Harness training - I thought I was at step 1

Hey all,

Well I finally took the step and purchased an Aviator flight harness, and have just finished watching the video, I was all excited, and now feel a bit deflated to be honest, as reality sets in. I knew this wasn't going to be an overnight thing, but I think I am now realising how far I have to go, and that is before I even get the harness near them.

I have two eclectus parrots, Gizmo (male) and Pebbles (female), they both came to me as adoptions, with somewhat unknown pasts (especially Pebbles). Over the past year I have worked on getting them comfortable with being touched more, beaks, wings and around the head. Pebbles has taken to this better than Gizmo, but given originally touching Gizmo would result in a bite unless it was related to stepping up, things have improved dramatically. This is not to suggest they were unhandleable when I started, just that they are not your touchy feely I want a cuddle type

Watching the video, I saw the guy demonstrating the first steps of conditioning on a 6 month old Scarlet Macaw. Step one success means I can lift the wings up to a full extent up when closed with the bird accepting this.

Much as I want to get Gizmo and Pebbles in a harness as soon as possible, I think realistically I am looking at another 6 months before Pebbles will be comfortable with me extending her wing up as far as demonstrated, and as for Gizmo, well I can at least double that (I was hoping 6 months and they are in the harness, but that now seems very unrealistic).

I know there are a few who have had success and setbacks with harness training there eclectus, any tips on what you think helped with the success or lead to the setbacks?

Cheers,

Cameron

Hi, Have you tried in the shower to do what you need to? They seem to enjoy it and may be more amenable to you trying? WDYT?

Cameron I'm gonna be honest with you, it's an uphill battle for sure. The ekkie "don't touch me" attitude is real and it works against harness training, from what I have experienced. That plus the fact that they are older (meaning not babies).

I'm in your identical boat. It's something I'm still working on (started at Christmas) and am still working on only getting parkers head through the loop. He has that down, but if you make much movement he startles easily. So I'm stuck just trying to grab his wing with his head through the loop, which is slow going. Forget their technique of getting the head through the loop, just won't work.

I'm contemplating giving up now. Parker doesn't have a tendency to fly so the leg clips are looking pretty attractive right now. But for the time being I'm targeting a pak o bird to get him around. No way I'm carrying him around in his travel cage.

Where's Stephen? He's in the same boat we are but has infinitely more patience than me. We need a pep talk from him.

Rah Rah Sis Boom Bah. Pep talk over. It just takes time and small almost infinitesimal steps. Saltys head must have gone thru the loop over 180 times already. Every day since New years, at least. He is just now getting OK with me moving the harness around while his head is in the loop, and kind of tightening it.

I was researching harnesses lately and I really am unsure why Aviators are more popular than the Feather Tether. It seems to me on a skittish bird, putting their head through a loop would be far more difficult than buckling on a harness. Just my uninformed opinion as Kiwi is not harness trained. We use a pak-o-bird to go out and about.

Can't help ya Gracie will allow me to put the aviator all the way on her without a problem. After that - her OCD must kick in & she becomes 100% fixated entirely on picking @ the straps & no amount of distraction works, defeated the purpose so I put it away & like Kiwi I have a Pak O Bird & Wingabago carrier to go out it - depending on the activity

Liesl came harness trained (thank you Janelle!!!) but I dont extend her wings to put it on--Im not at the point where I can do that with her yet. I expand the loop as far as it will go and slide it under her wing and then shift the slack to the other side and repeat. Cinching it up is a bit harder to do, trying to keep her feet on the correct side and keep her beak out of it, but we get it done. She will pick at the harness if she gets bored so i try to keep it interesting, give her toys, treats, etc. to keep her distracted. I always take her outside immediately after I get it on so she associates it with outside time, and time with me---it's either the harness, or the crate....and she HATES the crate. I dont leave it on indoors----dont know if this is useful or not.

Wrangler is a touch me not right now...so we've just started working on harness training with the goal of accomplishing this before his primary flight feathers grwo back in. I let him chew on the harness as a way of not seeing it as a threat, and i open a large loop to let him put his head through without it beingbig deal. Nothing but positive association

It would be nice if Gracie would accept it being on but nope - she has no problems with me messing with her putting it on, adjusting it etc. The minute I'm done she's like one of those cat videos where the cat thinks it can no longer use it's legs, falls over or becomes completely fixated on killing the harness. If I start to undo it she'll back off, let me take it off of her then she walks away looking back at it like it's a piece of poo she just wiped off her foot.

LOL I have no idea why she even lets me put it on & gives me no struggle at all just to veto it once I'm done

Thanks everyone for chiming in, I watched the video a few times yesterday and just felt deflated at the realization that I was so far away from step 1.

When I woke up this morning, I realized that it really didn't matter, that even if I never get them harness trained, that the process towards it (if I do it right), will increase the trust we have and perhaps break down some of these "personal space" feelings that Gizmo especially has.

So I am going to approach things like this:

1a) associate the harness as a good thing and get the harness close to their heads

1b) start working on handling the wings more

I am already having a win with step 1a. Here are 3 videos, they are actually the 3rd and 4th interaction. The first was with the harness over my arm and having them step up and take the almond, but I quickly decided offering the almond through the harness was a better way to go, and it gets it close. My first lesson was to loop and secure the elastic lead end with a bag clip (it was moving around and really putting them off, they are used to bag clips as I often use them as a supervised toy).

[ame="https://youtu.be/xLXy7Rlq4WY"]Pebbles harness - YouTube[/ame]

Pebbles took to it well (as expected), I am holding the harness up and watching her eyes, you can see them pinging, but she doesn't move away, so I held it until I could see her settle.

[ame="https://youtu.be/6c71P5kHWEM"]Gizmo harness - YouTube[/ame]

This is the 3rd time with Gizmo, but the first time he actually took the almond from that hand. He was the one who noticed the hangning lead, and was freaked out about it, so I was actually impressed he recovered so fast and trusted me to come in and take the almond. This is where having Pebbles really helps, Gizmo didn't want to do it, but he wanted to make sure Pebbles didn't get the almond.

[ame="https://youtu.be/ClZzUxFqwk4"]Gizmo harness 2 - YouTube[/ame]

This is the fourth time, I was very happy for him to actually trust it enough to consider grabbing the almond with his foot without moving away. Not sure if you can notice it in the video, but I considered moving a bit closer when he reached with his foot to take the almond out of his mouth, but as he decides against it, I moved back a bit (so as not to have it become a bad experience).

It's clear Pebbles will take to this far easier, but given I was actually able to film Gizmo while doing this, I was very impressed with how he went today.

plumsmum2005 said:

Hi, Have you tried in the shower to do what you need to? They seem to enjoy it and may be more amenable to you trying? WDYT?

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This is a great idea for Pebbles, and I have actually started doing this today with tackling step 1b. Pebbles loves a row of tiles in our bathroom (they are black and she can see a slight reflection). Today I took her into the bathroom, she got tile staring time, and I actually managed to lift her wing half way up and hold for 3 seconds.

For Gizmo for this, I think I will need to keep at it just when he has a treat (he is far too high energy in the bathroom).

Anyway small steps today, but I think it sounds like the hard part starts after the head loop is on, so it's clear this is a long road to travel.

I intend to gradually move to the point that I am touching and eventually holding the beak with the hand that has the loop. I will then bring the over hand up and eventually over the head. Before I even attempt to put the loop over the head, I want to be able to hold the beak and slide my other hand over their head and down the neck (as this is how I am thinking I will achieve getting the harness over eventually). This will require a lot of trust and this is where I think Gizmo will struggle, but again if I get this far and fail, it is still going to be beneficial with building trust with Gizmo. The funny thing with Gizmo is he actually gets closer to me than Pebbles will (climb onto my shoulder, raise a leg and push right into my neck, grinding his beak as he falls asleep, but it's contact on his terms).

Cheers,

Cameron

Don't be down hearted you are doing a fantastic job! Loved seeing G & P as always. If you concentrate on Pebbles and IF you can succeed with her Gizmo may follow suit especially if there is something good at the end of it and she takes to it alright. If she is a good role model then use that to your advantage.

Cameron did you explore this stickey the behavior section? Note how we work the head loop, we don't try to push it over with the whole hand, we dangle the hole in front and let them put the head through. Better for an ekkie who doesn't want to be touched.

http://www.parrotforums.com/training/59374-harness-training-videos.html

Coopedup is right on point about the wing extension. You don't need to get the wing fully extended for harness training to work. There just needs to be a certain comfort level with you touching and moving their wings about. Maya is fully harness trained and all I do for the wings is to kind of slide them into the opening. Nowhere near a full extension.

And Chris is exactly right about getting the head through the loop. Just hold the treat on the other side of the loop and let them be the ones to stick their heads through the hole. Works out better that way.

Some birds will be tougher than others. I'd have sworn Jolly would've been the easier of the two to harness train, but it was the other way around. Jolly just freaks out having anything around his neck for longer than 3 seconds. Smh.

I know you're struggling with it, but this is both inspiring and comforting to see. I've been working with Uglow and his harness as well and it's been 2 steps forward 3 steps back lately. He thinks the harness is a toy and just wants to chew it. :34: Keep at it.

How embarrassing, Chris I did write a reply, but I think I got detracted and forgot to actually post it. What I did write was thanks, I had not seen that post and I will give this method a go (of cause that was about 10 days ago).

Stephen, thanks for sharing your experience, given your success, I am hoping I can pick your brains on your experience as I go through this journey.

Uglow said:

I know you're struggling with it, but this is both inspiring and comforting to see. I've been working with Uglow and his harness as well and it's been 2 steps forward 3 steps back lately. He thinks the harness is a toy and just wants to chew it. :34: Keep at it.

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I am really trying hard to ensure Gizmo doesn't start thinking of the harness as a toy, knowing Gizmo's personality, I think this will make things a lot harder

Where to from here?

Well after Chris's suggestion, I changed tactics and started coaxing them to put their heads through the loop. It actually worked a little too good for Pebbles as the second time, she ended up with her head in the loop and pulled away taking the harness with her. Fortunately instead of freaking out (as I suspected she might), once it was sitting correctly she settled down with half a almond in one foot and continued to eat. Gizmo was a bit more hesitant, but pretty soon he was putting his head through the loop and pulling back out.

So now (after about 10 days), I am at a stage were Pebbles will put her head through the loop and I can let go of the harness and she will happily have it on her until she runs out of treat, Gizmo will put the loop over the head fine, and if it lays on him comfortably he will accept it as he eats, but you can tell he is less comfortable about it. Just to clarify, they are not fully in the harness yet, just the head loop and the harness is just sitting on them.

All good right....well it's not perfect, they both absolutely hate removing the harness over the head, and to be honest I don't blame them. Either I am doing it wrong, or it's like trying to remove a turtleneck sweater. The harness is a medium and I think it's the appropriate size, it's more the fact that it draws the neck feathers forward during the removal, which as I understand is something particularly uncomfortable for eclectus parrots (due to the feather structure).

So the hating of removing the head loop is definitely annoyance and not fear, as they are happy to go right back into the loop as long as their is a treat to be had.

So after my long winded explanation, I am wondering, do I focus on practicing the head removal, to make it less annoying (I really don't think it will ever be something they enjoy), or do I continue forward and start working on playing with the wings and balance with the harness over the neck and resting on them?

I am thinking the second, based on two main reasons, firstly I will be going through the step of removal every time anyway, so I don't see a need to make it a specific step and secondly I don't want the harness to be associated as an uncomfortable thing at the moment it's 2/3rds OK (head going through to put it on, and them eating the treat with it on them, the 1/3rd bad being the removal).

Anyone recommend a different approach, or is there a trick to removing the head without drawing up the neck feathers?

Cheers,

Cameron

I'm glad it's workin for you Cameron. And welcome to what had become the make or break stage for me. We're on a training hiatus right now because we just can't deal with the next step, calmly getting the wings through. I've got my finger hovering over the buy button for a pak o bird for this very reason. I certainly hope you have even more success than you've seen now

camo said:

...Anyone recommend a different approach, or is there a trick to removing the head without drawing up the neck feathers?

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Well, if you do settle on removing the head, a few ruffled neck feathers will be the least of their problems. Hahahahahaha!

Okay, sorry. Just couldn't resist. Here's a helpful tidbit or two. First, make sure to associate a specific command with removing the harness. For me, when I'm putting the harness on I say, "harness." And when I'm taking it off, I say, "off." Hey, Keep It Simple and Stupid, right? KISS works.

Second, reward the removal process just as you do the initial steps. That makes it something to be anticipated. In the interests of full disclosure, however, I must admit that I cheat on this part with Maya. You see, she's just not as food-motivated as Jolly is. Or rather, she understands treats for what they are. Something extra. Icing on the cake. And treats them as such. So treats will entice her to do something she doesn't mind doing anyway. But if it's something she finds less than desirable? Well, she has the patience to wait for her next meal... which she understands is inevitable. Sigh...

Soooooo... since the removal process annoys her as well, I simply feed her treats during the entire removal process to keep her busy. If I take too long she begins to lose patience anyway, but otherwise she remains suitably distracted until it's removed.

Honestly, the toughest part with her harness training has nothing to do with her. Or not directly, at least. It's in training my own hands to perform the removal as efficiently as possible. I just fumble too much with the buckle, and poor Maya has to demonstrate the patience of Job himself while I'm removing the harness. Lol!

But yes, if you keep her distracted during the removal process and associate a specific command with the off phase, things should go more easily. Good luck!

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What I've always been doing is coaxing Mango with an almond. He is a bit wierd, meaning, he loves to bury his head in things, almost like a cat☺. So putting it over his head isn't usually a problem. As for his wings, he doesn't like me to stretch them out, but he will lift them off his side, for a scritch, tickle, or what have you. I just lengthen the harness to fit mostly around his wing, still have to bend the wingtip ever so slightly to get it on. By this time he is usually trying to figure out why his foot is stuck in the harness more than anything else . Once we get that taken care of, we head outside, where he forgets it's even on.

Thank again guys for the great advice, I will attempt to put them into practice. I suspect from here it will be a longer road, due to the fact that I have never pushed my guys to appreciate scratches or tickles. I suspect it will be a case of needing them to get used to the harness, but also teaching them without the harness to accept me touching them more.

I will keep you all posted as things hopefully progress

Anansi said:

camo said:

...Anyone recommend a different approach, or is there a trick to removing the head without drawing up the neck feathers?

Click to expand...

Well, if you do settle on removing the head, a few ruffled neck feathers will be the least of their problems. Hahahahahaha!

Click to expand...

:18::18:....umm yes, I am keen for them not to fidget, and as much as this might stop that, that wasn't my plan