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General Health Care Remember to use common sense and consult with an avian veterinarian.

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  #11 (permalink)  
Old 01-20-2019, 07:20 PM
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Re: PBFD Free (now what?)

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  #12 (permalink)  
Old 01-20-2019, 08:31 PM
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Re: PBFD Free (now what?)

I see it now and beak is not center and is growing more on one side and that is not normal and the shape as well? I know that metabolic abnormalities could be cause by liver disease, it could be also caused by Viral, bacterial, or parasitic infections of the beak tissue itself? It can take 9-12 months to start seeing beak go back to normal, if she had liver issues. Being a combine blood feather and other feather related issues and beak issue worries me, something not right?

How did they do the PBFD tests. Beside DNA probe tests, they sure have done a feather follicle biopsy, they also do tests on the skin as well?

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Old 01-20-2019, 08:39 PM
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Re: PBFD Free (now what?)

agreed...just can't figure it out...Beak has been this way , blood is normal (2x recent cbc + liver panel), + PCR PBFD panel etc...weight, foot grip, etc= all normal..her beak shape looks okay to me, but it's off center due to longer lower mandible..swabs/gram stains=normal too---vet thinks she may have been born this way or had issues earlier in life that caused her beak to be slightly off.

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Old 01-20-2019, 08:50 PM
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Re: PBFD Free (now what?)

Quote: Originally Posted by noodles123 View Post
agreed...just can't figure it out...Beak has been this way , blood is normal (2x recent cbc + liver panel), + PCR PBFD panel etc...weight, foot grip, etc= all normal..her beak shape looks okay to me, but it's off center due to longer lower mandible..vet thinks she may have been born this way or had issues earlier in life that caused her beak to be slightly off.
Maybe as she could have had a injury early on, which would also cause it as well? Hopefully nothing serious and can figure it out, or won't be serious enough to affect her much.
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Old 01-21-2019, 02:27 PM
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Re: PBFD Free (now what?)

I highly doubt that any of this is due to a nutritional issue, especially if her Liver and Kidney panels have been normal, and she's not showing any deficiencies at all...Just because a captive/pet bird that doesn't fly 10 miles a day foraging for their food eats a staple diet of seed-mix does not in any way mean that they are going to have Liver Disease or nutritional issues at all, IF the seed-mix you're feeding the bird has no Sunflower Seeds, No Nuts, and no Dried Corn or other "fillers" that the cheap, junk seed-mixes contain. In-fact, I truly believe (and my CAV totally agrees with me, he's actually the one who made this point to me in the first place) that a pet/captive bird is much better-off nutritionally eating a healthy, low-fat, varied seed-mix as their daily staple-diet than they are eating a Fruit-pellet that is loaded with sugars that ends-up being stored in their Liver as fat anyway! Most people who feed their birds a Fruit-flavored pellet just don't understand or even think about this factor, all they think is "Pellet=Good, Seed-Mix=Bad", and that is such a falsehood...It's no different than people forbidding their human kids from drinking any Soda at all, and instead letting them drink all the concentrated Fruit-Juice that they want! Most Fruit-Juices contain every bit as much sugar as regular soda does!!!! And even the Fruit-Juices that are "100% Juice" are still full of sugar even though they contain no "added" sugar like most regular Fruit Juices do, as we all know Fruit itself contains a ton of natural sugars, such as Fructose...So even though the "100% Juice" Fruit Juices contain less sugar than regular Fruit Juices or Soda do, they are still loaded with sugar...So it's the same concept as the Fruit-flavored pellets, they give the bird's owner a false sense of security simply because their bird is eating a pellet instead of seed-mix...I'd much rather that my birds ate a healthy, low-fat seed-mix like Tropimix, Higgin's California Blend, any of the Volkman's seed-mixes (before they added Peanuts to them), Zupreem Smart-Selects, etc. as their daily-staple than any of the Fruit-pellets...

Either way, I don't think that Noodle's plucking of her chest, nor the wonky feather has anything to do with her diet...As far as the "wonky blood-feather", if I had to guess I bet on it being the result of an injury to a blood-feather. I don't know if you remember this, but my Cockatiel, Duff, broke a huge blood-feather in a flight-feather almost 2 years-ago, and I couldn't get the bleeding to stop so after 5 minutes I had to pull it out of her wing with a pair of needle-nosed pliers...It was the most awful thing I've ever had to do to one of my own babies, she screamed so horribly and it nearly killed me to do it to her, but it saved her life, as she had already lost a couple Teaspoons of blood at that point, so she didn't have much longer...Well, obviously she went straight to her CAV after this happened, and he cleaned it up under gas-sedation and everything looked fine, but that flight feather has never grown-in properly since, and as a result Duff has not been able to fly since...She can glide pretty far, but she cannot get any lift at all...

It kills me to admit this, but when i yanked that blood-feather out of her wing (it was her largest flight-feather, of course it was, lol), I permanently damaged the follicle...So while the feather does keep growing back in, it ALWAYS grows-in "wonky", sometimes it will even grow to it's full-length, but it actually grows a keratin sheath around the entire length of the feather that never sheds...So she ends-up with a fully-grown flight-feather, full-length, that is encased inside of a huge keratin sheath...My CAV said that the only way to stop this from happening is to actually put her under general-anesthesia and then attempt to remove or "damage" the follicle so that a feather will no-longer grow from that spot at all again...I haven't had this done as it doesn't hurt her or cause her any pain, so why put her under general-anesthesia and risk it when it's nothing more than a feather we have to pull-out once every few months...But the point is that usually when a feather grows-in "wonky" like that, it's due to an injury to that particular feather (if it only happens once), or to the actual follicle if it happens repetitively. So i wouldn't worry about the wonky blood-feather at all unless that same feather grows-in the same way or at all "wonky" the next time she molts it...

As far as the feathers of her crest seemingly growing-in constantly/falling-out constantly, that also happens with Duff too, and I finally figured out that it was due to a combination of two things, actually by watching a Moluccan Cockatoo at the Rescue that was with us for almost 2 years who had the same thing going on, he constantly had pin-feathers in his crest, and it was often very "thin" looking, not always, but often. So I was trying to figure out what the issue with him was, I tested him for PBFD and he was negative, and he was not at all a plucker...So we put a web-cam on his cage and one of our behavior specialists/trainers sat and watched him for a good 2 months (god love her, lol)...She figured out his crest was constantly being pulled-out/damaged from 2 things...#1 and the main-reason was that he spent most of his time on the perch in the top of his cage, and his crest was constantly rubbing back and forth on top cage bars, all day long, every day...And then #2 was something I noticed with Duff, and that was the only bird in our flock that Duff like and is bonded to (before Dylan the Dove moved-in, not that he could do this to her anyway, lol) is Bowie, and she is constantly bending-over for either Bowie or me to give her head/neck/face scritches, and Bowie goes right for her crest and over-preens them...

I don't think you have another bird, at least not one that preens Noodles, but is it possible that her crest-feathers are rubbing up against anything, like her cage-bars, or something else? Also, do you see her scratching her head/crest-feathers with her feet at all? it's possible she's over-preening her crest and that's why she is constantly growing them in...The bottom-line is that usually when they have individual feathers that have grown-in "wonky" or they have a weird blood-feather, it's typically due to an injury or that particular feather getting stuck in something or being banged-off of something...And the same goes when it seems like they are constantly "molting" or growing feathers back-in/constantly having pin-feathers in one specific area like their crest-feathers, it's typically due to them over-preening the area, another bird over-preening that area, or especially on the top of their heads it's likely they are rubbing up-against something constantly...Typically these specific/individual feather "issues" or "oddities" are not due to a Feather-Destructive Behavior, nor due to a medical condition or Avian Viral Disease...

***Now it might be worth having a skin-swab done on her head and having microscopy done and a culture sent-out to be plated just to rule-out a Fungal/Yeast infection, especially in-combination with the area on her chest that is obviously the result of her plucking herself...A lot of bird owners and even Avian Vets will do a full Fecal work-up that includes microscopy/Gram-Staining as well as a Culture/Sensitivity, and they often will even do a Crop-Flush and do a full work-up on that as well, but they often fail to simply swab/culture the exterior-skin to rule-out a topical fungal/yeast infections, which can often be quite severe/advanced and very commonly the cause of plucking one specific area. So if Noodles has yet to have an exterior skin-swab taken, I highly suggest that you have that done ASAP, because usually if there is an exterior fungal/yeast infection, it will be quite apparent by simply looking at the swab under a microscope; usually there will be yeast all over the slide...
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Old 01-21-2019, 04:48 PM
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Re: PBFD Free (now what?)

Quote: Originally Posted by noodles123 View Post
Here is a close-up of her beak- again--impossible to really see what I am talking about, but it isn't quite centered and one of the lower mandibles tends to grow longer than the other.
You can also see her bald spot in the 1st picture.

The feather picture is from when I first took her to the vet and the vet said it looked worse in the picture than in real life. It also has improved altogether since then.
Has me stumped. But Noodle has a cute face!!! It is worse since first post. Hope you get a answer, that is not bad.
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Old 01-21-2019, 04:52 PM
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Re: PBFD Free (now what?)

Quote: Originally Posted by Laurasea View Post
Quote: Originally Posted by noodles123 View Post
Here is a close-up of her beak- again--impossible to really see what I am talking about, but it isn't quite centered and one of the lower mandibles tends to grow longer than the other.
You can also see her bald spot in the 1st picture.

The feather picture is from when I first took her to the vet and the vet said it looked worse in the picture than in real life. It also has improved altogether since then.
Has me stumped. But Noodle has a cute face!!! It is worse since first post. Hope you get a answer, that is not bad.

What is worse since first post? Her beak? Which first post are you talking about? I can't even recall. Her beak to me looks as bad as it always has, but it has always weirded me out. A lot of how it looks depends on camera angles. It is hard to see unless you look at her head-on.

Last edited by noodles123; 01-21-2019 at 04:55 PM.
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Old 01-21-2019, 05:17 PM
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Re: PBFD Free (now what?)

The feather. I remember when you posted it was just a red dot... Not the big red line it is now. Beak looks good, don't remember seeing it before.
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Old 01-21-2019, 05:35 PM
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Re: PBFD Free (now what?)

Quote: Originally Posted by Laurasea View Post
The feather. I remember when you posted it was just a red dot... Not the big red line it is now. Beak looks good, don't remember seeing it before.

Ah, lol yes....sadly, that was a different feather. She had one with a split in it and then she had an odd teeny-tiny little red dot on the back of one of her neck feathers.


Now that you mention it, I wonder if this wing feather is the replacement for the one that had the split in it.
Hmm......


They are different feathers, but that one may have been in the same location...or very nearby at least. She shed it a few months back.
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