65 day old Military Macaw Questions

spidervalve100

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Aug 15, 2013
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Hello everyone,

This forums has been a great help and ultimately lead to getting my baby Marshal. I have been hand feeding him since August 15th and everything has been going pretty good. Took him to the vet last week and everything was good. He is 841 grams as of this morning and still growing between 5 and 15 grams a day ( he is slowing down a bit but every now and then he'll jump). Now, My questions are four fold 1) weaning, 2) games, 3) biting 4) cages. Alot of the information is either conflicting or is so up to the bird, that there is not enough information out there.

1) From everything I gather, weaning is all up to the individual bird. Some will wean quickly, and some will take forever. The thing that I am a bit confused on is when to start trying. I have been offering Marshall bananas and apple sauce and a bowl of water for a week now (he started beaking around and acting interested in other foods) and he only cares about chewing on the bowls. The first day he went for it but couldnt figure out how to pick up a piece or chew it right so he got really upset yelled for a minute, went to sleep and never tried again. I am feeding him 60-80 cc 3x a day (He is trying to turn down food which is a sign to wean but he wont eat anything else). Not sure on what to do from here.

2)Games. He is getting a little tired of preening/cuddle time, rolling the ball, tickle time, and "come here". Hast yet learned step up but knows step down. He doesnt like to step onto things. He is learning to talk a bit. I say hello he makes a two syllable mumble (pretty cute). He can perch a little but he doesnt like to and he is hanging from both sides of the perch/my hand. Is there any other good games to play/training exercises for him this young.

3) Biting. I know there are two methods of bite training. Never let them beak ANYTHING, and beak control. Not letting them beak anything seams to me like telling a blind person they can not touch peoples faces because every now and then they end up slapping the person. So beak control is they way I want to go. What are the best ways you have done this for a baby. Saying ouch then leaving the room for 2 min seams to be the favorite, but its always nice to learn new methods.

4)Cages. Right now I keep him in a 52 qt bin with paper towels that get changed 4-5 times a day (Who knew such a small thing can poop SOO much). I have made a small practice cage for him out of a midwest 36" portable wire dog crate. I used the divider it came with to make a small floor panel and a spare 24" cage bottom I had to make the floor. I then used some acrylic panels to put on top of the cage divider to make a solid surface on 1/3 of the cage. The crate came with a removable tray so is just like a real bird cage now (I tipple checked and he cannot stick his head through the bars). So when would be a good time to make a permanent switch. Ive let him roam around in it and he likes it because he can flap his wings without hitting anything, but refuses to walk on the cage bottom, just the acrylic with paper towels. I keep my house at 80 degrees F which is comfortable for him.

Thank you all for any information in advance.

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JerseyWendy

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Jul 20, 2012
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Marshal is just TOO adorable for words!!! What a super cutie!! Many congrats! :D

He may be a tad bit too young to start weaning just yet. He is barely over 2 months old, and those big guys take anywhere from 4 months and up to wean. :) It's a GREAT idea that you are offering him things, but please don't accept him to actually nourish himself yet. You can try and eat right in front of him. Take a piece of banana, for example, take a bite, and make a big deal about how yummy it is. Then offer him a small chunk by hand. Keeping a big, heavy bowl on the bottom of the container or crate with some soft foods may entice him to try some foods on his own, but again, he's really young. You could try millet as well.

As for games...hmmm...does he have a plush animal he can snuggle with? How about wiffle balls? Anything big and colorful he could chase after. They like soft objects when they are babies. :)

Biting?? They learn with their beak. They use it for EVERYTHING. They explore their world with it. :) Surely this little cutie isn't crunching down on your digits yet, is he? :11: Since he is so young, verbally tell him "gentle" or "easy". Pick a cue word you like the best and stick with it. Then when he IS gentle and easy, praise praise praise. Make a HUGE deal of what a good birdy boy Marshal is.

As for switching him to the crate. Is there a way you can extend the plastic, so he doesn't have to stand on the grate? If so, you can probably put him in there now. Just remember that baby big macs are VERY clumsy.

Have you heard of rope boings? My Niko learned to perch on those first. :) Here is a picture:
 

noblemacaw

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Sep 23, 2011
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Valentino - Red Fronted Macaw - Hatched August 12, 2012
What an adorable baby. Thank you for sharing the pictures of him.

I have never raised a parrot as young as yours. I have always gotten my babies as weaned and then they came home. I have hand fed to help with adjustment and help with confidence. There are more experienced people that can help with your questions. I wanted to thank you for posting the pictures and gush on how cute your baby is.

Wendy the pic of Niko is so precious. He looks like he is going to grab that thumb and start pumping. LOL. I so love baby parrots.
 

MacawLoverOf3

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Jun 23, 2013
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I am not a breeder but according to the bible, The Large Macaw, your baby's weight is too light. I'll list the weights from the book starting at day 65. The next number will be the average weight, minimum and finally maximum

65 954.2 896.0 1062.0
66 948.6 888.0 1034.0
67 935.8 874.0 1025.0
68 930.4 875.0 1020.0
69 925.2 864.0 1025.0
70 915.5 850.0 1010.0
71 906.8 835.0 980.0
72 895.8 825.0 970.0
73 883.1 800.0 955.0
74 875.3 795.0 960.0

Top average weight was on day 50 when the weights start doing down afterward
50 1015.5 950.0 1095.0

Breeders (non Macaw) say to up the amount of food 10% but when it comes down to Macaws the birds haven't read that book and require more. Now what that is, I don't know because I don't breed but this is a lesson I have learned from a good friend who has raised a lot of Macaw babies.
 

JerseyWendy

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Jul 20, 2012
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I am not a breeder but according to the bible, The Large Macaw, your baby's weight is too light. I'll list the weights from the book starting at day 65. The next number will be the average weight, minimum and finally maximum

65 954.2 896.0 1062.0
66 948.6 888.0 1034.0
67 935.8 874.0 1025.0
68 930.4 875.0 1020.0
69 925.2 864.0 1025.0
70 915.5 850.0 1010.0
71 906.8 835.0 980.0
72 895.8 825.0 970.0
73 883.1 800.0 955.0
74 875.3 795.0 960.0

Top average weight was on day 50 when the weights start doing down afterward
50 1015.5 950.0 1095.0

Breeders (non Macaw) say to up the amount of food 10% but when it comes down to Macaws the birds haven't read that book and require more. Now what that is, I don't know because I don't breed but this is a lesson I have learned from a good friend who has raised a lot of Macaw babies.

Marshal's weight is fantastic. Military Macaws ADULT weight is around 900g - 1130g.

Military macaw - Ara militaris : WAZA : World Association of Zoos and Aquariums
 

MacawLoverOf3

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Jun 23, 2013
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Jody
Kalea
Donovan
Marshal's weight is fantastic. Military Macaws ADULT weight is around 900g - 1130g.

Military macaw - Ara militaris : WAZA : World Association of Zoos and Aquariums

The difference is the baby was 65 days yesterday and is not an adult. That is why it is so important to weigh a baby each day to make sure it is on track as to the growth chart that was created after observing a number of babies (I don't know off the top of my head what that number is and because I should be getting my work done and I can't start searching for that info). This book was written by Joanne Abramson, Brian Speer and Jorgen Thomsen and is considered the Bible amongst Macaw Breeders because they compiled such valuable information.

As you can see, the weights would be dropping but this baby is no where near what it should be at currently.
 

JerseyWendy

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Jul 20, 2012
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The difference is the baby was 65 days yesterday and is not an adult. That is why it is so important to weigh a baby each day to make sure it is on track as to the growth chart that was created after observing a number of babies (I don't know off the top of my head what that number is and because I should be getting my work done and I can't start searching for that info). This book was written by Joanne Abramson, Brian Speer and Jorgen Thomsen and is considered the Bible amongst Macaw Breeders because they compiled such valuable information.

As you can see, the weights would be dropping but this baby is no where near what it should be at currently.

The weights you provided from your book, are those the weights of "large macaws" in general, or are those strictly weights for a Military Macaw?

And this baby IS where he should be. The OP stated he is still gaining between 5-15g each day.
 

MacawLoverOf3

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Jun 23, 2013
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Jody
Kalea
Donovan
This book has the weights specifically for the different species of the large macaws and I copied the info from the chart for the Military.

I have learned that raising Macaws is really different from other species of babies and that 10% rule if you will, is not what people should be going by. I know of 3 birds that had stunted growth because they were not feed out properly and 2 of them are dead and the 3rd has major issues. A macaw should not have to scoot itself around on the floor using the beak to pull itself around nor using that beak to pull itself up onto the owner or in the cage.

Hyacinths are supposed to be huge birds but you see so many of them that are smaller than a GW. Ever wonder why? I am no expert but one of the things I see in common is all these birds being raised on pellets and don't know what fresh foods are. Pellets is probably better than the all seed diet that was used years ago but I never saw a pellet grow on a tree. To me, that is taking the easy way out in feeding our birds. A lot of of these so called breeders are in it for the money and the less time they have to spend feeding it out they will and what do you end up with but a baby that is not at the weight it should be.

Properly feeding babies is an art and when it comes to the Macaws, it is even more so.
 

JerseyWendy

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Jul 20, 2012
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VERY very well said, MacawLoverOf3!

I just browsed through some pictures of when I first met my Nikolai. He was completely raised by his breeder, I didn't get to bring him home until he was completely weaned.

Anyway, here are some pictures, in which Niko is exactly 60 days old, and he sure had a whole lot more feathers than Marshal. :confused:

Maybe Marshal is younger than 65 days????



Niko and his brother


 
OP
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spidervalve100

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Thank you for all the replies. Jersey wendy- Niko is beautiful. I do actually have one of those perches lying around somewhere. As for the beak, its getting a sharp point and he likes to use it. Doesnt hurt but I want to make sure to nip this in the but before it get to be a problem. I can throw some more acrylic over the caged part to give him more room. When would be a good time to try to switch him over to the cage.

As far as weaning goes I was just hoping to get him a little used to food. The two books I have and a few places on the internet I have read say they should be dabbling in soft foods around this time.

As far as weight goes. He kind of sky rocketed last night. 877 this morning. I do believe he was stunted a bit by the breeder. She was only feeding him 2x a day when I picked him up. his head wasnt overly large for his body but his skin was thin and we was definitely skinny. I immediately switched him to 4x a day, 10% of his body weight, at 75% water and 25% food at 104 degrees F and his growth has been very good since. It did slow down about two weeks ago and I just increased the food to water ratio to 70/30 and that took care of it. Vet said he was fine as well. Do you think I should go back to 4x a day until he catches up to the charts? My biggest problem with him right now is I give him 60-70 CCs just fine then he wont take anymore. I dont have The Large Macaws but I do have Psittacine Aviculture: Perspectives, Techniques and Research which has similar charts that show he is on the low end for his age/weight.

Thank you guys so much for all of your help. So far you have offered more help than the vet. Ill try to upload some more pictures of this little guy for ya.

Also thank you MacLoverOf3, I have been looking for those numbers since I started to suspect he was stunted.
 

MikeyTN

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"Dixie"LSC2, and "Nico" Scarlet Macaw.
Any charts that's given is an approximate as some birds vary in size once fully mature! I know this cause I raised all my chicks the same way with same formula and same schedule and they grow up different in size. Its approximate comparison charts, not the book of god!

Pellets is the easy way out yes but it seriously is more of a balanced diet. You can feed the bird seeds and check the weight then switch to pellets and check the weight again, guaranteed to be less! But while on pellets, if the bird was treated for a virus and such, while recovering the pellets doesn't help to gain the weight back, supplements was needed. I've tried this in the past!
 
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spidervalve100

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I know the chart isnt the end all say all. But like I said, im pretty sure he was either stunted or he is a bit younger than I was told. At just over 5 weeks old the sibling hadnt even opened his eyes. Marshall just started opening them. Seamed a bit late to me. Im not too concerned he seems to be doing pretty good other than not wanting to more. What would you guys recommend as a better feeding scheduled. Should I go back to 4x a day. Also, MacawLover said that 10% of the body weight doesnt apply to macaws. What would be a better way to calculate? Just when he is finished eating?

Here is some more up to date pics of Marshall. I realized the one I uploaded was a week and a half old. Sorry about that. It was just such a good pic.


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marshall1_zps51fc84d4.jpg
 

MikeyTN

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"Willie"&"Lola"B&G Macaw,
"Dixie"LSC2, and "Nico" Scarlet Macaw.
Feed the amount he would eat, IF the food comes back up, that means your over feeding. I kinda throw the charts out the window when it comes to individual baby feeding as over time the more babies I go through they eat different amounts. I would do the 4 times a day feeding for right now. All you have to check to see if the crop is fully emptied when it's time to feed again. If it's not, change your feeding schedule. Just to make sure you check often to make sure it is going down, not the same size an hour or two ago when you check it. As there can be complications with crop stasis and such can occur. Always make sure you sanitize everything in between feedings.
 
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spidervalve100

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Thank you MikeyTN, you have been a huge help. Ill start feeding 4x a day again. He seamed more active at 4x a day anyway. He is eating really well today for some reason, 75cc no problem. I guess he likes the bigger cage I have him in now. His crop is near empty in 4-5 hours and always completely empty in 6 hours. My 4x a day schedule is 9 am, 2pm, 7pm, 12am. I would start earlier but the breeder fed him at 9am and 9pm, so I did 9 to keep some sort of consistency in the feeding. After the 9 hours his crop would have been empty for 3 hours.

One last questions for you guys. My local pet store is out of the Exact Macaw hand feeding formula, but they have the Exact high fat blend. Anyone ever Tried this? Is it any good? They also have Tropicana and a Zupreem hand feeding formula. He has about 2-3 days worth left, and with the weekend shipping isnt really an option. Any suggestions?
 

calieckies

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Aug 2, 2013
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Houston, TX
Parrots
Eclectus, Macaw, African Grey, Toucan
This may help photos and videos of another Military Macaw - to help with judging ages:
Watch our Baby Macaws Grow! | CNY Aviary

Also you stated the breeder had a 5 week old and it's eyes were not open yet? Macaws typically open their eyes 15-27 days old. -- If they told you the chick with closed eyes was 5 weeks old I would not trust their ages at all.
 
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spidervalve100

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This may help photos and videos of another Military Macaw - to help with judging ages:
Watch our Baby Macaws Grow! | CNY Aviary

Also you stated the breeder had a 5 week old and it's eyes were not open yet? Macaws typically open their eyes 15-27 days old. -- If they told you the chick with closed eyes was 5 weeks old I would not trust their ages at all.

That was my thoughts exactly. So I guess its safe to say he is not 70 days old, rather 45-50 days old. The only other explanation I found is he is a very underweight Buffons.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6-gb-eaXG_U]Ara Ambiguus 90 Days, The ARA Project - YouTube[/ame]

Appearance wise he has been following this guy pretty closely (if the breeder told the truth about the age). Especially in the earlier days. But im sure she lied about the age to get rid of him faster. Poor guy.

Thank you JerseyWendy, I will pick up the high fat formula today! Heard that Militaries need higher fat than others so I was pretty sure that was the better way to go.

I cannot thank you guys and this forum enough!
 

calieckies

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Aug 2, 2013
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Houston, TX
Parrots
Eclectus, Macaw, African Grey, Toucan
Honestly the likelihood of you having an under weight Buffons is maybe 1%?
Buffons are very rare and very expensive. That's like saying you may have paid for a Blue and gold and picked up a Hyacinth macaw instead. There is only 1 breeder I know who has babies in North American for sale right now. They are extremely hard to get a hold of and are around 6-8 grand for a baby.
Having a Buffon myself there is a huge difference which is easily noticeable - while your baby is absolutely adorable it does not have a beak large enough to be a Buffon- they have a beak the size of a GW.
I would say your baby is younger then they said and if it was being fed twice a day is also under weight/size due to not getting proper nutrition early on but it sounds like you are doing the proper research to make sure your baby gets all the food and love it needs. It is great to see people who love their birds like this :)
 

MikeyTN

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"Willie"&"Lola"B&G Macaw,
"Dixie"LSC2, and "Nico" Scarlet Macaw.
The feeding hours are changeable so don't worry about what the breeder was doing on the feeding schedule. The schedule I give you is plenty of time with 6 hr interval in between feedings that give it plenty of time to digest all the food within the crop sac. You don't want to impact new food on top of old food. That means given enough time for the food to pass through while being fully emptied. This will save you heartache and high vet bills! You can stick to your schedule if you'd like, just be sure the crop is completely empty!!!! IF you want to follow my schedule, do your last feeding at 9pm like you've been doing then start the next morning at 6am. Raising babies is hard work and tiring! Try doing it hourly....I had to set my alarm by the hour while snoozing throughout the day.
 

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