My Vet Horror Story from 2005

[plax]

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Below is my account of events from an emergency veterinary visit for my Hyacinth Macaw, Zaffer, which occurred in late 2005. For my own security and to avoid any legal liability, t[/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]he names, locations and addresses have been changed or otherwise concealed.[/FONT][/FONT] The day after the ordeal occurred, I emailed my account of events, as a complaint, to the attending veterinarian.

Since there is a 10000 character limitation on forum posts, I'll break my account of events into two parts. I will then post the veterinarian's point-by-point response in multiple parts as well.

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Part 1 of 2:

ATTN: Stan Stone, DVM[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Below is my account of the events occurring on 11/12/05: [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]
============================== [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]
Saturday, 12 November 2005 [/FONT]
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This morning I was cuddling Zaf against my chest. I happened to have on one of those shirts with snaps instead of buttons. I guess I wasn't paying enough attention and Zaf grabbed one of the snap parts and pulled it off and into his lower mandible so he could play with it. When I felt the 'pop', I immediately realized he'd gotten the snap piece off, so I began to probe the inside of his beak with my finger in an attempt to retrieve the object so he wouldn't swallow it. But it wasn't in his mouth and I couldn't find it on the floor or anywhere in the area of the room we were in. I became quite worried that Zaf may have swallowed to piece and that his digestive acids would begin to metabolize the heavy metals in the snap piece, and I was especially concerned that the piece may contain zinc, which is horribly toxic to birds. [/FONT]
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I probably called every avian vet clinic in the area. But it was Saturday, so most of the clinics' phones were answered by automated voices instructing those with an emergency to call the local emergency vet clinic (which I did as well). I spoke with a vet at the Emergency Vet Clinic (Dr. Beck), but unfortunately she had limited experience with birds and offered to try to locate a more qualified vet for me. I asked her to please go ahead and do so, then I proceeded to call the remaining numbers for avian vet clinics on my list. [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]
The last call I made was to the Uptown Veterinary Hospital in Neartown, WA. They were open today (Saturday) and a vet was available. I explained the situation to the receptionist which she in turn relayed to the vet. The vet, Dr. Stan Stone, DVM, advised her to tell me to bring Zaf in as soon as possible to be x-rayed. I loaded Zaf in his carrier and we departed for the clinic. For reference, Dr. Stone advertises himself as an avian vet. As far as I know, he's only ABVP-certified in dogs and cats, not birds. I'm unsure whether he's even got an AAV certification. This may not be a large issue, but in this case I feel it's worth mentioning. [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]
I arrived at the clinic, filled out the admission form, and released Zaf from his carrier. He climbed onto my arm and then up onto my shoulder (his favorite spot where he feels the most secure). We were escorted back into an examining room. Shortly thereafter, Dr. Stone stepped in and escorted us into the procedure area. I assisted Dr. Stone in placing Zaf in a towel and was then asked by him to step out of the procedure room and back into the hallway/examining room area. I was extremely uncomfortable with the request, but I reluctantly complied. Every few seconds poor Zaf would let out a cry... I was in mental agony worrying about him; I desperately wanted to be with him to offer comfort and assurance. Zaf's periodic yelps went on for at least 5 minutes. Then all of a sudden Zaf began screaming violently... I rushed into the procedure room to discover the technician engaged in a failed attempt to restrain Zaf on the x-ray platform -- she had absolutely no control of him and he was flopping all over the place! I ran to Zaf, we removed the bindings and I comforted him as best I could. [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]
I asked Dr. Stone whether they'd gotten at least one image. He replied "No." I found this 5 minute (plus) wrestling session with my poor dear friend (which rendered no usable result) difficult to accept. In my opinion, they clearly didn't have control of the situation. Consequently, Dr. Stone offered to anesthetize Zaf in order to immobilize him. I declined the offer. Because of their apparent inability to manage Zaf, I offered to hold him down on the x-ray platform while they snapped the image(s). Stone agreed. I requested the protective garments, including gloves, put them on and placed Zaf on his back on the platform... at this point Dr. Stone made the statement "if he bites through one of those gloves I'll have to add $150 to your bill." I acknowledged the remark. Dr. Stone then proceeded to successfully snap an x-ray image while I held Zaf on his back. I released Zaf and again comforted him as much as possible. [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]
The x-ray image was processed and viewed by Dr. Stone who told me that he could see the snap piece. I asked if it was still in Zaf's crop. Stone replied, "yes." I asked what our options were at this point. Stone said the object had to be removed. I asked about the procedure... Stone said he would anesthetize Zaf then flush out his crop. I was extremely hesitant to approve the anesthetization and I basically stood there awfulizing for several minutes. Stone then asserted that if the procedure were not done, Zaf would die. I asked Stone if he'd ever had birds fail to revive from anesthesia. He said, "of course I have... and not just birds... but all vets will tell you the same thing." I waited several more minutes unable to decide what to do. I kept thinking of Stone's statement that Zaf would die, so I very reluctantly agreed to the procedure.[/FONT]

 

[plax]

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Part 2 of 2:

I was overwhelmingly devastated by the situation...I was worrying about Zaf more than anyone can easily imagine! I kissed Zaf... Stone then came at him with the towel. Zaf screamed horribly. I felt so helpless. [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]
They secured a gas tube/mask to Zaf's face and he went under. The receptionist helped connect a heart monitor to him as well. Stone then proceeded to irrigate his crop while I sat on a chair watching the whole thing. The process seemed to last forever and all that came out were pieces of macadamia nuts. Twice during the procedure, Stone would remove Zaf from the operating table (disconnecting the anesthesia tube and monitor gear) to take more x-rays (the first with Zaf on his back -- like the original -- and the second with Zaf on his side). After the first subsequent x-ray was processed it was easy to see that the blip was in the exact same position as it was on the initial image. I asked Stone to confirm that the object was still in his crop... [/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]this [/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]time[/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif], though, Stone said "no, it's not in his crop." That's right, Stone said it wasn't in his crop any longer despite that the object's position on the original x-ray agreed perfectly with its position on the subsequent x-ray, and despite that he'd initially told me the object was in Zaf's crop based upon the initial image. Just for confirmation, I asked Stone if the snap piece had traveled beyond Zaf's crop... Stone replied "yes, I'm afraid it has." After the second x-ray exposure, they placed Zaf back on the procedure table and Stone probed Zaf some more. Stone then instructed his assistant to move Zaf back to the x-ray platform again and to place Zaf on his side (this time) for yet a third x-ray image in which the view would be perpendicular to the previous two identical exposures. They did so and snapped the image. While the last x-ray image was being processed, I asked Stone what was indicated next since he'd said moments before that the snap piece had progressed beyond Zaf's crop... Stone replied "lets wait for the next x-ray." Thereafter, when viewing the last x-ray image, Stone asked me if Zaf were microchipped. I immediately felt like beating my head against the wall!!! Yes, he [/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]is[/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif] microchipped! [/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]The[/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif] blip [/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]on [/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]the [/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]image [/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]was [/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]the[/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif] microchip[/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif], not part of a shirt snap. [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]
Zaf came out of the anesthesia and I brought him home. He's still attempting to readjust but is clearly not himself. I first blame myself for not thinking of his microchip and reporting it to Stone -- I was [/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]so[/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif] stressed, though, and had even forgotten to bring my wallet. It would have been nice if one of the questions on the admission form had asked if the pet to be treated were microchipped, but there was no such question. [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]
The last thing that I want to convey here is that after the procedure and Stone's sudden realization that the blip might be a microchip, he had the nerve to admonish me. He stated that if I'd left them alone and not interrupted their initial effort to take x-rays, they would have taken images from both angles and consequently identified the blip as a microchip, thus ruling out the need for the crop irrigation procedure. To this statement of his, I ask the following: If, absent the cited interruption/interference from me, the 90 degree x-ray image would have truly been Dr. Stone's chosen course during the initial moments of examination, why did he not take a perpendicular x-ray image of Zaf earlier during the period of anesthesia rather than at the very end of the procedure as a last resort? Moreover, one would think an experienced veterinarian who sees avian patients on a regular basis would be familiar with the pattern an Avid microchip presents on an x-ray image of a bird. At the very least a questionable blip approximately resembling a metallic grain of rice in the breast area of a bird should be enough to prompt a competent avian vet to ask the bird's owner if the bird has an implanted microchip, especially when the purpose for the visit is an emergency assessment of whether or not the bird has ingested a small potentially toxic metal object that may be in the same region. Common sense dictates that this question should have been asked before any invasive exploratory procedure was performed on my bird. For this failure, I blame Dr. Stone. [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]
Sadly, I'm left with the suspicion that Dr. Stone knew at the outset (meaning once he had viewed the first x-ray -- [/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]the [/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]attainment [/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]of[/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif] which [/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]I[/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif] had [/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]to [/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]facilitate[/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif] simply because they were unable to secure Zaf's position on the x-ray platform) that the blip was probably a microchip. Although I can't prove it, I really have the feeling that Dr. Stone wanted to perform the procedure so he could charge me accordingly. If true, he unnecessarily risked my dearly loved bird's life, exposed him to more x-ray emissions than would otherwise be necessary, and stressed him beyond belief! Zaf is an extra sensitive bird to begin with... I can only hope he'll not be emotionally scarred by the ordeal and will return to his exceptionally sweet and loving personality very soon. This has been one of the worst days of my life. [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]
Tony *******[/FONT]

 

[plax]

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Vet's response, Part 1 or 3:

Mr ********,[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Attached to your message are comments that I made which reflect my account of the events on 11-12-05…… I am sorry you are unhappy with the events….. giving you and Zaf prompt attention like we did put us behind schedule that day and robbed me of 3 hours of time with my kids….. if you think I wanted to spend my Saturday ripping you off you are so sadly mistaken….. I only wanted to act promptly and spare Zaf from the horrible experience of heavy metal poisoning.[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Stan Stone, DVM[/FONT]

[FONT=Tahoma, sans-serif]-----Original Message-----
[/FONT][FONT=Tahoma, sans-serif]From:[/FONT][FONT=Tahoma, sans-serif] Tony ******** [mailto:[email protected]]
[/FONT][FONT=Tahoma, sans-serif]Sent:[/FONT][FONT=Tahoma, sans-serif] Sunday, November 13, 2005 11:30 AM
[/FONT][FONT=Tahoma, sans-serif]To:[/FONT][FONT=Tahoma, sans-serif] [email protected]
[/FONT][FONT=Tahoma, sans-serif]Subject:[/FONT][FONT=Tahoma, sans-serif] emergency procedure performed on Hyacinth Macaw "Zaffer" on 11/12/05 (ref: acct# 8224)[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]ATTN: Stan Stone, DVM[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Below is my account of the events occurring on 11/12/05: [/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]==============================[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Saturday, 12 November 2005[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]This morning I was cuddling Zaf against my chest. I happened to have on one of those shirts with snaps instead of buttons. I guess I wasn't paying enough attention and Zaf grabbed one of the snap parts and pulled it off and into his lower mandible so he could play with it. When I felt the 'pop', I immediately realized he'd gotten the snap piece off, so I began to probe the inside of his beak with my finger in an attempt to retrieve the object so he wouldn't swallow it. But it wasn't in his mouth and I couldn't find it on the floor or anywhere in the area of the room we were in. I became quite worried that Zaf may have swallowed to piece and that his digestive acids would begin to metabolize the heavy metals in the snap piece, and I was especially concerned that the piece may contain zinc, which is horribly toxic to birds.[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]I probably called every avian vet clinic in the area. But it was Saturday, so most of the clinics' phones were answered by automated voices instructing those with an emergency to call the local emergency vet clinic (which I did as well). I spoke with a vet at the Emergency Vet Clinic (Dr. Beck), but unfortunately she had limited experience with birds and offered to try to locate a more qualified vet for me. I asked her to please go ahead and do so, then I proceeded to call the remaining numbers for avian vet clinics on my list.[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]The last call I made was to the Uptown Veterinary Hospital in Neartown, WA. They were open today (Saturday) and a vet was available. I explained the situation to the receptionist which she in turn relayed to the vet. The vet, Dr. Stan Stone, DVM, advised her to tell me to bring Zaf in as soon as possible to be x-rayed. I loaded Zaf in his carrier and we departed for the clinic. For reference, Dr. Stone advertises himself as an avian vet[/FONT][ESW1][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]. As far as I know, he's only ABVP-certified in dogs and cats, not birds. I'm unsure whether he's even got an AAV certification. This may not be a large issue, but in this case I feel it's worth mentioning.[/FONT]

 

[plax]

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Vet's response, Part 2 of 3:

I arrived at the clinic, filled out the admission form, and released Zaf from his carrier. He climbed onto my arm and then up onto my shoulder (his favorite spot where he feels the most secure). We were escorted back into an examining room. Shortly thereafter, Dr. Stone stepped in and escorted us into the procedure area. I assisted Dr. Stone in placing Zaf in a towel and was then asked by him to step out of the procedure room and back into the hallway/examining room area. I was extremely uncomfortable with the request, but I reluctantly complied. Every few seconds poor Zaf would let out a cry... I was in mental agony worrying about him; I desperately wanted to be with him to offer comfort and assurance. Zaf's periodic yelps went on for at least 5 minutes. Then all of a sudden Zaf began screaming violently... I rushed into the procedure room to discover the technician engaged in a failed attempt to restrain Zaf on the x-ray platform -- she had absolutely no control of him and he was flopping all over the place! I ran to Zaf, we removed the bindings and I comforted him as best I could.[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]I asked Dr. Stone whether they'd gotten at least one image. He replied "No." I found this 5 minute (plus) wrestling session with my poor dear friend (which rendered no usable result) difficult to accept. In my opinion, they clearly didn't have control of the situation. Consequently, Dr. Stone offered to anesthetize Zaf in order to immobilize him. I declined the offer. Because of their apparent inability to manage Zaf, I offered to hold him down on the x-ray platform while they snapped the image(s). Stone agreed. I requested the protective garments, including gloves, put them on and placed Zaf on his back on the platform... at this point Dr. Stone made the statement "if he bites through one of those gloves I'll have to add $150 to your bill." I acknowledged the remark. Dr. Stone then proceeded to successfully snap an x-ray image while I held Zaf on his back. I released Zaf and again comforted him as much as possible.[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]The x-ray image was processed and viewed by Dr. Stone who told me that he could see the snap piece. I asked if it was still in Zaf's crop. Stone replied, "yes." I asked what our options were at this point. Stone said the object had to be removed. I asked about the procedure... Stone said he would anesthetize Zaf then flush out his crop. I was extremely hesitant to approve the anesthetization and I basically stood there awfulizing for several minutes. Stone then asserted that if the procedure were not done, Zaf would die. I asked Stone if he'd ever had birds fail to revive from anesthesia. He said, "of course I have... and not just birds... but all vets will tell you the same thing.[/FONT][ESW2][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]" I waited several more minutes unable to decide what to do. I kept thinking of Stone's statement that Zaf would die, so I very reluctantly agreed to the procedure. [/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]I was overwhelmingly devastated by the situation...I was worrying about Zaf more than anyone can easily imagine! I kissed Zaf... Stone then came at him with the towel. Zaf screamed horribly. I felt so helpless.[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]They secured a gas tube/mask to Zaf's face and he went under. The receptionist helped connect a heart monitor to him as well. Stone then proceeded to irrigate his crop while I sat on a chair watching the whole thing. The process seemed to last forever and all that came out were pieces of macadamia nuts. Twice during the procedure, Stone would remove Zaf from the operating table (disconnecting the anesthesia tube and monitor gear) to take more x-rays (the first with Zaf on his back -- like the original -- and the second with Zaf on his side). After the first subsequent x-ray was processed it was easy to see that the blip was in the exact same position as it was on the initial image. I asked Stone to confirm that the object was still in his crop... [/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]this[/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]time[/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif], though, Stone said "no, it's not in his crop."[/FONT][ESW3][FONT=Arial, sans-serif] That's right, Stone said it wasn't in his crop any longer despite that the object's position on the original x-ray agreed perfectly with it's position on the subsequent x-ray, and despite that he'd initially told me the object was in Zaf's crop based upon the initial image. Just for confirmation, I asked Stone if the snap piece had traveled beyond Zaf's crop... Stone replied "yes, I'm afraid it has." After the second x-ray exposure, they placed Zaf back on the procedure table and Stone probed Zaf some more. Stone then instructed his assistant to move Zaf back to the x-ray platform again and to place Zaf on his side (this time) for yet a third x-ray image in which the view would be perpendicular to the previous two identical exposures. They did so and snapped the image. While the last x-ray image was being processed, I asked Stone what was indicated next since he'd said moments before that the snap piece had progressed beyond Zaf's crop... Stone replied "lets wait for the next x-ray." Thereafter, when viewing the last x-ray image, Stone asked me if Zaf were microchipped. I immediately felt like beating my head against the wall!!! Yes, he [/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]is[/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif] microchipped! [/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]The [/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]blip [/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]on [/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]the [/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]image [/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]was [/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]the [/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]microchip[/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif], not part of a shirt snap. [/FONT]

 

[plax]

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Vets response, Part 3 of 3:

Zaf came out of the anesthesia and I brought him home. He's still attempting to readjust but is clearly not himself. I first blame myself for not thinking of his microchip and reporting it to Stone -- I was [/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]so[/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif] stressed, though, and had even forgotten to bring my wallet. It would have been nice if one of the questions on the admission form had asked if the pet to be treated were microchipped, but there was no such question.[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]The last thing that I want to convey here is that after the procedure and Stone's sudden realization that the blip might be a microchip, he had the nerve to admonish me. He stated that if I'd left them alone and not interrupted their initial effort to take x-rays, they would have taken images from both angles and consequently identified the blip as a microchip, thus ruling out the need for the crop irrigation procedure. To this statement of his, I ask the following: If, absent the cited interruption/interference from me, the 90 degree x-ray image would have truly been Dr. Stone's chosen course during the initial moments of examination, why did he not take a perpendicular x-ray image of Zaf earlier during the period of anesthesia rather than at the very end of the procedure as a last resort? [/FONT][ESW4][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Moreover, one would think an experienced veterinarian who sees avian patients on a regular basis would be familiar with the pattern an Avid microchip presents on an x-ray image of a bird. At the very least a questionable blip approximately resembling a metallic grain of rice in the breast area [/FONT][ESW5][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]of a bird should be enough to prompt a competent avian vet to ask the bird's owner if the bird has an implanted microchip, especially when the purpose for the visit is an emergency assessment of whether or not the bird has ingested a small potentially toxic metal object that may be in the same region. Common sense dictates that this question should have been asked before any exploratory procedure was done to my bird. For this failure, I blame Dr. Stone[/FONT][ESW6][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]. [/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Sadly, I'm left with the suspicion that Dr. Stone knew at the outset (meaning once he had viewed the first x-ray -- [/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]the[/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif] attainment [/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]of [/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]which [/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]I [/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]had [/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]to [/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]facilitate[/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif] simply because they were unable to secure Zaf's position on the x-ray platform) that the blip was probably a microchip. [/FONT][ESW7][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Although I can't prove it, I really have the feeling that Dr. Stone wanted to perform the procedure so he could charge me accordingly[/FONT][ESW8][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]. If true, he unnecessarily risked my dearly loved bird's life, exposed him to more x-ray emissions than would otherwise be necessary, and stressed him beyond belief! Zaf is an extra sensitive bird to begin with... I can only hope he'll not be emotionally scarred by the ordeal and will return to his exceptionally sweet and loving personality very soon. This has been one of the worst days of my life.[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Tony ********[/FONT]


[ESW1] I don’t know what advertisement you are referring to, but listing the species one sees in one’s practice is not the same as advertising as an “avian vet”…… an “avian vet” is someone who sees ONLY birds and is board certified as a poultry specialist or a pet bird specialist…. by the way, ABVP certification is very hard to obtain….. I am proud to be one of 4 doctors in the whole state with that certification, of which only one of us is certified as an avian specialist, and she is no longer in private practice….. the result is there are NO board certified avian doctors in the state……

[ESW2] not my exact words…… but the jest of the message was that after 25 years of experience I have seen my share of animals die under anesthesia and any one who practices pet bird and small animal medicine for 25 years will confirm they have had similar experiences….. I also assured you that I anesthetize birds, dogs and cats all the time and that I was competent it could be done as safely as possible, and the risk of not anesthetizing the bird to remove the metal foreign body was worse than he risk of anesthesia

[ESW3] I said it wasn’t in the crop, not because of the position on the second x-ray, but because I didn’t see it in the crop when I looked thru the scope….. remember, we passed a scope in an attempt to retrieve the foreign body…. After the scoping, I said it may have gotten flushed into the proventriculus and that was the impetus for the second and third x-ray.

[ESW4] Neither myself or my staff remember this question coming from you…… but I will gladly answer it now….. the answer is because you were so nervous about the time spent under anesthesia that I took this short cut to get on with the treatment since I had convinced myself there was a metal foreign body in the crop.

[ESW5] The crop, when full of food or fluid overlies the breast, so on the single ventrodorsal view one cannot distinguish where the “metallic grain for rice” is….. as I mentioned when viewing the x-ray, a snap chewed by a macaw and turned on edge would look cylindrical.

[ESW6] Hindsight is always 20-20.

[ESW7] This in nonsense!!!!!

[ESW8] This is nonsense too!

 

[JerseyWendy]

Wow Tony! I remember you telling me about all this, but I never knew how it had ended.

I am genuinely sorry you and Zaffer had to go through this unnecessary ordeal. I bet it took years off of you.

I also whole-heartedly agree that this "Avian vet" should have asked right away if Zaf was chipped.

Poor Zaffer! Even though this happened quite a few years ago, please do give him some lovin' from me today, would you, please.

 

[plax]

Thanks Wendy . I'll give him some lovin' from you... and rest assured that I always give him plenty of lovin' every day from me!!! .

I'm getting ready to post my point-by-point response to the vet now. Standby...

 

[plax]

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]My response to the vet, Part 1 of 3:
[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]From:[/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Uptown Veterinary Hospital[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]To:[/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif] Tony [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Cc:[/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif][email protected][/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Sent:[/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif] Monday, November 14, 2005 7:15 PM[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Subject:[/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif] RE: emergency procedure performed on Hyacinth Macaw "Zaffer" on 11/12/05 (ref: acct# 8224)[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Mr ********,[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Attached to your message are comments that I made which reflect my account of the events on 11-12-05…… I am sorry you are unhappy with the events….. giving you and Zaf prompt attention like we did put us behind schedule that day and robbed me of 3 hours of time with my kids….. if you think I wanted to spend my Saturday ripping you off you are so sadly mistaken….. I only wanted to act promptly and spare Zaf from the horrible experience of heavy metal poisoning.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Stan Stone, DVM[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]
Dr. Stone,[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]
Yes, I'm most certainly unhappy with the events. Specifically, I am unhappy with the anesthesia and crop irrigation "events" because they were dangerous to the point of being life-threatening and it was [/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]entirely[/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif] unnecessary for Zaffer to experience them. These procedures were easily avoidable and an experienced, fully competent veterinarian would have known this. It's improbable that a knowledgeable quality vet with a long-standing established practice, who regularly treats birds, and who regularly uses microchipping and x-ray imaging equipment at his or her practice would not recognize the characteristic appearance of an Avid microchip on an x-ray image. In fact, my guess is that there exists no [/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]reasonable[/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif] possibility that such a vet would miss this obvious indicator that a chip were present. If I'm wrong here then it seems my expectations of competency among those who provide medical services to our pets has suddenly become an unattainable disappointment in the real world.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]
If you had conducted yourself in the proper manner (i.e., viewed the initial x-ray image, noticed that the blip was consistent with the size, shape, density, and location of an implanted Avid microchip... and THEN at this point [/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]simply[/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif] asked[/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif] me[/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif] whether or not Zaffer was a microchipped bird and proceeded to scan the chip for conformation) the ordeal would have been avoided and I'd have been on my way home in short order with peace of mind and a safely examined parrot. You'd then have been able to spend the greater portion of that lost 3 hours with your kids (or whomever you wished). It should have been as simple as that and it was the only reasonable course of action given the situation.[/FONT]

 

[plax]

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]My response to the vet, Part 2 of 3:
[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Further responses inline:[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]
For reference, Dr. Stone advertises himself as an avian vet.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]
I don’t know what advertisement you are referring to, but listing the species one sees in one’s practice is not the same as advertising as an "avian vet"…… [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]
The impression from your business card is somewhat misleading. At the very top it lists the animals you treat, under which your name appears. Then below your name it says "Diplomate, American Board of Veterinary Practitioners" with no mention to which animal(s) this certification applies. Someone not familiar with how difficult it would be to acquire ABVP certification for each of the animal types you list on the card may get the impression that you hold this certification for each one of them. Not designating that your certifications are for canine and feline is the misleading part.[/FONT]
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an "avian vet" is someone who sees ONLY birds and is board certified as a poultry specialist or a pet bird specialist….[/FONT]
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Fair enough.[/FONT]
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by the way, ABVP certification is very hard to obtain….. I am proud to be one of 4 doctors in the whole state with that certification, of which only one of us is certified as an avian specialist, and she is no longer in private practice….. the result is there are NO board certified avian doctors in the state……[/FONT]
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Hmm, I thought there were two: ********* *** and ****** ***********. I knew that neither of them were currently in practice.[/FONT]
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The x-ray image was processed and viewed by Dr. Stone who told me that he could see the snap piece. I asked if it was still in Zaf's crop. Stone replied, "yes." I asked what our options were at this point. Stone said the object had to be removed. I asked about the procedure... Stone said he would anesthetize Zaf then flush out his crop. I was extremely hesitant to approve the anesthetization and I basically stood there awfulizing for several minutes. Stone then asserted that if the procedure were not done, Zaf would die. I asked Stone if he'd ever had birds fail to revive from anesthesia. He said, "of course I have... and not just birds... but all vets will tell you the same thing."[/FONT]
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not my exact words……[/FONT]
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I very clearly remember you telling me that if the procedure were not done, Zaf would die. That's the thing that stuck in my mind and ultimately convinced me to grant approval.[/FONT]
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but the jest of the message was that after 25 years of experience I have seen my share of animals die under anesthesia and any one who practices pet bird and small animal medicine for 25 years will confirm they have had similar experiences…..[/FONT]
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My recollection is that your statement was much shorter... closer to what I've indicated above. But I doubt it matters much because you're essentially saying the same thing here -- you've merely elaborated a bit more.[/FONT]
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I also assured you that I anesthetize birds, dogs and cats all the time and that I was competent it could be done as safely as possible, and the risk of not anesthetizing the bird to remove the metal foreign body was worse than he risk of anesthesia[/FONT]
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Correct, you indeed conveyed this to me... you said something to the effect that the risk would be similar to that posed when you spay or neuter cats and dogs.[/FONT]
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They secured a gas tube/mask to Zaf's face and he went under. The receptionist helped connect a heart monitor to him as well. Stone then proceeded to irrigate his crop while I sat on a chair watching the whole thing. The process seemed to last forever and all that came out were pieces of macadamia nuts. Twice during the procedure, Stone would remove Zaf from the operating table (disconnecting the anesthesia tube and monitor gear) to take more x-rays (the first with Zaf on his back -- like the original -- and the second with Zaf on his side). After the first subsequent x-ray was processed it was easy to see that the blip was in the exact same position as it was on the initial image. I asked Stone to confirm that the object was still in his crop... [/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]this[/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]time[/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif], though, Stone said "no, it's not in his crop."[/FONT]
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I said it wasn’t in the crop, not because of the position on the second x-ray, but because I didn’t see it in the crop when I looked thru the scope….. remember, we passed a scope in an attempt to retrieve the foreign body…. After the scoping, I said it may have gotten flushed into the proventriculus and that was the impetus for the second and third x-ray.[/FONT]
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The point is that the blip showed up in the exact same place on the first and second x-ray images, and you had stated to me that this [/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]place[/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif] WAS the crop. When the scope exam revealed nothing in the crop it should have been another strong signal for you to ask me whether Zaf were microchipped and then to scan to confirm the chip's existence. But instead you ordered another x-ray. Again, the most suitable thing to have done would have been to initially recognize that the blip on the first image looked very much like an implanted microchip. And I still don't see how the scoping result served as impetus for the "third" x-ray, since you'd just viewed the "second" x-ray in which the chip was in precisely the same position where it had appeared in the first x-ray... and, as I've mentioned, [/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]*[/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]that[/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]*[/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif] position is the place you'd termed "the crop" early on. I was under the impression that you ordered the third 90 degree x-ray to confirm or deny that the object was a microchip (as you should have been able to [/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]easily[/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif] do considerably earlier with a chip scanner and a simple question to me after viewing the first x-ray).[/FONT]

 

[plax]

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]My response to the vet, Part 3 of 3:
[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]The last thing that I want to convey here is that after the procedure and Stone's sudden realization that the blip might be a microchip, he had the nerve to admonish me. He stated that if I'd left them alone and not interrupted their initial effort to take x-rays, they would have taken images from both angles and consequently identified the blip as a microchip, thus ruling out the need for the crop irrigation procedure. To this statement of his, I ask the following: If, absent the cited interruption/interference from me, the 90 degree x-ray image would have truly been Dr. Stone's chosen course during the initial moments of examination, why did he not take a perpendicular x-ray image of Zaf earlier during the period of anesthesia rather than at the very end of the procedure as a last resort?[/FONT]
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Neither myself or my staff remember this question coming from you……[/FONT]
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That's because it did not come from me while I was at your facility. If you'll examine my above text a bit closer you should notice that the word "ask" is present-tense. This is not a typo... I meant it as a rhetorical question that would express my concern as to why you didn't order a perpendicular image sooner, which could have helped to prove whether or not the object was a snap piece or a microchip.[/FONT]
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but I will gladly answer it now….. the answer is because you were so nervous about the time spent under anesthesia that I took this short cut to get on with the treatment since I had convinced myself there was a metal foreign body in the crop.[/FONT]
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The question then becomes why did you "convince yourself" that there was a metal foreign body without first feeling compelled to determine if what looked to be a microchip was in fact a microchip? I remember telling you that I couldn't be certain Zaf had swallowed the snap part and that I hoped he actually had not.[/FONT]
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Moreover, one would think an experienced veterinarian who sees avian patients on a regular basis would be familiar with the pattern an Avid microchip presents on an x-ray image of a bird. At the very least a questionable blip approximately resembling a metallic grain of rice in the breast area of a bird should be enough to prompt a competent avian vet to ask the bird's owner if the bird has an implanted microchip, especially when the purpose for the visit is an emergency assessment of whether or not the bird has ingested a small potentially toxic metal object that may be in the same region.[/FONT]
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The crop, when full of food or fluid overlies the breast, so on the single ventrodorsal view one cannot distinguish where the "metallic grain for rice" is….. as I mentioned when viewing the x-ray, a snap chewed by a macaw and turned on edge would look cylindrical.[/FONT]
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Understood. But nonetheless, an implanted microchip looks like an illuminated grain of rice. And that's precisely what this blip looked like to me in the first image.[/FONT]
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Common sense dictates that this question should have been asked before any invasive exploratory procedure was done to my bird. For this failure, I blame Dr. Stone.[/FONT]
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Hindsight is always 20-20.[/FONT]
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One would think that you'd have fairly accurate [/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]foresight[/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif], assuming that you've x-rayed microchipped birds before. It's hard to imagine otherwise.[/FONT]
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Sadly, I'm left with the suspicion that Dr. Stone knew at the outset (meaning once he had viewed the first x-ray -- [/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]the[/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]attainment[/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]of[/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]which[/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]I[/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]had[/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]to[/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]facilitate[/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif] simply because they were unable to secure Zaf's position on the x-ray platform) that the blip was probably a microchip.[/FONT]
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This in nonsense!!!!![/FONT]
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Well, if the possibility [/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]didn't[/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif] occur to you from the size, shape, density, and location of the blip, then I have to say it's demonstrative of an ineptitude on your part -- and unfortunately one at Zaf's and my expense that certainly might have turned out far worse.[/FONT]
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Although I can't prove it, I really have the feeling that Dr. Stone wanted to perform the procedure so he could charge me accordingly.[/FONT]
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This is nonsense too![/FONT]
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If true you'd certainly never admit it.[/FONT]

 

[wenz2712]

OMG Tony, I am sitting here in sheer amazement after reading this!!

I am so sorry that both you and Zaf had such a horrible experience It must have been very stressful for both of you! Thank goodness he came through the ordeal, with no lasting damage.

I cannot believe that someone who claims to be an Avian Vet did not see that the blip was a microchip :11:

I know it was quite a few years ago now, but give Zaf a cuddle from myself and Codie

 

[plax]

OMG Tony, I am sitting here in sheer amazement after reading this!!

I am so sorry that both you and Zaf had such a horrible experience It must have been very stressful for both of you! Thank goodness he came through the ordeal, with no lasting damage.

I cannot believe that someone who claims to be an Avian Vet did not see that the blip was a microchip :11:

I know it was quite a few years ago now, but give Zaf a cuddle from myself and Codie

Will do, Wendy!

I admit that I'm very much to blame as well... I feel SO responsible . My huge blunder, of course, was not remembering something extremely important, something I well knew: that Zaf was in fact microchipped and that implanted microchips appear exactly as the blip appeared on the x-ray images. I was simply so stressed and worried about Zaf that at the time it never clicked in my mind for whatever reason. Because of my failure in this regard things might have turned out unimaginably tragic. I'm SO, SO VERY THANKFUL that Zaf came through it all okay!!!!!!!!! It was the worst day of my life on a number of levels .

In the end, though, the most important thing is that Zaf is currently happy, healthy, and here with me today

 

[wenz2712]

OMG Tony, I am sitting here in sheer amazement after reading this!!

I am so sorry that both you and Zaf had such a horrible experience It must have been very stressful for both of you! Thank goodness he came through the ordeal, with no lasting damage.

I cannot believe that someone who claims to be an Avian Vet did not see that the blip was a microchip :11:

I know it was quite a few years ago now, but give Zaf a cuddle from myself and Codie

Will do, Wendy!

I admit that I'm very much to blame as well... I feel SO responsible . My huge blunder, of course, was not remembering something extremely important, something I well knew: that Zaf was in fact microchipped and that implanted microchips appear exactly as the blip appeared on the x-ray images. I was simply so stressed and worried about Zaf that at the time it never clicked in my mind for whatever reason. Because of my failure in this regard things might have turned out unimaginably tragic. I'm SO, SO VERY THANKFUL that Zaf came through it all okay!!!!!!!!! It was the worst day of my life on a number of levels .

In the end, though, the most important thing is that Zaf is currently happy, healthy, and here with me today

Dont blame yourself Tony... It is very understandable that you were under extreme stress at the time and worried sick over Zaf

A qualified Avian Vet should have asked this question straight away!!

I am just happy for you that everything turned out ok and Zaf came through his traumatic ordeal with no ill effects

 

[noblemacaw]

I can only imagine the stress and guilt you felt during this horrible time. Do you now have a more established after hours vet for the parrots? That is one thing I hope to never have to establish again but even with having healthy birds you never know what will happen.

I am on my third Avian vet. My first was ended up relocating to another state and recommend me to who an very established Avian vet. She retired and I inherited who is now Valentino's vet. When I looked though my oldest parrot's vet records I saw that Dr. Blair was seeing him before Dr. Jenkins retired. I am constantly amazed of the lengths Dr. Blair will go to get the information needed and I liked that she interned and studied under Dr. Jenkins. When I rushed in Diego my Illiger's macaw because he had collapsed Dr. Blair used heroic measures to try to save him. When she was unable to save him and had to tell me he didn't make it I didn't take the news well at all and she held me for over half hour while I cried.

My clinic uses two after hour facilities and I am lucky one is real close to me (less than 5 min drive). The avian vet at this ER is the one that took care of Joaquin in December 2005 on his last day. I rushed him in at 8PM and she contacted my vet and they worked together with Joaquin. I also asked her to call me if Joaquin got worse and she did at 1:15AM. Because she kept her promise I was able to be with Joaquin when he died. I got to hold him and sing to him and be with him while he died. Joaquin didn't have to die alone and I am forever grateful for the gift if being able to be with him when he needed me the most.

I realized that all my Avian vets are women. There is a male Avian vet at the clinic I use and he did assist Dr. Blair during Diego's emergency. I officially met him during Valentino's well bird and yearly exam and found him to be very personable and knowledgeable. If Dr. Blair was not available I could be comfortable with Dr. Roeser. Valentino charmed everyone on his exam day and he did really well. I have a very good Avian vet and have established very good avian care after hours and I am very thankful for this.

Tony, you are amazing with your parrots and because they are so well taken care of I am sure other than normal vet care you don't spend much time having to use after hours Avian vet care. Not many people understand how much parrots enrich our lives but I know you are one of the rare people that understand the full scope of what it takes to live with such creatures.

 

[MonicaMc]

I'm so very sorry that you had to go through that with Zaff!

I do wonder though, how many avian vets actually X-Ray a microchipped bird? From all that I've read, heard and understood, is that as common as microchipping may be in dogs and cats, it's still a relatively new technology to be performed in birds. Since it's not a common occurrence, I can see how this particular vet wouldn't have thought about it being a microchip, especially with an owner who was afraid that their precious bird might have swallowed something that could lead to metal poisoning.

It's understandable that no one could have been thinking right during this entire ordeal. I think what matters most is that Zaf is fine!


I've had a budgie that had a crop flush, but he was never put under for it. I would imagine that it would be much more difficult to perform a crop flush on a hyacinth.

 

[plax]

Do you now have a more established after hours vet for the parrots?

Yes. My current vet's clinic is 7 or 8 minutes away and I have his home and cell numbers in my contact lists on all phones.

I'm so very sorry for each of your tremendous losses

Thanks for your kind words

 

[plax]

I do wonder though, how many avian vets actually X-Ray a microchipped bird? From all that I've read, heard and understood, is that as common as microchipping may be in dogs and cats, it's still a relatively new technology to be performed in birds. Since it's not a common occurrence, I can see how this particular vet wouldn't have thought about it being a microchip, especially with an owner who was afraid that their precious bird might have swallowed something that could lead to metal poisoning.

I disagree with you in this regard. The Avid chips all have a 'grain of rice' blip appearance on x-ray images when surrounded by soft tissue, irrespective of the type of animal within which they have been implanted. Moreover, in 2005 these devices had been utilized for exotic bird identification for nearly a decade. The bottom line is that Dr. Stone should have recognized the x-ray signature pattern of an Avid microchip regardless that it was embedded in the tissue of a parrot.

 

[MonicaMc]

Tony, I agree with you that the vet *should have* known, but again, I'm not going back on my thoughts that if this vet was not accustomed to seeing microchips in parrots, he probably wasn't thinking it *WAS* a microchip at first.

Even if microchipping parrots has been used for over a decade in parrots does not mean that they are frequently used in pet birds. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if you made a pole on several forums about whether or not our pet parrots are microchipped, and the majority of the owners came back saying that their birds are not microchipped. There are hundreds, if not thousands of birds lost every year, and many of these birds would *probably* find their way back home *IF* they were microchipped... but the majority of them aren't. I've even asked one person who works at a rescue(?) that often takes in found birds, and the person said that they scan every single found bird that comes in, but none of them had microchips.

 

[noblemacaw]

Thank you so much Tony. I always felt Mihijo, Joaquin and Diego should of outlived me. They died way too young. Some genetics came into play, my Eclectus had cancer and diet and lack of exercise also came into play. If I was not already in with Valentino I probably would of stopped having parrots. Each of their loss affected me so greatly. My three boys were suppose to outlive me and sometimes I do feel robbed of them because they died too young. To try to honor them I try to share the knowledge I have learned from them with others who want it and will never stop learning about parrot care and nutrition.

Right now Valentino is my only parrot and I am still grieving the loss of Mihijo my 17 year old Noble macaw. It seems at times talking about Joaquin my Eclectus, is better and I can handle his loss but Diego I still miss him so very much a nd it is still hard. I will say Valentino helps me with my grief. He can be a handful and requires a lot of care and training because he is a baby.

I hope someday to get one more parrot so I can make a flock. I think it will be healthier for Valentino to be able to see, hear and interact (even if it is cage side by side experience) with another parrot. I think in some ways I need to work up my confidence with keeping parrots healthy and happy before I take in another parrot. I will never say I regret Valentino and I have had people tell me "why did you get another parrot since you can't keep them alive?" but there are days I think about my boys and miss them so much it hurts.

Sometimes I will have nightmares of Valentino dying and am afraid to go downstairs to begin his day but once I hear that baby squeak he makes I sigh in relief and smile. Valentino has a strong genetic line of excellent health (grandfather died at 82 years old and grandmother still alive at 68 years) so I need to keep him healthy will good diet and exercise and happy with excellent mental health care.

I want to also thank you for uploading your parrot video's and posting your stories of your parrots. I really do enjoy them very much and watching and reading them really does make my day. To experience love and the bond from a parrot is like nothing else and I realize I do not think I could ever be without that special relationship in my life. There is nothing like being able to go to sleep at night and know "yes, I have met the challenge today to hold and keep the love and respect of my parrot."

 

[LoryLover]

Wow, sounds like an absolute living nightmare! I've had to have my chattering put under anesthesia in order to remove an egg - she was egg bound. This was to insure that the egg be removed whole, if it got broken inside her, it would have been horrible. But still, my husband and I were in the waiting area as nervous and worried as can be. She survived fine and 4 days later was attempting to lay another egg. Took her immediately to the vet and they were able to remove that egg without putting her under anesthesia. (She was 9 yrs old then and we'd always thought she was a male)

I might have missed it in your narrative, but what became of the snap piece? Was it determined that Zaf didn't ingest it after all?