a tale of two grey--opinions, please

[mizithra]

New to the forum, but long-time grey owner. I have a 26-year-old male Congo (Kimba), whom we've had since he was a baby, and I have a 16-year old (presumed, but not sexed) female named Ellie. She was re-homed with us 15 years ago.

Kimba was my baby and quite sweet until age 7 or so, when he decided he didn't much care for me and became quite nippy. Ellie has always preferred my wife. Kimba and Ellie have lived together harmoniously in a large enclosure for 15 years. If they indeed are male and female, they haven't shown any interest in nesting. Kimba is a perpetual plucker but otherwise healthy; Ellie is prone to over-preening in winter but in good feather most of the year. Their enclosure is in an area where there is a lot of activity, other birds and animals, etc. They have a good diet and lots of enrichment. What they haven't had is lots of physical contact from me.

This summer I have been trying to use some positive reinforcement and clicker training to attempt to re-establish a physical bond with them and although it is slow going, there has been some progress. I don't expect an overnight turnaround, especially after many years of being essentially hands-off birds (Ellie is very gentle with my wife). What I've noticed is, that since I've begun working with them, they fight more with each other. Ellie has become much more territorial and aggressive around toys and cage space with Kimba.

Is Ellie jealous of the attention I've been paying to Kimba (I've been equal in my attention to both in terms of training)? She is trying to protect him by redirecting her aggression? Would training be more successful if the birds were caged separately, in the same room?

Anyone had a similar situation or insights?
Mark Steighner

 

[wolf0994]

I have been told by numerous people that birds caged together will look to each other for companionship and bonding instead of humans, though they will tolerate humans. I would suggest caging them seperately even if just temporarily and see if the training improves. Maybe give it a couple of months and see what happens. I know that our CAG was a cagemate with a DYH amazon for 15 of his 16 years, his first year being the only year he was by himself. He rapidly began to avoid human interaction once caged with the amazon. The former owners could still feed him treats etc, but he would no longer step up or allow them to pet/rub him. We have had him since April and he is in his own cage, we do have one other bird (parakeet). He now happily will touch and kiss everyone in my family with his beak. He even allows visitors to do the same, though more cautiously. I am working on getting him to step up which is slow but will be worth it. I can pick him up from the ground without any difficulty. But off of the cage is not possible just yet. I am not rushing him though as it has only been 4 months since we have had him. I will say his former owner has come to the house 4 times and has been amazed at the difference in interaction with humans.

 

[greycloud]

Having raised greys for over 30 years I have experienced this to some degree at earlier times. It would help if you could explain what Kimba's actions are to her and you when you are trying to work with him.
Whether Ellie is male or female she could very well be behaving this way to protect him from you. I do not believe this is jealousy in any way. They have been together for a while and you are intruding on their bond in Ellie's eyes.
It may help to separate them when working with Kimba so she does feel threatened. If this is impossible I would try and move your attention to try and work with Ellie and ignore Kimba and see if there is any change. Using reinforcement with both at the same time would be ideal but sometimes the bond is just to strong and protective instincts take over.

 

[mizithra]

When I work with Ellie, Kimba sits on a higher branch and watches very intently. When I work with Kimba, Ellie often will try to push him out of the way.

I think that separate cages (in separate rooms?) might be the solution during training, but I would be concerned about the negative impact of disturbing a long-term pair bond.

 

[greycloud]

I agree. I would not separate the two. This would not be fair. But you could work with them separately. It sounds like Kimba is more settled and sure of himself and the bond. He also trusts you more then Ellie does. Ellie sounds like she does no want you interacting with Kimba is resorting to getting him out of the way. I would love to see a vid of this interaction.

 

[wolf0994]

Greycloud what about seperate cages in the same room? Do you think that would be a negative thing?

 

[greycloud]

It definitely could be tried but I do not separate established bonded pairs unless fighting occurs. I know we may not have the relationship with the bird we want but I think we need to respect the bond between the two.
By the wording of the first post he states they are in a large enclosure. I am wondering is this inside or out?

 

[mizithra]

It's a large (6' high x 4' wide by 2' deep) indoor cage. If I did decide to separate them temporarily, one would have to adjust to a much smaller cage (with outside of cage exercise). I feel badly that by trying to work with them, I have disrupted the generally agreeable dynamic that already existed.

 

[greycloud]

You may be surprised. I would just use positive reinforcement with both and lots of soft verbal praise. Try and pay attention to Ellie first. Baby steps and patience.

 

[wolf0994]

I hope to hear of good things to come

 

[leomacaw]

I have 5 greys (2 boys and 3 girls) and they are all caged individually. Their cages are next to each other. They will play with each other during the playtime. So far, there's not any problems arised.