Getting a baby vs. Adopting!

[Matilda]

I think adopting a rescue parrot is a lovely thing to do. I have several re=homed parrots and they've grown comfortable with my family over time. They've already been given up. Better to give them a home than let them stay in a rescue or the shelter forever.

 

[MikeyTN]

For me I started out as a breeder and I still breed some now days. But I give all of them thr choice to bring back their baby if they decide they no longer want them. Then I would rehome them accordingly to specific household. Most of our birds are adopted or rescued. Raising the chicks is what helps me to keep it going cause some people don't have the grasp of how expensive things get. The sale of the baby birds is what keeps it going. But I also teach them about bird responsibility and they can email, text, call me if they have any questions or concerns. Like it was said in one of the post, how did that rescued/adopted bird you got came from? They were bred! If anyone mention cats and dogs being bred to be captivity animals then that's a wrong way to look at cause they want to roam free and explore. But we kept them leashed or fenced in for their safety, same goes for clipping wings! I have done this for over 16 years to know better. I can go on and on about this but I'll leave it be....

 

[JerseyWendy]

For me I started out as a breeder and I still breed some now days. But I give all of them thr choice to bring back their baby if they decide they no longer want them. Then I would rehome them accordingly to specific household. Most of our birds are adopted or rescued. Raising the chicks is what helps me to keep it going cause some people don't have the grasp of how expensive things get. The sale of the baby birds is what keeps it going. But I also teach them about bird responsibility and they can email, text, call me if they have any questions or concerns. Like it was said in one of the post, how did that rescued/adopted bird you got came from? They were bred! If anyone mention cats and dogs being bred to be captivity animals then that's a wrong way to look at cause they want to roam free and explore. But we kept them leashed or fenced in for their safety, same goes for clipping wings! I have done this for over 16 years to know better. I can go on and on about this but I'll leave it be....

Michael, you opened up another venue here...dog breeding. What about "designer dogs?" That applies to parrots these days, too. :54:

...I won't even get started because I KNOW my fingers will cramp up from writing half a book, or more... :52:

 

[Featheredsamurai]

As of right now I woulld never give up my birds if they had the chance to live in the wild(well, Rosie wouldn't even be able to survive and Kenji has no idea how to fly LOL). I don't think I could live without them in my life

BUT

if I could go back in time, and change the world I would make it so parrots never became pets in the world we live in today. The pet trade has been so destructive to the wild parrots

 

[GaryBV]

This has turned out to be a very interesting thread... I'm really glad it was started although I initially thought it was a landmine. One thing I have noticed about this site is I think I have a couple of minutes free so I log on and look and somehow I look up and 2 hours have gone by :O !!! It's like a black hole for time lol. I'm learning a lot, and seeing different perspectives, and that is valuable.

 

[Kalidasa]

Fascinating thread. I've always believed they should be wild, but here they are. The wild numbers hopefully will be strengthened. And as far as the captives, evolution never stops. Captive birds, thru quality breeding, will over time adapt to their circumstances, and evolve along slightly different lines than their wild cousins. They will evolve to live with us, and thrive.
I also believe there will have to be a safe way to disable the breeding urge in pet birds not used for breeding. Perhaps a minimally invasive laser procedure to spay/neuter. As with dogs and cats, it would make a calmer, less frustrated companion. A lot of plucking and aggression issues could be prevented this way, and cause less re-homing as well.

 

[RockysMom]

ok let me put my 2 cents in lol as far buying a baby I have 2 parrots I bought as babies Rocky and Shamrock , Opey and Smokey are both rescues , I'am leaning more towards adopting a rescue bird these days but I would never give up any of my birds and none of my birds would survive in the wild , they are use to being out of their cages every day and getting fed and lots of human interaction , the only time they are in their cages is when no one is at home to watch them and when it's time to go to bed

 

[sssaucey]

I also watched and enjoyed Parrot Confidential. After watching I really second guessed my reasoning for wanting a large macaw. It had me thinking about when people say you shouldn't cage birds together if you want the bird to be bonded to you, but than I thought well I'd much rather a happy bird that gets to experience interaction with it's own kind(or similar species) than having the bird be sexually bonded to me. Maybe we could still enjoy having our birds around us while also letting them enjoy a true flock life.

I understand with some birds they truly no longer enjoy (or never enjoyed) the company of other birds, but when getting young birds or even "older" birds that don't show aggression/fear, should we force them to live with only humans as company? This is just my interpretation/thoughts going through my head. I still plan on having a macaw in my life at some point however I may go about it in a different way than I originally planned.

 

[khaiqha]

I have lots of random thoughts I'd like to share.

- First, whether or not something is offensive is determined in the eye of the beholder. If you don't think something is offensive, saying it isn't offensive doesn't mean it didn't offend anyone. Prefixing something with "no offense" is as about as useful as starting with "I'm not racist but..."

-Secondly, part of the reason North Carolina Parakeets went extinct was because they were caught en masse for the pet trade. People didn't bother breeding them because at the time it was just easier to catch them, kinda like keeping all parrots in America before the import ban.

-Thirdly I think breeding parrots is going to be a neccessity if we want to keep them around. Wild animals are going extinct. I believe we should have conservation efforts but realistically it's a losing fight. I would rather find a way for animals to coexist with us than see them gone forever.

-Finally, I think if we want to improve the quality of care pet parrots recieve than we need to change the culture of pet keeping. If there is one thing I could change it would be the amount of research people do before getting an animal. People spend more time deciding on what phone they're upgrading to than how to take care of the animals they want.

 

[GaryBV]

Hi Khaigha, you could be correct that part of the reason the Carolina Parakeet is extinct is because of the pet trade, but I don't believe that was the main reason. They were seen as pests and farmers didn't take kindly to them flocking into the fields to help themselves to food crops for dinner, and the Carolina Parakeet had the unfortunate habit of when one of them was hurt that the other's would come back to help it, and thus, were better targets. Also the feather trade was HUGE and they had beautiful colors and feathers. Last but maybe not least, they also were eaten, just like Passenger Pigeons. I wish they had bred them, I think of it as a mortal sin for any animal to go extinct because of human activity and actions. I most certainly do not believe that conservation is a losing fight, it might be for certain animals, especially large ones that require a large territory, but there is a lot we can do as individuals, as a people and nation, to safeguard our wildlife.

 

[torrap]

I have lots of random thoughts I'd like to share.

- First, whether or not something is offensive is determined in the eye of the beholder. If you don't think something is offensive, saying it isn't offensive doesn't mean it didn't offend anyone. Prefixing something with "no offense" is as about as useful as starting with "I'm not racist but..."

Thank you for your thoughts khaiqha,
I knew the issue I am going to raise is not going to be liked by some members of this forum. It shouldn't be offensive to anybody to talk about or to listen to someone who has something controversial to say, I think.
I was inviting people to talk about it and had no intentions to go after anybody.
I have a strong opinion about this issue, and I am perfectly fine with other people having 180 degree opposite view from mine. I am not going to get upset and offended by them saying what they have to say.
Maybe we wouldn't have such a bad racial issues in this country if we could hear more people say "I am not racist but....". In the discussions minds are changed sometimes. Instead people are afraid to talk about it and keep it to themselves.
Well, I am late to work now............ ....better go.
I hope I didn't offend you.......

 

[Birdman666]

The way I see it is, people are going to do it unless the law forbids it. The appeal of exotic pets will always be there - not just parrots but also tigers, alligators, bears, monkeys.

And if the law isn't enforced, or is lightly enforced, they will do it anyway...

What has to change is people's attitudes. A sense that you are entitled to walk around with a tiger on a gold leash because you have money and want one...
IS JUST SO WRONG IN SO MANY WAYS!

 

[Birdman666]

... if you want the bird to be bonded to you, but than I thought well I'd much rather a happy bird that gets to experience interaction with it's own kind(or similar species) than having the bird be sexually bonded to me. Maybe we could still enjoy having our birds around us while also letting them enjoy a true flock life.

You never want a bird, particularly a large macaw, and most particularly a dominant male large macaw, to think of you as a bird mate...

Yes, pair bond behaviors apply, but you absolutely should not allow them to overbond to that extent...

You want to be the "parent bird." The teacher. The nurturer. The protector. The one the bird looks to for guidance in confusing situations...

NOT THE BIRD MATE! MATE AGRESSION IN LARGE TOOS, MACAWS, AND AMAZONS ESPECIALLY, IS VERY REAL!!!

Trust me, you don't want to go there!

 

[Birdman666]

Hi Khaigha, you could be correct that part of the reason the Carolina Parakeet is extinct is because of the pet trade, but I don't believe that was the main reason. They were seen as pests and farmers didn't take kindly to them flocking into the fields to help themselves to food crops for dinner, and the Carolina Parakeet had the unfortunate habit of when one of them was hurt that the other's would come back to help it, and thus, were better targets. Also the feather trade was HUGE and they had beautiful colors and feathers. Last but maybe not least, they also were eaten, just like Passenger Pigeons. I wish they had bred them, I think of it as a mortal sin for any animal to go extinct because of human activity and actions. I most certainly do not believe that conservation is a losing fight, it might be for certain animals, especially large ones that require a large territory, but there is a lot we can do as individuals, as a people and nation, to safeguard our wildlife.

WHAT HE SAID. THAT WAS MIS-INFORMATION... this is closer to the truth. They were agricultural pests...

Same thing that is happening on some levels to the Red Fronted Macaws and the Blue Throats in Bolivia. Their natural food sources were destroyed to make way for new farms. The birds have nothing to eat but the farmer's crops. The farmer needs his crops... so the birds get shot.

Until there are on the verge of extinction.

 

[SandyBee]

Oh my

I watched parrot confidential for the second time last night since huuby wasn't home on the original air date.

Unfortunately there is no easy answer, as long as there is demand people will supply.

Our captive parrots cannot survive in the wild, my amazon is 36 where would he find his nutriberry and warm dinners? LOL Also our captive parrots live longer lives.
The truth of the matter is any parrot currently captive will need homes where they are loved and their human to provide the best they can for them. We should not feel guilty for this, this cycle was started years ago.

That being said, breaking the cycle has to be a priority.
Laws need to target a specific place in the cycle to be effective and they must be heavy handed and enforced. Such as what they have done with import laws in North America. Very few parrots are smuggled in anymore because of the difficulty.

This is where the breeders come in, they have helped to curb wild caught coming to North America by meeting demand. Now if we can place strict laws on breeding and educating we might make some dents there, breeders to go to mass markets and pet stores should not be allowed. Breeders should only be able to breed and sell x number per year, screening of homes must have a protocol and an action plan if they no longer can keep the parrot.
Breeding for conservation and/or release should garantee those parrots will never be pets.

But the sad fact is it's not only north America, emerging markets as countries become more affluent is a huge issue and they need to adopt the same laws before it changes.
So now we have even more wild caught going in to the markets and the conditions are worse, here in North America you see abuse/neglect but you also see a lot of good gaurdians. In emerging markets they don't have the avian vets, the market is supplied by smuggler who wild catch and the problem will get worse.

Ok I could go on, but that';s my soap box for the moment

 

[sssaucey]

Birdman I agree completely, it may not have been typed out correctly haha

I would never want to create that type of bond with a bird, it only ever leads to other issues.

I'm just saying for me, it made me think about different ways of possibly keeping larger birds in a more natural way. Well natural as being in captivity can be.

 

[torrap]

You never want a bird, particularly a large macaw, and most particularly a dominant male large macaw, to think of you as a bird mate...

Yes, pair bond behaviors apply, but you absolutely should not allow them to overbond to that extent...

You want to be the "parent bird." The teacher. The nurturer. The protector. The one the bird looks to for guidance in confusing situations...

NOT THE BIRD MATE! MATE AGRESSION IN LARGE TOOS, MACAWS, AND AMAZONS ESPECIALLY, IS VERY REAL!!!

Trust me, you don't want to go there!

OMG, you took the words out of my throat!!!!
That is exactly what I want to scream out.
People take a bird in their house and treat their parrot like it's a cat or a dog. I am guilty of this myself......
That is exactly why I say ........ THEY BELONG TO THE WILD!
I would never allow myself to bond with my birds like I would bond with a human. I live alone and like their company. I like them a lot, ....BUT..... I would not think twice before I give them away if I know they are going into a better place for them. This being said.....I would do it BECAUSE I like them. If I could reverse the events I would rather have them born in the wild. Birds need to bond with birds, and humans need to bond with humans (even I find it difficult lately for myself)....That is my point exactly!
I know both of my birds are in the better home than they were before. It gives me some level of comfort, and that is exactly why I took them in. I am very lucky because they are super sweet and funny. I don't know if I could take a "difficult" bird into my house. That is exactly why I was stressing in my original post how I feel about these people who do it. They are pure angels.

 

[Birdman666]

You never want a bird, particularly a large macaw, and most particularly a d
That is exactly why I say ........ THEY BELONG TO THE WILD!

I would never allow myself to bond with my birds like I would bond with a human.

If I could reverse the events I would rather have them born in the wild. Birds need to bond with birds, and humans need to bond with humans (even I find it difficult lately for myself)....That is my point exactly!

Well, speaking only for myself...

My birds are almost toddler like. ESPECIALLY my greenwing. We have an almost parent child relationship. That bird is a fixture on my arm and/or shoulder, and she goes out with me a lot. She is MORE bonded than a dog or a cat, if anything... And I love her dearly. Again, this was a bird that came to me as a rescue, and hadn't been handled in 8 years when I got her. I wouldn't deny them the bond. I just make it clear that I am not your mate. I am your friend and protector.

My CAG is fully cognitive and speaks conversationally at times, and that was a bird that was raised from an egg. (He is the offspring of confiscated breeders.) My Lilac Crowned is bonded to my CAG... I would never in a million years allow those two to be separated. I also raised my red front from an egg. And my red lored and I have been through hell and back together.

These birds are members of my family. And have been treated as such from the day they arrived. Three of my four pair bond birds, are bonded to me. But they can be handled by anyone. (i.e. they have not been allowed to overbond.)

AND THE REAL POINT IS THEY WERE NOT BORN IN THE WILD, NOR CAN THEY BE RELEASED INTO THE WILD. ERGO IT IS OUR RESPONSIBILITY TO GIVE THEM THE BEST LIVES IN CAPTIVITY THEY CAN HAVE...

And remember, birds in the wild live hard and often short lives.

There is a 50% mortality rate with baby birds in the wild, and most don't last the first year due to predation. Like it or not, birds are primarily food for other animals. They fight for survival. They fight for nesting spots. And what nesting spots are left, are being deforested at a rapid clip, making the competition for nesting spots all that much harder. Their natural food sources are being destroyed, and many are starving...

Captive bred birds live considerably longer lives, generally without the intense fear of being eaten by something else, and generally need only bend over to get food and water.

Mine live outside the cage. Go outside and play in trees every nice day, and get all the love they deserve...

I THINK THEY HAVE A PRETTY GOOD LIFE COMPARED TO THEIR WILD COUSINS!!! And if I left them outside they'd scream for me to come get them. (I know this first hand, because Sally will sit in the tree if the front yard until she's ready to come in... and then calls me! So THAT is a fact!)

Not everyone gives them what I do, and I have seen it first hand. It pisses me off too... But at this point all I can do is work with mine, and try to educate people.

I have said it many times, I simply don't know how it is possible to love these danged birds this much... but I do. And I know for a fact that love is returned...

Could any wild critter ask for more?!

Just because some humans are clueless and abuse them, doesn't mean keeping parrots is abusive...

 

[torrap]

I agree with everything you say. There are few people who are as knowledgeable and caring as you are Birdman666, but the majority of people buy a little baby from the breeder, kiss him/her all over till the bird bites half of the nose off. Then the bird goes to the sanctuary and labeled as a "problem" bird. I think the documentary showed this aspect of the problem pretty well. Also it shocked me when they say that the average time people keep the parrot is 2(!!!!!!) years.

Sounds like a "bird paradise" you have there Birdman666.......
Maybe I should ship my birds to you..........

 

[Birdman666]

Sounds like a "bird paradise" you have there Birdman666.......
Maybe I should ship my birds to you..........

That's how I wound up with 11 at one time... and I literally would take my bird out to the park, and people would come up to me and ask me to take their bird... It's ABSOLUTELY CRAZY!

The most insulting was a guy at the Grocery Store (yeah, I know, I broke the law.) My red lored amazon's favorite thing was to get pushed around on a grocery cart. (She also took the bills and/or credit card out of my wallet and handed it to the checkout clerk. They knew me there...)

Anyway, when he saw how mine behaved, he asked me to take his cage bound red lored amazon, (that was behaviorally challenged and screamed and bit) re-train it (for free and at my expense) and then give it back to him once the bird learned how to behave...

JUST OUTRAGEOUS!

Which, actually, when I think about it, was exactly what I was doing with all the rehab zons I took in and placed over the years...