Goffy the Goffin has a beak/tongue problem

[Scott]

Absolutely loved the PHOTOS Scott of all those Goffins aren't they the most beautiful cheeky characters ? But 5 ? plus !! Amazing.

They are hands-down my favorite species. I'd have a dozen or more if practical!

 

[derekdylan7]

No feather issues-nothing else amiss, so all good. My main concern was seeing blood and his continual beak and tongue movement in obvious irritation. I even wondered if the upper mandible was growing inward or narrower than it should causing the biting down on the sides of the tongue, if that is indeed a possibility?

 

[Scott]

No feather issues-nothing else amiss, so all good. My main concern was seeing blood and his continual beak and tongue movement in obvious irritation. I even wondered if the upper mandible was growing inward or narrower than it should causing the biting down on the sides of the tongue, if that is indeed a possibility?

A strong possibility, an avian vet could easily diagnose observing mechanical movement. Beak alterations accomplished with skillful use of Dremel tool and abrasive attachment. I've had a few parrots altered without use of anesthesia - depends on temperament and duration of procedure.

 

[noodles123]

No feather issues-nothing else amiss, so all good. My main concern was seeing blood and his continual beak and tongue movement in obvious irritation. I even wondered if the upper mandible was growing inward or narrower than it should causing the biting down on the sides of the tongue, if that is indeed a possibility?

A strong possibility, an avian vet could easily diagnose observing mechanical movement. Beak alterations accomplished with skillful use of Dremel tool and abrasive attachment. I've had a few parrots altered without use of anesthesia - depends on temperament and duration of procedure.

Noodles gets her beak filed with a dremmel (sp?) multiple times a year (but when I got her, she already had a problem that SHOULD have been filed down as an adult/prior to adoption---so it's not like she has ALWAYS has this done). She doesn't love it (at all), but she kind of likes being toweled (in a WEIRD, terrified, but sexy way??? LOL!!!--don't get me wrong- she fights it, but once she is towelled, she doesn't HATE it)--Actually. I took her in a few weeks ago, and last time was the 1st time she screamed in over 4 years (because she was scared)...can't remember before that...maybe once?? I used to have it done with a hand-file but my current CAV uses an electronic tool--- I quizzed him a lot at the start and made sure he was careful about her tongue and break dust getting into her nares etc... (very important to know how to hold the head/beak etc-- so as to protect the tongue and keep the bird from inhaling the particles)

I know they are totally different species etc-- but mine came to me with scissor-beak, so she has to get her mandibles filed or she starts to have a bull-dog issue on one side.

Point being, Noodles has always been away when it has been filed....but she does look like a sad wet rat afterwards because of toweling and slicked feathers ;( (it's temporary).

 

[derekdylan7]

That is very interesting to know. Both Scott & Noodles mention the Dremel tool. Frankly I’ve never heard of that treatment, and will look for an Avian vet that knows their stuff. Not an easy task in the UK! Interestingly when Goffy is trying to remove flaking bits of his upper beak ( which I assume is a natural process) he likes me to have a pick at it with a fingernail which usually is all that’s needed to help remove bits bothering him. He then happily chews the flake we have removed, though occasionally in the past he’d take a pair of scissors to scrape it all by himself, maybe not as skilfully as a vet! Anyway, not so much soreness or irritation in recent days, so not much to be concerned about at the moment.

 

[noodles123]

That is very interesting to know. Both Scott & Noodles mention the Dremel tool. Frankly I’ve never heard of that treatment, and will look for an Avian vet that knows their stuff. Not an easy task in the UK! Interestingly when Goffy is trying to remove flaking bits of his upper beak ( which I assume is a natural process) he likes me to have a pick at it with a fingernail which usually is all that’s needed to help remove bits bothering him. He then happily chews the flake we have removed, though occasionally in the past he’d take a pair of scissors to scrape it all by himself, maybe not as skilfully as a vet! Anyway, not so much soreness or irritation in recent days, so not much to be concerned about at the moment.

You just want to make sure you vet knows what he/she is doing with that tool---I used to be really against them due to the potential for dust inhalation and tongue injury, but a solid avian vet can use one without issue 99% of the time. Hand- filing is another option that I used for a long time (because some vets will do that, and the dust is less extreme, but it takes longer etc) but you just want to make sure either way, the bird isn't breathing in what comes off and that their tongue is not getting filed as well!

Noodles has never had to be put under for anything, but that doesn't mean certain things don't scare her....She's pretty social etc...not SUPER brave, but likes to show off and is comfortable with me so if I am around, she seems to do okay....I know that is very situational, so just wanted to clarify.

 

[Scott]

That is very interesting to know. Both Scott & Noodles mention the Dremel tool. Frankly I’ve never heard of that treatment, and will look for an Avian vet that knows their stuff. Not an easy task in the UK! Interestingly when Goffy is trying to remove flaking bits of his upper beak ( which I assume is a natural process) he likes me to have a pick at it with a fingernail which usually is all that’s needed to help remove bits bothering him. He then happily chews the flake we have removed, though occasionally in the past he’d take a pair of scissors to scrape it all by himself, maybe not as skilfully as a vet! Anyway, not so much soreness or irritation in recent days, so not much to be concerned about at the moment.

Dremel only needed for significant issues. A skilled vet quickly targets the offending growth to minimize duration and possibility of inhaling particles.

Some of mine will tolerate fingernail assistance removing the flakes.

 

[noodles123]

Yes-- the reason Noodles gets her trimmed more often than most is because she has scissor-beak (either from improper weaning or something she was just born with--they aren't sure). Anyway, that causes her bite to be uneven, so one mandible wears down way faster than the other. I don't know if I said that already earlier in the thread, but in case anyone reads this, I didn't want them thinking that most birds need to get their beaks trimmed ALL the time or something lol.

 

[derekdylan7]

The more I look into this the more I think he has developed a slight "underbite". Probably happened over time, and causing regular catching of the tongue. Swelling and more tongue biting follows. Further research required ! Not sure if it's the upper beak narrowing or the lower beak widening over time but that's the nett result.

 

[derekdylan7]

https://vimeo.com/436717187

Here’s a one minute film clip kind of showing what I have been describing...he’s doing this every day in between normal preening, chewing, playing, etc.

 

[noodles123]

Seems like it is bothering him-- like his bite isn't hitting properly. He almost looks like he is trying to grind it down

 

[Scott]

Lovely video, Goffy looks healthy and happy! Definitely odd, his tongue almost looks a bit swollen, perhaps from a chronic irritation at the base. I can see the area of irritation. Strongly recommend a visit with certified avian vet to get a diagnosis - actions taken can be assessed by risk.

 

[derekdylan7]

well, we found an Avian ("Exotics") Vet who spoke knowledgeably and examined Goffy. The nett result is we are starting on the antibiotics route before any blood or X-rays. He really seems fine - eating and drinking well and playing up as usual. But there is plenty of fiddling with the tongue and biting down on the protrusions still.

Administering the antibiotics is no joke. He fought every inch of the way so today, knowing he was thirsty, we played lapping up water from a teaspoon, followed by drinking a couple of drops of medicine from a different teaspoon. No fuss. Not sure I got the dose right but no fighting involved.

 

[Scott]

Interesting protocol of administering meds before lab tests. Perhaps there is sufficient evidence of infection to proceed.

If Goffy begins to resist drinking the liquid, there are several options. Every one of my goffins except one loves cooked oatmeal (porridge?) served at room temperature. A great treat and conduit should oral meds become necessary. Other cereals such as cream of wheat/rice, etc may be considered. Spreading on a bit of dry toast or mixing with unsalted/non-sugared baby food also effective.

Good luck, hope you see positive results!

 

[derekdylan7]

That's a good wheeze-he loves cereal especially soaked in milk like Weetabix which is a popular UK cereal.

To be honest I am dubious about the "infection" diagnosis. To me there is some tongue damage caused either by a sharp object initially or even his own beak biting down. The tongue pushing and persistent beak movement, involves biting down on the damaged tongue side, which I conclude (on very close inspection) is his attempt to remove scab tissue from his own tongue. This inevitably leads to soreness, and occasional bleeding-though not seen for a couple of days-much the same as a human would experience picking off a skin scab too soon, instead of letting it fall off naturally. In every other respect I have to say he is in great form.

 

[AmyMyBlueFront]

As far as the meds go,my Amazon has to take a heart med daily. The first attempt (about 2 years ago) I held him on his back while I kept his feetsies occupied holding his perch stick and got to squirt it in him. He learned VERY FAST that it was not going to happen again! The next day he used one of his feet to kick at the syringe then bite the side of it So now every morning he gets a very small piece of toast with a dab of almond butter and he waits at his nummy bowl for it.
Hope Goffy makes a full recovery!


Jim

 

[Scott]

That's a good wheeze-he loves cereal especially soaked in milk like Weetabix which is a popular UK cereal.

To be honest I am dubious about the "infection" diagnosis. To me there is some tongue damage caused either by a sharp object initially or even his own beak biting down. The tongue pushing and persistent beak movement, involves biting down on the damaged tongue side, which I conclude (on very close inspection) is his attempt to remove scab tissue from his own tongue. This inevitably leads to soreness, and occasional bleeding-though not seen for a couple of days-much the same as a human would experience picking off a skin scab too soon, instead of letting it fall off naturally. In every other respect I have to say he is in great form.

Soaking in Weetabix should do the trick! You have other options if he tires of cereal.

Does the vet have plans to look further into what does appear to be a mechanical interaction between tongue and beak?

 

[derekdylan7]

The Exotics Vet covered a catalogue of possible conditions the problem could be linked to. Most require blood tests. X-rays, etc but we didn't look at ways of preventing him from chewing his tongue really. Today he is his usual cheerful, hungry, playful self but he has spent a while nibbling his tongue causing redness on both sides. In between time he fashioned himself a useful Cover Face Mask !! Picture attached...

 

[Scott]

Well that's cute! Thankfully he doesn't pluck and need a real face covering!

 

[noodles123]

I'll probably look like that when teaching this year...lol/ *OH NO...*