A little worried... Need some thoughts!
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noodles123
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- Jul 11, 2018
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- Umbrella Cockatoo- 15? years old..I think?
I know it is awful to spend money like that, but I think you will feel much better knowing that you can eliminate certain worries from your mind etc etc. Birds are such puzzles. Getting them tested was the right thing to do. I hope you were able to drink a large glass of wine afterwards lol. Going to the vet stresses me out.
EllenD
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Well at least you've got the process started...Here's to hoping the PDD test is negative, as that's the one you have to really worry about due to Cheddar...
I hadn't thought about a bone-density issue causing her problems with flight, but that not only makes sense, but it's common...It's usually due to a hormonal issue rather than cancer if it's all of her bones in both wings and not just one specific bone or area in a bone, or only on one side. There are a lot of nasty bone cancers that can cause tumors to form in the bones, but with both of her wings having bones with abnormal densities, that is most likely related to hormones...And also the fact that she's a female makes it even more probable that it's related to a hormonal issue, usually an Estrogen problem that can be resolved with different hormone therapies, and sometimes a change in diet as well...Hopefully that's exactly what the issue is...
I hadn't thought about a bone-density issue causing her problems with flight, but that not only makes sense, but it's common...It's usually due to a hormonal issue rather than cancer if it's all of her bones in both wings and not just one specific bone or area in a bone, or only on one side. There are a lot of nasty bone cancers that can cause tumors to form in the bones, but with both of her wings having bones with abnormal densities, that is most likely related to hormones...And also the fact that she's a female makes it even more probable that it's related to a hormonal issue, usually an Estrogen problem that can be resolved with different hormone therapies, and sometimes a change in diet as well...Hopefully that's exactly what the issue is...
ParrotGenie
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It likely hormonal as seen it before in Cockatiels and Conures. It is that time of season as well, beside the fact she a female.
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OP
YUMgrinder
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So the doc put chessie on metacam, her first dose was tonight. She was very confused with the metacam her hat stayed up for about 10 minutes after I gave it to her with lots of lip smacking. She flew from me to her perch for the first time in a month. Landed it well too. So I guess she can fly again?
noodles123
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Metacam is an ant inflammatory- did they tell you why they are putting her on it?
Great news that she flew! lol
I also think it's cute that she reacted in a surprised way to her new drug (I think I would take that reaction any day over head shaking and running away LOL--never used Metacam here, but maybe it is like a fine wine)
Great news that she flew! lol
I also think it's cute that she reacted in a surprised way to her new drug (I think I would take that reaction any day over head shaking and running away LOL--never used Metacam here, but maybe it is like a fine wine)
OP
YUMgrinder
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She didn't try and fly away from me, I don't even think she knew she could fly again, I haven't seen her try in awhile. I made her give it a shot and she was able to fly. Maybe she doesn't need the metacam. I honestly don't know why they want her on it. I can't remember now I was thinking it was something to do with seeing it if helps with the excess bone density but that doesn't sound right....?
- Dec 18, 2013
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Just reading through this thread now. Sorry to be late to the discussion. I just wanted to point a few things out. But first, I'm so sorry you're going through more health issues with your flock.
Okay, first, I'm glad you went with the University vets rather than the local one, as I think the proper response to a vet who claims that fecal smears have been "debunked" is to run as hard and fast as you can in the other direction. Not to mention the botched blood tests and the lazy assumption about it being a weight issue.
I do, however, want to clarify one thing. There is indeed no way to test for PDD (Proventricular Dilation Disease) via a blood test. It's probably the only thing that vet was right about. (Cheddar was tested for PDD via a necropsy, which allows the vet to observe the lesions and widening of the proventriculus indicative of PDD. And PDD can also be potentially determined in a live bird via biopsy if it has progressed enough.) There are, however, blood tests for the precursor to PDD, which is ABV (Avian Bornavirus). And while false positives are not as big an issue with the ABV test as false negatives are (as the test is only positive while they are actively shedding the virus... which is a term for the virus itself and nothing to do with whether the bird is actually molting), even a positive does not necessarily confirm if a bird is vulnerable to PDD.
Why? Because there are around 9 different strains of ABV, and only 2 of them can actually lead to PDD. Yet somewhere in the realm of half the population of captive birds do carry a form of ABV... and unfortunately there is no way to know for which of the 9 strains your bird has tested positive. So a blood test for ABV simply serves as an element of compounded evidence rather than anything conclusive in and of itself. Know what I mean?
Also, you'd mentioned that the former vet said he didn't see the reason for an x-ray since the physical exam went okay. This is also a bad call, as an x-ray is a good tool for detecting PDD. An enlarged proventriculus would go a long way to indicating the likely presence of PDD. Of course, it depends on whether the PDD has reached the stage where there is significant enlargement. And undigested foods would also show up on an x-ray.
And finally, a possible reason for the Metacam is that, as an anti-inflammatory, it is essential for treating birds with PDD. A great medication to prescribe when PDD is the suspected illness, as it needs to be treated aggressively and early on to manage the symptoms given an outbreak.
Ellen and Laura's points about the neurological symptoms Chessie is exhibiting are spot on, and those are indeed symptoms of PDD... among other illnesses, of course. I'm only focusing on PDD because Cheddar had it. And while PDD is not anywhere near as contagious as PBFD or other diseases (as it's more often transmitted vertically - parent to child), it might well have been transferred by one bird feeding another, or by a bird ingesting infected fecal matter.
So while there is any suspicion of PDD whatsoever, be VERY strict about cleaning EVERYTHING. (Yes, I know all birds cages and stands should be kept clean, but I mean taking it to a whole other level. If it's in a communal space, get to that dropped poop immediately rather than waiting a few minutes. You know, stuff like that.)
I hope it doesn't turn out to be PDD at all, but figured I'd make this post just in case.
Okay, first, I'm glad you went with the University vets rather than the local one, as I think the proper response to a vet who claims that fecal smears have been "debunked" is to run as hard and fast as you can in the other direction. Not to mention the botched blood tests and the lazy assumption about it being a weight issue.
I do, however, want to clarify one thing. There is indeed no way to test for PDD (Proventricular Dilation Disease) via a blood test. It's probably the only thing that vet was right about. (Cheddar was tested for PDD via a necropsy, which allows the vet to observe the lesions and widening of the proventriculus indicative of PDD. And PDD can also be potentially determined in a live bird via biopsy if it has progressed enough.) There are, however, blood tests for the precursor to PDD, which is ABV (Avian Bornavirus). And while false positives are not as big an issue with the ABV test as false negatives are (as the test is only positive while they are actively shedding the virus... which is a term for the virus itself and nothing to do with whether the bird is actually molting), even a positive does not necessarily confirm if a bird is vulnerable to PDD.
Why? Because there are around 9 different strains of ABV, and only 2 of them can actually lead to PDD. Yet somewhere in the realm of half the population of captive birds do carry a form of ABV... and unfortunately there is no way to know for which of the 9 strains your bird has tested positive. So a blood test for ABV simply serves as an element of compounded evidence rather than anything conclusive in and of itself. Know what I mean?
Also, you'd mentioned that the former vet said he didn't see the reason for an x-ray since the physical exam went okay. This is also a bad call, as an x-ray is a good tool for detecting PDD. An enlarged proventriculus would go a long way to indicating the likely presence of PDD. Of course, it depends on whether the PDD has reached the stage where there is significant enlargement. And undigested foods would also show up on an x-ray.
And finally, a possible reason for the Metacam is that, as an anti-inflammatory, it is essential for treating birds with PDD. A great medication to prescribe when PDD is the suspected illness, as it needs to be treated aggressively and early on to manage the symptoms given an outbreak.
Ellen and Laura's points about the neurological symptoms Chessie is exhibiting are spot on, and those are indeed symptoms of PDD... among other illnesses, of course. I'm only focusing on PDD because Cheddar had it. And while PDD is not anywhere near as contagious as PBFD or other diseases (as it's more often transmitted vertically - parent to child), it might well have been transferred by one bird feeding another, or by a bird ingesting infected fecal matter.
So while there is any suspicion of PDD whatsoever, be VERY strict about cleaning EVERYTHING. (Yes, I know all birds cages and stands should be kept clean, but I mean taking it to a whole other level. If it's in a communal space, get to that dropped poop immediately rather than waiting a few minutes. You know, stuff like that.)
I hope it doesn't turn out to be PDD at all, but figured I'd make this post just in case.
OP
YUMgrinder
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Well, chessie can fly again. Shes back at it, and I am happy to see it but it appears that the vet didn't help, it just went away. Blah. Still no results on the blood test yet
- May 23, 2018
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Sunny a female B&G macaw;
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All are rescues- had to leave their previous homes for 'reasons', are still in contact with them :)
This is not meant as an attack or critisizing in any way, it is just plain unadulterated curiosity: this is new to me and exciting, do you have a source for that? (I would love to read more/ delve deeper)
I think the anti-inflammatory pain medication is what is making her feel better and flying. Do happy things are Improving!!
yuko
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my grandmother's bird can't fly because of 1, shes only flew a few times when taken out of her cage by accident, and 2, because of shes so overweight that her wings can't support her. I don't know what the issue is but I hope you find out 
- Dec 18, 2013
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I didn't take it in a negative or criticizing way at all, Christa. I appreciate intellectual curiosity. I'd done a ton of research on this stuff, back when I found out that it was what had killed my Bixby. I'd have to backtrack to find a lot of the sources, as I hadn't kept specific track of what I found where, but the majority of what I learned about the different strains of ABV didn't come from what I'd been able to uncover via research. Rather, it came from living sources.
One is my flock's current CAV, Dr. Dazen in NJ. And the other, now retired, was a pioneer in PDD/ABV research named Dr. Doolen, also in NJ. Both were kind enough to speak with me for hours, answering all of my questions and addressing my concerns.
It managed to give me a bit of closure, though of course I wish I'd known a lot of that stuff sooner. It pains me to know that Bixby might have had more time with us if his vets at the time had recognized sooner what he had. Dr. Doolen told me of a macaw that had already lived with this illness for 13 years (at the time). Why? Because they'd caught it early enough that the episodes could be treated with anti-inflammatories and antibiotics to contend with any secondary infections. Recognizing the potential symptoms of this disease and catching it early are key to treatment, and while it can't yet be cured (they have yet to identify the exact catalyst that triggers the shift from ABV to clinical PDD), it can be managed.
OP
YUMgrinder
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She could fly before I started the meds. And she only got the one dose cause she seems fine now. Not sure what changed...
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