New bird...Bites when removes from shoulder

[PineappleMom21502]

Hello,
I am a new conure mom to a 4mon old. Mango is very friendly. He comes out of the cage immediately. The problem that we have is he likes being on your shoulder but if you try to remove him he bites. We are looking for some suggestions or help so we can stop this before it becomes a serious problem down the road.

 

[Kiwibird]

You'll find this as a recurrent theme in the bird community: sitting on shoulders is a privilege NOT a right. If a bird can't be trusted up there to come down when asked, then they have no business being up there. It took me about 6-7 YEARS before I found my bird trustworthy enough to allow on my shoulder. Some birds can never be trusted and that's ok too. If you continue allowing him up there at this stage of his training/bonding with your family, sooner or later, he'll lace into someones face. Keep him off the shoulder for now is the first thing you need to do. If he climbs your arm, bend it at the elbow. It he can still get up there, acclimate him to having his toes gently held while on your hand so he can't go anywhere. You need to work with your bird, train him to be a good companion animal and he needs to learn the rules of your home. Remember: parrots, even hatched in captivity and hand raised, are NOT domesticated animals. They are only a few generations out of the wild, thus retain many wild traits/behaviors and require far more training to become companion animals than animals like dogs and cats that have been bred down for thousands of generations to have traits humans desire in a pet. Once a bird has been trained and adjusted to domestic life, they make wonderful pets. Just a little more effort required in the beginning than other animals

Also, keep the 4 year old away from him for now as he is still not well trained enough to tolerate the mistakes a small child may make with hands-on interaction. While a conure is too small to amputate a child's finger, they can still take out a good, painful chunk of flesh. I speak from experience- I was about 3 the first time I was bit by a parrot (a small cockatoo). I picked him up, without supervision and being a child I didn't do it right because he was soon hanging off my cheek as I ran screaming for my parents. They still have him too, 20 some odd years later and obviously I wasn't traumatized for life over birds, but many parents would freak out if their bird bit their kid, even if the kid was at fault. Best for the bird and kid to not let them interact if the bird can't be trusted or until the child is a little older as neither one can be blamed for not knowing better!

 

[PineappleMom21502]

Thank you. The breeder we got him from said that he likes shoulders so that's where to perch him. Apparently they had him out of the cage most of the time so he loves getting out but hates going back in. She said if he does it nippy or bites just put him back in cage for time out. I don't want to be bit every time I need him off our shoulders. When i researched I know this time out method works only if he's put away immediately but some times it takes a few minutes to get him off even with a perch stick. He just bites & moves around so he doesn't have to get down. I love having him out but some times I need him to go back in the cage or just off our shoulders. This morning I woke up late so I didn't get him out because I only had like 15min with him & I know it'll make him mad to go right back in the cage.

 

[bill_e]

So when we first got Nike the easiest way to get her off one's shoulder was to just sit on the couch and she would immediately go onto the chair back. From there she would step up on your finger and you could do what you wanted with her.

Now she mostly comes off on her own but still we sometimes have to revert to the couch. I just picked up a clicker and I'm going to start target training her as soon as life slows a little.

Birds are weird, Nike loves the top of your head the most but will readily step up to any hand when she's on a head...no idea why.

 

[Kiwibird]

He doesn't HAVE to be on your shoulder to be out. Have you considered a portable play stand you can bring from room to room instead? Near you, but not on you? While it is important to foster a good relationship with your parrot and if they like it, to pet them and interact, it is unwise to allow them to be on your physical person too much. Overbonding is a huge reason birds end up rehomed (they become possessive of one person and aggressive to everyone else), along with issues stemming from feeling abandonment when not on you. Along with learning basic things like stepping up reliably on command, recall training, potty training etc.. birds also need to be taught how to occupy themselves when no human is there to play with them or when you can't offer your 100% undivided attention. This is not natural to them, as they spend 24/7 with their flock, interacting and always together so it is a learned behavior for them to play happily alone. What have you done so far to encourage independent play/self-rewarding activities? Also, what and how have you been training your bird?

 

[GaleriaGila]

I'm glad you're reaching out early, to get on top of a problem before it gets big!

You're already getting good advice.
Hold in mind that keeping a bird socialized and under reasonable control is a process, and it's entirely likely that you'll never have a perfectly behaved angel. I have let my bird develop some bad habits because I'm retired now (I got him when I was in college) so I have time to indulge him.

May I add some thoughts about expectations? I hope I don't sound preach-y. I also want to make it clear that I completely support all the great advice on training!

My bird is "difficult", always has been... I truly believe it's just his ingrained personality.
Even after all these years, I sometimes find myself putting myself or my bird down... stuff like...
I SHOULDN'T HAVE TO PUT UP WITH THIS OR THAT.
WHY CAN'T HE BE SWEET AND NICE, LIKE THOSE OTHER BIRDS?
PEOPLE NEVER UNDERSTAND WHY I PUT UP WITH THIS.
But birds are, as already said, just weird. Not dogs or kitties... not even mammals.

Over the years, I have sometimes been very embarassed/downhearted/sad about having a pet that was so... out of my control. But it is my choice to indulge and adore him.

Do your best with training and managing... you'll get lots of great advice here! Then just make adjustments to whatever issues are remaining.
Examples...
I have reduced biting to almost zero over the decades... not because I've changed the bird, but I have changed me. And a lot of that has involved giving up on a lot of my desires/expectations. After years of battle, I "compromised". I don't do stuff that gets me bitten. I NEVER do stuff that makes him mad... I don't touch others when he's out; I rarely try to get him to step up onto my hand first. Hand-held perch first, then hand. In some ways, I swallow my disappointment at having such a little monster for a pet, but he is what he is. I ALWAYS wear my hair down when he's on my shoulder, so all he can bite is hair. Really, I don't involve hands much... he doesn't like them. He seems to think the real ME is my head, perched on a weird moveable tree with questionable appendages. Since he's fully flighted, the ONLY way I get him into the cage is to toss a chile pepper in and he flaps in after it. So food reward is a necessity for me. Time-out doesn't exist in the Rb's kingdom.

I treasure the idea that I have an amazing half-wild being who shares my life! It's magic enough for me!

Parrot-owners usually wind up determining their own personal comfort level with various behaviors, and it's okay to be okay with that.

Good luck, and good for you for caring so much!

 

[Sunnyclover]

Have you tried offering a treat when he is stepping off your shoulder onto your hand? Just hold treat by finger you want him to step onto and make sure he steps up and is away from your shoulder and then give treat and put him back into the cage kind of at the same time. That way birdie doesn't associate going back in cage or off shoulder as a bad thing but more of a "uggg okay at least I get a treat out of this" type of thing. Over time he will learn this behavior and you will not need to give a treat every time but every now and then to reinforce good behavior. As others have said, you do not have to have your bird on your shoulder to "have them out", you an put him on top of his cage (make sure you put toys and fun stuff up on top like a rope perch in a semi circle or if it's got food dished keep them filled with food and water) or buy a play stand and put toys on it and make it nice for birdie and not boring.

 

[noodles123]

I agree with what has been said so far. I second the notion of sitting on a couch or an unfamiliar backed surface-- this seems to work well as a last-resort. Also, mine sometimes steps back onto my wrist better than forward onto my fingers, so before getting frustrated, I attempt a few methods (if/when faced with resistance) in order to figure out whether it is my technique of my bird's obstinate that is causing the problem. The wrist stepping discovery has been huge for me, because for the longest time, what I thought was stubbornness was actually discomfort.

 

[PineappleMom21502]

Well Kiwibird we just got Mango on Sunday afternoon so it's been less than a week. I have a top stand on his cage but he doesn't seem to like it. I've tried to introduce it to him a few times but he's not interested. We are keeping the cage in our living room since that is where we spend most of our time & he does okay once he gets in the cage. I have gotten him a few toys & I have ordered more a few more for him. We talked about starting to train him but we decided to wait a little bit just so we can let him get more use to us & us to him.

 

[PineappleMom21502]

GaleriaGila I realize it's a learning process for both of us & we have to just respect him. This is why we wanted to wait a little bit for training. I want to give it some time to see his personality. In just the few days even though he bites a little I can tell he's also a sweetheart. He likes being petted & loves his head rubs. He already knows how to step up. He lets us reach into the cage to get him (when he's not already trying to climb the door when we open it lol). He's already going back into his cage easier than he did on day 1.

SunnyClover I have offered treats & he drops them once he realizes I want him to step up. He's smart lol. He won't step off our shoulders for anything just yet. He makes sure he stays far enough back from your hand so that if you move it towards him he'll nip it.

Right now once I get a perch stick he fights it for a min but he'll then step on. He will sometimes try to work his way back to my hand so I have a T perch coming so I can stop that as well.

 

[Sunnyclover]

Back up to a wall. He will have no choice but to step up on the perch or your finger but if he is biting...use perch.

 

[Tami2]

Hello & Welcome to the forum.

Congratulations on your new baby. I know how exciting it is to get your 1st parrot. It’s also very important to get things right from the start. You are getting very good information here and you will learn a great deal.

I have an African Grey, that I have a wonderful bond & relationship with. However, I doubt I’ll ever allow him on my shoulder. You never know what might spook them & you could get seriously injured. As Kiwibird has already stated.

Now that you’ve joined take full advantage of this amazing resource. Get familiar with the different Forums and read as much as you can. Starting w/ this wonderful thread. http://www.parrotforums.com/general-parrot-information/49144-tips-bonding-building-trust.html

I researched for years before getting Levi and yet, I’ve learned more here than anywhere else. So, do right by everyone and learn before making irreversible mistakes. B/c as you are experiencing already some are real tough to correct.

Best of luck to you all. Please post pictures. We love pictures. :heart:

 

[MonicaMc]

I know you said you wanted to wait to train him.... but...... and this is a BIG but...... you are already training him! Any interaction with him is a training session. This does not need to be physical interaction, it could even be ignoring him as you walk into a room. Any time you are around him and he knows you are there, it's a learning experience for him!

So you might as well just start figuring out what his favorite treats are now and teach him to do the behaviors you want him to do so it'll be easier to avoid the behaviors you don't want him to do.

The longer he's had time to practice undesired behaviors (i.e. biting while on the shoulder!!!!) the longer it may take to un-train that behavior!




So the questions become... what are his favorite treats? Millet? Sunflower seeds? Dried fruit? Healthy nuts? Or???? If he doesn't seem very food motivated, then look at his diet.... is he eating a seed based diet?!?!??! If the answer is yes, then get him off a seed diet! Get him onto a pelleted diet and seed rewards will become a higher value for him!

Next question... how do we get him off the shoulder without forcing him? Will he step up for a treat? Or will he step up onto his cage for a treat? Or perhaps, if you had your arm out level, maybe even bent in such a way that your hand was either in front of your face or in front of your other shoulder, would your bird "walk down" your arm for a reward?

Or maybe, if he loves having his head scritched, he'll move for head scritches??? I once accidentally taught my cockatiel to station on her cage door for scritches which worked out *GREAT* when I didn't have much time in the morning to interact with her, but I still needed to open the cage door to get the food and water out.

 

[Caitnah]

Your situation is exactly like mine. My Pineapple wants to be with me ALWAYS. He loves being on my shoulder and will move down my back when I try to get him off. He knows that when I am trying to remove him that it's time to go back into his cage...which he doesn't want to do.
He will nip at me and sometimes bite. He, also, wants nothing to do with his playground unless I am standing right there with him.

There was a YouTube video I saw which explained how to stop the biting. He explained about how to "grab" the bird in a safe manner.

It may seem unorthodox but it works. My GCC is only 7 months old and I have always been able to handle him while he lays on his back in my hand. Not sure you have been able to do this with your Conure yet since you have had him for a short time.
But the method requires that you grab him around the neck using only your thumb and forefinger. You don't pinch his neck but you form your hand like making the "ok" sign. Gently of course. This does NOT hurt the bird at all. Naturally he will begin to bite. But while holding him this way, you turn him over in his back and pinch his beak a little and say any words like "easy" or "be nice" or "no bite".
I did this with my guy and he turned to putty while in this position. I spoke softly to reassure him that he was in no danger. I then slowly walked and put my hand into his cage, turned my hand back over and placed him on his perch.

The hardest part is grabbing him since he will move down my back. I always try to get him to step up first but, if he won't, then I will pick him up.

Am afraid I don't have the link to the video but I saw it while researching on how to stop birds from biting since I am having that problem with my Grey. This man was having lots of problems with his Conure always biting him all the time. He clearly showed how to do this technique and seems to work very well.

 

[Skittys_Daddy]

Skittles doesn't like being "removed" from my shoulder. But we have an 'understanding'. If I want him off of my shoulder I will point to where I want him to go and 'snap' my fingers. I also sometimes put my finger out and say "step up" and he usually obliges, though sometimes he just flies off instead. He's actually very well when it comes to my shoulder. Sometimes he will get nippy but he usually will respond with direct voice commands. He knows what "NO BITING" and "STOP IT" mean.

But as others have said, its a privilege and not a right. You don't want them to feel dominant over you, cause if given the chance, they WILL take it.

Skittles is EXTREMELY obedient, but I cannot count how many times EVERY day he "tests" me and tries to 'overrule' me. It results in me needing to maintain constant boundaries.

Sometimes I talk back to him in a birdy voice and say "you're a little stinker! yeah, you a brat, no, you a brat" and he'll follow up with his manipulative "kissy noises", the little stinker!

 

[Sunnyclover]

I'm lucky...Ollie will step up off my shoulder, go into his cage when put there, generally be the angel he is. I swear if I asked him to step up into a firey volcano...he would.

 

[wrench13]

Chair back or couch back or even wall. THat game of keep away needs to end asap. When you request him tostep up he needs to do so with no issues. If he bites its really imperative that you place him on a chair back and shun him for a few minutes. No eye contact no sneaking a look.

 

[Skittys_Daddy]

I'm lucky...Ollie will step up off my shoulder, go into his cage when put there, generally be the angel he is. I swear if I asked him to step up into a firey volcano...he would.

That's weird. I thought Ollie was a sun conure???

 

[LordTriggs]

not sure if it's been suggested, but hold the absolute top must-have treat for your little guy just out of reach so he has to step up to get at it!

Instead of pushing him to the point he has to do something, make him WANT to do it and if he knows that a tasty morsel is awaiting him for doing a little step then heck yeah!

 

[Joon]

A couple of my birds are lured off with a treat when they won't step up readily. I either put my shoulder to the cage (the cage is near my shoulder height so it's perfect for this) and place a treat on the cage top out of reach so she is forced to step off to reach it. Or when I put up the hand I want them to step up on I have a treat in the other to lure them on.

You might also want to do this in front of a mirror, or film it, to see if there isn't something you're inadvertently doing that is startling the bird and causing it to bite.