BRAINSTORMING: Biting Parrots

[Blueridge]

I completely agree. When a parrot bites you, really any response is a good response for them. They only seek attention and negative attention is just as good for them. Parrots are weird, huh?

 

[MonicaMc]

If the reason isn't already readily apparent, reviewing the interaction to see why the bite occurred.

That's exactly it! Figuring out why the bite occurred and, if possible, a way to avoid getting bitten again in the future. What can we do differently to avoid the bite? Was there any way to determine that the bird was about to bite? Was it something we accidentally did that resulted in the bite? Or was there something in the environment that resulted in the bird biting?


Thinking about the situation and reviewing the events that happened so that we can better read and understand our birds, thus avoiding bites and creating a stronger relationship.

 

[ManuIki]

I received a hard nip last night when I was putting Pépe into his cage at bedtime. The first mistake I made was in getting him to bed much later than usual. He hates going to bed, and he'd fallen asleep on my tummy, so I let him stay there until Daddy came home late from work (yeah, we're THOSE pet owners — "Daddy's home!" We don't have kids, as you can probably tell.)

Pépe turned, squeaked, and nipped my finger as his body crossed the threshold into the cage, then did it again, fairly hard for him. He has never bitten me very hard, and still didn't draw blood or leave a mark. This one hurt, though.

I stupidly let out a surprised, aggravated "AAAH!" and left Pépe in his cage. Then I turned to my husband and said, thinking aloud, "Now I can't cover the cage, because he'll think of it as punishment. Maybe I shouldn't even close the door. It wasn't THAT bad. I shouldn't have yelled, that was foolish." (I often say things like this out loud to help my husband learn.)

I ended up leaving him in the cage (Pépe, not my husband), and we sort of hung around and behaved normally for a little while before covering the cage and making the usual "good night" sounds. We always softly tell him good night in Hawaiian and English, which calms him down and tells him it's sleeping time.

What I learned is what I already knew: Don't react! That it happened at bedtime added an extra element of "oops, I messed that up," because we didn't want that to be his last interaction with us that day.

And I need to get the poor bird to bed earlier. He was sleepy and cranky and didn't like being woken up and then told to go to sleep again right away. Also, he likes to stay up late, which is a topic for another post.

 

[Ginnybird]

Thank you! The myth that you just ignore the bite and give no reaction just kills me. It's true that we shouldn't give a big, animated reaction, as that could become a reward of sorts in and of itself, but allowing yourself to become a chew toy is both unnecessary and largely ineffective.

This is all kind of a relief to read because I just concluded on my own that the "ignore the biting" advice from my parrot behavior book wasn't working. My girl is young and seems to enjoy chomping different substances, including flesh, to strengthen her beak and test boundaries. (Those are the motivations as they "seem" to me -- who knows really?)

Now I dip my hand (if she's on it), say "Easy" in warning tone, and try to redirect her beak to a toy. If she is intent on flesh I take her to her perch (she's only in her cage to sleep) and walk away, keep my back turned to her for a while. So far this hasn't completely cured yet but it hasn't been long and it's improved things.

 

[Anansi]

It sounds like you're approaching it just right to me. Depending on the inherent stubbornness of your bird, it might take a while to get the behavior completely under control. But consistency in both the consequences of bad behavior and the rewarding of good behavior will eventually yield positive results.

 

[MonicaMc]

What I learned is what I already knew: Don't react! That it happened at bedtime added an extra element of "oops, I messed that up," because we didn't want that to be his last interaction with us that day.

I don't believe that "not reacting" is a very good idea. Sure, you don't want to reward the bird for doing this behavior, but at the same time, you don't want to ignore it.

Rather than not reacting, you should have tried to calmly get the bird off of you, then think about how to avoid the situation in the future by figuring out the cause of the bite.

From the sounds of it, you already know why it happened, so you may be able to better avoid another bite in the future.

This is all kind of a relief to read because I just concluded on my own that the "ignore the biting" advice from my parrot behavior book wasn't working. My girl is young and seems to enjoy chomping different substances, including flesh, to strengthen her beak and test boundaries. (Those are the motivations as they "seem" to me -- who knows really?)

Now I dip my hand (if she's on it), say "Easy" in warning tone, and try to redirect her beak to a toy. If she is intent on flesh I take her to her perch (she's only in her cage to sleep) and walk away, keep my back turned to her for a while. So far this hasn't completely cured yet but it hasn't been long and it's improved things.

Ginny, I fear you may have misunderstood the point of this thread. You're right, it's *NOT* about ignoring the bite, however, we aren't telling you to *GET* bitten, then correct the bird. Rather, this thread is about *NOT* getting bitten in the first place! If you will, an example.....


Bird is sitting on top of the cage, facing somewhat away from you. You quickly reach your hand up towards the bird to ask for a step up, startling the bird in the process. The bird turns around and bites you. Say this happens hundreds of times. Each time you reach up to ask for a step up, moving too quickly, the bird turns around and bites you. What has the bird learned? Any time they are on top of the cage and a hand reaches for them, they need to bite. The bird has now practiced this behavior multiple times, therefore it has been learned.

Now, lets say it's the same scenario. Bird is on top of the cage and you reach up to ask for a step up, startling the bird in the process. The bird turns around and bites you for the *FIRST* time. Lets say the first time you get bitten, you realize that you accidentally startled the bird, resulting in the bird. You think about the situation and how you might approach the bird differently. Now, lets say the second time you approach the bird, you go slowly and say "Hey Paulie, wanna step up?". The bird sees you, the bird hears you, and moving slower, the bird doesn't freak out. Knowing how to step up, the bird then steps onto your hand without biting. Lets say this is your approach every single time, and every single time the bird doesn't bite? What has the bird learned? To step up from their cage. No "cage aggression".





In other words, the longer a bird has to practice an undesired behavior, the harder it can be to change that behavior, and the more a behavior is ignored, the worse it may get. Just because a behavior has stopped doesn't necessarily mean that the bird has properly learned not to do the undesired behavior. There's this phenomenon called "learned helplessness", and that is that regardless of the outcome of the situation, the animal has no choice in the matter.

As in, if you have a screaming parrot and you continuously ignore the behavior without trying to figure out why the bird is screaming and try to encourage a desirable behavior over the screaming, then sure, one day the parrot might stop screaming.... but that doesn't mean that the bird is happy nor healthy. Physically, they might be healthy, but not mentally. Having a bird scream for hours upon hours, for days at a time... weeks, months, even years... and then simply stopping is not a happy bird. If you were to encourage a bird to forage, to play independently, give them plenty of exercise (flight!) and bathes and teach new behaviors, then this would be a bird that is more likely mentally challenged and happier than a bird that is bored out of it's mind and screaming for something.





I hope this makes sense.

 

[Moomoo]

our new little guy/gal gets upset and slightly nippy/chirpy when we reach our hands in to take him/her out, so the first thing weve tuaght 'em (had 'em for exactly a week now! 11/25/16) is how to climb down to a blue cement perch low on the door and to stay there while we open it! now when he/she wants out he/she just climbs down and sits on that perch, or if we want to take him/her out we tell him/her to get on to the perch as we tap on it and he/she quickly slides down and sits onto the perch! admittedly he/she playfully groom/nips which we tell him/her no now when he/she does it because the pressure would slowly become painful, so instead we give foot/beak toys and be consistent on the no hand nibbling rule! thus far, complete angel!

 

[Tami2]

Great Read, thank you for this

Anansi
Birds are very perceptive about body language, so I would move in such a way that my displeasure was clearly communicated. A more brisk, direct pace than usual on the way to the cage, with facial expression completely closed off and stern. No eye contact. (I found the body language to be important not only for the communication aspect, but also to differentiate this kind of trip to the cage from other times when it's not a timeout. Birds are good at making associations. They work it out.)


I have learned Levi’s cues and I do not get bit much anymore. However there has been a time here & there where I wasn’t paying close attention & get bit. That’s what I do. I tell him no & briskly walk him to his cage. Set my watch for 5 minutes before returning.

 

[Sunnyclover]

My new 4 month old nanday conure Finley was not biting from anger or scared at all but just whilst playing on his back. I kindly said to him "ouchies baby you hurt mommy" "gentle beak" and he somehow got it and bites softly after that has been said. I do have to remind him about 3 times a week and tell him "gentle beak" and he obeys and bites softly. How is this possible? I did the same with my sun conure (who has never actually bitten me in any kind of painful way) when he would bite a bit too hard while playing on his back also. Is it that Ollie told Fin in bird talk that it means foe him to not bite as hard? It's so awesome but also seems too good to be true. Thoughts?

 

[MonicaMc]

Birds can, and do, learn from each other. I'm not sure that learning not to bite is one of them, but I wouldn't completely doubt it, either.

 

[T00tsyd]

Just last night I got caught. Syd is usually pretty sweet and over the past year since he moved in we have had times when both of us have had to learn about biting. Last night was no different in my world from many other evenings.

Syd was on my shoulder, we had been preening his pins, flying, cuddling, etc and all I said was 'it's nearly bedtime are your ready for bed?' This is the usual precursor to our bedtime routine and at that point he always jumps onto my shoulder ready to go. Last night his immediate response was to lunge at my cheek and draw blood.

I have no idea what happened to cause it. I saw/heard absolutely nothing to give me any warning. I left him and went into another room to recover my equilibrium while he flock called his head off and instead of taking him to his sleep cage brought the cage to him. This morning once again I brought the sleep cage to his day cage to avoid a long transfer process. He seems quite happy but I am nervous all over again. No matter - back to square one again.... sigh!

 

[Anansi]

Not quite square one - or at least not necessarily - but I feel your pain. The one time that Maya bit me was when she experienced hormones for the first time. She went full Nosferatu on my thumb with absolutely no warning whatsoever.

It was definitely a setback in terms of trust on my part, but certainly not square one. Like Syd, she had the fundamental basics of how she is supposed to behave already laid down in her mind. Something may have temporarily disrupted that, but the foundation is still there.

Personally, I handled it by suspending Maya's shoulder privileges for a while until I felt confident she could be trusted there again. It's funny. We always talk about earning their trust, but the truth is that need for trust can run both ways. Interacting with our fids from a place of fear can be damaging to the established dynamic, so we have to be able to suppress our instinctive sense of self-preservation. Reminiscent of that childhood game of "No Flinching" where you get punched full force in the arm anytime someone gets you to flinch. Soon enough, you learned not to outwardly startle. (I grew up in one of the rougher areas of the Bronx, so childhood games often tended toward the infliction and receipt of pain. Don't get me started on "Hot Stick of Butter" or "Suicide Ball". Lol!)

Oh, and for what it's worth, I think that you handled the situation well. Hopefully it proves just an isolated incident rather than the beginning of a new behavior. I'd suggest going back over the incident in your mind again to make sure that there wasn't something that you might have missed. Just to be on the safe side.

 

[GaleriaGila]

Here's the No-Reward-Biting Liturgy here on Planet Rickeybird!

I have reduced biting to almost zero over the decades... not because I've changed the bird, but I have changed me. And a lot of that has involved giving up on a lot of my desires/expectations. After years of battle, I surrendered. I don't do stuff that gets me bitten. I NEVER do stuff that makes him mad... I don't touch others when he's out; I rarely try to get him to step up onto my hand first. Hand-held perch first, then hand. In some ways, I swallow my disappointment at having such a little monster for a pet, but he is what he is. I ALWAYS wear my hair down when he's on my shoulder, so all he can bite is hair. Really, I don't involve hands much... he doesn't like them. He seems to think the real ME is my head, perched on a weird moveable tree with questionable appendages.
Since he's fully flighted, the ONLY way I get him into the cage is to toss a chile pepper in and he flaps in after it. So food reward is a necessity for me. Time-out doesn't exist in the Rb's kingdom.
My Rickeybird is in some ways kind of a worse-case scenario, but we have it all worked out between the two of us.
Parrot-owners usually wind up determining their own personal comfort level with various behaviors. Over the years, I have sometimes been very embarassed/downhearted/sad about having a pet that was so... out of my control. But it is my choice to indulge and adore him.
Finally, I accepted that I have an amazing half-wild being who shares my life! It's magic enough for me!
Great thread!

 

[T00tsyd]

Yesterday I banned Syd from my person almost completely. He spent a few minutes on my wrist but I moved him off with a perch offcut and let him spend most of the day in his cage so I could observe him feeling more relaxed myself. The bite to my face at bedtime the night before left me quite jittery.

Bless him he spent most of his time repeating 'I'm sorry baby!' in a rather plaintive voice. I say this to him on the odd occasion when I misjudge a pin feather or he squawks for any reason - but he obviously knows how to pull on my heart strings. The rest of the time he was at the closest possible point in his cage looking at me with a confused and sad little eye, but I stuck to my plan and once more made the transition from day to sleep cages as short as possible. However he got his treat and bedtime song as usual (I know I'm crazy!) and I was feeling more confident by bedtime.

Keeping a distance seems to have been a good thing to redraw the boundaries. He's not up yet so I am considering today's plan of action and I feel shoulder privileges are on hold once more but we will go to our normal out of cage time today and see how things are. Fingers crossed!

 

[Tami2]

T00tsyd,

I totally understand how you are feeling. It’s a quandary for sure.
Even though Levi is treated like a true family member with all of the love, patience, understanding, respect, etc that comes with this. It’s difficult to comprehend why he still sometimes does obnoxious things. At times I’m scratching my head.

We have a safety gate at the top of our stairs and it’s one of his favorite perches.
Hubby screwed in an eye screw, so we can hang toys there for him. He likes to fly from the bedroom to the gate. But, once he’s there he can get territorial & possessive. Much to my chagrin, when I offer my hand to Step Up he lounges at me & tries to bite me. It’s bizarre to say the least. So, of course I don’t do that anymore. Ha. But, I’m puzzled by it.
I asked the Vet & she recommended offering him a treat. But, she didn’t answer my question as to why this behavior would happen. Of course his fave treat would get him to come without any incident.
Now, I tell him we’re going down & ask if he wants to join us. If not, I leave him there. But, the question remains, why does he do it in the first place?

I’ve come to realize that at times there will be, (no warning) behaviors they’ll exhibit that we’ll never understand. And because of this premise, he’s not allowed on my shoulder. He hangs on my forearm and is very content with that.

Good Luck and I’m very sorry he bit you and the trust is now on shaky ground.
I get it

 

[MonicaMc]

We have a safety gate at the top of our stairs and it’s one of his favorite perches.
Hubby screwed in an eye screw, so we can hang toys there for him. He likes to fly from the bedroom to the gate. But, once he’s there he can get territorial & possessive. Much to my chagrin, when I offer my hand to Step Up he lounges at me & tries to bite me. It’s bizarre to say the least. So, of course I don’t do that anymore. Ha. But, I’m puzzled by it.
I asked the Vet & she recommended offering him a treat. But, she didn’t answer my question as to why this behavior would happen. Of course his fave treat would get him to come without any incident.
Now, I tell him we’re going down & ask if he wants to join us. If not, I leave him there. But, the question remains, why does he do it in the first place?

He could be biting because he *enjoys* being there and doesn't want to move - so the vet is suggesting giving him a better reason to come down or step up than to stay, i.e. a treat.

 

[Tami2]

We have a safety gate at the top of our stairs and it’s one of his favorite perches.
Hubby screwed in an eye screw, so we can hang toys there for him. He likes to fly from the bedroom to the gate. But, once he’s there he can get territorial & possessive. Much to my chagrin, when I offer my hand to Step Up he lounges at me & tries to bite me. It’s bizarre to say the least. So, of course I don’t do that anymore. Ha. But, I’m puzzled by it.
I asked the Vet & she recommended offering him a treat. But, she didn’t answer my question as to why this behavior would happen. Of course his fave treat would get him to come without any incident.
Now, I tell him we’re going down & ask if he wants to join us. If not, I leave him there. But, the question remains, why does he do it in the first place?

He could be biting because he *enjoys* being there and doesn't want to move - so the vet is suggesting giving him a better reason to come down or step up than to stay, i.e. a treat.

Yes, I get that. But, he could just not step up & I'd say okay, stay. But, fluffing up his feathers and lounging. It's clearly over the top. Not necessary, IMHO.
I don't rule with an iron fist and his has a great deal of freedom.
Considering we have such a pleasant & positive relationship it just took me by surprise. I need to take Parrot Psychology 101 ... ha

Thanks Monica, appreciate your input :heart:

 

[DiscoDuck]

FWIW. I have experienced an empathetic nature of an Amazon and a Macaw. Its a bit difficult for me to feign my own behavior, So I currently take my boy into the "time out" category.

I am picking up on his growth and sense that my boy who isnt (probably) an adult yet. It feels like a subtle form of dominance.

My point to this thread is that Rudy interacts with me and the general public when we go for walks. He is getting more "bitey" or nips more frequently.. I don't have the vaguest clues on or if there are triggers. All I know is my ears are sometimes sore after a long walk.

Other times are, he doesn't want to be put into his house, my arm will get a "correction with a nip..

Sometimes he will pull at someones sleeves, ( seems to be sweaters) anyways...

More or less, he is a bird, he needs to keep the beak filed and that's what he does!?

 

[MonicaMc]

@Tami2 I get that! He must like that spot a *lot*! It's honestly great the way you work with Levi!


@DiscoDuck - Any possibility that he isn't comfortable on long walks? Or maybe something on those walks is triggering the behavior? It could be something far off, like another animal, a person, a vehicle, etc.

Going back in the cage - definitely need to find a treat that he only gets when Rudy goes back in!

 

[DiscoDuck]

yeah. Monica.. I would need to dive into the details due to Rudy and I's unique interaction. and copied my and your comment over into a Diary I created in the Macaw forum

I think we now have about 300 - 4 hr days of walking in his 1000 day life time. He is growing up, so the changes are very subtle.

I am leaning toward anytime he nips my ears, he gets taken off the high road (my shoulder) to my forearm.. (the low road)

he cant stick my ears in his mouth if he cant reach them!