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Old 04-09-2019, 02:11 AM
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Question My lovebirds donít love eachother, any advice?

Hello fellow bird owners

I just registered this account, mainly to ask advice on what to do with my love birds, but Iím already so excited about everything! Lol and I can already see myself being on this site allot. I mean just look at these parrot emojis!! theyíre amazing!!

But yea, let me start from the beginning. About almost two years ago my father randomly dropped off a blue agapornis(lovebird) at our home which he said was meant as a gift. It was pretty stressful since we never owned a bird before and we had absolutely no idea how to care for one, but did our bests on learning how to since she turned out be a very sweet and loving bird and we really wanted to keep her. We initially assumed that she was a male, so my little brother named her after a boy (he named her Isco).
She was very tame from the beginning, she loves being around people and she even gives kisses lol, but she does sometimes like to bite your hands and sometimes she will even try to peck at your lashes which can get annoying.

After a while we noticed Isco had laid eggs. After she started laying eggs she would mercilessly bite whoever dared to enter her cage, so we have to lure her away every time we want to change her water or whatever. She spends allot of time sitting on her eggs and after laying them she will almost never leave her cage, when she does leave the cage she constantly looks for holes and folds to make a new nest, itís adorable but we also thought it was kind off sad since we knew nothing was ever going to come out off her eggs.

So recently (a few months ago) we bought another male agapornis so Isco could become a mom, we named him Mango since his colours look like a mango.

Mango is a very tame bird who never bites, he also loves humans and also gives kisses now (which he didnít do in the beginning, idk why). He is very well trained and never randomly leaves your side, unlike Isco. He does need allot of attention, and when he isnít out of the cage he will literally scream until someone gives him attention, which Isco never does.

We introduced them slowly, at least we think so. We first kept Mango in the cage and made Isco fly around it so she wouldnít feel jealous or threatened, when she landed on the cage they kind of started to fight with their beeks but it wasnít really rough (it actually looked like they were kissing at first lol). We put them in the same room in separate cages (one on each side of the room) and after a day or two we decided to both let them out at the same time. At first they didnít seem interested in each other and they would sometimes fight again with their beeks, after a while Isco started to get jealous of Mango so she constantly scares him off every time he gets too close to us. When he tries to get close to her she will also try to peck him, which he never does to her. She did one time enter the cage of Mango, which he found no problem, but every time he carefully tries to get close to her cage he gets attacked. Till this day theyíre still in separate cages in the same room and we never forcefully put them in the same cage since we feared they might kill each other.

Weíre pretty sure Mango is a male since he keeps trying to burp up food and he also never laid eggs while heís around the same age as Isco.

My problem now is that I still have a lovebird who is obsessed with her empty eggs and now on top off that also have a very needy but sweet lovebird who canít help us fix the problem. We were thinking about maybe finding a new home for Mango and buying another male for Isco, but at the same time weíve already gotten pretty attached to Mango and thereís no guarantee that the other bird will be a match. Iím just kind off sad that it isnít working out.

Is there any advice that yíall are able to give me? Have I done something wrong with the introduction? Is Mango too tame? Should I try something else like getting a third cage or something? Is it just a bad match I canít do anything about? And is it even a good idea to make my bird a mom in the first place? I also mentioned that Mango is a screamer while Isco is mostly quiet and calm, could it be that sheís just fed up with his screaming and doesnít like him due that?

Thanks allot in advance for reading this long ass story, and I look forward to hearing yíalls opinions on my bird dilemma.

Sending love from Amsterdam!
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Old 04-09-2019, 10:40 AM
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Re: My lovebirds donít love eachother, any advice?

Welcome to you, Isco, and Mango. Excellent introduction!!

While I am not familiar with lovebirds, a few avian generalities apply. Does Isco have a nest box? Egg laying behavior begets aggression, and can result in nutrient depletion or worse, egg binding. (often fatal if egg not released) Solution is to remove the next box if installed. If egg laying is chronic and does not cease, certified avian vets have meds to reduce hormonal activity as last resort.

There are no guarantees birds will like each other suitable for caging and mating. It is possible Isco and Mango may develop a friendship if placed in neutral territory, ie a playstand or top of new cage. Mango's regurgitation may be a mating related display.

You'll likely receive comments from members familiar with lovebird rituals and behaviors!
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Old 04-09-2019, 11:02 AM
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Re: My lovebirds donít love eachother, any advice?

First of all, welcome to the community! You found the best overall parrot-forum on the web, hands-down, and we have a ton of very experienced and loving owners who always put the birds first, and we can certainly help you out with your problems...and you have a few of them, lol...

So the very first thing that EVERYONE needs to learn when they are new to owning parrots (or any species of birds at all), is that all parrots, regardless of their species, form relationships with each other just like people do, and even though they are definitely "Flock-Animals", that doesn't mean that just any other bird can join their flocks, lol...In fact, for most pet birds/parrots, their owners and the rest of the people who live in the home with them are their "Flock", and as long as you have enough time each and every day to spend with your bird, let them out of their cage (at least 4-5 hours a day minimum for parrots due to their high-level of intelligence and their high level of socialization), and can provide them with many different types of toys at foraging activities for when you're not at home, then they don't need any other parrots as 'friends". That's a very common misconception, and unfortunately at lot of people actually go out and buy a second bird FOR THEIR CURRENT BIRD BECAUSE THEY THINK THEY MIGHT BE LONELY WHILE THEY'RE AT WORK DURING THE DAY...And this is the biggest mistake a beginner parrot owner can make, because probably around 60-70% of the time (I actually think it's way more often than that, but I'm being conservative), they end-up with 2 birds that they have to be Flockmates to, and at separate times because they can't even be out of their cages together at the same time...One of the most important rules to parrot-owning that everyone needs to learn is "Never Buy a Second Bird For Your First Bird!!! You ONLY Buy a Second Bird (or any additional birds) BECAUSE YOU WANT A SECOND BIRD AS ANOTHER COMPANION FOR YOURSELF!!!

***Here's the deal: There is NEVER any guarantee at all what type of relationship/bond, if any, that a second bird you bring home is going to have with your first bird. They might love each other and bond very closely with each other (especially if they are the same species), sometimes so much that they eventually want to share one, single "territory" with each other (meaning their cage), and this pretty much only happens with opposite-sex pairs of the same species (YOU ALWAYS MUST DO A 30-DAY QUARANTINE OF ANY NEW BIRD YOU BRING HOME IN A TOTALLY DIFFERENT ROOM FROM ANY BIRDS YOU ALREADY HAVE, BEHIND A CLOSED-DOOR IS BEST..So you ALWAYS must have a second entire cage set-up BEFORE you bring home a new bird, because they can NEVER just be put into the same cage with your current bird(s), that's asking for a huge Avian Vet bill or death)....OR they might really like each other and love being together outside of their cages...OR they might not really like each other, but also not dislike each other, but simply just tolerate each other and are able to be out of their cages together without any aggression or jealousy issues, or they may only have issues when you are involved and they are jealous...OR they may totally dislike each other and not really be able to be let out of their together at the same time without very close supervision....OR they might totally hate each other and not be able to be out of their cages together at all, even under supervision, because one or both of them are always very aggressive and violent and they will injure or kill each other...YOU JUST DON'T EVER KNOW! And this goes for ALL SPECIES OF PARROTS, including Lovebirds...Some people think that Lovebirds have to be brought home in pairs always and that they cannot live alone with their human owners or bond to them like other parrot species do...And it's just not true, they work the same way as any other parrots, they may or may not like another bird you bring home, and they don't need another bird as a "friend" or "flockmate" as long as they have at least one person that they are closely bonded with and that can spend time with them every single day...

***So as far as your two Lovebirds, it sounds very much like they are not going to be birds who are close to each other, they must always live in separate cages, though I'd keep them in the same room (you should have your bird's cages in the 'main-room" of your home, or the room where you and others who live with you spend most of their time when they are at home; usually this is the living room, family room TV room, Den, etc. This goes especially for your birds since they are not a bonded-pair of birds, they both need to have their cages located in the room where your family is usually at and where visitors spend time when they come over, because they ARE FLOCK-ANIMALS and it's very important that they are "among their Flock" whenever they are home, and their "Flock" is you and the others you live with; do not put them in some spare-bedroom or other back-room in your home that is supposed to be "The Bird Room", because they don't like each other and they are not entertainment or companionship for each other at all)...I would also only let them out of their cages together under supervision, because it's likely that they are always going to be at least a little aggressive with each other, especially if there is a jealousy issue over you or anyone else in the family. So make sure that they each have their own individual cages in the "main-room" of your home, but on opposite sides of the room if possible, or as far apart as you can make them, because they each have their own "territory", and they can also become extremely territorial over their cages, T-Stands/Play-Stands, Gyms, etc. in addition to being jealous over whomever they have each chosen as "their person"...So if they both have chosen you as "their person", there is going to be some jealousy, and you need to try to spend some one-on-one time with each of them separately if they fight whenever they are out of their cages together...They can really hurt each other or worse, especially during "Breeding-Seasons", which are typically in the early-mid Spring (right now) and the early-mid Fall, when their sex-hormones are going insane...

****An even bigger problem that you have is the chronic Egg-Laying by your female, because this issue is dangerous to her health, and actually can become life-threatening/fatal to her, so you need to do everything you can to stop it ASAP. I'm going to write another post below this one that discusses the Egg-Laying/Hormone issues that you're having...But to answer your overall question, NO, you absolutely do not want your female to be laying infertile-Eggs, and you absolutely DO NOT WANT TO BREED YOUR BIRDS!!!!! I'll explain more below...
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Old 04-09-2019, 12:02 PM
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Re: My lovebirds donít love eachother, any advice?

So first of all, Egg-Laying by pet female parrots is extremely hard on their bodies, and can result in any number of serious health issues, from the very common and almost guaranteed-to-happen problems like Malnutrition, Undernutrition, Calcium and Phosphorous Deficiencies, becoming extremely underweight, etc. It takes female parrots an enormous amount of calories (energy in-general), Calcium, Phosphorous, Vitamin D, etc. to first produce the Egg-Follicles, and then to turn the Follicles into Eggs and their Shells...And then it takes another whole new amount of overall- energy and nutrition for them to actually lay an Egg. And in-addition to the nutritional-deficiencies and the overall malnutrition, [B]the most life-threatening issue that is unfortunately extremely common is the female becoming "Egg-Bound" while trying to lay an Egg, meaning she cannot pass the Egg out of her body, either because the Egg's shell is too soft and gets stuck (due to the nutritional-deficiencies above), which is the most-common cause of Egg-Binding, or because the Egg is simply too large. Those are the two most-common causes of Egg-Binding, however there are others, such as the Egg missing the Oviduct (like their Uterus) and being deposited into their free abdominal-space, or the Egg-Shell rupturing/breaking inside of the female's body, which immediately causes a horrible and usually fatal bacterial-infection in the bird's Oviduct called "Egg-Peritonitis". Egg-Binding, regardless of the cause, is fatal 99.9% of the time without immediate medical-intervention as soon as you notice that your female is having trouble laying an egg (usually they look like they are continually trying to pass the egg by "straining" constantly, like they have to poop but can't)...And a large amount of the time, even if you get your bird to a Certified Avian Vet immediately upon noticing there is an issue, they still die because it almost always requires emergency open-abdominal surgery to remove the egg immediately...And Egg-Binding is ALWAYS horribly and agonizingly painful for the female bird...So the bottom-line is that you need to do everything you possibly can to stop your bird from laying the Eggs, and then to keep her from starting again in the future...And this also goes for your male Lovebird as well, because what causes a female bird to start continually-laying infertile eggs is the same thing that causes male birds to become extremely aggressive, violent, and display behavioral-issues that they don't normally display...And what causes all of these issues are SEX-HORMONES.

***So you need to do everything you can to eliminate "triggers" around both of your birds that cause their sex-hormones to rage, and this includes things both inside of their cages and outside of their cages, as well as some things that you and others in your home just cannot do...Here are the most-common causes of pet birds/parrots becoming hormonal:

#1) Having anything inside of their cages that creates a Small, Dark Place that they can get inside of or underneath. This is probably the #1 overall-reason why pet parrots become hormonal, because their owners provide them with things inside of their cages that are supposed to act a "Beds". Your birds don't need a bed at all, they should be sleeping on a perch at night, and they also don't need any type of "Nest", or the material to make a nest out of. Birds in the wild only make nests during breeding-season, so obviously providing a "nest" or "nesting-material" inside of your bird's cage is a big no-no. So you need to remove ANY AND ALL Boxes of any kind, Tents, Beds/Triangle Bird Beds, Hammocks, any type of "Happy-Huts" or "Snuggle-Huts" (there are other reasons why NO BIRDS should have these ever, they have killed thousands of pet birds due to reason other than causing their hormones to rage, which they also do, but they are a huge no-no), any towels, blankets, pillows, or other types of fabric, etc. All of these need to be removed from both of your bird's cages immediately if any of them are inside of their cages, and never put them back in...

Also, never put anything that could be used as "Nesting-Material" inside of their cages, such as any type of animal 'Bedding" at all, such as wood-chips, shredded-paper bedding (Carefresh is an example), Corn-Cob bedding, Walnut-Shell bedding, etc. The only thing that you need to have in the bottom of each of your bird's cages is some type of flat sheets of paper to act as cage-liners and that you change when they are soiled at least once a week...Newspapers, Butcher's Paper, or dedicated bird Cage-Liners that you buy in a pet shop, and that's it, don't use anything else to line the bottom of their cages...AND THESE NEED TO GO UNDER THE GRATE IN THE BOTTOM OF THEIR CAGE, SO THAT THEY DO NOT HAVE ACCESS TO THEM!

#2) Petting your bird anywhere but their head, face, and neck. Those are the safe-zones, their heads, their faces, and their necks. That's it, pretty much anywhere else you pet/scratch/touch your bird can easily make them hormonal. So you shouldn't pet/scratch them on their belly, their back, their wings, NEVER underneath their wings (that's a huge one), their tail-feathers, and of course on on their legs or anywhere near their vents.

#3)Letting them get underneath furniture, inside of cabinets, behind pillows, or underneath blankets or towels while they are out of their cages. Same thing happens as putting the above things inside of their cages. My male Green-Cheek Conure purposely tries to go underneath my couch because it instantly puts him into a "Hormonal-Trance" where he becomes suddenly extremely aggressive and violent. He's otherwise a total sweetheart and snugglebug, but the second he goes underneath a piece of furniture or under a blanket, it's on! So make sure they have dedicated places that they know are their "territories" outside of their cages. For example, buying or building each of them their own T-Stand or Play-Stand out of either wood/branches or out of PVC-piping and fittings and having them near their cages so that when you open their cage doors they will eventually learn to fly right to their stands and they'll actually stay there, believe it or not. It's also good to hang at least one toy on each of their stands, something that they can chew on or work at to keep them busy. This will keep them from getting underneath furniture and out of trouble. And you can put newspaper underneath their stands to catch the poop...And if made out of PVC-piping, they're extremely light and portable, so you can move them to any room in the house easily...Google search "PVC Parrot-Stands" if you aren't familiar with them..

#4) Avoid feeding them any warm, mushy foods. Warm, mushy foods resemble their hand-feeding formulas and the food their mother and father regurgitated-up for them during their first 2-3 weeks of life. This triggers them to start regurgitating themselves, usually for "their person", and this triggers their hormones to go nuts. So avoid warm, mushy foods like oatmeal, grits, mashed potatoes, etc.

***#5) THIS IS A BIG ONE! Make sure they get at least 10-12 hours of sleep every single night; Put them on a "Natural-Light Schedule" THIS IS WHAT YOU NEED TO START DOING IMMEDIATELY TO KNOCK YOUR FEMALE OUT OF BREEDING-SEASON AND TO STOP THE EGG-LAYING!!! You've probably noticed that the wild birds outside start chirping away and flying around in the morning when the Sun starts to rise, and also that once the Sun has set and it's dark outside, you no longer hear any birds outside or see any flying around (except for any nocturnal birds, such as Owls)...This is because birds naturally set their internal-clocks with the Sunrise and the Sunset. So when someone has a pet parrot who is extremely hormonal, like a male who has become extremely aggressive or a female who has become a chronic egg-layer, the very first thing they should do after they remove any of the Beds, Tents, :"Huts", Boxes, and Nesting-Materials from their cages is to put them on a "Natural-Light Schedule". Usually it takes between 2-weeks to 1-month for the Natural-Light Schedule to "Knock them out of Breeding-Season" and stop the aggression and the chronic egg-laying. So this can also help your male Lovebird to settle-down as well ([B]Your female continually/constantly laying-eggs and sitting on the nest all the time is no-doubt also effecting the sex-hormones of your male, so a Natural-Light Schedule is going to help both of them)...Basically you simply need to make sure that they can see the light-changes of the Sun from their cages (just need to be able to see when the Sun rises and the Sun sets by the light-changes in the room their cages are in); So you let them observe the light-changes as the Sun sets, and then once the Sun has totally set and it's dark, that's bedtime, regardless of what time of day it occurs (in the summer they're up later, in the winter they go to bed very early); the same goes for when they get up in the morning...
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