New Buggie has a weird beak

[noodles123]

Thanks a lot for the advice. I already told petco and they told me all the other birds are fine right now. No feedback from other customers. We have an air fryer, a kitchenaid one. I will check if they have Teflon/ptfe/pfoa. But I think these are banned a while back. Also the room is far away from the kitchen. One more thing, I use 70% alcohol to sanitize the plastic bag for the bird food. But I leave in the patio for a day and put those food in a plastic container.(not sure if this is BPA free or not).

You mean banned from your home, or banned from products? I can say with absolute certainly that they are still actively manufactured and included within a huge variety of household cooking products, among others. Again, room proximity is irrelevant in many cases of PTFE toxicity--- it can kill through closed doors and on different floors when heated. If you didn't use these items, then they pose no risk. The risk is when they are heated up.

I am not sure about the residue from the alcohol-- I would not do that in the future but I doubt the alcohol caused this.

I am still inclined to say that this may have been disease (due to the beak) but again, I am not sure and the only person who will be able to tell you is the vet. The Teflon/PFC/PTFE/PFOA thing is huge though, and it is a major problem for pet bird owners that is sometimes overlooked.

If you follow this link and look at the 4th reply (posted 7-17 at 10:20 AM), you will see a lot more details on this, including full chemical names etc (should you decide to call manufacturers). You must list full chemical names, abbreviations etc (Teflon is just a brand)

http://www.parrotforums.com/conures/86563-aggressive-gcc-not-eating-fresh-foods.html

see above

We only use stainless, cast iron or ceramic cookware. All drinkware is ceramic, stainless steel or BPA free. But I suspect the drip pan of the air fryer is coated. I will contact kitchenaid tomorrow. if so, I am going to throw away the air fries. How long will it take to get all the residue of PTFE out?

Within 24 hours you should be fine...honestly, probably less. It is something that happens in the moment and then sticks around for a few hours after (I wouldn't trust less than 10). MOST air fryers do contain it. You have to be very specific when you ask and they will often say stuff like, "oh yes, yes our products are safe for pets and your family" so you have to ask about the actual chemicals (and spell the full names, as well as providing the abbreviations). You have to be kind of pushy, in a nice way...because 99.9% of the time, no one you speak to will have any idea and they will try not to create an inquiry if they can avoid it...even then, sometimes they will tell you that the exact contents are a "proprietary secret"

A necroscopy can 100% tell you if it was respiratory distress.

 

[fiddlejen]

Did you actually USE the air fryer during the time the budgies were in your home? (IF that is the only source of Teflon-fumes.)

IF Not, and especially if the necroscopy does Not show an environmental cause, then I'd say your Petco owes you a refund. !!

 

[bmx]

Did you actually USE the air fryer during the time the budgies were in your home? (IF that is the only source of Teflon-fumes.)

IF Not, and especially if the necroscopy does Not show an environmental cause, then I'd say your Petco owes you a refund. !!

We did not use the air fryer for a week. I am more worried about viruses or toxins in my house that will kill the next bird. I will ask for refund and find a local breeder for sure.

 

[bmx]

You mean banned from your home, or banned from products? I can say with absolute certainly that they are still actively manufactured and included within a huge variety of household cooking products, among others. Again, room proximity is irrelevant in many cases of PTFE toxicity--- it can kill through closed doors and on different floors when heated. If you didn't use these items, then they pose no risk. The risk is when they are heated up.

I am not sure about the residue from the alcohol-- I would not do that in the future but I doubt the alcohol caused this.

I am still inclined to say that this may have been disease (due to the beak) but again, I am not sure and the only person who will be able to tell you is the vet. The Teflon/PFC/PTFE/PFOA thing is huge though, and it is a major problem for pet bird owners that is sometimes overlooked.

If you follow this link and look at the 4th reply (posted 7-17 at 10:20 AM), you will see a lot more details on this, including full chemical names etc (should you decide to call manufacturers). You must list full chemical names, abbreviations etc (Teflon is just a brand)

http://www.parrotforums.com/conures/86563-aggressive-gcc-not-eating-fresh-foods.html

see above

We only use stainless, cast iron or ceramic cookware. All drinkware is ceramic, stainless steel or BPA free. But I suspect the drip pan of the air fryer is coated. I will contact kitchenaid tomorrow. if so, I am going to throw away the air fries. How long will it take to get all the residue of PTFE out?

Within 24 hours you should be fine...honestly, probably less. It is something that happens in the moment and then sticks around for a few hours after (I wouldn't trust less than 10). MOST air fryers do contain it. You have to be very specific when you ask and they will often say stuff like, "oh yes, yes our products are safe for pets and your family" so you have to ask about the actual chemicals (and spell the full names, as well as providing the abbreviations). You have to be kind of pushy, in a nice way...because 99.9% of the time, no one you speak to will have any idea and they will try not to create an inquiry if they can avoid it...even then, sometimes they will tell you that the exact contents are a "proprietary secret"

A necroscopy can 100% tell you if it was respiratory distress.

https://www.amazon.com/ask/questions/Tx3V6MZMNST6KQE/
I find a conflicting answer here. It is not the right model for mine. Not sure. I am researching and call tomorrow. BTW, if parakeet inhale PTFE, they will die immediately or it is a chronicle issue?

 

[noodles123]

It is very very very complicated and it depends on the age of the pan, the acidity of the food, the temperature of the food, the amount cooking at the time, the bird itself, the water content etc. There have been multiple birds killed when a few survived. There have been instances of pans that never were overheated and killed birds. There have been instances of people using a pan repeatedly and one day finding all of their birds dead as a result. That is why you should not use it--- it is not predictable and it is very dangerous.

There were also hundreds killed in the 300 F range (which is lower than most cooking) at MU, when the heat lamps turned out to contain a PTFE coating...So the temperatures that are cited by the manufactures, should not be trusted (as the MU incident was not the first in which birds died within much lower temperature thresholds than those indicated as toxic).

They don't always die at the same rate, even if they are the same species...It's very very tricky. Again, get them to the vet for testing due to the potential for disease, but I am glad you are taking the chemical off-gassing seriously.

Call yourself and reference those Amazon statements--- none vs "light" is a huge difference.

 

[bmx]

It is very very very complicated and it depends on the age of the pan, the acidity of the food, the temperature of the food, the amount cooking at the time, the bird itself, the water content etc. There have been multiple birds killed when a few survived. There have been instances of pans that never were overheated and killed birds. There have been instances of people using a pan repeatedly and one day finding all of their birds dead as a result. That is why you should not use it--- it is not predictable and it is very dangerous.

There were also hundreds killed in the 300 F range (which is lower than most cooking) at MU, when the heat lamps turned out to contain a PTFE coating...So the temperatures that are cited by the manufactures, should not be trusted (as the MU incident was not the first in which birds died within much lower temperature thresholds than those indicated as toxic).

They don't always die at the same rate, even if they are the same species...It's very very tricky. Again, get them to the vet for testing due to the potential for disease, but I am glad you are taking the chemical off-gassing seriously.

Call yourself and reference those Amazon statements--- none vs "light" is a huge difference.

Thanks for your generous help in explaining these to me. I want to make sure I am prepared for the next birds. Any toxin or virus will be a devastating event for a tiny creature. Also, the toxin or virus will harm ourselves as well. I am still shocked at all these are still hidden in descriptions of these so-called environmentally friendly products. My kid is: asleep in tears now. I just keep the tail feather since my kid insists that she does not want to lose the short memory for her loverly birds.

 

[noodles123]

You can tell her that her birds knew a good home-- better then PetCo. It may not help, but I imagine that she has seen Annie and understands that whole mindset---Not undermining children without homes, but trying to see if maybe that might help her feel better about it..CHEESY as that comparison may be...it's a kid friendly one!

I am so glad you guys are all in on this, and I am so sorry, again.

I have a strong feeling this was disease an not you...but it is so important to double check appliances etc (as you are doing)

It is good she wants to keep their memory...terrible as it is.

 

[LaManuka]

I am inclined to agree that these two birdies came to you already compromised. Budgies are usually quite hardy little birds, another reason why they are so popular, so hopefully your next experience will be a happier one. Again, my deepest condolences to you and your daughter at this difficult time.

Fly free on bright wings, tiny angels!

 

[Scott]

Just catching up, very sorry to hear the white budgie passed away. Definitely a mystery, hope an avian vet can determine cause and allow you to provide a safe environment.

 

[bmx]

Just send the white bird to a avian doctor for diagnosis. Hopefully we will get an answer. Also I went to petco afterward and get refunded. Petco is shocked that both are dead. The manager does not even know teflon will kill birds. They do not think it is virus of course and suspect that my kid handle it improperly. The manager does not even know the beak problem even the bird is in their store for 2 months already.

 

[Inger]

I’m so very sorry you and your kid are going through this. I’m also glad to see you learning and taking things to heart. You will be an excellent bird family when the coast is clear.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[bmx]

Just get a call from vet. She told me everything looks fine including the lung. She have to send tissue samples to a lab for further analysis. She told me it does not looks like teflon but need lab test to confirm. She also urge me to check with local fire dept and gas company. This reminds me that I put the bird to the living room near the entrance. There is a gas metre right outside the house at the same corner. They replaced to a smart metre this year. This really worries me since my kid also does not feel good in the living room somehow. I will be really mad if they did not check carefully. Poor bird and I just buried the yellow bird deep in a wood coffin I made with my kid this morning. I will report back by the end of this week when I heard from the lab. I truly appreciate every single advice I heard from here. This is the most friendly forum I have ever seen. Thanks to the loving birds and loving people who cheer for harmony! I love you all!

 

[noodles123]

<3 I think it is awesome that you guys built that together and I think that is a very beautiful gesture for your bird.

I am so glad you are looking into this and I really hope you get answers.

 

[noodles123]

are they able to see if a virus may have been involved? I know organs usually will tell in some way, but did she mention that at all?

 

[bmx]

are they able to see if a virus may have been involved? I know organs usually will tell in some way, but did she mention that at all?

She did not see anything suspicious from the body. That is why she suspected a natural gas or carbon monoxide. I will get Nicor and fire dept check out tomorrow. That is totally my fault if this is cause. I should think of that since the metre is right outside of the house. I should also try to move them outside in that case.

 

[noodles123]

are they able to see if a virus may have been involved? I know organs usually will tell in some way, but did she mention that at all?

She did not see anything suspicious from the body. That is why she suspected a natural gas or carbon monoxide. I will get Nicor and fire dept check out tomorrow. That is totally my fault if this is cause. I should think of that since the metre is right outside of the house. I should also try to move them outside in that case.

You mean you should have then, or in the future?

 

[bmx]

are they able to see if a virus may have been involved? I know organs usually will tell in some way, but did she mention that at all?

She did not see anything suspicious from the body. That is why she suspected a natural gas or carbon monoxide. I will get Nicor and fire dept check out tomorrow. That is totally my fault if this is cause. I should think of that since the metre is right outside of the house. I should also try to move them outside in that case.

You mean you should have then, or in the future?

I mean I should move the bird outside the house yesterday. I just moved the bird from living room to family room. Will that save them? The doctor also told me there is a 24-hour emergency service 1 hour away. I could save my birds if I know this...

 

[noodles123]

She did not see anything suspicious from the body. That is why she suspected a natural gas or carbon monoxide. I will get Nicor and fire dept check out tomorrow. That is totally my fault if this is cause. I should think of that since the metre is right outside of the house. I should also try to move them outside in that case.

You mean you should have then, or in the future?

I mean I should move the bird outside the house yesterday. I just moved the bird from living room to family room. Will that save them? The doctor also told me there is a 24-hour emergency service 1 hour away. I could save my birds if I know this...

1. You don't know for sure what killed them.
2. It's hard to know with a gas leak---I had one outside 2 weeks ago..It was very weird...Technically it was under the sidewalk, but I felt crazy for months because I smelled gas but it would go away and they couldn't find the source. They finally did.
3. Please don't beat yourself up over something that was not even remotely obvious--- IF it is gas etc, the utility people are more at fault than you..I mean, how would you have known?
4. Get carbon monoxide detectors all over---I have them everywhere. Try to get the decent ones too-- mine went off about a year ago...and it was a huge ordeal and very cold and lots of running around with the bird + fire department etc...They said that the cheap alarms can go off because they get old (or if they are exposed to dust or something)...so the guy who came over said to get better alarms next time. I will ask my mom tomorrow if she remembers what brand he said NOT to get (because my parents had that one lol).

I KNOW he said some varieties of Kidde were okay...


If you know the source of a toxin, always it is best to get them as far away as you can, but you didn't know, and you still don't know for sure that gas was the issue..

**Did you tell the vet about the beak?*** Show her the picture if she never saw the bird..I am NOT a vet (clearly) but an asymptomatic carried would show no signs of damage, as their body would not be damaged..The fact that they both passed away is strange, but that break is still a concern to me.
If one was actively infected and the other was a carrier/spreader, then if you only tested the carrier, you might not see the damage. AGAIN, there was likely more to it (given the fact that they both struggled) but...I just wonder..I feel like there could have been a few things happening at once...maybe?

 

[bmx]

I just get a plug in version deliverred tomorrow.
https://amzn.to/2OKcXxC Let me know if this works.
We have carbon monoxide detector on the first floor ceiling. I want to get one near the bird cage as well. Hopefully we can get this resolved. I told the front desk about the beak. But they want to have the white bird examined since the yellow one passed away more than 24 hours. I will check with the vet tomorrow.

 

[noodles123]

I just get a plug in version deliverred tomorrow.
https://amzn.to/2OKcXxC Let me know if this works.
We have carbon monoxide detector on the first floor ceiling. I want to get one near the bird cage as well. Hopefully we can get this resolved. I told the front desk about the beak. But they want to have the white bird examined since the yellow one passed away more than 24 hours. I will check with the vet tomorrow.

That should work-- I think that is the brand I ended up buying for them..The same model too.

Obviously a gas leak is still a hazard, so still follow-up on that