Chewing problem :(

[Urgula]

Hello,

I have a Yellow naped male amazon of 6 years old (that's what the previous owner told me). I think he's older, but I juge from appearence.

I bough him 5 months a go with some chest feathers missing.

He costed me $500 which is strange. The owner sayed she just wanted to get rid of because he had a macaw which was rescued and needed attention and "one parrot is enough".

He has no obvious special needs.

The previous owner sayed the missing feathers is molt, but it did not look like. It looked like plucking.

She sayed he won't chew anything and wont scream, which is actially true.

Tihan (the amazon) does not chew anything and does not destroy toys.
I have made him a cardboard toy (just lots of 10x10 irregular shape cardboard on a wire), which he has destroyed completely. When I made him a second one, he did not touch it. I gave it away and made him another one with a different shape, some colours and balls on it, but it has been ignored.

I give him wood, but he plays with for 5 minutes and he's not interested after that.

I have 2 boxes of toys. I hide a set for a week, give him new ones, after a while, I exchange the toys. (On the pics you can see some examples, I have 2 boxes like that, most of them hand made and all of them are different.
The problem is that all of them remain untouched/unchewed.
He came with a wooden star and another big toy which are chewed, but I suspect those were chewed by the other owners macaw.

He usually sits on the back of my computer chair when I'm home and he tries to chew it. I don't let him destroy the chair. I give him toys instead, which he does not touch.
Today he was insisting onto chewing the chair. I did not let him (gently taking his beek off the poor chair and saying "no").
He stopped chewing the chair, but he immediatly took a big chunk of feathers on his back and started chewing them as he did with the chair.
I stopped him, but the feathers were destroyed and ugly looking.

The bald spot on his chest was not molt, but chewed feathers. If you take a look at the pics, you can see many of them are chewed in half.
He does not pull out the feather.

I have gave him egg shells and the white sea thing for calcium - it's ignored.
In canaries, when they chew their feathers, it's lack of sugar, so I've gave him sugar. It remains untouched.

The bald spot wass on one side of his chest, the other side was ok.
He grew out the feathers, but after that re-started chewing.


I give him baths regularly, but he enjoyed only the first ones. Now, when I give him a bath, he simply sits and waits for me to finish spraying him.
He's not acting like he dislikes it and he does not tries to move.

He also, takes naps all day and sleeps at night. Poop is normal. Diet has many variety of seeds, fruits, veggies and what he can get from the table (yes, I know it's bad, but I eat healthy and he will kill for sausages or human food. Portions are controlled of course). Alcohol, cherries, chocolate are banned from parrots diet)

He has learned 3 words since I got him, but he only speaks when a man is around because he hates them and he gets stressed in their pressence. He will attack any male.

If I wake him up and play with his toys, he will get exited and play, sometimes he'll make clicking sounds to pretend he's talking. But that will last no longuer than 20 minutes. After that, he'll just sit or take a nap.

I don't want him to get bald. He chews off his chest feathers, chews less the back feathers and sometimes, chews the tail feathers. It looks like frustration.

The previous owner sayed she took it to the vet and that Tihan is completely healthy. I sayed that if he's sick, I'll buy it anyway and get it to the vet, but she sayed there's no need and that he has been tested for everything.

Also, he acts like he's not allowed to move. He sits where I put him.
He moves arount the cage, but never comes to another place.
I left him sitting withoug food on the back of my chair for half a day. He was really close to the cage, but he did not move. The food was in front of him, but he did not come off the chair to eat. I've put him on the cage and he started eating like he did not eat in a week.
He can walk normally. I've put him on the grass outside, but he did't like it and he walked home without any problem.

How can I correct the "non moving" behaviour? Or it's normal?

So basically, my questions are:

1. How to stop him from chewing his feathers?
2. What do I do about his all day naps?
3. How to teach him that he can use the whole room rather than just the cage.
3. How I get him to talk? He only talks when angry. I want to talk him while happy.

Sorry this post is long. Please advice. I don't know what to do.

 

[JerseyWendy]

Hi there, and welcome to the forum.

What a pretty boy your Tihan is. I wouldn't take the previous owner's word for telling you he's had a health check and is completely healthy. If you can, take him to an avian vet and have him checked out thoroughly.

He certainly has a GREAT setup and MANY awesome toys! Perhaps you can get him some feather toys he could preen, so that he'll stop overpreening/plucking his own feathers? Just an idea...I've never had to deal with a plucking Amazon.

Also, how sure are you that Tihan is a boy? Is he banded? If so, is his band open or closed?

 

[Betrisher]

I've found that my Alexes won't chew cardboard. They like to chomp on celery, the bark of their perches, anything plastic, human flesh occasionally, they *love* metal chains and they really, really like chewing on my kids' polar fleece dressing gowns. I guess what I'm saying is, maybe you should try offering a whole lot of different textures to your friend and see what he likes. For example, you could try a coconut (I'm not sure whether the flesh is OK for birds, but they do love stripping the fibres off the shell). I keep meaning to buy a cotton mop head for my birds to chew. Others have suggested hanging an old phone book in the cage (mine love that). Drinking straws tied together and wooden clothespins (with the spring removed) might work. Another success I've had is letting my birds chomp on the plastic lid of the empty honey jar. They *love* honey and it's the thing I use to bribe them back into their cage. They also enjoy peanut butter in small quantities. I make them a foraging toy from a 2 litre plastic milk bottle with 1" holes cut in it at random. I fill the bottle with shredded paper (junk mail) and (this might sound odd) the yellow plastic bags that ramen noodles come in. I drop in the occasional treat (pasta noodles, little bits of ramen noodle, a peanut or two. This keeps the Beaks happy for ages, just demolishing the toy and ripping out the bits of stuff.

Another toy my Beaks like is the metal lid from a coffee tin. They just love anything shiny, so it struck me to offer them the tin-lid and they turn themselves into a pretzel, trying to grab it and peck it and bonk at it with their beaks.

I know I'm running on too long, but there's just one more thing I'd add. Your bird might have been neglected for a long time before you got him. I've not long acquired my Dad's Galah, which had been living in a too-small cage with*no* company, *no* toys and *no* food other than birdseed. He didn't know how to play or shred stuff or do much of anything that a well bird would do. Slowly, slowly he's learning to peck at things and just last night, for the first time, he chased a whiffle ball across the table. I'm lucky in that I've got Dominic (the Galah) right next to my Beaks and he can watch what they do. It has taken some months, but he's learned a great deal in that time. He is beginning to chew on his toys (not much, but a little bit) and has even begun to enjoy eating veggies (!!! I never thought I'd see the day!!!). So, take things slowly with your bird and, perhaps, don't overwhelm him with lots of toys. Just one or two might be a good start? I dunno... But watch him. See what he looks at and what tickles his fancy. And do, please, report back - we'd love to know how he gets on!

 

[henpecked]

First of all, welcome to the forum. loads of good info here in the older post in this section. Your also welcome to join our social group "bonding with your amazon" . I have been a bit remiss in keeping that group up to date but will do better in the future. IMO your #1 issue is the Barbering(plucking),chewing of feathers. This rare in amazons and is usually one of 3 things. Hens amazons will pluck their breast as a "brood patch" for incubating eggs. I don't think this applies to your situation. Feather mites will cause a bird to "dig: at their feathers to get rid of the bugs. Could be a possibility ,need a vet to check for mites. The 3rd possibility might be the answer to many of your questions and IMO is your issue. Stress, #1 , get what ever that is off the top of his cage. Clean all those toys out of his cage. Where is his cage located, move it closer to the center of activity in your home. He likes being near you, keep it close to where you are. From the photos i can see he trust you, your his mate, he stresses when your not around. If the vet can't find any bugs on him then stress is the issue. Fix what ever is causing that and the rest will fix itself. I'd love to help you with your amazon . Think about things that might be stressing him. Bad cage placement, too many toys crowding his cage, could be some crazy picture you have on the wall? who knows? Think about it and PLEASE post some more, we'd love to help.BTW don't spray water at him when giving him a bath, spray it up and let it fall on him.

 

[Urgula]

Thanx

> Perhaps you can get him some feather toys he could preen
Yeah, I have some of those, but they are also ignored.

> Also, how sure are you that Tihan is a boy? Is he banded? If so, is his band open or closed?
Hum... no idea about open/closed bands. I've never had a banded parrot.
When females want to mate, they slightly open their wings and lover their body while making funny noises.
When males want to mate... they just go to your shoulder and try to feed you and then to have some *sexy time*.

 

[Urgula]

Hmmm... Is plastic safe? He likes to unscrew my mascaras (still does not chew the tube), but I don't let him have them in the cage when I'm gone. I'm afraid of him eating plastic and dying.

He also loves to rip the buttons of my shirt or chew my clothes.
I thought about sacrificing an old shirt and putting lots of buttons on it to rip off, but I don't really want to encourage him to ruin my good clothes since I may bring him to work in future...
Is it safe to let him play with plastic while alone? It's colourfull, can they eat that?
I may put some buttons on a big furry leather peace in his cage if it's safe...

 

[mrgoogls]

plastic is fine. birds are smart and know whats food and whats not. I agree with just trying new things. and maybe smaller toys? he might be intimidated or doesn't know what to do with big toys. if cooper's toy is to large for him he freaks out, mind you he is a smaller bird. also cooper isn't a huge wood chewer, but he LOVES balsa and yukka wood. so maybe try some soft wood? or cooper also likes cotton socks. or any fabric really but that's what I make toys out of. just plain white cotton socks(just opened and brand new) and teach him to use some foraging toys. cooper used to not use toys at all but now he loves his toys. you just have to find out all of his favorite things. and once you get him playing he should be occupied and not chew his feathers

 

[Urgula]

Hello and thanx

Feather mites will cause a bird to "dig: at their feathers to get rid of the bugs.

Are those visible by the human eye? I have visually inspected him for bugs and there none.
I'll get him to vet, since he sleeps all day, which is not that normal I think.

#1 , get what ever that is off the top of his cage. Clean all those toys out of his cage. Where is his cage located, move it closer to the center of activity in your home.

Hm... I've put those up to cheer him. It was no big difference when the cage was almost empty.
I know it's currently too cluttered.

It's not a good idea to put him in the center of the action, since I have a daycare at home.
I had baby lovebirds in my living room, but had to take them off because they started to kill each other.
Once back to my bedroom, everything was back to normal. One bird got his fingers chewed off and died (I was not home at that moment and the dacare guardians didn't notice it)

I'm always at my bedroom while home, so he gets about 8 hours of attention per day (the rest I sleep and work).

When I'm home Tihan is nice. When I'm not, he will accept a treat from somebody who get him out of the cage. He will finish the treat and then bite badly.
If he's on a chair at that moment, he will wait for someone to come closer and will bite and hold.
Once, the "prey" is liberated from "the Dragon" (my family calls him that way), he will laugh and say "how are you?" repeatedly.
It did happen once that I came home and Tihan was waiting me in the kitchen, since my family got him out, but could not touch him to put back to the cage.

They will still come to talk to him and feed him treats during the day. They will not touch the cage. If I forget to close it and Tihan is out, they will not come to cheer him. He attacks.

He likes being near you, keep it close to where you are. From the photos i can see he trust you, your his mate, he stresses when your not around. If the vet can't find any bugs on him then stress is the issue. Fix what ever is causing that and the rest will fix itself. I'd love to help you with your amazon . Think about things that might be stressing him. Bad cage placement, too many toys crowding his cage, could be some crazy picture you have on the wall? who knows? Think about it and PLEASE post some more, we'd love to help.BTW don't spray water at him when giving him a bath, spray it up and let it fall on him.

I've tried to switch cage placements. Pretty much whatever I do he just waits me to finish and acts like he's not interested.
He did had a clean cage (I know now it's cluttered now). I put all that there hoping something will change.
I'm on vacations, so he's not using it right now, but I will clean it. He will 'ask' for food, water and toilet, so he's not in the cage.
I distract him if I notice him touching his feathers, I can't do that if he's in the cage.

I got him with the chest feathers in that state. When I bough him he was grayish and stinky (he did chew his feathers at that moment). I though he was not 6 but near 40 and that colour was normal.
I take my birds everywhere, so once in the shower, he was talking and being happy. He stinked worse because he was wet, so I've shampooed him. He got bright green and stopped smelling. It also helped with the plucking, he re-grew almost everything. (I know shampoo can leave residue, but you could see dirty water running off him. I had to shampoo him twice in a row for the water to be transparent)
One day I got home and he was like the picture show. Family says everything was as usual.
Today I saw the angry chewing because I didn't let him destroy the chair, but it was really weird.

I also got him a cleaning solution: Bird Bathing: Avian Solution Daily Bath Spray for Birds at Drs. Foster and Smith
It gets him clean, but it stincs like cleaning solution used to clean public bathrooms.
It does nothing for the plucking. Maybe there's anything else that I can spray him with?

Also, why I should not spray him directly, but spray on top?
The first time I've sprayed him, it was directly and he got very happy and talking his new words.
Now he ignores it no matter how I spray him.

I will give him other kind of toys as suggested by Betrisher, maybe it will help.

I have the impression that he playes with a toy once and after, gets bored and don't want it any more. Is it possible?

 

[Urgula]

and maybe smaller toys?

No, the cardboard thing was huge and he loved it.
I have some small ones, but he's not interested.

he LOVES balsa and yukka wood

At the pet stores / online they don't really specify which wood the toy is made from.
I've searched the forum, but I can't find the wood info at the moment.
Do you buy online? Can you link me the shop you buy wood from?

teach him to use some foraging toys

I made something similar to this. It was also ignored.
I've put threats in it, and while I was feeding him, I took threats out from the toy. After a while of doing that, I put it back to the cage.
It's stil lignored.
Should I get some stuff that you have to figure out how to play with like here? I'm not sure if he'll play with that since he does not play at all.

 

[Urgula]

I went to the vet today :smiley2:

I got Tihan to the vet today.

If someone tries to sell you an amazon, with cage and toys for 500 bucks, it's not normal and you probably should not get that 'good' deal.
The prices of the zons are 900-1500 (according to the internet) and only the cage will cost you about 500 bucks.
I thought the seller was honest and that she really did not had time for him... I was an idiot!

Apperently, he's not a yellow naped, but some kind of mutant. He's something between a double-yellow-head and yellow naped and may had some blue fronts in the family. However, the vet sayed that my parrot definitly should talk like crazy and it's not normal that he stays quiet all the time.

He also sayed Tihan obviously not breathing correctly and told me some very scarry stories of birds passing chlamidia to humans.
He did some blood-tests and a chlamidia test and I will get the results this week.

As some of you sayed, it's not normal for an amazon to pluck his feathers. It's normal for lovebirds, macaws, etc, but not for the amazons.

Tihan chews his feathers on a side of his chest and there's a well delimited pattern. You can clearly see a diagonal line on his chest which divides the plucked and unplucked part. He sayed that when the amazons do that, it's because they may get a sic organ which hurts. Basically, he will chew his feathers at the place where it hurts.

If it was stress or bugs, he would pluck all the chest/body.
This means the probability of Tihan being sick is about 75%.
I just hope it can be cured and he's not dying. ='(

He also recommended the following DVD if somebody is interested.
He says it's brilliant:
Captive Foraging: The Next Best Thing to Being Free by Dr. M. Scott Echols - Bird video tapes and parrot DVDs from Avian Publications.

 

[henpecked]

Your vet has seen your bird and i have not, i don't see any signs that he's not a Yellow Nape, surely no sign of DYH in him. However none of that really matters. Did the vet check for mites? You would need a magnifying glass to see them. Most internal organ problems are caused by issues resulting from lack of Vit A in their diet over a long period of time. IMO even 6 yrs of sunflower seed diet wouldn't bring that on at this age, maybe an issue later but he's pretty young for all that.I'm NOT a avian vet and have never "seen" your bird. I'd go with what the vet says, but check for the mites.The pattern of barbering that you noticed might be because that's the area he can reach. Hope you can find the problem and get it fixed. Please keep us "in the Loop" , keeping you both in our thoughts.

 

[Urgula]

Your vet has seen your bird and i have not

No worries, I was just sharing the info the vet provided. I've googled for amazons and he looks like a yellow nape to me. The vet says he's not fully, that his parrents was DYH and YN.

i don't see any signs that he's not a Yellow Nape

He has a yellow front also, and some blue feathers that my camera does not catch, but I don't care he's a mutation. He's 'pretty'.

Did the vet check for mites?

Yes, he did. It's not mites.

internal organ problems are caused by issues resulting from lack of Vit A in their diet over a long period of time

You can check that by your self. Parrots throat is a veritical shape, like this -- > ()
On the throat, they have 'theets'. If they're short and deteriorated, it's lack of vitamin. On Tihan, they're long.
I'm not sure if it's clear, I don't know the right terms in english. The vet speaks french and I can't remember the terms, since it's not my first leanguage.

I also don't know the exact age of Tihan. He can easily be 30.

The other owner sayed the following lies:
1. the bald patch is molt (which it's obviously not, I just thought it's stress plucking, didn't know that it's not usual on amazons).

2. She got him to the vet and the vet confirmed he's 6. We all know it's not possible to determine the age of a bird once it has reached maturity.

3. The low price is because she does not have time. If you check kijiji (Canadian eBay), there's lots of aras and amazons that people don't have the time to care about, many older than 6 and the price is MUCH higher for parrot and even more higher if it comes with cage.

The pattern of barbering that you noticed might be because that's the area he can reach.

He can reach all his chest (saw him cleaning his feathers)
It's also not stress barbering, since he takes various naps during the day.
Apperently, he has respiratory problems, which may explain the naps, but the pattern of barbering is too defined, which is not normal.


I'm kinda confused.
I'm angry becauseIf I summarize the money that I payed for Tihan and the money I've payed today to the vet, I realise that I could get a baby amazon which will bond for life, have less problems while learning tricks/words and with which I would not have this kind of problems.
If I add the money I'm going to spend on the treatment that Tihan *may* receive, I could get a baby macaw...
Also, the dishonest person would not get away with her lie!

On the other hand, I love Tihan and don't want him to die and if I can 'cure' him, it's worth the money.

 

[henpecked]

Once again ,thanks for giving a bird in need a good home. I hope you and the vet can find a cure. Today is "Vet" Day for us, we have a rehomed amazon with cancer, she goes every Thursday at 830 AM . It's been that way for 18 months. Like you we love her and want what is best, it's just one of those things.

 

[Urgula]

okay... I've got the blood tests results and it's even more confusing.
The results are 'prerfect' as the vet says. The vet got me scared with all the chlamidia stuff, but he called almost excusing himself saying my bird is healthy.
I wanted to get an Xrays for Tihan, but the vet says it's really not necessary. He suggested antidepressants, but he also warned me he don't usually prescribe antidepressants for birds unless they bite their skin.
I'm going to get another vets opinoion once I get the labs result since he was 75% sure yesterday that Tihan is dying and such drastical change of opinion does not provide any reason to trust.
However, since he vet sayed me it's depression issues and it was early on the day, I took Tihan shopping to the pet store (my birds always get super exited when going somewhere where's lots of shiny colourfull stuff). He didn't pick any toy and was "frozen" all the time, but he was agressive to the people who was wearing white or green "Doctor" clothes. He was also agressive to an old gentelman who went to talk to him. he almost got bitten, but I was faster.
When we just entered the pet store, he started talking and cuddling (the same behaviour as he had at the vet). After he tried to bite "Doctor" people and the old gentelman.
I don't think I will get him into a pet store for about a year.
After I've got him to a dollar store and he was happy, he was talking his new words (all in russian) and he has pick up 1 toy! It's a cheap green bracelet.
He saw a man and he went back to "Hello, how are you", which is an insult for him, but once there was no males, he spoke his russian words again. One toy is not a lot, but I'm verry happy

I've also got him a perch from the pet store which can be fixed to the cage and it's avery interesting shape, but he totally hates it. Each time he sees it, he "freezes".
I'm not going to return it (i't costed me 40 bucks instead of 90. The owner of the store made me a discount 'cuz I took my pet to the pet store). I will put the perch away until he gets well.

However, he has destroyed his second toy today. It's awesome.
Also, I've noticed he 'bites' violed stuff and will never touch orange.
Green is a favoride, red, yellow and blue it's ok. It's possible or it's just my impression?
My quakers and my current lovebird never cared about colour.

 

[ShellyBorg]

I got a "cheep" Zon off of CL about 3 months ago. $150 with a cage, cage was to small and when I moved him to a bigger one he freaked. Its been months of having cages side by side, but he is so afraid of the new cage he will not switch over. Mine will not play with toys at all still. He has 3 in his cage he is vary careful to never touch. I have also put a lot of money into vets and new cages and play stands.

A younger baby would have been nice, but I love watching the little improvements Danny makes every day. I feel good knowing that I am helping Danny go from the scared zon eating nothing but seed, to a healthier parrot that is gaining confidence daily, slowly, but daily. It sounds like you have a great bond. As you learn each other and grow with each other it will deepen.

 

[MikeyTN]

I would have to say by getting a younger baby does not insure you that they won't pluck if something does happen! Birds pluck for many many different reasons and once they start, it's a hard process to stop! Like Willie my B&G macaw, he NEVER chews on his feathers until I had them clipped. Then the chewing started on his wings! In which I regret everyday that I ever clipped them to begin with. I've had Willie for 10 years so I know what he do and don't. I clipped him after the first year, the reason was because we were living in a condo at that time and we go in and out with the dog that wants outside all the time. Willie flew to me several times during that period and tried to take off when the door was open so I clipped him. Like henpecked suggested, try to find the root problem and correct it. I know it's not easy! Dixie my LSC too, she barbers, but I take that much better then what she used to do which was plucking. That's how I got her but I changed her condition tremendously and she's much happier being with us then her previous home which was in a dark dingy basement with no windows stuck in a laundry room. She have since stopped plucking, but I couldn't stop her from barbering. We've had her for 8-9 years and that's never stopped. I love them regardless if they pluck or barber. That's all it matters to me.

 

[Betrisher]

I think company can play a part in rehabilitating a rescued bird. By that, I mean the company of other birds. My Dominic has learned a great deal through watching my Alexes playing and foraging. I'm quite sure he would still be leaving his toys strictly alone, only he's watched the Beaks tear things apart and has copied them.

I'm not saying you should get a second bird, only that avian company can make a difference. Do you have any friends who own birds that might visit?

 

[Urgula]

I have a lovebird, which makes the company. Tihan does not like other birds very much and can attack. The lovebird is actially bald and crazy, because he was kept in a small cage for a long time, so he's not a great example. I don't know anyone with birds for a visit. He din't really react to the other birds while in the pet store anyway.

Would you give antidepressants to a parrot? The vet sayed they exist for birds. I was never able to stop my lovebirds plucking.

I got Tihan a toy yesterday, he has chew off the elastic band. I've put the beats back together, but he's again not interested in anything :S

 

[Pajarita]

Well, for one thing it's not true that zons don't pluck or barber. I got one that did and have one (a very old one with severe liver malfunction) that barbers them. People talk about mites causing birds to pluck but I've gotten lots of plucking birds and none of them had mites (mites are actually VERY rare in indoor birds and, when they have them is because they've been in contact with a bird that has been outdoors).

I would not worry about him not moving much from a perch because zons are perch potatoes. Mine are all flighted but the only ones that actually fly from one end of the room to the other are the wild-caught - the captive bred could fly but would rather climb and walk to wherever they want t go. But the napping all day is worrisome. The only one I had that did that died from liver failure from aflatoxin poisoning (I suggest your vet does a bile acid test on him because it's the only way to find out if his liver is working right and test for Pacheco -very common in zons). And an X-Ray would show if his liver or his heart are enlarged so they are not completely useless, either.

I would use full spectrum lights (CRI higher than 94 and Ktemp closest to 5500 but, if you can't find any, get lower rather than higher). I would do a detox treatment on him (Aloe Vera detox formula with extra milk thistle extract in his water) and put him on all fresh food with low protein, just in case it's his liver.

And no, just because you paid $500, it doesn't mean there is something terribly wrong with the bird. I paid only $100 for a young, healthy male YNA that had been abused by his second owner (bird was kept at a human schedule, got hormonal, bit the man and he retaliated by punching him which made the bird hate humans so he became very aggressive).

Get yourself a clean catalog (not read), roll it up and stick between the bars of his cage - my zons love to chew on rolled up magazines.

 

[MikeyTN]

Full spectrum lights have been tested and they actually serve no purpose!