New Buggie has a weird beak

[bmx]

Where can I find a local breeder. My kid called two breeders and they are all closed due to the d*** virus.

 

[noodles123]

I would wait until you know what is going on before you start looking. I am not trying to be a killjoy, but some things can linger in carpet, AC units, cages etc, which is why it is so important that you know the cause of death.

A budgie CAN be okay alone if you build trust very slowly and provide sufficient interaction etc.

 

[bmx]

I would wait until you know what is going on before you start looking. I am not trying to be a killjoy, but some things can linger in carpet, AC units, cages etc, which is why it is so important that you know the cause of death.

A budgie CAN be okay alone if you build trust very slowly and provide sufficient interaction etc.

I will wait for the results first. We do not have carpet in the house and cleaned all ducts every year since my wife is easy to get an allergy to dust and even dog sometimes.

 

[noodles123]

I am so sorry, again. I hate to be so technical when you are going through this...
The issue is, your current bird could be a carrier or infected (slow incubation of up to 10 years, if ever), and in that case, you cannot get another bird without risking their life. That is why you have to know about PBFD and PDD. other diseases etc (but mainly, the major undetected viruses they can carry) before adopting---especially because PBFD is extremely resistant to mainstream disinfectants and because you can't safely use most disinfectants around birds.

I am not saying your bird has that, but a beak abnormality is a sign that is sometimes associated with both-- especially PBFD.
Liver disease (non contagious) is another possibility.

If you do get another bird, after ruling out disease, for your current bird's sake (and also for the new bird), you still must quarantine for 45 days in a separate air-space and get a full vet check-up in the meantime--that applies to everyone. Bird's are most likely to shed and contract illness during times of extreme stress (such as, moving to a new home). That is not to say that quarantine is fool-proof, but it can really help (especially when you have a good avian vet to check out your new bird..and old...for that matter).

 

[Scott]

What a tragic outcome, my deepest condolences to you and your daughter.

Hard to know whether the deformed beak was responsible, possibly not. Only a skilled avian vet can hope to determine the cause. As "noodles" posted, all sorts of issues may be responsible including contagion.

 

[LaManuka]

I'm so sorry for your loss. No matter how much time they are with us, it's never enough. Your daughter must be heartbroken, please pass on my deepest sympathies to her. Hopefully the necropsy will provide some closure for you. Fly free little one.

 

[bmx]

I am so sorry, again. I hate to be so technical when you are going through this...
The issue is, your current bird could be a carrier or infected (slow incubation of up to 10 years, if ever), and in that case, you cannot get another bird without risking their life. That is why you have to know about PBFD and PDD. other diseases etc (but mainly, the major undetected viruses they can carry) before adopting---especially because PBFD is extremely resistant to mainstream disinfectants and because you can't safely use most disinfectants around birds.

I am not saying your bird has that, but a beak abnormality is a sign that is sometimes associated with both-- especially PBFD.
Liver disease (non contagious) is another possibility.

If you do get another bird, after ruling out disease, for your current bird's sake (and also for the new bird), you still must quarantine for 45 days in a separate air-space and get a full vet check-up in the meantime--that applies to everyone. Bird's are most likely to shed and contract illness during times of extreme stress (such as, moving to a new home). That is not to say that quarantine is fool-proof, but it can really help (especially when you have a good avian vet to check out your new bird..and old...for that matter).

That explained everything. I will check with vet tomorrow. Thanks.

 

[bmx]

The white buggie is not feeling good this morning. Same symptom, not moving actively like yesterday. I am trying to feeding her water with dropper. She is not drinking. I also called several vet and all are closed. Anything I can do please? I put her into a new travel cage in another room. Hopefully she will recover.

 

[bmx]

I feel her temparture and it is not as warm as yesterday. I am trying to put her in a towel. Any other way?

 

[noodles123]

to get her to the vet? You can try to lure her with a treat...or move her cage depending on the size...

 

[bmx]

to get her to the vet? You can try to lure her with a treat...or move her cage depending on the size...

I called all avian vet 100 miles radius and nobody is calling back yet.

 

[bmx]

to get her to the vet? You can try to lure her with a treat...or move her cage depending on the size...

If sth happens to my white parakeet, can I still do a test with the vet? Should I buy new set of cages and food? You mentioned the virus is very hard to clean. Also, the PBFD and PDD is not contagious to kids, right?

 

[noodles123]

You need to find out what happened so that you know how to clean. Neither of those diseases is contagious to people, but PBFD can last a long time in a home.
PDD on the other hand, tends not to last more than 6 months to a year on surfaces (you still would need to clean etc).

Cloth can hold feather dust and that can transmit both. Again, if it was liver disease or something else, that is different, but you have to know before moving on (given their ability to harbor illness and given the illnesses ability to hang out in a house).

Did you notice any chunks in your bird's droppings before?

You can still do a necroscopy as long as your vet is willing and as long as you don't wait too long.

What you do with the cage will depend on what was wrong-- you would want to thoroughly clean it either way (if getting a new bird) but if they had PDD or PBFD, I wouldn't reuse it. When cleaning, remember that the fumes from standard household cleaners (even if they smell nice to us) are very harmful to birds. They also leave a harmful residue- so how you clean will depend on the situation...certain things (like bleach) can't be used indoors w/ a parrot, but can be used outside at proper dilutions, as long as you rinse things and let them to sit in the sun for a few days after *that is key, as it breaks down some of the chemical left-overs* ....I guess the issue is, that in sitting out, you could also expose the clean cage to poop from wild birds etc. Again though, I wouldn't re-use if your bird had a virus.

 

[bmx]

You need to find out what happened so that you know how to clean. Neither of those diseases is contagious to people, but PBFD can last a long time in a home.
PDD on the other hand, tends not to last more than 6 months to a year on surfaces (you still would need to clean etc).

Cloth can hold feather dust and that can transmit both. Again, if it was liver disease or something else, that is different, but you have to know before moving on (given their ability to harbor illness and given the illnesses ability to hang out in a house).

Did you notice any chunks in your bird's droppings before?

You can still do a necroscopy as long as your vet is willing and as long as you don't wait too long.

What you do with the cage will depend on what was wrong-- you would want to thoroughly clean it either way (if getting a new bird) but if they had PDD or PBFD, I wouldn't reuse it. When cleaning, remember that the fumes from standard household cleaners (even if they smell nice to us) are very harmful to birds. They also leave a harmful residue- so how you clean will depend on the situation...certain things (like bleach) can't be used indoors w/ a parrot, but can be used outside at proper dilutions, as long as you rinse things and let them to sit in the sun for a few days after *that is key, as it breaks down some of the chemical left-overs* ....I guess the issue is, that in sitting out, you could also expose the clean cage to poop from wild birds etc. Again though, I wouldn't re-use if your bird had a virus.

Thanks for your clarification again. Hope this bluebird will survive. BTW, How long is the incubation period of the PDD and PBFD? I got the bird for only four days.

 

[noodles123]

PDD and PBFD incubation periods can be as little as one week, and as long as a lifetime (depending on the bird). You can have a chronic carrier with no symptoms who lives 60 years...you can have a bird exposed to that carrier who gets sick 10 years later, or 5 days later...or never. It just depends...
The issue is, a seemingly healthy bird can spread it to others whose reactions are totally different.
Both can spread mother to egg, mother to chick or bird to bird.

Again, I am not saying that is definitely what your bird had, because many things can cause beak issues, but it is concerning either way.

FYI-- ABV is generally known as the precursor to PDD (although the semantics are still out on that, as it is a relatively recent disease discovery).


Here is some stuff on PBFD
https://vcahospitals.com/know-your-pet/psittacine-beak-and-feather-disease-in-pet-birds

https://www.beautyofbirds.com/PBFD.html

see above

 

[bmx]

The white bird just passed away. I will keep the body and check with the vet tomorrow. I assume they will do the exam even they passed away.
One more question I forget to ask. I bought a flight cage (https://amzn.to/2WAs1Ct) It is 31-Inch long, 20-1/2-inch wide, 53-inch high with 1/2-inch wire spacing. Those two little parakeets love to climb and they do fell when they try to to fly (Petco trim their wings since they want to keep them in a crowded area). Will that be the cause of the sudden death? also, my room temperature is 72F-74F and I put a curtain on the cage to protect them from the light at night. Will that do any harm to the birds? I am sorry to lose these two little creatures so quickly and want to make sure we are not making any mistakes next time.

 

[noodles123]

I am so sorry. What a nightmare...

The temperature in your home seems fine. You do not want air blowing directly on birds, but I doubt that was the case. As a rule of thumb, drafts and drastic temperature changes are not good.

If the cover was breathable, that should do no harm. Some birds can have night-frights (in which they attempt to fly when startled at night and slam into things) but I highly doubt that is the case here, as one had a strange beak, and it appears that disease of some sort was the cause (or an environmental toxin), and not injury (you likely would have seen other signs and the absence of any symptoms prior). If you are worried about night frights, you can use blackout curtains in a bird room with a night light instead of a cover. Again I would bet money this was a disease or possibly a household toxin, given the staggered but abrupt passing and the symptoms described.

You are not using any non-stick/Teflon/ptfe/pfoa products in the house, right? These often include certain pans/pots/cookie sheets/griddles/George Foreman grills/irons/popcorn poppers/air fryers/some toaster ovens and toasters etc in the house, right? They can also be in space heaters, hair dryers, curling irons, straighteners, heating pads, etc etc. These things off-gas an odorless chemical that can kill birds in minutes, even if they are not in the same room with it.

No candles or scented products either, correct..no scented oils, no air fresheners, no wax burners, no incense, no plug-ins, no vaping, no smoking, no burned food?

You didn't use the self-cleaning oven function...?

That cage looks fine to me...If they were falling hard, it could injure them, but I do not think that was the issue here..I think it would have been more obvious if injury were the issue, and I doubt it would have impacted them both in the fashion that it did. I also looked at the reviews, and it seems that many people use that cage for budgies, and while there one complaint about jagged edges, you would have seen blood, and you did not..the majority of the reviews were very positive for small parrots.

If it is a certified avian vet, yes, they will do the exam. It is like an autopsy, called a necroscopy.

Again, so sorry

and yes-- I would not re-use the food, and I would not get a new bird until you know what happened, because you may need to do some very very serious deep cleaning. If it was PBFD, I would clean like crazy and wait a chunk of time...If it was PDD, I would do the same, but I would be slightly less concerned because PBFD is much harder to "kill" and lasts for a really really long time in a home. Again, PDD is like half a year to one year on surfaces that are not cleaned, but it is easily cleaned with a solid disinfectant. PBFD, even when cleaned, can be much harder to eliminate and it lasts longer on surfaces.

When you get the results, IF it is a disease, I would contact PetCo and I would document the conversation as well (perhaps one verbal and one written). If it is a disease, they cannot keep selling those birds...with or without symptoms.

At this point, it is hard to know if it was a disease, but that is why a solid avian vet will be so important in this situation.

 

[bmx]

I am so sorry. What a nightmare...

The temperature in your home seems fine. You do not want air blowing directly on birds, but I doubt that was the case. As a rule of thumb, drafts and drastic temperature changes are not good.

If the cover was breathable, that should do no harm. Some birds can have night-frights (in which they attempt to fly when startled at night and slam into things) but I highly doubt that is the case here, as one had a strange beak, and it appears that disease of some sort was the cause (or an environmental toxin), and not injury (you likely would have seen other signs and the absence of any symptoms prior). If you are worried about night frights, you can use blackout curtains in a bird room with a night light instead of a cover. Again I would bet money this was a disease or possibly a household toxin, given the staggered but abrupt passing and the symptoms described.

You are not using any non-stick/Teflon/ptfe/pfoa products in the house, right? These often include certain pans/pots/cookie sheets/griddles/George Foreman grills/irons/popcorn poppers/air fryers/some toaster ovens and toasters etc in the house, right? They can also be in space heaters, hair dryers, curling irons, straighteners, heating pads, etc etc. These things off-gas an odorless chemical that can kill birds in minutes, even if they are not in the same room with it.

No candles or scented products either, correct..no scented oils, no air fresheners, no wax burners, no incense, no plug-ins, no vaping, no smoking, no burned food?

You didn't use the self-cleaning oven function...?

That cage looks fine to me...If they were falling hard, it could injure them, but I do not think that was the issue here..I think it would have been more obvious if injury were the issue, and I doubt it would have impacted them both in the fashion that it did. I also looked at the reviews, and it seems that many people use that cage for budgies, and while there one complaint about jagged edges, you would have seen blood, and you did not..the majority of the reviews were very positive for small parrots.

If it is a certified avian vet, yes, they will do the exam. It is like an autopsy, called a necroscopy.

Again, so sorry

and yes-- I would not re-use the food, and I would not get a new bird until you know what happened, because you may need to do some very very serious deep cleaning. If it was PBFD, I would clean like crazy and wait a chunk of time...If it was PDD, I would do the same, but I would be slightly less concerned because PBFD is much harder to "kill" and lasts for a really really long time in a home. Again, PDD is like half a year to one year on surfaces that are not cleaned, but it is easily cleaned with a solid disinfectant. PBFD, even when cleaned, can be much harder to eliminate and it lasts longer on surfaces.

When you get the results, IF it is a disease, I would contact PetCo and I would document the conversation as well (perhaps one verbal and one written). If it is a disease, they cannot keep selling those birds...with or without symptoms.

At this point, it is hard to know if it was a disease, but that is why a solid avian vet will be so important in this situation.

Thanks a lot for the advice. I already told petco and they told me all the other birds are fine right now. No feedback from other customers. We have an air fryer, a kitchenaid one. I will check if they have Teflon/ptfe/pfoa. But I think these are banned a while back. Also the room is far away from the kitchen. One more thing, I use 70% alcohol to sanitize the plastic bag for the bird food. But I leave in the patio for a day and put those food in a plastic container.(not sure if this is BPA free or not).

 

[noodles123]

I am so sorry. What a nightmare...

The temperature in your home seems fine. You do not want air blowing directly on birds, but I doubt that was the case. As a rule of thumb, drafts and drastic temperature changes are not good.

If the cover was breathable, that should do no harm. Some birds can have night-frights (in which they attempt to fly when startled at night and slam into things) but I highly doubt that is the case here, as one had a strange beak, and it appears that disease of some sort was the cause (or an environmental toxin), and not injury (you likely would have seen other signs and the absence of any symptoms prior). If you are worried about night frights, you can use blackout curtains in a bird room with a night light instead of a cover. Again I would bet money this was a disease or possibly a household toxin, given the staggered but abrupt passing and the symptoms described.

You are not using any non-stick/Teflon/ptfe/pfoa products in the house, right? These often include certain pans/pots/cookie sheets/griddles/George Foreman grills/irons/popcorn poppers/air fryers/some toaster ovens and toasters etc in the house, right? They can also be in space heaters, hair dryers, curling irons, straighteners, heating pads, etc etc. These things off-gas an odorless chemical that can kill birds in minutes, even if they are not in the same room with it. They are very very common chemicals and then can be mixed into metals during the molding process, applies as a powder, applied as a top-coat etc. Visual identification is next to impossible for many, although certain non-stick pans are often obvious. Drip trays are another common source.

No candles or scented products either, correct..no scented oils, no air fresheners, no wax burners, no incense, no plug-ins, no vaping, no smoking, no burned food?

You didn't use the self-cleaning oven function...?

That cage looks fine to me...If they were falling hard, it could injure them, but I do not think that was the issue here..I think it would have been more obvious if injury were the issue, and I doubt it would have impacted them both in the fashion that it did. I also looked at the reviews, and it seems that many people use that cage for budgies, and while there one complaint about jagged edges, you would have seen blood, and you did not..the majority of the reviews were very positive for small parrots.

If it is a certified avian vet, yes, they will do the exam. It is like an autopsy, called a necroscopy.

Again, so sorry

and yes-- I would not re-use the food, and I would not get a new bird until you know what happened, because you may need to do some very very serious deep cleaning. If it was PBFD, I would clean like crazy and wait a chunk of time...If it was PDD, I would do the same, but I would be slightly less concerned because PBFD is much harder to "kill" and lasts for a really really long time in a home. Again, PDD is like half a year to one year on surfaces that are not cleaned, but it is easily cleaned with a solid disinfectant. PBFD, even when cleaned, can be much harder to eliminate and it lasts longer on surfaces.

When you get the results, IF it is a disease, I would contact PetCo and I would document the conversation as well (perhaps one verbal and one written). If it is a disease, they cannot keep selling those birds...with or without symptoms.

At this point, it is hard to know if it was a disease, but that is why a solid avian vet will be so important in this situation.

Thanks a lot for the advice. I already told petco and they told me all the other birds are fine right now. No feedback from other customers. We have an air fryer, a kitchenaid one. I will check if they have Teflon/ptfe/pfoa. But I think these are banned a while back. Also the room is far away from the kitchen. One more thing, I use 70% alcohol to sanitize the plastic bag for the bird food. But I leave in the patio for a day and put those food in a plastic container.(not sure if this is BPA free or not).

You mean banned from your home, or banned from products? I can say with absolute certainly that they are still actively manufactured and included within a huge variety of household cooking products, among others. Again, room proximity is irrelevant in many cases of PTFE toxicity--- it can kill through closed doors and on different floors when heated. If you didn't use these items, then they pose no risk. The risk is when they are heated up.

I am not sure about the residue from the alcohol-- I would not do that in the future but I doubt the alcohol caused this.

I am still inclined to say that this may have been disease (due to the beak) but again, I am not sure and the only person who will be able to tell you is the vet. The Teflon/PFC/PTFE/PFOA thing is huge though, and it is a major problem for pet bird owners that is sometimes overlooked.

If you follow this link and look at the 4th reply (posted 7-17 at 10:20 AM), you will see a lot more details on this, including full chemical names etc (should you decide to call manufacturers). You must list full chemical names, abbreviations etc (Teflon is just a brand)

http://www.parrotforums.com/conures/86563-aggressive-gcc-not-eating-fresh-foods.html

see above

 

[bmx]

I am so sorry. What a nightmare...

The temperature in your home seems fine. You do not want air blowing directly on birds, but I doubt that was the case. As a rule of thumb, drafts and drastic temperature changes are not good.

If the cover was breathable, that should do no harm. Some birds can have night-frights (in which they attempt to fly when startled at night and slam into things) but I highly doubt that is the case here, as one had a strange beak, and it appears that disease of some sort was the cause (or an environmental toxin), and not injury (you likely would have seen other signs and the absence of any symptoms prior). If you are worried about night frights, you can use blackout curtains in a bird room with a night light instead of a cover. Again I would bet money this was a disease or possibly a household toxin, given the staggered but abrupt passing and the symptoms described.

You are not using any non-stick/Teflon/ptfe/pfoa products in the house, right? These often include certain pans/pots/cookie sheets/griddles/George Foreman grills/irons/popcorn poppers/air fryers/some toaster ovens and toasters etc in the house, right? They can also be in space heaters, hair dryers, curling irons, straighteners, heating pads, etc etc. These things off-gas an odorless chemical that can kill birds in minutes, even if they are not in the same room with it. They are very very common chemicals and then can be mixed into metals during the molding process, applies as a powder, applied as a top-coat etc. Visual identification is next to impossible for many, although certain non-stick pans are often obvious. Drip trays are another common source.

No candles or scented products either, correct..no scented oils, no air fresheners, no wax burners, no incense, no plug-ins, no vaping, no smoking, no burned food?

You didn't use the self-cleaning oven function...?

That cage looks fine to me...If they were falling hard, it could injure them, but I do not think that was the issue here..I think it would have been more obvious if injury were the issue, and I doubt it would have impacted them both in the fashion that it did. I also looked at the reviews, and it seems that many people use that cage for budgies, and while there one complaint about jagged edges, you would have seen blood, and you did not..the majority of the reviews were very positive for small parrots.

If it is a certified avian vet, yes, they will do the exam. It is like an autopsy, called a necroscopy.

Again, so sorry

and yes-- I would not re-use the food, and I would not get a new bird until you know what happened, because you may need to do some very very serious deep cleaning. If it was PBFD, I would clean like crazy and wait a chunk of time...If it was PDD, I would do the same, but I would be slightly less concerned because PBFD is much harder to "kill" and lasts for a really really long time in a home. Again, PDD is like half a year to one year on surfaces that are not cleaned, but it is easily cleaned with a solid disinfectant. PBFD, even when cleaned, can be much harder to eliminate and it lasts longer on surfaces.

When you get the results, IF it is a disease, I would contact PetCo and I would document the conversation as well (perhaps one verbal and one written). If it is a disease, they cannot keep selling those birds...with or without symptoms.

At this point, it is hard to know if it was a disease, but that is why a solid avian vet will be so important in this situation.

Thanks a lot for the advice. I already told petco and they told me all the other birds are fine right now. No feedback from other customers. We have an air fryer, a kitchenaid one. I will check if they have Teflon/ptfe/pfoa. But I think these are banned a while back. Also the room is far away from the kitchen. One more thing, I use 70% alcohol to sanitize the plastic bag for the bird food. But I leave in the patio for a day and put those food in a plastic container.(not sure if this is BPA free or not).

You mean banned from your home, or banned from products? I can say with absolute certainly that they are still actively manufactured and included within a huge variety of household cooking products, among others. Again, room proximity is irrelevant in many cases of PTFE toxicity--- it can kill through closed doors and on different floors when heated. If you didn't use these items, then they pose no risk. The risk is when they are heated up.

I am not sure about the residue from the alcohol-- I would not do that in the future but I doubt the alcohol caused this.

I am still inclined to say that this may have been disease (due to the beak) but again, I am not sure and the only person who will be able to tell you is the vet. The Teflon/PFC/PTFE/PFOA thing is huge though, and it is a major problem for pet bird owners that is sometimes overlooked.

If you follow this link and look at the 4th reply (posted 7-17 at 10:20 AM), you will see a lot more details on this, including full chemical names etc (should you decide to call manufacturers). You must list full chemical names, abbreviations etc (Teflon is just a brand)

http://www.parrotforums.com/conures/86563-aggressive-gcc-not-eating-fresh-foods.html

see above

We only use stainless, cast iron or ceramic cookware. All drinkware is ceramic, stainless steel or BPA free. But I suspect the drip pan of the air fryer is coated. I will contact kitchenaid tomorrow. if so, I am going to throw away the air fries. How long will it take to get all the residue of PTFE out?