My last resort ):

[Lullx]

I am reaching my wits' end with my green cheek, Genevieve. She is almost 2 years old, the smartest of my birds (with my baby grey quickly catching up), and also the one that causes the most trouble. She has a serious attitude problem and it has only gotten worse lately. Most of the time she behaves well enough, or at least the trouble she gets into isn't really dangerous or harmful.
But once in a while (and increasing in frequency lately) she will get hyper-aggressive towards my african grey, who is 11 months old and still quite the baby.

Genevieve will sometimes fly directly at Nephele the grey and try to attack her, which causes poor Nilly to take off and try to fly away (her wings haven't grown in yet from when the aviary clipped them, so she doesn't get very far before crashing onto the floor). No one has been hurt yet, but I know it's only a matter of time before: 1) Genevieve bites and hurts Nilly, 2) causes Nilly to hurt herself as she tries to escape, or, my worst fear, 3) Nilly finally has enough and sticks up for herself, which would potentially lead to Genevieve being seriously hurt or worse.

When Nilly is in her cage, Genevieve will sometimes fly over to her cage and try to pick a fight through the bars. I run over as soon as I see her start to land on the cage and make her step up with a dowel. I can't use my own hands for recovery anymore, otherwise I get bitten very hard by the little gremlin. There have been a couple of times where I wasn't quite fast enough and the two engage in a beak battle through the cage bars, but no one has been hurt yet. When Nilly is outside of her cage, Genevieve will dive right at her on purpose. I also use the same dowel perch when someone flies up out of reach where they know they aren't supposed to be (like on top of my curtains).

I had been training her to avoid going near Nilly's cage at all, and for the most part I thought it was working! We were doing SO well. No incidents in quite some time...

Last night, I was sitting with Nephele on the couch, spending some time with her before I switch and grab the smaller birds to sit with them for a bit before I put them all to bed for the night. Before I can put Nilly back, Genevieve flies over to my right shoulder and starts eyeing Nilly, who is perched on my lower right arm. I deflect by cupping my left hand around Genevieve, who loves to snuggle and nap in my hand. She settles down and ignores Nilly, snuggling her beak into my hand. This has been happening a lot lately, which made me think we were all making progress: Both get my attention and snuggles, both are happy and ignoring each other. We're all sitting there for several minutes with no issues.

All of a sudden and seemingly without warning (if there was a warning, I missed it), Genevieve chomps down on my hand in an attempt to make me pull my hand away, and she tries going around my hand to get at Nilly. I don't move, so she grabs onto the back of my hand with her beak and bites me so hard that I accidentally yell out and scare everyone. I have a bruise and it welted up quite a bit. I was also bleeding in three places and she must have gotten a nerve, because my entire left hand and partway up my arm was screaming in pain for the rest of the night. It still kind of hurts now ):
It was close to bed time anyway, so I immediately put everyone away in their cages and shut down the living room for the night.

I've been doing everything I can think of to curb this behavior over the last several months, but after last night I've realized that I will have to clip Genevieve's wings. I can't keep putting it off. I feel so horrible about taking the gift of flight away from her (she LOVES to fly), but I would feel even worse if either her or Nephele got hurt. My poor hands also can't keep taking this sort of abuse.
She is such a good bird until she gets jealous of Nilly. I give them equal time with me, but it's not enough for her. Any time with Nilly is too much according to Genevieve.

I couldn't stop crying last night after I put them away. Thinking of clipping her wings is really breaking my heart, but I don't know what else I can do at this point. Little gremlin thinks she is much bigger than she is, and her attitude really needs to be put in check before a tragedy occurs. I will never forgive myself if either of them get hurt because I was too scared to give Genevieve a trim.

I guess I'm writing this to make sure I'm taking the right course of action by clipping her wings. She is so aggressive sometimes. I know a lot of it is hormones, but she's going to end up getting herself maimed or killed if I don't do something. At the very least, clipping will make it a little more difficult for her to go over and bother Nilly.

My heart hurts so much right now.

 

[Birdman666]

You can clip so that she's semi-flighted, and she'll still get around just fine...

And wings grow back, if and when you stop pulling attitude little bird...

But you can't have attacking birds. It's a safety issue.

DO NOT FEEL BAD. YOU'RE DOING THE RIGHT THING, FOR THE RIGHT REASONS...

Hey, I just clipped a bird that I used to FREE FLY, for the same reasons, seasonal territiorial behaviors... and she can (and does) still fly across the room from her cage to my shoulder. So, no real harm done...

 

[Lullx]

You can clip so that she's semi-flighted, and she'll still get around just fine...

And wings grow back, if and when you stop pulling attitude little bird...

But you can't have attacking birds. It's a safety issue.

DO NOT FEEL BAD. YOU'RE DOING THE RIGHT THING, FOR THE RIGHT REASONS...

Hey, I just clipped a bird that I used to FREE FLY, for the same reasons, seasonal territiorial behaviors... and she can (and does) still fly across the room from her cage to my shoulder. So, no real harm done...

Thank you for the reassurance. I guess I'm mostly dreading the resentment she'll probably harbor towards me for a bit after the deed is done. I was going to see about taking her to a groomer or the vet to get it done so she's mad at them instead of me, but it feels like I should be the one to do it. I clip my budgies wings regularly for safety reasons and I've had to clip my cockatiel a few times. I dislike doing it, but it really is for the best in those cases. It took me a few weeks to work up to doing theirs initially. Took some close calls for me to finally realize it HAD to be done.

Genevieve has become a strong flyer and I know she'll be able to get around with clipped wings. I just have this crushing sense of guilt surrounding this decision. I think I'll take her in for a nice misty shower with me then do it. Maybe that will make it less traumatic for her (she loooves getting misted in the shower with me). Luckily she enjoys being toweled, which will make a little easier. Or should I do the shower after to get back into her good graces haha

 

[Birdman666]

Nothing to feel guilty about, crushing or otherwise.

If you behaved, bird, I wouldn't have to do this.

You are exercising your parrontal responsibilities. YOU ARE DOING THE RESPONSIBLE THING.

 

[Lullx]

I think she knows something is up. She wouldn't come out of her cage and even gave me a "leave me alone" nibble when I went to have her step up onto my hand.
Perhaps she's still salty from last night even?

 

[Skittys_Daddy]

This is coming from someone who is largely opposed to wing-clipping. Personally, I think clipping her wings IS the right course of action.

As much as we might hate doing it, sometimes it's for their own good. I had a couple of budgies who were never let out of their cage before I got them and as such had not learned to properly fly. I liked to let them out of the cage but the kept smacking into the ceiling or wall.

I get how you feel, I truly do. Even when you know you are doing the right thing, you still feel like crap.

I had to go through this recently with Skittles. He was chewing on his cuddle huts.
It broke my heart to take away Skittles cuddle hut because I know how much he loved it. But sometimes, as farents, we have to do what is in their best interest. I would not have been able to forgive myself if he died from that. So I found an alternative.

When I had Peaches, my cockatiel, Skittles would attack her and she would not defend herself (and she was smaller than Skitty). He hurt her foot one time real bad and I decided I could not have them out at the same time. So Peaches had the run of the bedroom and Skitty was out here in the living room.

Not all people can provide that alternative as some parrots need constant supervision, but Peaches did not.

Again, let me reiterate, you are doing the right thing. Remember that. If it makes any difference, have someone else clip her wings so she doesn't associate your hands with wing clipping. That may help ease the guilt.

 

[gracebowen]

I generally oppose clipping as well but in this case I agree it is the right choice. The feathers will grow back. Ax Mark said with a light clip she can still fly some.

 

[Lullx]

@Skittys_Daddy;

I remember the happy hut fiasco! How does Skittles like the new alternative?

Either way, Genevieve is going to be upset with me. She's very smart and even if I have someone else do it, she'll still know I was behind it. She loves hands and I can't really see that changing, even with a clipping. I'm going to do it tomorrow morning so she can sulk for the rest of the day and get it out of her system.

When I move, I'll be keeping them in separate rooms. It's just not realistic in my current apartment, otherwise I would spare her wings and just keep them away from each other ):

-

@gracebowen;

I also only believe in clipping if it's a safety issue, which this obviously is. Sigh. I've been agonizing over this decision for months. Everytime I would start to work up the nerve to do it, she would behave really well and improve in leaps and bounds. I really thought we'd be able to get past this jealousy thing without the big clip, but alas.

Thank you both for the reassurance.

 

[Flboy]

I agree, clip! And I am normally dead set against!

 

[rosembers]

You sound like you have given your best efforts to fix the situation, which is awesome that you have devoted that kind of time and training to your birds! I agree with the other posts, she probably needs a partial clip (partial clips allow for better balancing and some light flight). For the best interest of birds in general, I am very strongly against clipping unless it's an absolute last resort, and you are definitely making a loving decision for the safety of your birds. Good luck.

 

[Skittys_Daddy]

Skittles hasn't taken quite to the new condo hut entirely, but he is not resentful to me either. It took him a little while to adjust, but he did and he's doing well.

Same will be true for your Genevieve. It may be difficult for you both at first, but she'll adjust as will you.

I just pampered Skittles like crazy when I made the switch to decrease the likelihood of any resentment.

 

[Bandespresso]

This sounds silly but, before you take her to get clipped, take Genevive into a completely different room and have some one-on-one time and explain to her what is going to happen and why you are doing it. Give her the full-blown rundown of the situation. Tell her you love her very much and that it is for her own good. I honestly think that talking to animals like you would another human helps them understand what you are feeling (even if they don't actually understand your words, they feed off of your emotions) and helps you more than anything. It will be okay and it is for the best! You are one of the most dedicated and loving parronts I know; don't you for a second feel guilty about this!!

 

[Skittys_Daddy]

I don't think that sounds silly at all. Animals respond to us and I think they understand us better than we think. While we may not be able to communicate directly with them like we can to each other, they still can sense emotions in us.

 

[Lullx]

This sounds silly but, before you take her to get clipped, take Genevive into a completely different room and have some one-on-one time and explain to her what is going to happen and why you are doing it. Give her the full-blown rundown of the situation. Tell her you love her very much and that it is for her own good. I honestly think that talking to animals like you would another human helps them understand what you are feeling (even if they don't actually understand your words, they feed off of your emotions) and helps you more than anything. It will be okay and it is for the best! You are one of the most dedicated and loving parronts I know; don't you for a second feel guilty about this!!

I don't think it sounds silly at all. In fact I do usually talk them through whatever it is I'm doing, and I do notice a difference from the times I don't. I'm going to be doing it in a little while, I hope. Got everything all set up and am just waiting for around noonish to take her into the shower since it's a little chilly in the mornings here (and I haven't eaten yet).

I also have nutriberries on standby and plan to spend most of the day with her to try to make up for the clipping (if she wants anything to do with me today, that is haha). I don't think it'll be traumatic for her at all, just very annoying and maybe a teensy bit scary.

Thank you, again.

 

[Lullx]

Well, I did it. Was physically much easier than I had anticipated. I took her into the shower with me and let her stay in the water as long as she wanted to. Then I wrapped her up in a hand towel and got to work. Took me a bit because she was wriggling a little, but there was no biting or screaming or any other dramatics.
When she did get loose when I was nearly done, she tried to fly around the bathroom but immediately plopped in the sink.

I decided that I had to give her a deeper clip than originally planned because she is so strong. I'm glad I did, because she is indeed still able to make it from the top of her cage to anywhere else in the room, including Nilly's cage still
But I'm hoping that this clip will help her settle down and become a little more docile. So far, she's still pretty sassy and it's too early to tell if the clip will have its intended effect.

Thank you all again for the encouragement and kind words.

Luckily, she isn't angry at me. However, she does want to be left alone with her cagemate for a bit, so I'm obliging.
She's handling this way better than me haha. I'm still a bit of a wreck. Seeing her beautiful feathers on the counter was really heartbreaking, but I'm glad that it's over with and we can start this new chapter.

 

[Hawk]

Clip or partial clip. I had to do same with my Senni ( The Evil Terrorist) as
he chases my Grey as well. Apparently those little guys have a
beef for African greys.

 

[MonicaMc]

Clipping her wings doesn't change her behavior.... unfortunately, she still needs training.



Just wondering, but when Genevieve flew to your shoulder while you had Nilly, was there any chance you could have rewarded her for being on your shoulder (and "ignoring" Nilly) instead of blocking her from Nilly?

As in, trying to make it a positive experience for them to be near each other without physically touching?

 

[Bandespresso]

Clipping her wings doesn't change her behavior.... unfortunately, she still needs training.

It won't change her behavior but it is for her own safety. She can now successfully train her without worrying about either bird getting hurt or worse. There are some folks who think that clipping is a magic solution that makes all their troubles disappear but I'm fairly certain that isn't the case here.

I'm glad that she took it well. She definitely still seems to be her happy and sassy self! It has been some days, have you made any progress with your little gremlin?