What bird to get?

[Stitchthestitch]

I'm sorry your not getting the answer you want. It's because we are all very passionate about the proper care of the birds. I came here looking for for advice when I was looking for a companion bird and at first I found them a little harsh, but it's only because they want to prevent a situation where a bird is ending up in rescue due incompatibility. And I am greatful for all the advice given because it is given a with the birds care at th for front of each members concern


Are tyour friends doing any research themselves about parrots or are they leaving it to you? Are they aware of the huge commitments and lifestyle changes that are not negotiable? What about training the bird? Or soe ding quality time with it? Are they prepared to find and travel to an avian specialist because a normal vet can't treat birds.

Their prerequisites for a bird are extremely unreasonable

Teils can be very loud as can green cheeks, hell mine has left my ears ringing when he's been on the opposite side of the room when he's on his "soap box" yelling at dandilion fluff floating past the window.


All birds make mess to some degree and unless you take time. To potty train, they will poop every where, the smaller the bird the more frequent they poop.
Your lucky your gcc doesn't fling food. Mine absolutely does.

Any bird can bite draw blood. It's matter of when not if.

Not every bird will be cuddly some are just content to hang out wile others want nothing to do with you. It's down to the individual bird and its not something that can be predicted.

If I may make an observation. I think your friends like the idea of bird, the see you with yours and want that but it seems like they don't want the work,mess. Or noise

 

[Talven]

My friend is going to end up getting a cockatoo at this rate. They are not the type of person to listen to reality and think that they know better. I have been able to convince them for the past 18 months to not get a bird but a few things have changed in their life and now they are keen to get a bird.

They'll happily travel to an avian specialist as they are working as a vet tech at the moment, hence why they think they know better than I do about what is needed.

I don't think I am asking the impossible, I just think we are all at crossed wires here.

I'm not asking for a parrot that doesn't make mess, doesn't bite, is quiet and loves to cuddle. That is outside of the realms of reality as everyone is quick to say.

I am asking for a bird that is low mess FOR A PARROT not one that doesn't make mess at all.

A bird that is low volume FOR A PARROT not a bird that is mute and doesn't make noise.

A bird that doesn't bite too much FOR A PARROT not one that doesn't bite at all.

A bird that likes to hang out with you and allows interaction, using head scratches as example, with in the realms of what A PARROT will tolerate.

Yes I am aware that there in no perfect bird that fits. I do have experience with keeping parrots.

I came here asking for help in finding a bird that will be more suitable than a 'too within that framework trying to find some way to reduce the damage that is coming and maybe find a bird that while not perfect for them may be kept rather than disposed of and all I have gotten is totally unhelpful replies.

Yes I know a bird is not the right pet for them. Pretty sure I mentioned that I have been trying to talk them out of getting one at some point already. No need to keep going over that is there?

Please help me reduce the damage. I can't take on a 'too when she realizes it's too much for her. And that is what will happen. It will be dumped on me.

 

[noodles123]

If it were me, this person would not be my friend at this rate, She sounds terrible. I get your frustration, but why the heck is she not willing to do her own basic research? MYTOOS.COM <--- that website..if she doesn't read it, she is deliberately avoiding.


A cockatiel is the closest you get to a "too" and 100X quieter and less destructive and way less neurotic, but still loud **NOWHERE NEAR A TOO**, messy etc etc BUT STILL LOUD AND MESSY and able to break skin! A tiel and a too can cross- breed!!!! BAHH my brain is exploding with the anxiety of this entire discussion--and I get what you are after, for the sake of the birds, but your friend is not smart enough or motivated enough when she is taking on something more involved than a human child... MAKE HER DO her own research, and if she has and still fees this way, then she is a cocky, arrogant, uneducated jerk! she is the worst parrot owner ever!!! You know, from experience how much research and devotion this takes...I hate her for refusing to learn what is right in front of her finger tips....you are telling her and still, she acts like a sociopath.


A COCKATOO IS LITERALLY THE WORST FREAKING BIRD SHE COULD GET AND IF SHE WON'T LIFT A MANICURED NAIL TO SEE THAT TRUTH ???
It's like saying, which kid is best for a "child molester"...clearly she sees nothing wrong with her mindset, even though her mindset is so tragically damaging.


You cut out cockatiels, but THERE IS NO PERFECT IN THIS SITUATION!! The woman shouldn't have a parrot. PERIOD! THAT IS IT!!! HANDS-DOWN, cockatoos (u2s and m2s) are the MOST re-homed bird in the ENTIRE trade which already is re-circulating animals at far higher rates than the dog/cat/general pet trade..you yourself rehomed a cockatoo....I know your reasons,, but everyone has the same ones...and no parrot meets her needs!


I am so very very very very very ANGRY at her.

 

[Talven]

Ah the problem is places like MYTOOS.COM as hard as that may be to believe. She is currently doing her masters to become a vet. Seeing things like that makes her want to start a rescue. As I don't have a degree my opinion is irrelevant. She knows better because she is going to be a vet. The only reason I have been able to even get her to listen to me about getting a bird is simply my years of experience with keeping them.

I've been suggesting a cockatiel since it's become obvious she is going to get a bird but she wants a bird that is less independent. Honestly I am at a total loss as to what bird would be more suitable than a cockatiel. I'm not aiming for perfect more least unsuitable.

I've gone past the anger and I am now in damage mitigation. This is going to end badly no matter what I do or say but how badly depends on what bird I can convince her is best for her.

As for the child with a chainsaw, probably. Not even going to go there.

 

[noodles123]

She has only seen your birds (in a happy home, with training that you worked for).. She has never had to do it from scratch... Ask her to go to a rescue and see if she's cool putting her kid's 2 cm finger in a cage with one...Then tell her to imagine that flying and attacking...IT DOES HAPPEN!! ALL THE TIME! Also, remind her, that a DVM is terribly uneducated when it comes to birds.. this is arrogance..


She's not a vet and even if she were, a bird owner would be a fool to visit her or any other, as DVMs kill birds often due to their extreme lack of training..Not saying they can't help, but they often harm more than they do unless it is basic, supportive car.e

 

[noodles123]

Tell her to join this site. A DVM is not an avian vet and nothing CLOSE to an avian vet! I have a decent amount of education in veterinary stuff, but I am just another voice...same thing when I tell people about the importance of ABA...I get where you are coming from, but you need to speak up! People with degrees in one area who refuse to hear others are VERY questionable people indeed.

 

[Talven]

Tell her to join this site.

I have tried but she refuses to join. Some excuse about too much contradictory information on the internet. Unless it is from someone with a vet degree it's all irrelevant because I mean what could they possibly know without a degree? This is why I am here and asking for help. I can't prevent the disaster but maybe I can reduce its severity.

 

[Scott]

Gee I'm glad that this forum is not made up of overly judgmental people otherwise it would be a tirade of near abuse.

So I'll try to explain what I am asking in simple and explicit terms so there is no misunderstanding.

I don't think I am asking the impossible, I just think we are all at crossed wires here.

I came here asking for help in finding a bird that will be more suitable than a 'too within that framework trying to find some way to reduce the damage that is coming and maybe find a bird that while not perfect for them may be kept rather than disposed of and all I have gotten is totally unhelpful replies.

Please help me reduce the damage. I can't take on a 'too when she realizes it's too much for her. And that is what will happen. It will be dumped on me.

You've been a member just over two years, shared intractable problems with your birds, received a plethora of advice, now seeking an impossible solution to your friend's regressed needs. Yet we're villains, overly judgmental, recipients of pedantic ire. Three pages of earnest dialog but you're getting "totally unhelpful replies." You seriously think you're not "asking the impossible?" Your friend appears to have juvenile sensibilities, wholly unsuitable as DVM. Honestly, none of us has standing to quench her stratospheric yearnings. If you cannot dissociate yourself from a vampire, your best fallback may be eventual custodianship of her cockatoo victim.

Mytoos may be effective deterrent; if not ask her anew to join this forum.

 

[Cardinal]

My friend is going to end up getting a cockatoo at this rate. They are not the type of person to listen to reality and think that they know better. I have been able to convince them for the past 18 months to not get a bird but a few things have changed in their life and now they are keen to get a bird.

They'll happily travel to an avian specialist as they are working as a vet tech at the moment, hence why they think they know better than I do about what is needed.

I don't think I am asking the impossible, I just think we are all at crossed wires here.

I'm not asking for a parrot that doesn't make mess, doesn't bite, is quiet and loves to cuddle. That is outside of the realms of reality as everyone is quick to say.

I am asking for a bird that is low mess FOR A PARROT not one that doesn't make mess at all.

A bird that is low volume FOR A PARROT not a bird that is mute and doesn't make noise.

A bird that doesn't bite too much FOR A PARROT not one that doesn't bite at all.

A bird that likes to hang out with you and allows interaction, using head scratches as example, with in the realms of what A PARROT will tolerate.

Yes I am aware that there in no perfect bird that fits. I do have experience with keeping parrots.

I came here asking for help in finding a bird that will be more suitable than a 'too within that framework trying to find some way to reduce the damage that is coming and maybe find a bird that while not perfect for them may be kept rather than disposed of and all I have gotten is totally unhelpful replies.

Yes I know a bird is not the right pet for them. Pretty sure I mentioned that I have been trying to talk them out of getting one at some point already. No need to keep going over that is there?

Please help me reduce the damage. I can't take on a 'too when she realizes it's too much for her. And that is what will happen. It will be dumped on me.

Based on your requirement, only one Parrot species will fit. It may not fit perfectly and it is the Cockatiel. Not all cockatiels are too
"Independent" as you have put it and you may be able to get an individual bird that matches your requirements. The important thing to remember that even within Cockatiels different birds have different personalities and your friend may be better off rescuing an adult cockatiel which has previously been a pet.
This video may be useful to illustrate my point.

[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yikDSXd3jEA&list=PLvfjCS9azkaoZJkzJw6abY01K1372uLon&index=45&t=287s"]Reasons To Not Get A Cockatiel || Meet The Boys - YouTube[/ame]

 

[Skarila]

Cockatoos are the LOUDEST. And I mean it. Snuggly cockatoos are usually just super attached, and high chances the bird will be a screamer. I had a super attached IRN -not fun when he was shouting. I lost some hearing from him. Don't want to imagine what would be with a 'too.

As I said before, she might want to look into small pyrrhura species (emma's, painted, white eared..). She should get it as a handfed already socialised bird.
From my experience and what I have heard from others they are very calm, they truly do not nip ( their bite is litteraly a pinch), their volume (!) Is equal to a budgie. I find my budgie's shouting more annoying. Conures in general are cuddly creatures, mine isn't cuddly yet, but he likes hanging out with us bcs we are his flock, and these birds are heavily driven to be with someone. Some indenpendency is needed, you dont want to end up with a plucker if you go for your vacation. They are goofy and super cute, yeah they are messy, my flings his stuff on the wall, but a washable wallpaper behind his cage helped, plus my room looks cooler now!

And I will be rude now - your friend is so snobbish. It hurts me that a person who is finishing their degree to become a vet thinks that only vets are to be listened to. Didn't she think that all of us with birds are in touch with our avian vets? Heck, i myself wanted to be a vet since I was 15 - just my life went into a different direction, but my love for biology, animals, pathology and researching remained. Birds were always my biggest passion. No friggin textbook will teach you more about birds than owning one. Reading people's experiences, not just the happy ones. All their problems from "my bird became the devil over night", screaming problems, overly attached with one person, health issues, complete change of lifestyle.

If she wants a 'too, she is far better off with another child. At least the kid will grow up in 20 years. The 'too won't.

Another bird that might fit her description would be a senegal, but my only concern would be for the child as sennies have a powerful bite and can seriously injure. They can be quite unpredictable. But a 'toos bute is MUCH worse. She should google some images of cockatoos bites.

As I said before regarding bird biting, it is a matter of WHEN, not IF.

Also agreed with others who suggested visiting a bird sanctuary - that might be better. Let the bird choose you and your kid, keep visiting, and then maybe adopt. ( Though she should expect heavy regresssion from the bird in first 2 weeks once she brings it home, birds hate changes)

 

[Talven]

For those who may read this later and are interested Which Parrot Makes The Least Noise? (With Decibel Level Chart)

 

[Stitchthestitch]

The best living bird for her at this rate would be a dove.

Seriously. They coo so not loud they eat seed, they can't do much damage as they don't have a hook bill. They can be very sweet if you put the training in with them.

Your friend, if I may be so blunt, is an idiot. Even vets offer contradicting advice (I used to work In a vets) there is contradicting advice everywhere. She's in love with the idea of a parrot but isn't doing any of the leg work her self. As some one who is working toward a job in the animal medical field, she of all people should know the importance of doing her own research to make sure she can actually provide a good and enriched home for the bird.

 

[Betrisher]

It's not toxic, it's the truth, whether or not you're willing to accept it. The only bird suitable for this drongo is a plush one.

Why don't you put her in touch with Dr Rob Marshall at Carlingford? He's *the* bird vet in Australia and has strong opinions about how and why people keep parrots.

If his input won't sway her, nothing will.

 

[Flboy]

Talven, I hear your frustration! Hang in there! You know you are caught between a rock and a hard place!
My 1.5 cents? The S word!
Talk them into a starter bird! FYI- that concept is repugnant to me! Help them choose a cocktail! That way you will most likely end up with a bird that better suits you!
I know! Potentially, you end up with multiples!
Like the man said, "Hang in there, things could be worse!"
So I hung in there!
Sure enough, things got worse!

 

[noodles123]

This woman is just getting her masters in veterinary science...not even a doctorate and not with any avian expertise...she hasn't even graduated...First part of being a good vet: LISTENING TO PEOPLE and expanding your horizons through continued research etc....There are a large number of DVMs out there who flat out refuse to take parrots because they know they just don't have the training or tools....She's just a master's student...has 0 avian experience....let alone knowledge of the behavioral stuff she would need to handle a cockatoo.....
....When REAL VETS won't even see birds as patients because they are humble and self-aware enough to admit they don't have those skills.....but a less educated college student with no experience is cockier than all of them.



she has this insanely childish confidence that because she's taken a few classes about animals in general, that she knows better than those with actual experience....



She sounds exactly like the guy with the pony tail in the Harvard bar scene of Goodwill Hunting...WARNING The "F" word is used 1x at 2:54 or 2:55-- so you have been warned....
[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LMD2vUErcYU"]Goodwill Hunting | Bar Scene - YouTube[/ame]

 

[noodles123]

For those who may read this later and are interested Which Parrot Makes The Least Noise? (With Decibel Level Chart)

You can find 30 different versions of these all over and they are all over the board. In part, because birds who are screaming are often not doing it at their loudest level....So there is no way to tell if that was the LOUDEST they could go...
3 years after getting Noodles (or was it 3 years ago?..not sure), she made a sound so loud that I thought my brain was exploding-- Typically, when she screams, you can hear her outside of the house and down the street...But this scream was truly the loudest sound I have ever heard (if you put your ear to a school fire alarm and pulled it...with your ear on the noise maker. I don't know how to describe it...My point is, avian vets, rescues and parrot people will confirm that cockatoos are insanely loud....It's not just the volume, it's the tendency to scream far more often...especially because they are so needy and if over indulged (because that is often the only thing that stops the screaming for a "newbie") then the problem gets even worse.



The reason toos fill up rescues more than other birds is a complicated one, as parrots in general are already re-homed more than dogs and cats...But cockatoos top the charts...because they are a perfect cocktail of disastrous ingredients if you have never lived with one...past sexual maturity...

They often SEEM cuddly like dogs if you don't know what you are looking at (sexual behavior or baby behavior)....and with a super long period before sexual maturity (4-8 years depending on the species) there is so much time to make major mistakes that will backfire in a flash when the time comes...


She thinks she's going to start a rescue...sadly, she will be donating her bird to one in the near future (probably under the false pretense of "safety of the child" or allergies"...because she will never ever admit that she is making a mistake, even after she knows she's made one...Gotta preserve the ole' ego!

 

[Scott]

Please just close this thread. It's just getting toxic and pointless.

Closed per request. Future audiences will have opportunity to assess toxicity and pointlessness.