Amazon likes me, but HATES my hands. Help?

[Dancake]

I have an ~8 year old orange winged amazon, I don't think he is an overly aggressive bird, I think he is mostly just a fearful bird. I adopted him when he was ~5, and have yet to be able to properly hand tame him no matter what I try. He (I at least think) really likes me, he screams as soon as I leave the room or go out of eyesight, he loves to get head pets, and he'll fly to the side of the room I went to if I went too far from him.
The problem is I really want him to be hand tame as well, but he is extremely afraid of hands, to the point where I believe his past owners could have possibly hit him or something. Not going to outright accuse them of anything, just a speculation.
I've recently had (kind of) a breakthrough with him, being able to step up on my hand about half the time I ask, but only when on a specific perch when his cage isn't in eyesight. He also likes to bite my hand sometimes while he's standing on it if I make any noise or accidentally move.
Biggest question is how (and if) I can get him to step up from his cage, I've tried clicker/target training, and he's gotten really good at it, but as soon as my hand gets involved he either runs or bites. Any type of advice for our situation is *greatly* appreciated! : )

 

[PrimorandMoxi]

It sounds like you are so close to him making that leap of trusting your hands.
Maybe you need to get him further away from or out of view his cage to work with him.

It is taking a while because maybe he was mishandled.
But no reason for him not to learn that you are the best companion ever.

My RLA was about seven and not mistreated, but neglected.
Now he is the sweetest, most tame and never bites...
It took about a year of us convincing him that everything we do is for his entertainment and nourishment.

Is that Titan up by your name?
Whoa dude-We need to see photos of him, I want to check out the coloring on his face!

 

[Dancake]

It sounds like you are so close to him making that leap of trusting your hands.
Maybe you need to get him further away from or out of view his cage to work with him.

It is taking a while because maybe he was mishandled.
But no reason for him not to learn that you are the best companion ever.

My RLA was about seven and not mistreated, but neglected.
Now he is the sweetest, most tame and never bites...
It took about a year of us convincing him that everything we do is for his entertainment and nourishment.

Is that Titan up by your name?
Whoa dude-We need to see photos of him, I want to check out the coloring on his face!

Thank you! <3 I truly believe that him and I can have an amazing bond in the future, maybe we'll just have to always train away from the cage for a good while before he trusts me enough to handle him around his cage.
And yes, that is him in my profile photo! I just took a few photos just for you : ) The lighting in the room isn't great and neither is my phone camera, sorry about that lol.

 

[PrimorandMoxi]

So that's an orange wing!?
Wow he is stunning.

With Primor I can stick my head in the cage and give him kisses scritches whatever. Somehow he is not territorial about his cage or me sticking my head in it.

I guess one thing we did was to get him involved in every aspect of home life so he knew he could trust us.

 

[texsize]

Welcome to the forum.
Love OWA. My first parrot was an OWA that was wild caught and never was very friendly.

sometimes you just have to live within the comfort zone of your individual bird.

My Mexican redhead amazon Luna (rescue bird) doesn’t like hands.
She likes me in her own way but if I want her to step up I have to use this old android tablet.
She steps right up for that but will only step up onto my hand if she crash lands somewhere she can’t fly away from.
Had Luna since Dec of 2017.
I have not worked with her to improve my bond with her because I want her primary bond to be with Merlin her cage mate.

 

[DonnaBudgie]

I have an ~8 year old orange winged amazon, I don't think he is an overly aggressive bird, I think he is mostly just a fearful bird. I adopted him when he was ~5, and have yet to be able to properly hand tame him no matter what I try. He (I at least think) really likes me, he screams as soon as I leave the room or go out of eyesight, he loves to get head pets, and he'll fly to the side of the room I went to if I went too far from him.
The problem is I really want him to be hand tame as well, but he is extremely afraid of hands, to the point where I believe his past owners could have possibly hit him or something. Not going to outright accuse them of anything, just a speculation.
I've recently had (kind of) a breakthrough with him, being able to step up on my hand about half the time I ask, but only when on a specific perch when his cage isn't in eyesight. He also likes to bite my hand sometimes while he's standing on it if I make any noise or accidentally move.
Biggest question is how (and if) I can get him to step up from his cage, I've tried clicker/target training, and he's gotten really good at it, but as soon as my hand gets involved he either runs or bites. Any type of advice for our situation is *greatly* appreciated! : )

I'm not sure if this would work but if you put your hands near your face when interacting with him maybe he would learn that they are a harmless part of the you that he likes.

 

[PrimorandMoxi]

I'm not sure if this would work but if you put your hands near your face when interacting with him maybe he would learn that they are a harmless part of the you that he likes.

I do this too.
I think because Primor trusted my face more it helped him to trust my hands.

 

[wrench13]

You are close! WOrk with him away from the cage, that will help.

 

[SailBoat]

Great recommendations above, just bring them together and you will begin a loving relationship for ever!

Know that Amazon's are social creators and want a bonded relationship! Open the bond and your Amazon will amaze you!

 

[PrimorandMoxi]

I'm not sure if this would work but if you put your hands near your face when interacting with him maybe he would learn that they are a harmless part of the you that he likes.

Here are a few ways that you might get your hands near your face.

 

[Dancake]

I have an ~8 year old orange winged amazon, I don't think he is an overly aggressive bird, I think he is mostly just a fearful bird. I adopted him when he was ~5, and have yet to be able to properly hand tame him no matter what I try. He (I at least think) really likes me, he screams as soon as I leave the room or go out of eyesight, he loves to get head pets, and he'll fly to the side of the room I went to if I went too far from him.
The problem is I really want him to be hand tame as well, but he is extremely afraid of hands, to the point where I believe his past owners could have possibly hit him or something. Not going to outright accuse them of anything, just a speculation.
I've recently had (kind of) a breakthrough with him, being able to step up on my hand about half the time I ask, but only when on a specific perch when his cage isn't in eyesight. He also likes to bite my hand sometimes while he's standing on it if I make any noise or accidentally move.
Biggest question is how (and if) I can get him to step up from his cage, I've tried clicker/target training, and he's gotten really good at it, but as soon as my hand gets involved he either runs or bites. Any type of advice for our situation is *greatly* appreciated! : )

!!AMAZING UPDATE!!

He's started stepping up from his cage, and he's climbing all over me without me even prompting it! And also has started flying to get on my shoulder when I go to leave the room!
Here's his current problems: occasional biting while on my hand, and the much lesser problem of him constantly beaking me. I wouldn't have a problem at all with the beaking if it wasn't for him doing it to my neck and ears, which y'know, is really sensitive and painful.
I can really see his sweetness starting to come out and I'm so proud of him! Still, any advice on preventing and correcting biting would be greatly appreciated!
Also, where would be a good place to start a thread updating on all of our progress?

(Ignore how messy my tv stand/desk is lmao, I'm in a bad mental state and don't have the motivation to clean up at the moment, I also closely supervise him and would never let him over there near all of those cords!)

 

[DonnaBudgie]

!!AMAZING UPDATE!!

He's started stepping up from his cage, and he's climbing all over me without me even prompting it! And also has started flying to get on my shoulder when I go to leave the room!
Here's his current problems: occasional biting while on my hand, and the much lesser problem of him constantly beaking me. I wouldn't have a problem at all with the beaking if it wasn't for him doing it to my neck and ears, which y'know, is really sensitive and painful.
I can really see his sweetness starting to come out and I'm so proud of him! Still, any advice on preventing and correcting biting would be greatly appreciated!
Also, where would be a good place to start a thread updating on all of our progress?

(Ignore how messy my tv stand/desk is lmao, I'm in a bad mental state and don't have the motivation to clean up at the moment, I also closely supervise him and would never let him over there near all of those cords!)
View attachment 52496

I would be VERY careful about having him on your shoulder if he has ANY tendency to be unpredictable and bite. Problem is that most Amazons (and other parrots) are somewhat unpredictable unless you can see their body language and you can't when he's on your shoulder. He could really mess up your face! I wearing a hoodie when my bird sits on my shoulder because she tends to nip my ears and neck and it does hurt.

 

[Dancake]

I would be VERY careful about having him on your shoulder if he has ANY tendency to be unpredictable and bite. Problem is that most Amazons (and other parrots) are somewhat unpredictable unless you can see their body language and you can't when he's on your shoulder. He could really mess up your face! I wearing a hoodie when my bird sits on my shoulder because she tends to nip my ears and neck and it does hurt.

Oh definitely, I completely agree! I don't necessarily *want* him on my shoulder at this point, he just decides to do it on his own. I never ask him to hop on my shoulder, he's just become fairly clingy to me already. Thankfully he hasn't tried to take a bite out of my face (yet, at least.)

 

[DonnaBudgie]

Oh definitely, I completely agree! I don't necessarily *want* him on my shoulder at this point, he just decides to do it on his own. I never ask him to hop on my shoulder, he's just become fairly clingy to me already. Thankfully he hasn't tried to take a bite out of my face (yet, at least.)

Birds always seem to try to go where they want to go. Shoulders are wonderful perches for them- for us, not so much! Heads are great too, but at least they can't hurt you too badly on top of your head.

 

[Dancake]

Just for reference, this is the biting I'm talking about. I usually offer to put him down gently immediately after he does it, but just for this recording I didn't do that and let him do it again so I could capture it. He does it immediately AFTER I give him the treat.

I don't notice any body language that leads up to it, he just stands there and seemingly randomly bites, what am i missing here? Amazons are so full of body language I feel like I'm definitely overlooking something, right?

Could the problem be me offering him down immediately and him thinking it's a good way to get what he wants? Problem with that is that if I keep him on my hand he just doesn't ever stop. I know it's not my thumb position because I've tried positioning my thumb in every way possible and he still goes for it equally. Is he just not fully ready to be stepping up right now? He seems very willing to step up, I never push on his chest or anything, just offer my hand and show him the treat first. Anyone have any ideas?

 

[PrimorandMoxi]

oh he is a big silly!
Even though they have clear body language I think the really smart ones are clever enough to hide it.
The only indication I see is striking.
-Did that draw blood?

Maybe I would shake my hand slightly just so he loses balance a bit?
(before he latches on with beak!!)

I do kind of think your thumb is right there for him.
what if you angle your hand slightly so your thumb is more tucked under.

though in the future your thumb is useful to keep him on your hand and not walk up your arm. But first you got to get him used to your hand.

Can you get him on your hand and move quickly away from safety of that perch?
What if he has a treat in his mouth?

 

[Dancake]

oh he is a big silly!
Even though they have clear body language I think the really smart ones are clever enough to hide it.
The only indication I see is striking.
-Did that draw blood?

Maybe I would shake my hand slightly just so he loses balance a bit?
(before he latches on with beak!!)

I do kind of think your thumb is right there for him.
what if you angle your hand slightly so your thumb is more tucked under.

though in the future your thumb is useful to keep him on your hand and not walk up your arm. But first you got to get him used to your hand.

Can you get him on your hand and move quickly away from safety of that perch?
What if he has a treat in his mouth?

He's never drawn blood from me before, surprisingly enough! He barely puts pressure on me when he bites, but more pressure than just beaking. He's a gentle boy, even when he's pissed haha. I've tried tucking my thumb under but he bites it just the same, I've noticed no difference, he just REALLY has it out for my thumbs. I can definitely go back to tucking my thumb again though! If he has a treat in his mouth he'll just strike with it still in his beak, he's really good at keeping things in his beak even while it's open! I can definitely try shaking my hand a little bit next time!

 

[Dancake]

Oh forgot to mention the moving away from the perch- moving my hand actually makes him worse unfortunately

 

[PrimorandMoxi]

Can you get him away from cage with a handheld perch?
I use a T-shaped perch with my Macaw when ornery and he cant even get to my hand.

Once away from cage he will hopefully look to you for security, safety, fun adventure...
But I wouldn't let him go up my arm to shoulder...

I think the fact that he is not breaking skin though says something?
When we were taming Primor he constantly drew blood.

 

[Dancake]

Can you get him away from cage with a handheld perch?
I use a T-shaped perch with my Macaw when ornery and he cant even get to my hand.

Once away from cage he will hopefully look to you for security, safety, fun adventure...
But I wouldn't let him go up my arm to shoulder...

I think the fact that he is not breaking skin though says something?
When we were taming Primor he constantly drew blood.

Actually we do already train out of eyesight from his cage! our room is separated into two different areas, with a wall with no door in between! Due to him flying to the other side of the room whenever I go out of eyesight, It's really easy to get him on his T-perch. It's out of view from his cage completely because of the wall, yet he still does this from the perch.

Weirdly enough, he's less bitey when near his cage I've realized. Never territorial over it either! I'm starting to think it's mostly that he just really doesn't like movement or noise while on my hand, and I forgot I left my tv on some ambient noise while training today. I'm guessing he wasn't a big fan of that mixed with my hand being slightly shaky from his weight.

I'm sure there's still other reasons for the biting, but he's on my other hand calm as can be while I'm typing this, and my thumb is even on his foot and he couldn't care less! He actually is only biting me right now when I try to return him to the cage lol, I'm stuck with him right now!

I really just wish I could predict him more, his bites always seem so random (mostly because I always back off when he's actually showing body language that says "no", so any bites that do occur are *seemingly* unprompted.)