My biggest concern is helping them, so the bird can have the best future possible, what ever the owners choice happens to be. There isn't anything to be gained from further criticism or outrage other than venting for our own benefit (which might be best vented to a friend instead).

I am hoping they come back so that we can help to either repair the bond and guide our new forum member to better behaviour .... or help them find an appropriate association/group who can help them find a new loving home for this bird.

I get the feeling this person loves their bird dearly, regardless of what has happened. Because they love their bird so deeply, I am certain that they will understand that what is best for the bird is to move on to a new home where the experiences will be different. This will give him a good chance of recovery and being able to build a new strong, loving relationship.

I would also love to put them in touch with other services in their area that would be able to help the original poster to learn to manage a possible new relationship with a pet.

I agree with you everything you said. I hope the OP is still reading and will respond. I would like to see both her and the bird be helped. Will this changed the bird. Maybe. However, I think if she is willing to work on it the bond can be mended. If the OP needs anger managment or needs to get to the root of stuff bothering her I wish her the best. I made it a mission to not vent or make a angry response. I hope my post did not come across as that.

 

[Abigal7]

I have been thinking about your situation since I read this question earlier, and noticed you haven't replied back. I hope you weren't scared off by the replies, it just a sensitive subject for a lot of people. I also noticed not one person has admitted themselves they have reacted inappropriately to a bite before, and while perhaps not as aggressively as you did, I think a good amount of parrot owners have slipped up once. I guess I'll throw myself to the wolves and admit there was one time I didn't remain cool and calm when Kiwi bit me. It was when we were first doing step up drills with him without the training glove. Everything was going fine, he wasn't displaying any signs of aggression, then out of the blue he just clamped down on my thumb. By this point, I had received multiple nasty bites from him I saw coming (and was able to prep myself a bit), but this was so sudden and unexpected, I pulled my hand up, he came with me and when he let go he fell to the floor (this was a split second thing). I felt like the worst person in the world, and really had no idea what to do afterwards (didn't want to reward him for biting, but also didn't want to scare him more or damage the trust I had just broke). I calmly put him up, gave us both a minute to cool off, and went right back to what we were doing. It didn't seem to affect him in any way, but from that day forward, I always take a deep breath before picking him up and mentally prep myself to take a bite even if he is being calm and sweet (this was years ago, it's second nature now). I also don't think I'm the only one who's ever made a mistake like that. Point is, you've made a mistake and if you GENUINELY want help to correct it, please don't be scared off. You've admitted you were wrong, now you need to move forward and the best way to do that is to ask the questions you feel you need help with and to never ever react like that again.

I guess I will throw myselve to the wolves and admit when I first got my bird I also went through what you did. It was not the first nasty bite but like your case it was unexpected and drew blood. I did not hit the bird but I too pulled my hand up quickly and the bird also let go and fell to the floor. I was sitting down at the time. I think alot of people would be honest and admit they sometimes get frustrated and have to cool off and step away from their bird. It did not harm my bird but I realized if frustrated it is best walk away. I luckily have not had anymore nasty bites for awhile.

 

[sodakat]

I once bonked Rose on the head with the box of Cheerios I was holding as I was handing out pieces to everyone when she bit the crap out of the fat on the back of my arm as I reached across a cage top to treat another bird. I had no plan to do that! She just looked at me and waited for her Cheerio.

 

[henpecked]

Dorra, your welcome to PM if you wish, I'm sure i can help

 

[BillsBirds]

Did we scare him off? Or was this a troll? He certainly got a reaction from us all!

 

[WharfRat]

Did we scare him off? Or was this a troll? He certainly got a reaction from us all!

Why I only did one post and clammed up. Someone joining up and admitting to that made me wonder right off the bat. We'll see.............. or not

 

[MeganMango]

Mango got a hold of my finger when I tried to take a piece of ham away from him. He had stolen it out of my hand, and the whole thing was so fast. He grabbed the ham, I quickly gabbed it back, and he latched on to my finger. If it was just the bite I would have been fine, I ignored it as usual. He didnt just bite though, he started grinding down, really going at it. I yelled and pulled my hand back and he fell to the table, tried to run at me (hes feisty and he loves ham) and fell off the table. Needless to say I felt awful! I also dont let him eat at the table with us. He does eat with us, but he stays on his playstand (much to his dismay). The trick is to learn from mistakes and move on.

 

[Thingamagigs]

Its instinct to pull your hand away when you have been hurt, especially when it's unexpected.
I would say just about everyone at some stage has been through the exact same situation, if not with a bird, with another animal/pet.
The only reason I haven't been through it with a bird, is because I was a huge tom boy as a kid and played with snakes, lizards, turtles, dogs, chickens, geese etc... I learnt very quickly that pulling your hand away makes everything worse for you and the critter LOL Especially with lizards and snakes, pulling away only makes them clamp down harder or coil around your arm further... neither are likely to let go LOL

Mistakes are rarely the end of the world (except for when its fatal :O). There is always something to learn and always a way forward. We all make mistakes with our birds, probably more often than we realise. I was reading an article a little while ago, about how our birds are affected by things we wouldn't expect... and the things we assume would have a huge impact they often seem to deal with just fine.

Mana was screaming a couple of weeks back, almost all day and my poor head couldn't take it anymore. So I broke my usual silence and angrily said "STOP IT!". Well, she loved that word. It took only once and its become a steady part of her vocabulary. She appears to use it in context as well. I was up late last night cleaning in the room she sleeps in, out of the silence I hear "Shhtop it". LOL
Today I had to towel her, because we were having a rental inspection any minute and I couldn't get her back in her cage... which is not usual for her! She normally steps up onto my hand easily. Today she was stepping up and then flying off straight away... which escalated to refusing to step up and then running away and eventually hiding under the TV cabinet hissing and snapping like an angry snake! So I had to throw a pillow cover over her and didn't she scream asthough it was the end of the world!! I thought I had ruined our friendship forever

NOPE! She was huffy and puffy when I released her into her cage, but after the agent went through she was all lovey dovey again. Turns out the agent loves birds and has a galah as well and the whole experience was pointless! LOL She wants to have a play with her next time she does the inspection LOL
At least now I know I need to work on training Mana to accept being toweled in case of emergency.

 

[Dorra]

I have a small flock so I see birds interact. They do occasionally bite each other and it doesn't mean they will never approach one another again. They watch each other and know when it's safe to approach another bird. I think you can win his trust again.

what i understood from your viewpoint is he did that to start playing but in his way.

But, what I'm thinking is also going on, especially from your description of your relationship with him and his movements when you bring him food, is that you have created a situation where he is looking at you as a mate.

He really do, when my wife enter home there is no action, when sees me or even hear my voice, he start moving around and moving his wings telling to go to him.

His head movements when you offer food sound like he may be interested in regurgitating for you.

No, he moves his head up and down telling me he is ready to defend himself if something happened, this action comes when he sees me after the hit happened.

This web site has some great information on living with parrots without confusing them:
RP - Mating

Thanks, i will try to learn from this forum as well

I can see you are very very sorry. I agree with wenz2712 never ever hit a bird! Really never hit any animal, but birds have hollow bones and they can break very easily.

I am really sad for that, specially when i see him aware from me since we were good friends.

Do you know the age of this bird? I wonder if the odd noises and head bobbing could be a begging behavior? As in begging to be fed--not begging you not to hit him.

the age i think is 2 years and more, i am not experience to tell. is possible to send the photo here to tell?

I think he can lose his fear of you, but it might take a long time. You have to take it slow and be patient.

i am trying my best

Just because he looks ok on the outside doesn't mean there is no internal damage...Birds are very fragile and can be hurt very easy...he needs to go to the vet asap to get checked by a professional...also you should have never had him near your face...birds get spooked for unknown reasons and you won't see it coming they can't tell us they are scared they just react...if I ever put either of my birds near my face for any reason i gently hold their beak so i can prevent getting bit...

thanks for the your advice

I'll say it til I'm blue in the face..............If you own a bird you WILL get bit, period!

Ok, got that already

... i hit him with my hand and he tried to defend himself and bite me and again i hit him again and again.

I am currently at a loss for words. I'm afraid if I said something at this point, it wouldn't be very pretty.

i know

I, like Wendy, am speechless. You obviously do not know enough about your bird, or indeed, birds in general, to own one. You have seriously damaged your relationship with this wonderful creature. I hope he is more forgiving than I. You obviously love him, but, MUST get your anger under control. If things like this happen again, (and they may), either of you could seriously hurt the other.

i hope so, yesterday we went outside, spend some time walking eat together and back home.

I believe you are sorry, and maybe have learned the hard way that parrots are definitely NOT an 'easy' pet. They take a lot of work and really a certain amount of experience to relate and understand. And under no circumstance can someone be physically aggressive to a parrot and have a positive outcome.

Birds will bite. And people have emotions regarding the sudden bite. But you need to always remember that at some point a parrot will most definitely bite you, and keep that in your mind that you can never be aggressive with a parrot in any way. They have many predators and it is in their nature to be cautious and remember what scares them. So assuming you are able to work through the bird's fear and build a trusting relationship again, keep that in mind for the future.

For now i would say it is going to take a lot of time and patience to try to build his trust again. And even if you love him, if you think maybe an Amazon is not for you, there are rescues that would rehome him. There are "easier" birds to care for, and Amazons require a certain level of experience, and even life circumstances being a certain way to make them happiest. (They are one of my most favorite animals yet i have never owned one because I am not sure my life circumstance is ideal for having one be fully happy.)

Thanks for your point, i will keep in mind

How old is your amazon?
How long have you had him and from where did you get him?
How long ago did this incident happen? Has he seen a vet or did you check him on your own? If so how if you can't get near him?
These questions are important.

How old is your amazon?
2 years, may be more

How long have you had him and from where did you get him?
7 months, and i got him from his owner

How long ago did this incident happen?
last week

Has he seen a vet or did you check him on your own?
yes, he did not hurt

If so how if you can't get near him?
right now the only thing is i can not touch his head or play with his feather on his head at all, before i raise my hand and he come and put his head in front or under my hand to let me play with his feather.

Time outs work better with parrots. Like everyone else says you should not hit your bird even if you hit out of fear, or if it is reflexes, or out of frustration or anger. Does your bird fear you? If it was real scared it would avoid you and not take food from you. That said you will have to build trust back up. Birds squabble and learn not to hurt each other but that doe not justify the hitting. If the bird bites quickly take it and set it on the floor in a seperate room for a time out. Not only do time outs help the bird it lets you be able to walk away from the situation. I do not know if your bird drawn blood or maybe pinched too hard. Remember your bird will use it's beak to climb and use it to explore things. Like a cat they learn not to put too much pressure down.

thanks for the info

You said the bird doesn't eat anything unless you hand feed him. What has he been eating since you hit him? Is he capable of eating on his own? Has he changed in any way other than with his food? Does he still play with his toys or have problems with his perching? Is he acting normal for a bird other than his fear of you?

What has he been eating since you hit him?
He eats everything i give, he eats normally now, before that, he only eats when i handle it to him

Is he capable of eating on his own?
right now, yes he is.

Does he still play with his toys or have problems with his perching?
Yes, he started playing, before he was sitting in one place all the day

Is he acting normal for a bird other than his fear of you?
No, still the only thing is when i move my hand, he still aware from my hands and he do not let me touch it at all, still he try touch my hand but not normally.

I would say he/she has been scared off by so many angered responses. I am pretty certain they understand that what they did was very wrong

I am not, i came here to get help from experts


My last questions:

- will my bird let me touch and play with as before?
- is there any book to buy and read it to understand my bird better?

and thanks to all who tried to help by any means.

 

[aliray]

Dora there is a very good book that I bought Called PARROTS FOR DUMMIES written by Nikki Moustaki I bought mine used form Amazon . com for a few dollars .It is a 358 page paperback book By an avian care and behavior consultant. Don't be put off by the name A lot of members have and use this book. It covers a lot of information on all aspects of parrot care and behavior and feeding, taming and training, ect and problems and solutions. I highly recommend it. Good Luck

 

[Tosca]

Dorra, I am glad you came back. Everybody makes mistakes and it takes a very good person to admit it. I have had birds a long time, but learn something new all the time by participating in bird forums.

 

[noblemacaw]

Many many years ago I had a cockatiel that was very very tame. I got him as a hand fed baby from a woman I met in the pet building at our state fair. Wonderful lady I ended up becoming friends with.

My cockatiel use to love to ly on my chest with my hand over his back while I rubbed under his crest on that little bald spot. One day while we were relaxing he suddenly ran up my chest and bit my upper lip HARD! My reaction to protect my face resulted in batting him away from my face with my hand. My poor cockatiel went tumbling down onto the floor. It was so instantaneous...Chomp....jerk of my hand up into my face batting him away from me. Lucky for my cockatiel it was not a true hit and he was not injured but the incident did enough damage of trust on both sides.

I learned my cockatiel did this because he was signaling me to go to the nest which is mating behavior. I remember our avian vet telling me a similar story of her cockatiel biting her face to tell her to get back in the cupboard where he has his nest. Once I understood why he bit me in the face I changed behavior with him so not to stimulate mating behavior. Fortunately trust building didn't take long but I did have to engage it and figure out how to perform it. I didn't blame him for no longer being able to trust my hands and I didn't allow him anywhere near my face.

I will never forget the feeling I had after I batted him away from my face. How horrible I felt and immediate concern I had hurt him physically. I was VERY lucky I didn't accidentally injure or kill him. I had felt like I abused him and I was sickened with myself.

I now have a baby RFM that I need to teach how to be gentle and not nip and pinch at me. During these lessons I get pinched, nipped and bitten (applying too much pressure on grabbing) Once Valentino began to bond to me his play became more normal for his species and I learned that they play rough. I use to sport tiny little bruises on my arms and back because of his method of play. It only took me two days for him to understand "gentle" and when I say it he really does back off and check himself. I don't make a very good playmate for him because I don't like rough macaw play and kind of suck as a macaw.

The first time Valentino grabbed my nose and pinched my eyes teared up. He didn't know any better as we were still getting to know each other. I then slowed things down and gave him the opportunity to explore my face and corrected him when he applied too much pressure or took skin into his beak. Valentino learned right away I do not have a macaw face and he has to be gentle. Valentino will sometimes lick my face with that weird long RFM tongue. When Valentino is in play mode no where no how is he even allowed near my face. He is fully flighted and I will do flying exercises to help with the energy levels of a baby RFM.

It will take time but with trust building exercises there is the potential to get your Amazon though this difficult time. With parrots what you put into them you will get back. All bets are off when they become sexually mature. Personalities may change, loyalties and bonds can change and sometimes you will end up with a totally different parrot. A relationship with a parrot is forever evolving and changing. It takes constant work and dedication and rolling with the flow constantly adjusting to help make the relationship better. All my life I have loved birds and I enjoy and love the challenge of keeping my relationships with my parrots the best I can. Positive reinforcement is the best way to work with a parrot with training.

Please keep us updated of how it is going. I hope you are able to repair the damage of your relationship with your amazon and enjoy him.

 

[Peeker]

There isn't really any way to tell the exact age of your bird. I only wondered if it was a baby to try and understand the behavior.

The bird wasn't necessarily trying to play by biting you. There are different reasons why a bird might bite. If he was scared, if he was too excited, even if he was feeling hormonal. They can bite to act dominant or even bite for fun.

If your bird was bonding to you and saw you as it's mate it could bite to warn you away from danger.

Read as much as you can about parrots and about their body language so you can understand what could cause a parrot to bite and be aware of where they are in relation to your face to avoid those really scary bites.