How structured are your routines?

[Laurasea]

My birds have the same get up, and go to bed time every day.

Sorry Laura, this gave me a huge giggle in strong contrast to mine and Stevens post, gave me a great smile.

My boy is hormonal right now, so for all the talk about being unpredictable, he does have roughly the same wake/sleep times every night to help keep hormones under control. The life of an Ekkie owners!

Lol! But underestimate the power of the same wake up and go to bed time!!!
Especial bedtime, birds seek out there roost abd

 

[noodles123]

Nobodies life has that must structure surely! I can't even let enzo sleep when we lose light as sometimes during the year she wouldn't interact at all as the days in winter are so short... surely a balanced healthy life is more important.

The thing is--- I have very limited hours during the work-week during which I can interact with her while still getting her those 12 hours of sleep. She HAS to have at least 3-4 hours out of her cage/interacting (minimum) and if I didn't stick to that routine, she wouldn't get enough sleep, OR she would get too little interaction. When I work 7:30- 3 or 4, I have to have a set schedule for our time together or she would get the short-end of the stick.

Weekends are much more free-style--she just gets up at 7 instead of 5, but she still is ready for dinner by 4 and in bed by 6 or so. For cockatoos, that sleep and interaction is SO crucial.

 

[Noahs_Birds]

I have to have a fairly tight routine as I breed birds, and You won't breed good numbers of birds without a good routine

My routine includes:
Every day- Fresh Live food (Termites), Husks removed from seed, Either vege mix or seeding grasses served, Fresh water, Observing and nest inspections, salad dishes cleaned

Every Second day- Fresh Egg and Biscuit Mix, Seed refilled

Mid-week (Usually Wednesday)- Benches scrubbed and washed, floor briefly swept to remove seed husks and waste, all of the ‘Goodies’ dishes cleaned, and new food put in (‘Goodies’ include grits, pellets and other supplements)

Weekend- Floors swept well, Termites collected, benches and dishes cleaned and new seed, ‘Goodies’ put in, new branches (Conures and the Quaker parrot), extra nesting material, observations and catching out birds to sell

Every 3 Months- Medicating, scrubbing out the whole aviary with water

Twice a year- Big aviary cleanout, new brush for finches, new sand in for conures on the floor, new perches

Thanks
Noah Till

 

[Ira7]

Oh, I don’t believe in strict routines at all, and my vet confirmed it.

Of course you have to feed your bird around a certain schedule, but everything else...you’re the boss, not him. Start training your bird to come out of the cage 11AM every morning, and you’ll pay hell when you don’t.

 

[noodles123]

That has not been my experience Ira7--
There have been incidents when I have had to leave Noodles in her cage much longer due to error on my part. I once accidentally slept in until 9am and she was covered and sitting in there---not mad, not screaming, but definitely doing some nesting-types of behavior because she was awake and still covered many hours past wake-up. I have also gotten home late before (as in 5:30-6) and while that was TREMENDOUSLY unfair to her, she didn't give me any trouble--but she basically came out long enough to eat and then went back in for bed--not fair for a social bird who needs a ton of interaction and activity).
She doesn't FREAK OUT if routine is disrupted and if she were to react to the change, I wouldn't alter my behavior or react to her reaction...Our routine exists so that she is able to spend time with me (during the limited time I have) and so she still can get enough sleep.
In fact- the only time I can think of her being mad about routine change was on a car trip when it was dark and she couldn't go to sleep because she didn't have room to get comfortable even though she knew it was dark and therefore bedtime...and that is a bird's nature--- the car was very dark, she knew it was like 2 hours past her bedtime, and her sleeping space was absent.

While I may be "the boss", that doesn't mean it is fair to her to do what I want when I want all of the time whenever I want...Captivity is so unnatural for birds, and a lot of their "behaviors" have nothing to do with them wanting to be "the boss" and everything to do with unmet needs or learned behaviors.
In my experience, a routine doesn't produce a ridged bird if you know what you are doing behaviorally---especially if without said routine, your bird would be locked up and leading a stagnant life without enough sleep. Having no routine was not working for Noodles, and establishing a routine has helped her 100 fold.

In the first post- I described my typical day with her. When I deviate from that description slightly, she is fine too (heck-- I have had to change major parts of the routines in emergency situations and she was fine).
She had been OCD and on anxiety meds for years with her old owners who admitted they had no routine---even though she had lots of daily time out of her cage.
When I got her (as an adult re-home), I established a semi-predictable routine and in doing so, I was able to stop all of her OCD/anxiety medications and reduce chest plucking almost completely. She had never had a routine in her life, and as soon as she had one, she relaxed a bit (kids and birds crave routine and that is okay). Her behaviors were actually coming from a lack of routine (not the other way around). Cockatoos are unique-- especially umbrellas--- yes, you don't want to make them used to a totally inflexible daily pattern, but you also need to keep in mind that with the cognitive capacity of a toddler, routine is important to some extent. It is only fair when you think about the amount of time they spend locked up and wondering...

Here's the thing---parrots and toddlers are super similar (behaviorally and cognitively). If a lack of routine works for you, then that works for me.
Looking at child development etc though, a good human parent establishes a routine for his/her human child. YES--- experts warn that one should no be overly ridged or there may be push-back when things change (change is a part of life and sometimes kids react badly to it), but that in and of itself is a learning experience and NO EXPERT is going to say, "the less routine your kid has, the better because they might get bent out of shape if it changes".
Structure and predictability are HUGE for reducing anxiety in children and helping to manage behavior. They also help the child feel more in-control and therefore, less likely to try and exert control in other aspects of life. I guess my point is, yeah, a kid may be pissed if they don't get to sit where they always sit at the dinner table, but that doesn't mean you should make them eat dinner in a new place everyday (It just means that when the kid has the first tantrum about "his/her" chair, you explain, and then ignore)...Getting rid of routine due to the risk of potential behavior when the routine changes is kind of like throwing the baby out with the bath water. A good parent lets his/her child get familiar with routines....that is healthy and normal (and recommended by doctors and psychiatrists)---yeah, they may get weird about it when they change, but without any structure, you are looking at an even more messed up situation. Think about what happens when parents ignore the importance or bedtimes, or have a different person pick their kid up from school every single day of the week...or have a different love- interest over every other day, or feed their kid at all hours of the night....Those kids are always anxious and generally have behavioral issues/ weird attention-seeking behaviors and outbursts.
Parrots are very similar in many ways---at least, Noodles is...and when you look at nature, there is routine there as well (sun rise, sunset... returning to nest at certain times, leaving at certain times, flying certain places at certain times)...It isn't totally random---PLUS, in nature, they wouldn't be locked up (and this confinement does take a mental toll on a bird intended to be freely flying miles and miles).

Establishing a general routine has changed her behavior in many positive ways and has actually allowed her to be MORE flexible than she was when there were no patterns in her past homes (she feels safer now). Imagine never knowing what was going to happen next... If you were locked up all day long and randomly, someone let you out someday, but not other days (so you could never be sure that they were coming)...and sometimes only for a few minutes, but other times for many hours (before locking you up again). It makes me nervous just thinking about it. When I am on a flight (closest human thing to a bird cage)---I always want to know how long the flight is. If I didn't know how long I was going to be stuck there (at least ball-park) it would be miserable because I would constantly be wondering (are we there yet, are we there yet etc etc). All higher-level creatures crave a certain level of predictability.

There is a middle ground to all of this, but saying that routine should be all over the place is not necessarily the best advice, even if that is what some people have heard.

Birds don't understand a lot of what could be explained to a child, and when we cage them, we remove so much from their control. Adding high levels of unpredictability/inconsistency on top of that can definitely become problematic for some birds.

 

[chris-md]

Your mileage May vary, Noodles. Your experience with your cockatoo isn't necessarily going to be the experience of others with a conure, or those of an eclectus. Each species and bird is different, so a blanket "that's not good advice" misses the mark, especially when its well established early exposure to is key to a well-adapted and well-adjusted bird.

Discussions of routine necessarily should include exposure to new items and scenario: taking the bird to the store on occasion, or on a walk outside.

Arguing over whether meal times should be consistent is really a pointless argument - bird will get fed all required meals and will rise/sleep when it rises/sleeps.

You are right in that there is middle ground: each has method has its appropriate use with the appropriate bird. No one approach is right for everyone.

FACT: Raising a bird early around some unpredictability in ALL aspects of its life is in fact valuable training to ensure the bird is not stressed when introduced to new places or things.

ALSO FACT: introducing an older bird to a chaotic routine in a new family has some potential of ensuring the bird fails to thrive under the new family's care. Our favorite youtubers have stressed they've refused to adopt because adopted birds fail to adapt adequately to their rigorous travels. Hence they only start with babies.

 

[ParrotGenie]

I knew this was going to be one of those controversial topics. I found over the years that a strict routine is actually what causes behavior, plucking issues and the bird taking way longer to accept training and adapt to accept new things. I train 100's of birds and many different species over the years. By not having a strict routine it overall makes them more resilient, harden as don't get spooked as easily anymore and adapt easier to changes and accept training much faster and changes better as a result. Cockatoos especially. I remember when I first adopted Baby how no one could go even near her and she was scared of anything new. Routine is what caused most of her behavior issues, beside the fact the kids didn't care for her after the grand mother passed away. Baby use to be on a strict routine for most of her life. The problem is it what caused her behavior issues, she hated change. It took me a year to reverse the behavior issues and to socialize her properly. I when from having a bird that would attack anyone that came near, slow to adapt, destructive, scream and etc. The same bird is now way more happy overall and accept new things almost instantly, no longer scared of new people and things and that anyone could pick her up without her being terrified of people. She also talks way more and way more willing to explore and learn new things. Plus she rarely screams anymore. She practically stay on my shoulder when outside. When I take her to the vet she actually greet everyone that come through the door with a Hello and she hate being at the vet, but she accepts it anyways. When they are raised on not having a routine and some unpredictability, they are less likey to have anxiety and stress issues overall and accept training and new things much faster as a result.

With breeding yes you have to keep a routine to get a good consistent yield. To control hormonal/nesting behavior light cycle and wake and sleep time is critical. Also making sure bird get at least 11 to 12 hours a sleep daily to keep healthy. Plus a proper diet daily also. That just obvious. Just remember Balance is always key.

As far as adapting a older bird to new routines and traveling. Yes it can be done and yes you can free flight train and travel with them despite what the pet tubers state. You have to think like therapist and get past the barriers. In other-words it a lot harder to work with a older bird then a baby, but it can be done. I don't take word for words what others states. I just look at Baby to remind me anything possible if you are willing to take the time and put in the effort. She when from could not even walk through the doorway without having to worry I might cause her to have a heart attack and would have to abort and try again later to keep her from getting to stress out, to the point she can free fly and goes with me outside anywhere without a carrier, or having to plan a hour before.

Now not going to get into child development, or addict behavior as this thread would be pages long.

 

[bigfellasdad]

Nobodies life has that must structure surely! I can't even let enzo sleep when we lose light as sometimes during the year she wouldn't interact at all as the days in winter are so short... surely a balanced healthy life is more important.

The thing is--- I have very limited hours during the work-week during which I can interact with her while still getting her those 12 hours of sleep. She HAS to have at least 3-4 hours out of her cage/interacting (minimum) and if I didn't stick to that routine, she wouldn't get enough sleep, OR she would get too little interaction. When I work 7:30- 3 or 4, I have to have a set schedule for our time together or she would get the short-end of the stick.

Weekends are much more free-style--she just gets up at 7 instead of 5, but she still is ready for dinner by 4 and in bed by 6 or so. For cockatoos, that sleep and interaction is SO crucial.

You do realise your bird will sleep a lot of the time when you are away from the home, Enzo certainly does. During the winter months I was finding I was waking Enzo up when i came home from work, now I have a lamp come on gradually at dusk and it goes off gradually at 8:30pm. Even when I work from home, as I am now, Enzo is fast asleep on the bathroom shower surround, she will nap for an hor or two if im quiet enough. I realise she is supposed t oget 10-12hrs per night, but in her world she get 10hrs at night and a few hours in the day. I wish i was a parrot!!!!

 

[bigfellasdad]

Oh, I don’t believe in strict routines at all, and my vet confirmed it.

Of course you have to feed your bird around a certain schedule, but everything else...you’re the boss, not him. Start training your bird to come out of the cage 11AM every morning, and you’ll pay hell when you don’t.

I know! Enzo is up at 7:30am, when i get up. On the very rare occations i get the chance to have a lie in, i maybe get 15 minutes extra until the 'dad, Dad, DAD..COME HERE' chorus along with Enzo doing my alarm clock and kettle sounds... I dont mind of course, small price to pay.

Where i DO mind is when im working overtime and get to bed at 5am.... thats 205minutes of sleep for me, and Enzo is awake and excited for the day

 

[Scott]

I've long had an uneven approach to routine as result of my weekly variable work schedule. The structured aspect is they receive essentials of food/water at reliable intervals, while "wake up" times and cage/room maintenance is subject to change. Have not changed much post retirement as the process works for all.

 

[noodles123]

When I talk about the importance of routine, I am not talking about all of the details I listed (OP asked for what we do, and that generally is my day but when those things happen in a different order or if I have to feed her in a different location she is totally fine with it)--- I am mainly talking about sleep, breakfast/dinner, and the importance of predictability on things like car-trips. The rest is inconsequential.-- oh, and at least a few hours out of the cage daily (times may vary)

I know it varies--- My whole point is that routine doesn't impact all birds in the same way. For mine, no routine for her years prior to living with me led her to be anxious and nuerotic/plucking. Once we started a routine, this behavior stopped almost completely and she was a calmer bird--- less phobic and more relaxed in general...So, lack of routine in a young bird doesn't necessarily work for all (as Noodles was raised without one and she came to me phobic and on anxiety meds as an adult bird without any previous structure in her life). Our routine has actually solved most of these problems (off meds, no longer plucking etc), and she is still flexible if something changes...She doesn't have the behavior issues she used to have and she doesn't have crazy expectations because I have taught her to be independent etc---She expects to eat and wake up at certain times, but if I am late or whatever, she handles it like a champ. It just has been helpful in controlling her overall anxiety--- she hasn't become obsessed with the routine, but long-term, it has really calmed her down and increased her pro-social behavior/adventurous spirit lol.

Sadly, Noodles doesn't nap--- I had hoped she would, but I used to live-stream her for a year and she was mostly moving around all day when I was gone at work. I know they can sleep with their eyes open, but she was active.

 

[Ira7]

My avian vet told me to forget strict routine...after I first said that’s how I was planning to raise Archie anyway, a 9 months YNA.

He basically confirmed that although Archie wants to think he’s the boss, it’s important for him to know I’M the boss, even if it’s subtle things like when he gets his main meals (not seed). This also extends to out of cage time. It’s my decision, not his, but of course I base my decisions on what I see going on and how he seems to feel and how he’s behaving. I never react to his rare squawks (thank God they’re so rare now)

In other words, tie yourself into a strict routine and your bird will make your life miserable when you don’t/can’t follow it. Follow a flexible routine, and you’ll both be happier.

 

[Stitchthestitch]

I apologise for starting a contraversal subject. It was not my intention to start up any disagreements. I was just wondering about how structured (or unstructured as the general concensus seems to be) a routine should be.

I'm getting a new baby so I'm mostly going to go down an unstructured route I think.

Thank you to every one who has given me an insite into their daily life, it has really helped me to get a better grasp on it.

 

[Scott]

I apologise for starting a contraversal subject. It was not my intention to start up any disagreements. I was just wondering about how structured (or unstructured as the general concensus seems to be) a routine should be.

I'm getting a new baby so I'm mostly going to go down an unstructured route I think.

Thank you to every one who has given me an insite into their daily life, it has really helped me to get a better grasp on it.

Nothing controversial about your question! A lot of great insight and exchange of information. I am glad the discussion helped you determine a plan of action.