Good communication method or reinforcement of screeching?

[Skittys_Daddy]

So I've had Skittles for five years, five months and one day. Things were pretty good in the very beginning and then we had many months (several years actually) of very stressful days together.

Once I integrated Skittles into my daily activities things greatly improved. It isn't enough to just let him be free-flighted, I have to interact with him throughout the day- or he will find a way to force interaction cause he will not be ignored. A simple look over to him with a few sweet talks and that does the trick.

My question is this- I read stories all the time about how to avoid having your parrot train you. I question whether the methods he and I have are helpful or a nightmare waiting to happen.

Here are three behaviors that are common among Skittles. They happen often enough and always have been associated with the particular need.

When he wants a treat, he flies over to his treat bag and screeches. He will find that treat bag no matter where I put it. Even if I hide it, he will find it. When he screeches for a treat, I give him one. He doesn't keep on screeching. He goes on about his day.

When he wants juice, he flies onto the top of the fridge and screeches. Once I get there he sticks his tongue out and wags it. Then I give him juice. He doesn't screech anymore and goes about his day. When he wants a bath he will fly over to the faucet and ruffle his feathers and sneeze.

To me, these are special ways he's found to communicate his needs. But I question, am I training him to train me to do what he wants?

I mean, he goes into his cage on his own for food and water. He doesn't screech much aside from the given reasons unless he is alerting me to a potential danger. I see all this as good and healthy communication but I worry I might be reinforcing a behavior that could lead to problems.

I probably shouldn't believe everything I read. lol.

Anyone have any thoughts?

 

[jenphilly]

The only one that is a problem is to give him a treat when he screeches. Oh wait, just caught that he screeches at the fridge too.. but same thing goes below...

Questions... when he flies to the treat bag and screeches, does he continue to screech until he has the treat or does he stop once you start to walk over? Depending on that will make retraining him to come up with a new means of asking for a treat. An option for treats is to put them into a container and have a bell on that container. Teach him to ring that bell and he gets a treat. Conures are exceptional little brainics, it won't take him long to know what is expected of him!!

And honestly, don't let anyone tell you they only train their birds and not vice versa.... birds will have habits that we find completely acceptable as a means of communication and reinforce that behavior. Positive reinforcement is simply reinforcing the behaviors we like So, its a two way street, yes they train us too!!!

 

[Piasa]

I really think this is a subjective question.

The way I look at it: does his screech bother you? Is it "bad" in some way? (too loud for neighbors etc). If so, encourage a more acceptable noise from him to say "Hey I want a treat/juice/bath". If it's a nice call he makes, then great.

I don't see this as him being manipulative. He is just using the tools he has to tell you what he wants. You do the same for him when you ask for a step up, or for him to go into his cage, and the many other things we do.

If he stops being polite, then maybe change directions. But it sounds like it's cute/helpful. I love that he wags his tongue! Too cute.

 

[Skittys_Daddy]

@Jenphilly With the treats, I usually try to have the bag handy so I don't have to get up to get it if I'm busy. But when he flies over to it and its not nearby and I get up he will usually fly over to my shoulder and wait. I'll give him a treat and then he'll fly off to one of his playstands. If he doesn't fly over automatically, I hold it in my hand and make him fly over to get it.

He doesn't bother me when I eat human food anymore- well, not like he used too. He will try to get some from me but after a few refusals, he gets the hint and leaves me alone. So I can eat 'non-bird friendly' foods around him without having to feel bad about not giving him some. That was actually a lot easier than I thought it would be. I thought he'd be much more resistant.

Years ago, when I had all the screeching problems with him, I couldn't even be on the phone without having to put him in a timeout. Now, he may screech and do 'fly-by's and whirly twirls and such when I'm on the phone but as long as I talk to him too when I'm on the phone he is fine.

I just wonder if the reason he is so well behaved is because he has me so well trained. Or if it's just that the two of us have a good system.

I like the bell idea. I hadn't thought of that. That may be a perfect way of finding out if it is in fact us communicating or him trying to manipulate me. I'm hoping to get more ideas and input from others as well.

@Piasa I seem to think that as well. It's seeming to be a much more gray area than I had thought.

The latter part of your post is where my line of thinking lies.

His screech is loud. But he doesn't screech in my ear and I have a high tolerance for loud screeches, as long as they aren't incessant for hours which they aren't. They used to be prior to our 'arrangement'. He does make these screeches in the morning in twos and they are softer and adorable.

But his 'piercing' screech only occurs when he is on alert. His head feathers rise and his screech is intolerable.

 

[Rival_of_the_Rickeybird]

Well, I am not exactly a bird person (although I suspect I could be 'grand-fathered' in).
The Mrs. and the bird have things worked out between them where both seem happy. I'm happy to tolerate the situation. It's heart-warming and at times hilarious, and nobody seems to get hurt (much). As an uninformed observer, I tend to think that, if there are consenting adults and humanely-cared-for birds involved, it's all good. I stand very much ready to be corrected (but not bitten, please).

 

[chris-md]

Have you taught him that screeching at what he wants gets him exactly what he wants? Absolutely.

Is that desirable? In this case I agree it's completely subjective. To you it's fine, and even accomplishes an end. But if something happens and you rehome him (God forbid, death or change in health status) he will keep up the behaviors and new owners won't understand. To them he'll just be a screaming bird.

Totally subjective.

 

[Rival_of_the_Rickeybird]

Good point. Spoiling a bird means promising to outlive him, or at least place him with a like-minded family/friend youngster if/when the time comes.
The Mrs. was told 30+ years ago that her bird's life expectancy was 30 years. Now 32, the estimates are upwards of 40 based on advanced stats and science.

 

[jenphilly]

@Jenphilly With the treats, I usually try to have the bag handy so I don't have to get up to get it if I'm busy. But when he flies over to it and its not nearby and I get up he will usually fly over to my shoulder and wait. I'll give him a treat and then he'll fly off to one of his playstands. If he doesn't fly over automatically, I hold it in my hand and make him fly over to get it.

He doesn't bother me when I eat human food anymore- well, not like he used too. He will try to get some from me but after a few refusals, he gets the hint and leaves me alone. So I can eat 'non-bird friendly' foods around him without having to feel bad about not giving him some. That was actually a lot easier than I thought it would be. I thought he'd be much more resistant.

Years ago, when I had all the screeching problems with him, I couldn't even be on the phone without having to put him in a timeout. Now, he may screech and do 'fly-by's and whirly twirls and such when I'm on the phone but as long as I talk to him too when I'm on the phone he is fine.

I just wonder if the reason he is so well behaved is because he has me so well trained. Or if it's just that the two of us have a good system.

I like the bell idea. I hadn't thought of that. That may be a perfect way of finding out if it is in fact us communicating or him trying to manipulate me. I'm hoping to get more ideas and input from others as well.

@Piasa I seem to think that as well. It's seeming to be a much more gray area than I had thought.

The latter part of your post is where my line of thinking lies.

His screech is loud. But he doesn't screech in my ear and I have a high tolerance for loud screeches, as long as they aren't incessant for hours which they aren't. They used to be prior to our 'arrangement'. He does make these screeches in the morning in twos and they are softer and adorable.

But his 'piercing' screech only occurs when he is on alert. His head feathers rise and his screech is intolerable.

I'm not sure its far to use the word manipulative about a bird, cause honestly everything we do interacting with each other in a way is manipulating each other But, I think he has learned a language to communicate with you, its just what has worked for both of you so far.

Birds are vocal, all birds, it just comes with the territory in my opinion. We tell adopters who want a quiet bird to consider a cute stuffed option from the toy store My Max is a very quiet macaw in my opinion, he does not screech for no reason, but when he thinks I've left him or he's upset about something, he will do his panic call and its friggin loud!! But, to come out of the cage, he never screams, but he shakes the heck out of his stainless steel bell. Joke its him calling his servants

There was a great point about considering that while the screaming may not bother you as a means of communication, there is the thought of down the road or the future. None of us want to consider that there may be a day when we can't take care of our birds, but the responsible thing is to be prepared for that... and for your little buddy, who sounds like an exceptional bird by the way, the screaming might be an issue for when he is upset and working on settling into a new home if there should ever be a reason. So while its not a huge deal for you and its not the end of the world for another home or group to work with as well, if its something that slowly over time you can work to teach new communication skills, then why not!

But it will be a commitment on your part to make it happen! It is really no more then training for a new trick

Overall I think you have established a wonderful relationship with your bird and you are a wonderful and very interactive bird home, so don't think you are doing anything wrong! Its just a matter of if you want to make a change or teach him something new / different versus the current habits.

Keep us posted, look forward to hearing how things go!

 

[Anansi]

Phenomenal advice and commentary already given! I agree, it's definitely subjective. Training in large part is about finding a common ground that works between the bird and his/her human flock.

For instance, I don't like having my ears nibbled. (By a bird, anyway. But I digress...) For Jolly, however, this was a perfectly acceptable form of communication. The pressure was always gentle, mind you. I just don't like it. Makes me uncomfortable. So I had to work with him to change that behavior. So now he just nuzzles his head into my cheek if he wants my attention. And I meet him halfway by acknowledging him and seeing what he wants.

But this was subjective. Another person might've been just fine with being gently nibbled on the ear by his parrot. In which case Jolly's actions would no longer have been "wrong". Because the nibbling would've been a form of communication accepted by both parrot and parront. Makes all the difference.

Sent from my SM-N900V using Tapatalk

 

[Skittys_Daddy]

I am appreciating all the valuable input and feedback.

My friend/neighbor is very well aware of the unique relationship that Skitty and I have as well as our means of communicating. She is also my POA and would be responsible for Skitty if something should happen to me. I know it may sound morbid, but I've already made notes of all Skittles favorite things, things he does and why so that should help. I don't want him to outlive me. I'd rather be heartbroken over losing him than him be heartbroken over losing me.

I will say this, Skittles is six years old and I'm only 39, so if he lives another 30 years, I'll be just shy of 70.

That same friend/neighbor is one of the people who told me a while back (when I was having behavioral issues with Skittles) that I was spoiling him and not setting boundaries. Once I did that, the bad behaviors eventually ceased. Now the behavioral issues are non-existent save for the occasional bad day. (I don't consider having a bad day every so often to be a 'behavioral issue', but rather something totally normal).

So I'm feeling much better about this being subjective. For me and Skitty- this system works and I have in place, precautions should something happen to me- so that's a good thing. But if something should ever happen to me - and he had to be rehomed, the new owner would have quite a big job on their hands.