Weaning a baby greenwing

[Cosmographer]

At 4.5 months old, Precious is still eager to take formula and only nibbles occasionally at fruits and vegetables. The trainer told me to feed her 240 ml of formula per day. I divide this up to about 4 feedings per day combined with a training session. But after every feeding, she seems very eager for more so:

1) is 240 ml correct for a greenwing of this age?

2) is feeding her 270 or 300 (overfeeding) detrimental or dangerous? She seems so hungry that I feel like I need to give her a little extra.

3) what is the correct weight range at this age? (She weighs 1kg (2.2 pounds)

Would greatly appreciate any info!

 

[itzjbean]

First read this... lots of things can and will go wrong when attempting to take on a baby that isn't eating on its own yet. Because it still needs formula, you are encountering problems many inexperienced owners of unweaned babies face. (not knowing proper amounts to feed, measuring weight, giving proper weaning foods, etc.)

So you bought an unweaned baby...

As a rule of thumb, your macaw should be getting 10-12% of its weight at each feeding, which is going to depend on when you weigh her. Do you have a gram scale? She should be weighed every day to ensure she's gaining weight. What does she weigh right now? She should be given a variety of foods, not just fruits and veggies but also pellets, seeds, and CHOP -- like beans, sprouts, etc.

 

[Cosmographer]

Yup read that post a few times, and while it's a great overview, it unfortunately does not address my more specific questions.

She's been keeping steady at 1kg for the last 3 days we've had her. Guess I need to figure out how many ml 100 grams is. My scale is not electronic so I'm going to have to count each pip, lol.

On another note, I was thinking it might be too early for nuts and pellets, but since you mention it, I'll add them as well.

 

[itzjbean]

Yup read that post a few times, and while it's a great overview, it unfortunately does not address my more specific questions.

On another note, I was thinking it might be too early for nuts and pellets, but since you mention it, I'll add them as well.

It's a thread we often refer to when someone has questions with their unweaned babies in an attempt to deter them from making the same mistake in the future.

Do you keep track of her weight, my original answer provided you with what you needed to know in regards to how much to feed. Have you been weighing her consistently?

 

[Cosmographer]

I understand that receiving unweaned babies is far from ideal, but I mentioned in a different thread that I didn't have much of a choice. If I ever decide to get another, it will also most likely be unweaned. It's just the way it is here. I'm just lucky the breeder was willing to keep her an extra month, hehe. Thanks for the 10-12% guideline!

 

[Cosmographer]

From what I can find online, at this age, they should only be fed twice a day. And it seems that when they say 10-12%, it's already converted so a 1000 gram bird should get 100-120 ml per feeding. Not 100-120 GRAMS of formula.

So if the above is accurate, Precious should be getting 100-120ml of formula twice per day for a max total of 240ml. I guess that makes sense since that's exactly what the trainer recommended (tho I don't completely trust the trainer).

What has me concerned is that she seems desperate for more during/after and in between feedings. That's why today, I tried to break down 240 ml to 4 times a day. Just to alleviate her hunger a bit. I guess that's not good for her?

 

[Laurasea]

Darn I typed a bunch and battery died,,,

I believe macaws can take up to ten months of age to ween... but I’m not sure
It may seem counterintuitive , but they are actually willing to try more stuff and have confidence with a full crop. To wean by abundance you let the bird decide which feedings to skip, or when to take less st a feeding . Usually the morning feeding and the lady feeding if the day are the last to be skipped.

After the morning feeding, make your own breakfast of let’s say a veggie omelet and share with your bird. Make sure pellets are always available and offer veggies several times a day, both cooked, raw, chunks, and minced. Yiu can also purée some veggies and start mixing in a small amount with the formula, go slowly, and over a few days or a week mix in larger amounts and slightly larger chunks ( maybe cooked and warm mushy...
also your are the flock or parent so you need to eat stuff in front of him act like it’s so yummy and share...
I think offering veggies in a large wide shallow dish like a casserole dish or a a sturdy shallow tub helps them see and explore better, often works when offers outside of the cage, like the flock found this great stuff while out foraging....
before a mud day feeding yiu could offer cooked pasta and cooked veg, or cooked quinoa and veg, then do your feeding, offer different stuff by hand through out the day, yiu can start with yummy stuff like a slice of apple, apple sauce, fresh corn in the cob or diced off, maybe cooked poppy, or a but it seed. Once they get used to taking stuff from yiu, and that you are offering good stuff they get more willing to to try. Yiu want list if different textures and tastes, and shapes. The flock plays a big role in teaching young birds new foods they need to see you eat and share with them . Eat a salad with them hand out slices of radish and lettuce greens, make sprouting and share, cook legumes and share..
keep your hand feeding routines, and let them to decide to refuse or take less when ever they want... if several days in a row they refuse a mid day feeding then yiu can skip that going forward but keep offering the next feeding st the same time...

 

[Laurasea]

We double posted,
They will usually be willing to try new foods after a feeding,
If they want more at a hand feeding give it to them, they are growing and changing rapidly, if he is begging for food later and hasn’t been willing to share and explore food with yiu give him the hand feeding... birds that are at or near or just weaned will regress when taken into a new homes sometimes. You wean by abundance, food is always available, and feeding not skipped or less offered they choose when to take less or when to skip hand feeding.
This is a hugely important time, fir future confidence, and to prevent behavior problems down the road. This is still a baby and he needs to feel comforted and supported and confident his parent will provide feeding if he needs it, and supporting and teaching about new foods

Often at first warm foods are taken better, mash up pellets and add a little warm water and mix with rice and cooked veggies... or with cooked pasta, or oatmeal or scrambled eggs, I hide pellets in everything!

If she is desperate fir more yiu need to give her more, and more feeding during the day yes
Maybe she is in a growth spurt, maybe before sh can home with yiu she was more confident in nibbles of food during they day between feeding. But the stress of new home has her back sliding. That’s why in your other post a baby that is head bobbin need food or attention, she is like a toddler, needs mire right now , needs you to show usually by eating it yourself that this new stuff is good and us food, that her parents and flock are near and support her exploring her wold sbd they she is safe, more contact more teaching her how to play and explore

 

[Laurasea]

In my ornithology thread on page 11-13 I have links on weaning and parrot development stages. I think on page 11 I have one link that gives species specific info from breeders
http://www.parrotforums.com/general...hare-discuss-scientific-articles-parrots.html

https://petcentral.chewy.com/baby-parrot-development-stages/

https://theparrotuniversity.com/arthandfeeding3

http://www.parrot-parrots.com/important-stages-life-parrot.php

 

[Cosmographer]

Thanks for all the great info, everyone. I have been pretending to eat solid foods like raw carrots and corn to encourage her to nibble, but it seems like I should be chopping up food into more of a mash. I'll try that today. Hopefully that will alleviate her hunger between formula feedings.

 

[Laurasea]

A baby parrot’s weaning experience can affect him for the rest of his life. It is up to the hand feeder to make it a pleasant one in which the baby feels safe and secure and builds confidence and independence. Keeping him well fed helps him develop desired traits such as trust and happiness which enable him to be a good companion.

It is important that anyone hand feeding or weaning a baby have an accurate gram scale and a notebook. The baby should be weighed the first thing every morning before any food is fed and his weight recorded. The weight can speak volumes in terms of how baby is doing. It will also let you know if at any time during the weaning process you need to take a step back and start giving him a bit more formula. At this time I always do a quick check of the baby and make a note of anything out of the ordinary. Is he alert and responsive? Do his eyes look bright and shiny? Are his nares clean and dry? How is his posture? Are his feathers ruffed up? Is he breathing normally with no harsh clicking, whistling or raspiness? Do his feet look nice and plump. Is his mouth clean rather than sticky or slimy?

One of the most important things to do when weaning a baby is to keep him well fed. Hungry babies are far too frustrated to try eating on their own. When they are hungry they can only think of how they want that hunger satisfied. When their hunger is well satisfied they are happy, ready to explore and try new things. A full, well fed baby will go over to a crock of food and taste or eat the food, whereas a baby that is hungry might just sit there and cry waiting for someone to come feed him. As babies get a little older I often find that the first thing babies will do after a formula feeding is toddle over to their food bowl and practice their independent eating skills.
( copied from an article I will try and link)

Warm foods are your friend in the beginning I think, like mashed cooked sweet potatoes, sprouts are good to

http://www.exoticpetvet.com/weaning-baby-birds.html

 

[LokisMomma]

Just wanted to share that my macaw is 17 weeks tomorrow, so almost the same age as yours, and he also is going through this wanting to eat most of the day. He starts bobbing sometimes less than an hour after he ate a full feeding, but sometimes not for a few hours. He nibbles on chop and pellets, brown rice and whole wheat pasta, but he will only eat any of these right after eating formula. Once he starts bobbing, only formula will satisfy him. However, on the occasions that he starts bobbing and it’s only been an hour since his last feeding, he seems to want cuddles and attention more so than wanting food. He won’t take the syringe at those times.. he just wants to fly to me and have him cuddle him a while.
Also, just as a comparison, I offer my boy two hand feedings a day, and I feed him as much as he wants at each feeding. Sometimes that’s 60mls, sometimes 120mls. Just depends on his wants and needs. I give it to him until he turns away from the syringe and won’t take any more.

 

[Laurasea]

I think it’s important to remember that an unweaned baby is just that still a baby. They still lots of physical contact, and working and playing with them teaching them about toys and food. It’s a little to soon to expect them to be alone in the cage entering themselves. Just like a human baby or toddler wouldn’t be left alone. Providing support now now will actually help foster confidence and independence later.

Sorry I keep posting, it’s just such a critical time in your birds life. Weaning by abundance, providing social sbd physical contact, activity teaching how to play and interact with toys and enrichment, and foraging sbd exploring food, sets your burd up fir life, and prevents so many behavior issues fir the rest of life...

 

[Cosmographer]

No need to be sorry, this is all great info. I just worry about building over dependency if I give her too much attention. Also, I read about the dangers of overfeeding which makes me think I shouldn't give her as much as she wants.

 

[Laurasea]

I gave you links to about ten different experts that say otherwise.... are you able to follow the links and read the articles????

Where and from what source are you getting information thats opposite ???

Your baby is syringe feed or spoon feed correct? Please tell my it not tube fed?

Causing insecurities about food, when at this stage she is completely dependent on yiu will prolong the weaning and cause behavior issue , like feather plucking as an adult and screaming ,

Not meeting the food needs is called force weaning, which usually just prolongs the weaning process not shorten it. It also linked to feather picking and other behavior problems as an adult..

A baby is a life stage , they are dependent ,
Tge natural order would to have two parents, clutch mates, last years chicks and the flock, they would never be alone., notmeeting the social and physical contact needs of a baby has life long effects on the adult. Often they become feather pluckers!!!

Trying to rush or force weaning, not providing the contact and emotional support to your baby. Effects the structure of their brain , and makes them less cable of dealing with stress, insecurity .. This has been linked in adults who will deal with stress by plucking feathers to get the endorphins.....and self soothe

In addition to all the expert advice from avian veterinarian, breeders, behaviorist, on weaning. I can also provide you links to articles by the above experts on behavior issues in adults that is linked to how they were handled during the weaning process.

It’s critical to support guide and nurture the weaning parrot. This actually leads them to be independent confident adults . If your parrot doesn’t get this foundation, then it’s likely to have began issues like plucking as an adult , and get passed around to many owners in its long life.

If I haven’t convinced you, than at lest I might have reached all the other people who will be reading these posts. You are here and you are posting and looking fir information. I know yiu are wanting to make the right choices to have a happy healthy companion. Please read the links, keep doing your research. I’m sorry their aren’t more macaw owners posting in your thread.

I do not have a macaw because I cannot meet the needs of such a large parrot. But In my career I have worked with them. I have also worked with sever pluckers and self mutilation in parrot rescue. So I’m passionate about trying to help, and trying to prevent that.

Also I don’t think you are doing a horrible job or miss treating or starving your parrot , or leaving it alone in the cage all day or anything like that! Just want to be clear on that


Yiu just had questions , and yiu posted signs that she isn’t eating on her own yet , begging fir more food and a little more attention. She is near weaning age, start of weaning, and at a new home. And since it’s such an important time I wanted to give as much info for best success

 

[Cosmographer]

Yes I've read the articles and have also read articles that warn of over-dependency. Do I have links to them? No. We're not in a courtroom so I have no inclination to dig up again all the info I've read over the past few months.

I'm not sure why you are implying that I'm not giving her enough food or attention. She is getting the proper amount according to every source I've found including confirmation here in these forums. Yes she does seem to want more, but the dangers of overfeeding seem to be just as bad as under feeding. If overfeeding is a problem, that means that birds can also overeat. Therefore wanting to eat more does not seem to be a sign that she should eat more. There is no forced weaning here which you also seem to imply.

Regarding attention and nurturing, you also seem to be scolding me about not giving enough. She would be happy if I spent 24 hours a day with her. Does that mean I should? I don't think so. I agree with the experts that developing independence is an important part of a bird's life at this stage. The question is, how much. If you disagree with that, that's fine. There are many ways to raise a bird properly. But I have already decided that some amount of independence is required based on my research, so the question i have is how much. Debating the premise is a whole 'nother topic, one which could be interesting and enlightening and might possibly change my conclusions, but that should be for another thread.

I can't quite remember if it was you or someone else who implied that they should be fed as much as they want. That seems to jive with your theory that they should also get as much cuddle time as they want. I am of the opinion that you can still provide nutrition and nurturing without giving a baby everything she wants. That's just my opinion based on my research. Again, there is more than one way to successfully raise a parrot, and we all have to decide based on our own experiences, our individual birds, and our research which way is best for us.

Of course one should also keep an open mind to different ideas for additional enlightenment. We can always learn more, so I appreciate your perspective.

 

[LokisMomma]

Hi again I just wanted to clarify on my post when I said that I feed my baby as much as he wants, I meant in that particular feeding. If he takes 60mls or 120mls, I let him decide when to walk away from the syringe. However, I do Not give him formula whenever he decides to beg for it. Sometimes he begs only an hour after eating and I do not offer more at that time. I do believe it’s ok to make him wait until his next feeding time. Also, sometimes it’s not food he wants, but attention, so I do offer that often. I agree, however, that promoting independence is good as well. I spend lots of time with my baby, but he also gets time to spend alone in his cage or on a stand. (Cage if I’m out away from home, stand if I am home with him but not entertaining him at that time). I agree with the notion that the parrot should be allowed to learn how to entertain himself. But I also agree they need plenty of attention, which it sounds like Precious is receiving. You don’t have to spend every minute with your baby or feed them every time they beg (assuming their weight is good and you know they are eating well) in order to raise a happy healthy bird. Just my opinion though, and everyone is entitled to think differently. It all comes down to the specific bird and owner and what works for them.

 

[Laurasea]

I was afraid my posts would be taken wrong. We have so many unweaned babies and people ending up in trouble, part of the effort of my posts are for a wider audience that will read This thread.

My goal is to help. Weaning is such an important time. My mothering instincts kick in when I read of her begging and seeming hungry, and she is still in the beginning stages of learning to feed herself . And I just want to get the info out there.

The asking about the other info you had, was from curiosity, sbd trying to see the source, I can see how that reads as an attacking but it wasn’t how I intended it.,

I’m not implying over feeding or 24/7 contact. Just fully support and prevent anxiety and promote the confidence of having the feedings available fir the bird to turn down.,

I hope you have the best successful with weaning and teaching her about food. Obviously you care and are trying to be the best fir her, yiu even already had a trainer , so I know you will take a thoughtful approach. I look forward to yiu sharing her journey with us. Have you picked out a name yet?

 

[LokisMomma]

Not sure if you are asking OP or myself, but OPs baby girls name is Precious (from his post about bringing her home) My baby boy is Loki, he’s a Catalina, 17 weeks old today!

 

[Cosmographer]

Thanks to everyone for all the advice. She is now starting to eat solids like sweet potato, veggies etc which I mash up and put in her bowl after a formula feeding. It's so exciting to see her eating out of a bowl, haha.

Laurasea, no worries, I understand you're just interested in whats best for our birds, and I always appreciate your advice.