Getting a baby vs. Adopting!

[GaryBV]

Birdman could you clarify please - are you saying my post regarding the Carolina Parakeet was misinformation where I said the main reason was farmers viewing them as pests and killing the parrots or Khaigha's post that claimed the pet trade was responsible for their extinction? I'm just confused.

 

[Birdman666]

Birdman could you clarify please - are you saying my post regarding the Carolina Parakeet was misinformation where I said the main reason was farmers viewing them as pests and killing the parrots or Khaigha's post that claimed the pet trade was responsible for their extinction? I'm just confused.

Yours was accurate.

The pet trade was not responsible for this one.

 

[WannaBeAParrot]

As long as the parrots have no choice in the matter whatsoever, then it is each individual human's choice what he or she thinks is the right thing to do within the scope of their own life, rationale, what what decision and responsibilities they want to live with.

My personal choice is that I would prefer to take in a special needs rescue from a home or a shelter... one that is in need of a forever happy, safe and loving environment, but is not the choice of many due to looks or other issues the parrot has. There are plenty of non-special needs parrots without a forever home, young and old, that might work great for so many people that just dont know they are there waiting. I'm so glad the program was on TV. I hope the issue keeps getting more and more attnetion quickly.

 

[GaryBV]

WHEW! Thanks Birdman, I respect your opinion so I got a bit nervous there although I could have sourced my comments with footnotes.

 

[Birdman666]

WHEW! Thanks Birdman, I respect your opinion so I got a bit nervous there although I could have sourced my comments with footnotes.

No I was 110% agreeing with you... and added that it parallels what is going on right now with the two rare Bolivian Macaws Red Fronts, and Blue Throats...

Exact same scenario. Their homes got turned into farm land, and their is nothing left to eat but the farmer's crops, and no nesting sites left.

That's poor people trying to survive, and competing with the birds for survival.

Birds lose that one almost every time.

 

[SandyBee]

We chose to adopt, that choice was made easier for us by having a supportive rescue.
We were allowed to visit the rescue multiple times to meet all the birds, we got a lot of information from these sessions.
One of the biggest upsides was that if we adopted(upon approval of course) they had a policy in place that within 30 days if the parrot wasn't working out they would take them back to the sanctuary, no questions asked and full refund. Never having a parrot before it felt good to know that if you found yourself over your head there was an answer. They also have been a great support to us with medical/behaviour and general support.
Now it has gone well with us and both our FIDS have settled in nicely. I have a hot 3 amazon, but he is 36 and was raised with one owner before me. Armed with knowledge we got through spring and will again.

Where we are there is also a sanctuary that has over a 1000 birds now, birds that go there live the rest of their life there never to be adopted. Our rescue where we got our birds have 300+ right now and are sometimes having to turn birds away. GEEZ we live in Canada, we don't have any wild parrots here and yet so many in need of homes.

I wish all rescues could be like the one we have and I wish more people would adopt and learn how to turn difficult behaviour around. I never even thought of getting a baby(they are cute!!) I just didn't figure I had the skills to train it properly.

 

[Abigal7]

Would, I adopt the an adult bird that liked me? Yes, I would. I personally am not offended of this topic but I want to look at this at a different angle. As the trees in the rainforest get cut down and as parrots are killed because they are considered pest a lot of species are now endangered and if not breed in captivity will go extinct. I can post you a article of the example of the people in Afghanistan have killed many non parrot birds and are even called the birdless country. The problem with our laws is breeders that have endangered birds like the blue throated macaw and golden conure can not go across state lines to other breeders and make sure the line is not interbreed . I see not government encouragement or programs focused on placing birds in a strict environment to try to teach them to survive in the wild. And if the breeder is very successful with breeding endangered birds what happens to the babies? And when can a certain amount go into the pet market? It cost money to take care of birds and it is sad to see no encouragement of programs for these species so I would not be surprised if breeders when seeing all that would just stop breeding the blue throated macaw and golden conure etc. What about parrots born in captivity? No bird I owned has ever gave me the idea they would survive in the wild. Even my most feral birds that knew they were birds (a budgie and green cheek conure) or flighted birds (the budgie and cockatiel) still scream hawk food (and I am not trying to underestimate their abilities). What about parrots that do not fly even when their wings feathers grow back out (yes those kind of birds are out there).

 

[GaryBV]

Hi Abigal - it would make the most sense if there were breeding centers in the native countries of where the birds are located if one is going to release any back into the wild. I think it's very important to keep a wild population if at all possible. But any bird that has been raised by us can't really be released. That would be like me taking my Pug dog out to the woods and leaving her there - would be a near 0% chance of her surviving. I don't have any personal knowledge of any breeding programs in parrot's native countries, but I would be very surprised if there wasn't. I do know that currently there is a big push on preventing the extinction of frogs and other amphibians world-wide and that many are being put into sterile locations to keep them from diseases and allowing them to breed in order to release later when the fungus is hopefully defeated. I do have a pair of Pacific Parrotlets and it is my understanding that nearly every Parrotlet in the USA is somehow related to every other Parrotlet in the US and it is illegal to important them into the country. I do hope that there are breeding programs in Ecuador and Peru. I also wish the emphasis on breeding birds was genetic strength rather than financial incentives. Greed is a powerful motivator. All in all I do hope that there are enough captive animals to stave off extinction of any species, including our various parrot species.

 

[khaiqha]

I was saying the pet trade was only "part" of the reason the North Carolina Parakeet went extinct. I am fully aware of the other reasons as to why is went into oblivion. I highlighted the pet reason as a way of showing that without breeding, wild animals will be exploited into oblivion.

 

[Boysmom]

I understand that this documentary has stirred up alot of chatter on forums. Lets consider what this means for the many birds in rescues. Many people had their heart strings tugged at by this show for adopting from a rescue. Before you run out and apply to adopt a rescued bird, consider this. As was stated in the show, many birds adopted from rescues are returned. Why ? Because these birds are in a rescue because they have behavioral or screaming issues, and most people are not ready to solve these issues. It takes hours a day for months and maybe years to rehab and retrain a bird who has such issues. Many people give up and return the bird. This results in the bird having even more emotional baggage than it had in the rescue, thus making it even less likely it will find a forever home. I can personally attest that the local rescue I visit has birds returned from adoptions frequently.

I fostered some old breeders for a family friend a while back, 10 total( 5 pairs). After working with these birds for a year, I had half of them stepping up and behaving enough to be considered hand tame pets. It took me about 4 hours in daily training, and I took no off days or vacation during this time. I knew the birds needed my consistent training and attention for this to work out for their benefit. They did return home to their owner when his health improved, and they are now treated as pets not breeders, thanks to my diligent training. They have a much happier and rewarding life now, and get daily love and play time out of their cages because they have learned to behave.

How many people do you know who are willing to dedicate a year of daily 4 hour training sessions to a bird who still may never be a perfect pet ? Like I said, I only had a 50% success rate with that flock. Yes, I took several nasty bites through out the process also.

Considering this, read a post from Birdtricks.com facebook page regarding this documentary.:
BirdTricks.com
14 hours ago
I know that everyone, myself included, was very affected by Parrot Confidential. It was unnerving and made some powerful statements that will stay with us for a long time. I know that many of you are thinking that you should go out and rescue a needy bird, but please reconsider doing this - I am certain that this is not the intended outcome of this program.
Towards the beginning of the show, Jamie McLeod said (of the birds in her rescue): "Many of the birds have been adopted out numerous times and have come back." This was one of the most important statements in the program. Each experience of failure a bird endures in a new home makes it increasingly harder for them to succeed in future homes.
Getting another bird is something that should be done only after months of thought and preparation. If you take in a bird that you are not ready to deal with, it will result in yet another failure for that bird. This is one of those cases where good intentions are not enough.
If you want to help needy birds, donate to a favorite rescue or volunteer your time. Educate everyone you can about the complexities of parrot ownership and never glamorize it. These are ways that you can make a difference.~Patty

 

[torrap]

I can't thank you enough Boysmom for your reply.
I just wish more people know how much time and effort birds need from their owners. The rescue birds for obvious reasons and little babies to be socialized and trained properly.
I want to thank everyone for participating in this thread.
I just want to add (or repeat myself) that I didn't have such strong opinion on having birds as pets a year ago. The only thing I knew - I wanted a baby Grey, and wanted it badly.
My mind was changed only after I went to volunteer in our local Sanctuary for Exotic Birds.
Please, take time to go visit one if you have one in your area. If you haven't done so, I guarantee it will make you think about this issue at least, if not change you perspective totally.
I was so lucky the bird that liked me in the sanctuary is not a "difficult" bird (not yet, and I hope never). But I still find myself missing few hours each day for everything I need to do, 24 hours is just not enough.
Even my totally sweet Simba was returned to the sanctuary by someone...................for reasons not known to me with clarity, I've been told that the person had to go back to school.....!!!???

 

[getwozzy]

If you want to help needy birds, donate to a favorite rescue or volunteer your time. Educate everyone you can about the complexities of parrot ownership and never glamorize it. These are ways that you can make a difference.~Patty

This is such a good point! There are more ways to help birds in need than just bringing them home. I also think "not glamorizing it" is a very very excellent point- most people assume owning a parrot is all about fun and games, but there's the reality of how much training do we do with our birds? How much time do we spend in the kitchen for them? Cleaning? Researching? Making DIY stuff? Vet bills? There's A LOT that goes into owning and caring for a parrot. Instead of telling people how much fun they are, why not tell them how much work they are? Fulfilling work, but it's work. And sometimes it can be overwhelming for some. IMHO I feel like I have TWO toddlers now, instead of one because it's the same "work load" for me.

 

[sssaucey]

I'm happy that this thread was started, it's always a good thing for the parrot community to expand and share knowledge. I think many people were touched and moved to some degree by the program and hopefully will take a harder look at what it takes to keep parrots happy and healthy(both physically and mentally).

on a side note, for me personally I'd like to know if anyone who owns multiple birds of the same(or similar species) finds that their birds cope with a "caged" life style more so than birds who live in a single bird home. Just because I found that one of the big topics in the show was how unnatural it is for birds to live with only humans for company.

 

[GaryBV]

I liked very much what Boysmom had to say about donating to a bird sanctuary or bird rescue. The bird community must be responsible for the birds that are already out there, unwanted, unhomed, etc., some very difficult cases. Not every bird is unsalvageable, and not every bird is in a shelter because of behavior problems (although I think most are), but because of some people's personal circumstances, financial reasons, renters not allowed pets, time constraints, etc., so many reasons. I'm not suggesting that everybody run out and adopt a problem bird, but I am asking that if you want a bird that you at least consider shelter birds, go and visit one and see what's there, could be a diamond. But also be aware of the commitment involved, and we all know that's a big commitment, especially for our larger parrot friends, but even parakeets, lovebirds and parrotlets can live 20 years or more. I wanted a blue parrotlet so badly, SO BADLY, but a local breeder was pretty snobby about it and they were SO expensive, so instead, I got a bird that was a green male, age unknown by the owner, a plucker, who looked pitiful. That boy is now fully feathered, chirpy and happy, has a great diet, and I am working on getting him to fly (he had plucked all his back, wing and tail feathers out). I'm not blaming the former owner, she had him a great cage, but would refuse pellets and fresh food (so many birds do), but now, he literally RACES to his food dish, chirping away, when I put in fresh foods, especially soaked and sprouted seed, Brussels sprouts (cut up finely) and broccoli and sweet potato. It takes a lot of time for some birds to be moved from an all seed diet to species appropriate diets, but in the end, with patience, how worth it. And how rewarding. I'm not at all against getting a baby bird, go for it, but if we are going to be responsible bird companions we need to consider the adults and older birds and we all know they are out there. I wanted to add that Parrot Confidential did emphasize the commitment required and longevity of parrots, and that is a very valuable lesson, especially for 1st time bird owners, and it could be that the best way to start with birds is not to go out and get that awesome Macaw, or that brilliant Eckie, but start with a parakeet - with time they can even talk! Plus I have seen plenty of parakeets and even lovebirds at shelters. I don't think many people realize how MESSY parrots can be lol. That's also a consideration. And, if you can't afford to feed the bird properly, and that goes for any pet, you really shouldn't have it, that the best thing for the bird is someone who can provide for it's needs.

 

[Boysmom]

on a side note, for me personally I'd like to know if anyone who owns multiple birds of the same(or similar species) finds that their birds cope with a "caged" life style more so than birds who live in a single bird home. Just because I found that one of the big topics in the show was how unnatural it is for birds to live with only humans for company.

Good question... I know while I was watching the documentary, Flora was flock calling to the wild amazons. Ruby doesn't interact with Flora, as Flora has only been here about a month and i don't trust the two together yet. They are in the same room, and I have heard them talking to each other though. Flora does call Ruby by name also.

Maybe we could find video of our species in the wild and play it for our birds. I bet they would really like it, as I said Flora seemed to recognize her species on the show. It would probably be a better bird sitting video than any of the commercial ones on the market.

 

[GaryBV]

I have actually found videos of my bird species and played them for the birds, and they definitely react to it, especially the lovebirds. You Tube is very good for this because it is easy to find most birds chirping and carrying on lol. I did have a lone Peach Face lovebird for 11 years, my lil baby boy (rip), but now I have 2 Fisher Lovebirds together, and two Pacific Parrotlets together. They give me a lot less attention than my lone bird did, but the tradeoff is they have another bird to cuddle with, preen with (I love to watch them gently scratching each other's heads, sitting together pressed close, etc.) But give it a try, go onto You Tube, find your bird species, and turn up the volume and see what happens!

 

[mtdoramike]

I hope you realize that most of these documentaries are always one sided and is usually which ever side the person making the documentary has chosen. I myself would love to be able to take my bird(s) out to the wild where ever their species originated from and release them to the wild and watch them be able to fly away free like nature intended them to do. But that isn't feasible or wise to do since they were born and bred in captivity so they would not be able to survive in the wild on their own.

Also, you see the selling of pet birds all the time on classified ads, even with self proclaimed bird lovers, who claim to want the best for their bird, but also wants to get back some of their investment. They use the reasoning that " They must charge a fee for their bird to discourage bird flippers", "I want to make sure and find the best home possible", "by the new owner paying for the bird, it will force them to give better care to the bird", or this is one that I love most of all "well if they can afford to pay for the bird then they should be able to care for the bird" REALLY. So most everyone, not just breeders or importers are making money off the bird trade. Check out Craigslist.

My view is, if you want a bird and feel that you can care for the bird and know how to handle birds with issues, get a rescue bird. But if you do not then go to a local breeder. I also believe that if you can afford to buy a bird great and if you find later down the road you can no longer care for the bird for what ever reason, find them a good home by doing a little leg work and research and not depend on money to do it for you. Treat them like a family member, not a debit card or ATM.

 

[Merlee]

Also, you see the selling of pet birds all the time on classified ads, even with self proclaimed bird lovers, who claim to want the best for their bird, but also wants to get back some of their investment. They use the reasoning that " They must charge a fee for their bird to discourage bird flippers", "I want to make sure and find the best home possible", "by the new owner paying for the bird, it will force them to give better care to the bird", or this is one that I love most of all "well if they can afford to pay for the bird then they should be able to care for the bird" REALLY. So most everyone, not just breeders or importers are making money off the bird trade. Check out Craigslist.

My view is, if you want a bird and feel that you can care for the bird and know how to handle birds with issues, get a rescue bird. But if you do not then go to a local breeder. I also believe that if you can afford to buy a bird great and if you find later down the road you can no longer care for the bird for what ever reason, find them a good home by doing a little leg work and research and not depend on money to do it for you. Treat them like a family member, not a debit card or ATM.

Great post. I have been wanting a DYH and have called multiple sellers. They wanted over $800 and I have asked if they would come down. I told them that I had big bird experience and the money I would save on the purchase price would go towards having the bird vetted. One owner wanted to make a profit off the bird and the used cage. She never had the bird vetted and said it was MY choice to take the bird to the vet. This is why many birds are still on the market today. It is not about finding a good home, it's about their owner's investment. I told the lady everything I wanted to do to provide a comfortable, safe and loving home, but it didn't seem to make a difference in dropping the price. Another lady was selling two, a male and female without a cage. The female was more tame than the male so she was charging $300 more. She was selling them because she just got a macaw and couldn't keep 3 birds, even though the DYHs were there first.

I have gone to a rescue. The birds there have problems which I do not have the skills or time to rehabilitate it.

It's amazing how selfish people can be at the mental expense of their "beloved" pets. For those members who have received free birds, what is the secret? I am disgusted with the owners I have come in contact with thus far.

 

[torrap]

I was extra lucky with getting my YSA through the CL ad. I got her with the papers (starting with the hatch certificate), food, toys and the cage I couldn't use anyway. On top of $100 I had to pay for all of that, I just had to take her to the wellness exam to the Avian Vet and I got her a used big cage on the same CL.
But I can't forget how before that I went to see a TAG responding to the CL ad and it was baaaaaaaaaaaad....... Poor TAG was plucked (not much but still), in a very small cage, etc. I couldn't get any truthful info from the lady who was selling the bird. She was saying one thing on the phone, and another thing when I got there.....But one thing I will never forget.......poor TAG was holding my finger through the bars...like saying "please take me out of here".....oooooh how I hope she is in good hands now. The lady didn't want to lower the price, and she wanted too much, so I will feel guilty for the rest of my life that I didn't take poor birdy.

So, what I want to say is that if you are ready to go through some bad episodes responding to CL ads, you could eventually get the bird with a very honest and caring owner, who is either too ill to care for the bird or moving, or some other unexpected things happened.....

 

[jenphilly]

I have been offline for a few days (my brother came to visit from out of town and Saturday Ivory had a followup with our preferred avian vet). Was sitting here tonight with a question bouncing around in my head about parrots 'nature vs nurture', logged on and found this very interesting thread! I avoided watching the show for the very reason of knowing any type of documentary, regardless of topic, is skewed towards the producers opinion.

I am really happy to see the long ongoing discussion and various opinions and some of the 'you've got a point'

We have both rescued / adopted birds in our home as well as a couple that came home from wonderful breeders as babies / young birds and even 2 cockatiels that were oopsies and were hand raised by my daughter. I don't think that breeding in captivity is the problem, its much like dog breeding, private loving breeders raise wonderful friends and family members, but its the puppy mills that mass produce animals that end up in pet shops. I won't go so far as to say no pet store should sell baby birds, but I think the easy availability is the problem for birds ending up in the wrong homes and ultimately rescues (or craigslist).

Our most recent addition to our family is the bare eyed cockatoo and I don't think I would ever recommend to anyone to adopt one (baby or adult)! I joke she is literally like having a 3 year old that will be this age for the next 50 years or so! We knew what we were getting into, but I know so many people have a cockatoo for a first bird and its that very reason Ivory was waiting til we stumbled across her and asked to come home! Yes we probably over paid for her, especially with no cage provided, but everyone can roll their eyes at me, but I believe there are certain people, places and animals that we are meant to have in our lives (and vice versa). We never planned on a cockatoo, but we are able to provide Ivory with a loving home and we are able to try to teach her to be a bird, not a perfect pet! The very reason I logged on tonight was to ask everyone their experience with teaching a parrot how to be a parrot! While many (including the vet tech) saw Ivory as the perfect bird because she is so well 'behaved', she does not have a clue about foraging and to me that is simply wrong! I agree our 'pets' can never be released to the wild and expect to thrive, but having a parrot in my home to me means I provide her with activities and environment that help her act like a bird (and not a well behaved feathered puppy).

I am starting the thread I intended to, but I was really happy to see the depth of discussion here and had to post a big smile to everyone!

Jen