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Old 06-04-2019, 04:40 AM
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I think I may have an addiction . . .

So I went to have a look at some tame budgies as the picture I saw was of a gorgeous lime green bird. Turns out that it was no longer available, however they had some other birds available. The breeders were a couple of young lads (18 - 20) who were keen to make a few dollars. Too busy to look after the babies that they had they were keen to get rid of them.

After some discounts and a free bird thrown in I walked away with 5 young birds rather than the 1 or 2 I had thought about. I should have just bought the birds I wanted but after watching the way the babies were treated I couldn't leave them behind (neither could my wife so I'm not totally to blame right?).

Hatched at around April 15th according to breeder so pretty much just out of the nest. Any tips on diet, techniques to tame or anything else you think I need to know I'd appreciate. Been a very long time since I've had budgies and I have never had them so young.

I'll try to get some pictures up in the next couple of days once they have settled a bit. I would love the input of those more familiar with budgie genetics once the pictures are up.
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Old 06-04-2019, 07:24 AM
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Re: I think I may have an addiction . . .

Quote: Originally Posted by Talven View Post
So I went to have a look at some tame budgies as the picture I saw was of a gorgeous lime green bird. Turns out that it was no longer available, however they had some other birds available. The breeders were a couple of young lads (18 - 20) who were keen to make a few dollars. Too busy to look after the babies that they had they were keen to get rid of them.

After some discounts and a free bird thrown in I walked away with 5 young birds rather than the 1 or 2 I had thought about. I should have just bought the birds I wanted but after watching the way the babies were treated I couldn't leave them behind (neither could my wife so I'm not totally to blame right?).

Hatched at around April 15th according to breeder so pretty much just out of the nest. Any tips on diet, techniques to tame or anything else you think I need to know I'd appreciate. Been a very long time since I've had budgies and I have never had them so young.

I'll try to get some pictures up in the next couple of days once they have settled a bit. I would love the input of those more familiar with budgie genetics once the pictures are up.
good job as long as you have the place and attention for them you did a good job keep in mind having 1 budgie is easier to tame then 5, they are still pretty young so im sure you could manage to tame them.

heres a good guide on youtube about taming
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Old 06-04-2019, 01:28 PM
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Re: I think I may have an addiction . . .

Can you tell us whether or not your 5 new Budgies are already fully-weaned and eating only solid food, or did they tell you that you have to feed them hand-feeding formula because they are not fully-weaned yet? How about their feathering, do they already have ALL of their outer feathers completely grown-in, or do they still have bare/bald patches, patches with tons of pin-feathers sticking out of their skin, or with the fluffy Down-feathers that are underneath their outer feathers still showing?

The reason I'm asking these questions is because the advice that any of us could give you depends on whether or not they are fully-weaned and/or fully-feathered...This is extremely crucial for you to understand, hopefully they are both fully-weaned AND fully-feathered at their age...Budgies typically fully-wean between the ages of 8 to 10 weeks-old, fully-fledge around 6-8 weeks-old, and become fully-feathered around the same range that they fully-fledge, around 6-8 weeks old...

Also, are they all clutchmates (siblings)? If they told you that their hatchdates are all around April 15th, that is very vague and inaccurate info to tell you, especially with 5 Budgies, because Budgies have an incubation period of around 21-days after EACH INDIVIDUAL EGG IS LAID...[B]Budgie eggs hatch in the order that they are laid in, but there is at least 1 day between when each egg is laid, as well as at least 1 day between when each egg hatches, and there can be many more days between the laying of each egg and the hatching of each egg as well...So if all 5 of these Budgies are siblings from the same clutch of eggs/same parents, then there should be pretty obvious differences in what each baby looks like...For all 5 of them to be hatched on the same day, all 5 of them would have to have been from a different clutch and different parents, so 5 different parental-pairs and 5 different clutches of eggs that were laid at exactly the same time and hatched at the same time...Not likely at all...So if you know whether they are all from the same clutch and are siblings, and April 15th is "about" the time-period when they started to hatch, that would mean that the oldest Budgie of the 5 would be 7 weeks and 3 days old, and then each of the other 4 Budgies would be younger than the oldest by AT LEAST 2 Days, but possibly much younger, as we don't know how many total eggs were laid in the clutch and that were not fertile, didn't hatch, or hatched and then died. But since Budgies typically fully-wean between the ages of 8 weeks to 10 weeks, they all should be very close to fully weaned, with most of them fledging right now...And if that date of "around April 15th" is close to accurate, then they should all be close to fully-feathered, with at least 1 or 2 of them already fully-feathered...

If you can give a bit more info about what they are eating and what their feathering is like, and whether they are all siblings from the same clutch, we can give you specific advice...And this is very important because again, the formula temperature MUST BE EXACT, and they MUST BE KEPT IN AN AMBIENT TEMPERATURE OF 85 DEGREES F IF THEY DO NOT YET HAVE ALL OF THEIR OUTER FEATHERS GROWN-IN...They can become very, very sick otherwise...And then if they ARE fully-feathered they should be in a proper Weaning-Cage that has all the different items inside of it that they need to learn how to use, what they are, what to do with them, etc....So you need to really figure this out now so that you can ensure that they don't fail to learn how to do or eat certain things, and more importantly so you don't cause them to contract a GI Yeast-infection which can kill them and would require an Avian Vet to cure...

Also, as far as hand-taming them goes, can you tell us how much they were handled by their breeders? Did their breeders hand-feed them formula, or did they allow their parent Budgies to feed them? At their ages it's going to be much more difficult and take much more time every day working with them to hand-tame them (all 5 of them are at the very youngest still at least 6 weeks-old at the youngest, and up to almost 8 weeks-old)...This is why if you are going to hand-feed a clutch of parrots of ANY species, you need to leave them in the nest-box with their parent-parrots for at least the first 2-weeks, but remove them from their parents completely and start hand-feeding them at no older than 3 weeks-old, so that #1)They get the very important anti-bodies from their parent's "Crop-Milk" and are given time to build their immune-systems (no, it's not actually Milk, that's just what it is called, think of it like a kind of Colostrum), and #2) Because this gives them 2-weeks to grow in size, giving their human breeders a much better chance of them surviving and not aspirating formula into their lungs, which at an age under 3 weeks-old will kill them instantly in a matter of seconds, and #3) Because if you wait longer than 3 weeks-old to remove them from their parents and to start hand-feeding them, the babies have a lot more trouble learning to and being able to eat from an oral-syringe, some actually starve themselves to death because they simply refuse to eat formula, so they have to be Crop-Fed with a Crop-Needle each feeding..And for whatever reason, once they are with their parent-birds for longer than about 3 weeks, they just don't take to being handled by people as easily as they do if you pull them by the time they are 3 weeks-old and no older.
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Old 06-04-2019, 06:33 PM
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Re: I think I may have an addiction . . .

We weren't given any information on what they are eating at all. I would hazard a guess and say generic budgie mix. I have yet to see them eat at all. I'm not 100% certain they are weaned but I will get a better idea as the day progresses. I have only had them overnight at this point so it's a waiting game.

EDIT: Seen 4 of the 5 keen to get into the seed. The mostly white from the last picture is a concern. Very sleepy and not interested in food as yet. Probably just stress but I will keep an eye on it.

All of the birds are fully feathered.


Three of the birds are clutchmates for certain but no info given on the other two. The ino's and the mostly white are from the same clutch. The one with the blue rump and the yellow look to be from different clutches.

Behaviour of the birds suggests all of them are parent raised and not tame at all. The "tameness" was simply that they were too terrified of the seller to do anything. To show how they didn't bite one of the lads grabbed one of the birds and shoved a finger into it's beak. The yellow that they described as tamest was the plaything of a young child of 4 or 5 possibly younger.

We didn't get to see where the parent birds were kept. All the birds were brought to us out the front of the house. From the pictures on the ad they have quite a few pairs producing birds. These were the last few and they just wanted them gone asap.

Most likely we won't keep all 5 birds but do what we can to rehab them and tame them and then look at finding them a forever home (This is probably just wishful thinking)

I hope I covered all of the questions. Only been awake a short while and running on just 1 coffee so if I missed anything please ask again.

Last edited by Talven; 06-04-2019 at 07:52 PM. Reason: Update
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Old 06-04-2019, 08:36 PM
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Re: I think I may have an addiction . . .

It's known as MBS. Multiple. Bird. Syndrome.

Welcome to the club.
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Old 06-04-2019, 09:05 PM
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Re: I think I may have an addiction . . .

Yep the Multiple. Bird. Syndrome. It is quite contagious.

Don't be surprised if they don't eat for a couple of days. It takes time for them to adapt to new environment.
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Old 06-05-2019, 12:03 AM
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Re: I think I may have an addiction . . .

Yes I see how contagious it is. I suggested that we get another older budgie to help teach the babies to crack seed properly. My wife and I couldn't decide on one so ended up getting 2. My son wanted to go see the birds so my wife and son went back. Three birds later I now have 10 budgies. I think my next DIY project will be building an aviary.

We have all agreed that no matter what no more birds.

We are also looking at starting a open discussion group for those with MBS . . .
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Old 06-05-2019, 02:08 AM
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Re: I think I may have an addiction . . .

Sorry but there ain’t no cure for MBS, I’ve had it all my life ...
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Old 06-05-2019, 02:40 PM
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Re: I think I may have an addiction . . .

I only have two...but I have had two for over thirty years! If I had room I'd prolly have one...or two more
I simply love Budgies! They are so so so under-rated which is so sad. My first "parrot" was a beautiful light blue,with white and black markings. He was a male and my Mom got him for me for my Fourteenth birthday..I remember we got him at a "Grants" Department store ( Grants was like todays K-mart) I had him finger tamed in about five days. We got him one of those " teach your birdy to talk" records that I played a couple times a day for him. "Wally" loved EVERYONE in the family. He'd take baths under the kitchen sink faucet,or in my morning cereal bowl. He'd jump on my hand and fight with the pen or pencil as I did homework at the kitchen table,and pull my papers to the edge of the table and watch as the fell to the floor lol. He'd fly so FAST down the hall and land upside down on a big mirror Mom had attached to the living room wall. He would ride on the dogs back.. For $4.95 to us he was worth 4 million!
One fall night Mom was going someplace and Wally was out causing mayhem as usual. Mom didn't realize that he was on her coat when she walked out the door..Off he went!! Tweetin' and twiddlin' his heart out and landed in a neighbors tree a couple houses down from us. We put out his cage for him and made fliers,but the next day he was nowhere to be seen.. That was almost 50 years ago lol..no innerweb or face croak or anything like that.
OK enuff said!! Love your little budgies...keep us posted and more pictures please!!

Jim
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Old 06-06-2019, 11:33 AM
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Re: I think I may have an addiction . . .

Oh wow, I didn't realize the kind of place they came from...Thank you for taking these guys in and getting them out of there...While it is completely normal for a bird/parrot Breeder to not ever allow anyone into the room/aviary where their breeders/parent-birds are, that sounds like the only appropriate or normal thing that they did in-regard to your visit and their birds...It's quite obvious to me (and should be to anyone who is a reputable, experienced bird/parrot breeder) that these guys ARE NOT REALLY BREEDERS, at least not responsible, reputable, knowledgable, or experienced Breeders...They shound like they are people who said "Hey, let's make some extra cash by throwing a bunch of Budgie together an allowing them to breed with each other as often as they can so that they are constantly pumping-out babies we can sell...Not unusual unfortunately, but not good either. (due to health/germ reasons, plus not wanting to scare or stress the breeder-birds, as usually breeder-birds are not at all tame and have had little interaction with people, and the stress of strangers coming into the room/aviary they live in can not only cause them to become horribly stressed, but can actually cause them to stop laying eggs, for the eggs to be non-fertile, etc. So that's the only normal thing that these guys did)...

I can't believe that they actually "shoved their fingers in the mouths of the baby Budgies" to try to convince you that they were "tame"...Unreal. They're not very bright either...Baby Budgies don't bite very hard at all anyway, but that's not really the point....If these guys think that they can convince people that their baby birds are "tame" by doing this, then they have absolutely no idea what they are doing at all, and honestly they should be reported to whatever authority in your country deals with animal/pet abuse, so that they can hopefully be shut-down...But that's not what is going to help you guys right now...They definitely were parent-raised baby Budgies, and that's the ONLY THING these guys did correctly, they allowed their breeding-pairs to raise and feed their own babies and didn't think they that they would be able to hand-raise/hand-feed them (I'm actually surprised that they didn't). So it's actually a very good thing that your babies were parent-raised, because had those idiots tried to hand-feed them, my guess is that none of them would be here right now anyway they would have died from either GI Yeast/Fungal Infections because they wouldn't have kept them in a Brooder nor adjusted the ambient/air temperature they were living in based on the amount of feathering they had, and they would have failed to use a cooking/candy thermometer in the hand-feeding formula to ensure it was always within the correct temperature-range...OR they would have Aspirated hand-feeding formula into their lungs and killed them instantly that way. So at least they made the right call on that issue...

****So onto what you guys need to know/do...They should all be fully-weaned onto solid food at their ages, base on their feathering and the black-bars on their foreheads above their Ceres. They are still young babies, but they all look to be older than what you were told in my opinion. [B]They are all still well-under 1 year-old as none of them have yet developed their colored Irises but rather still have their all-black eyes...However, when I look at the white-pied baby in the last photo it appears to be a tad older than the rest, based on it's forehead-bars already starting to recede. But what is important for you to know is that:

#1) They are all fully-feathered and need NO extra source of heat, and shoul be living in a normally set-up cage with different types of toys, different types of perches, multiple bowls/dishes/containers of water and solid food, etc. (to prevent Bumblefoot and to keep their toenails and beaks trimmed, so you should have at least 1 cement perch, 2 is better for 5 birds)

#2) They should all be fully-weaned at their ages and be eating nothing but solid food at this point...HOWEVER, you need to watch all 5 of them very closely and individually, until you CONFIRM that each, individual baby is eating the solid food on it's own. IF ANY OF THE BABIES ARE NOT EATING SOLID FOOD AT ALL ON THEIR OWN, OR IF ANY OF THEM ARE CRYING A LOT (like they are BEGGING), THEN YOU NEED TO TRY OFFERING THEM A HAND-FEEDING OF BABY BIRD HAND-FEEDING FORMULA ONLY, AND SEE IF THEY GIVE YOU AN ACTIVE FEEDING-RESPONSE AND WILLING WANT TO EAT THE FORMULA. If this is the case with even one of the babies, then that means that they are not fully-weaned and they need to be offered a hand-feeding of formula once every 5 hours each day, along with ALWAYS keeping multiple bowls/dishes/containers of solid-food inside of their cage so that they can start/finish the weaning process.

****If you do have to hand-feed any of the babies formula, you MUST, THIS IS NOT OPTIONAL, YOU MUST go and buy not only a commercially-sold hand-feeding formula that is made specifically for baby parrots (Kaytee Exact and Roudybush are the most commonly sold formulas, either is fine), but you ALSO MUST BUY A CANDY/COOKING THERMOMETER THAT HAS A METAL-PROBE, and you must ALWAYS make sure the formula is between 104 degrees F and 110 degrees F AT ALL TIMES!!! Even 1 degree lower than 104F can cause them to develop a horrible GI Yeast/Fungal Infection that will then kill them without Avian Veterinary Care, and even 1 degree above 110F can cause a burn to their Crop, which will then develop into a horrible Bacterial Infection that has to be surgically cut-out by an Avian Vet...If the formula temperature drops at all below 104F then you must re-heat more water or Pedialyte, whatever you use to mix it, and add it to the formula, mix well, and put the thermometer back in it and wait until it's again between 104F-110F...Also, you cannot EVER feed a baby bird/parrot (or an adult bird/parrot for that matter) any other type of Formula but the commercially-sold hand-feeding formulas meant for baby Birds...You cannot EVER feed a baby bird/parrot anything sold for HUMAN BABIES, SUCH AS HUMAN BABY FORMULAS, MILKS, OR CEREALS, SUCH AS SIMILAC OR CERELAC!!! THIS CAN AND USUALLY DOES EVENTUALLY KILL THE BABY BIRDS WHO EAT IT! A lot of people around the world have to order the Kaytee Exact hand-feeding formula online because they can't buy it anywhere locally, so instead of bothering to order it online and waiting for it, they go out and buy a formula or Cereal-formula meant for Human Babies, Cerelac is the most-commonly use Human Baby Cereal that is fed to baby parrots...Human Baby formulas, Cereals, Milks, etc. ALL have a ton of extra Iron purposely added to them, and birds/parrots in-general cannot properly digest/process very much Iron at all, and they develop a condition called "Iron Storage Syndrome/Disease" which is usually fatal...

#3) As far as what solid foods to feed your babies, my guess would be that they were weaned-onto a daily "Staple-Diet" of Seed-Mix rather than one of Pellets...That's not necessarily a horrible thing as long as whtever Seed-Mix you choose to give them is one that is Low-Fat, High-Protein, and varied in it's ingredients...It's a gradual, slow process transitioning birds who were weaned onto Seed-Mix onto Pellets, especially very young, just recently weaned babies, and then also Budgies in-general are more difficult. Since the "Natural-flavored" Pellets made for Buddgies (size-wise) are limited, and since ANY OF THE MULTI-COLORED, FRUIT-FLAVORED PELLETS (OR NUT-FLAVORED) ARE LOADED WITH ADDED-SUGARS AND FAT AND ARE JUST AS BAD FOR THEM AS ANY CHEAP, JUNKY SEED-MIX, I actually recommend that you keep their daily staple-diet one of a high-quality, highly-rated Seed-Mix made for Budgies/Parakeets; make sure that they always have access to their Seed-Mix throughout each day, and then also give them at least 1 large portion of fresh Veggies and dark, leafy Greens every single day as well....

***I have been feeding my own English and American Budgies one of the highest-rated Budgie/Parakeet Seed-Mixes sold for years and years, ever since it came out, an that is Kaytee Forti-Diet Pro-Health (both my 8 pet English/American Hybrid Budgies who are now 6 years-old, as well as all of my breeder-Budgies that I kept during the 20 years that I bred parrots/birds)...There are quite a lot of Seed-Mixes for Budgies/Parakeets out there, but most of them are complete garbage and almost always cause the birds to develop Fatty Liver Disease, Kidney Disease, Obesity, Diabetes (caused by the Obesity), Heart Disease, as well as causing different types of fatty-tumors to grow all over their bodies, called "Lipomas" and "Granulomas"...I'll write another post below about their diet...
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