not good

[Owlet]

This is just NOT fair! One of the prettiest/most amazing birds that I have ever seen...and one of the most problematic I have ever read about!

Between Lincoln,and Jasper and Doodles...sighhh..
C'mon FIDS! you can beat this thing!




Jim

Right?? I wish there was some easy cure all to plucking and other such behaviors. But alas, there is not

 

[AmyMyBlueFront]

More of a vent here than anything, but I feel like an absolute failure to Lincoln. I'm trying everything i can think to make him happy but he still just screams and picks. I'm still waiting for toys to be delivered, some are scheduled for late tomorrow but with the weather we are having I wouldn't be surprised if there's a delay. I keep thinking "hes just hormonal, you always get distressed during this time, just wait it out like you always do" but I can't help but always feel like it's more than that, that I should something more to make him happy even when he's hormonal but I'm not sure what I can do. I'm far from giving up on him, I'll never give up on him really, but I'm just at an absolute loss.

I'm addition I've been really struggling mentally and I'm not really getting the help I need in that aspect. I have a therapy appointment on Thursday though and gonna talk to my therapist about possibly getting additional help and what my options are but they're a limited due to past issues. Ugh. I'm really hoping I can find some solution though so I can be more emotionally equipped and grounded to handle this rather than break down every other day lol

I remember poor Katie going thru exactly what you are when her Jasper Boy was having TT/WF issues,the poor girl was in tears many times. But like you,she didn't give up and now Jasper is doing quite well Hang in there please..it'll all come together soon.



Jim

 

[ChristaNL]

I wish there was some easy cure all to plucking and other such behaviors.

How I wish that wish would come true.

moderately off topic, but it seems to me not only parrots are struggling atm - I've met soo many people the last few weeks who were doing sort of fine and now also have issues with "just hang in there".

You are not alone Owlet, we cannot fight your fight, but we are here for you!

 

[Owlet]

Thank you all for all the support. It really means a lot to me.

 

[FlyBirdiesFly]

I’m really sorry about Lincoln’s plucking, and I hope it stops soon. I would be devastated. Lincoln is lucky to have you as a parront - you’ll clearly do anything for him!

 

[EllenD]

Awe, you're not failing Lincoln at all...You're the reason he's done as well as he has! I can't imagine what condition he'd be in if anyone else was his owner...seriously.

I was reading through the latest replies, and the only thing I can comment on is that yes, I think adding humidity to his environment is a good idea to try and see if it helps...But what people need to keep in-mind is the environment that Lincoln lives in, Colorado...It's basically the same as my environment in central PA right now, it's cold and very dry...And a bath does not equal humidity! That's why I recommended not bathing him more than once a week, because it's going to just make his already dry, itchy skin much, much worse. I know they come from a "tropical" climate, but that is a climate that is humid, not cold and dry as all-hell. I can speak from personal experience, I sell cars for a living, and this time of year my hands just start cracking to pieces because of the dry cold. And it's so much worse after I shower and go outside, or even just wash my hands, dry them, and then go outside...So that's the reason I said to limit his bathing, and to at least try the Vitamin E oil after his bath. Adding humidity to the room he's in with a humidifier is a great idea, but that's totally different than bathing him, which could make the issue all the more worse, if that is the issue. Obviously his CAV thought that he had a dry-skin issue to recommend the Vitamin E oil, so that could very well be the entire issue he's having right now, the sudden drop in temperature and the dry air that comes along with it has just made his already dry skin much worse...

As far as your question about trying a "UV light" or "Full-Spectrum light", there are a million different takes on this question, but there are two things I can tell you for sure: #1.) You absolutely don't want to use an artificial light of any kind to lengthen his days at all, because that's just going to make his hormones much worse; his light-schedule should be the same as the Natural Light Schedule in your area, so if you were to buy an artificial light, you'd only want to use while the sun is up....and then #2.) There are a million different types of artificial lights, and when it comes right down to it, the only type of light that is possibly of any good at all is a "UVB" light, as this is the light spectrum that increases their body's production of Vitamin D, which in-turn can have a positive effect on skin and feathers both...When you hear the term "full-spectrum" light, that just means that it emits UVB light along with UVA and UVD, along with producing heat as a by-product, and these are basically worthless, without going into detail.

What is most-important about choosing an artificial UVB light is that is has a high-enough UVB output that it will make a difference, and then that it is safe and does not emit any harmful light-rays along with the UVB. It's a good rule to always stay away from any artificial UVB bulb that is a Coil/Spiral bulb, because they are the most harmful/dangerous ones, as they emit some very harmful light-rays that are a by-product of the manufacturing process used to make them...The Coil/Spiral UVB bulbs are the ones you hear about causing blindness and skin damage/cancer. The other thing about Coil/Spiral UVB bulbs, just the same as Compact UVB lights (ones shaped like a regular lightbulb and that fit into a regular lightbulb socket) is that neither of them, in-general, emit a strong enough UVB light to make any positive difference at all. The only Compact UVB light bulb that has a useful UVB light output are the Mercury Vapor Bulbs, however these are "all-in-one" bulbs that also emit UVA light and heat in addition to the UVB light. So while there are some very good Mercury Vapor Bulbs out there when it comes to their UVB output, they are also going to emit a good amount of heat as well, which is probably going to be counterproductive if dry-skin is an issue for Lincoln.

The only totally safe and effective UVB lights are the long, UVB tube lights that fit into strip-light fixtures. The two strengths of UVB tube-lights are T10, and then the much stronger T5 tubes. Both emit a good amount of UVB light that is totally safe, but the T5 UVB tube-lights put out enough UVB light that they are comparable to actually having him out in natural sunlight; they also last a lot longer than the T10 UVB lights (all of them, whether tube, compact, or coil/spiral), as the weaker T10 UVB lights must be replaced at least every 6 months, depending on their output level, while the T5 UVB lights only need to be replaced once every year. There are a lot of different UVB output levels, but the most effective and still safe are the 10.0 UVB bulbs (they come in 2.0, 3.0, and 5.0, all of which are weaker than the 10.0)...So in-short, the most effective UVB light that is also safe would be a 10.0 T5 UVB tube-light. They only need replaced once a year, they emit no heat or dangerous light rays, and they have a strong enough UVB light-output that the bird is actually getting enough UVB light to make a difference if he is able to be underneath it for at least a few hours a day (and the T5 tubes are strong enough that they don't have to be close to the light-tube either, which also commonly causes eye and skin damage)...The question comes down to "How beneficial is this going to be for my bird?"

That's where things get fuzzy...Birds are not like reptiles, they don't require an external source of UVB light for their bodies to produce Vitamin D, nor do birds need an excess amount of Vitamin D in order to absorb the nutrition from the food that they eat like some reptiles do. Birds work the same way we as people do as far as this goes. As long as they are eating a healthy diet that provides them with the proper vitamins, minerals, amino acids, etc., then they don't need excess UVB light to provide them with nutrition, nor do their bodies necessarily use the extra UVB light for much at all. Yes, if they get no UVB light at all, just like people, they can start to develop certain Vitamin Deficiency Diseases, but assuming that you don't lock your bird in a closet all day long and you don't feed it junk, then the benefits of putting them under an artificial UVB light are minimal at best. And because people don't understand what they're buying or know much about the different types of lights, a lot of people buy bulbs that are actually very harmful to their birds, even if they keep the bulb at a good distance from their bird.

 

[Laurasea]

You have my support! You are an amazing caring animal lover and your passion for providing the best life amazing! You are not a failure!!! Penny is picking worse too it is so frustrating ! I thought I rescued you and gave you healthy food a huge cage I'm here all the time ( I don't work) lots of baths time outside why...do you still pluck?! So I feel you, once they start so hard to get them to stop. Healing thoughts to you as well! I don't know if you do yoga, but I recommend it. It helps center you and yoga peeps believe you hold emotion as well as stress in certain parts of the body. I know it makes me feel so good when I do it regularly.

 

[Owlet]

@Ellen my only reason for possibly wanting a special light is so he can get the vitamins he needs from the sun since during winter I cannot safely take him outside to get that exposure. From what you're saying I'm getting that the light is unnecessary? But speaking as someone who is regularly struggles with deficiencies in vitamin d I feel that it's something that he needs yet might not be getting and that may be resulting in plucking? I obviously don't want to through his hormones into wack with a light though, so even with a bulb that doesn't actually produce light, would that affect him? Just from getting those "sunlight vitamins" or whatever?

@Laurasea I tried yoga once as part of a treatment plan and honestly it didn't do too much good for me. I use to do meditation but that doesn't work either because my mind runs too fast for me xD I hope Penny recovers soon, it's so hard to watch your little friends hurt themselves and feeling helpless over it.

 

[Laurasea]

Owelet thanks for the Penny love! There is a bunch of the yoga styles, the one i wish I could still do was some type of high intensity strength yoga, it kicked your butt, more than when I had to run 2 miles do weights and then crew (row) . I hope you find the right help to deal with all that is on your plate, I would carry some if your burden if I could. I suffer from liw vit D too, have you had your B12 checked? I hope Lincoln starts improving soon

 

[EllenD]

What I'm saying is that there are only a few UVB lights that are BOTH effective and safe at the same time, so you want to get the right type if you get one...However, putting a bird under a UVB light does not "provide them with more vitamins", that's where people misunderstand how UVB light works...Same thing for us, going out in the sun does not provide us with Vitamin D at all. That's not how our physiology, or that of a bird, or a rodent, or any other mammal works. What exposure to the sun, or specifically the UVB rays from the sun does is it triggers the manufacturing of Vitamin D in our bodies (and a few other vitamins that don't really play a part in much)...However, there's only so much Vitamin D that our bodies can actually absorb, and that's the case with all vitamins/minerals, once we hit our saturation point the excess is either excreted in the urine/urates, or in the case of Vitamin D, it's stored in the fat cells. Same with birds. So if your bird eats a regular, daily diet that is varied and healthy, he's already getting more Vitamin D than his body can use, and the rest will be stored in his fat cells. And often toxicity occurs, especially with the vitamins that are stored in the fat in-excess (A, D, E, and K)...

So that's why these artificial "bird lights" are not effective, and depending on the type, as I explained in the first post, they are extremely dangerous...Creatures like most Reptiles and some Amphibians cannot manufacture certain Vitamins at all without constant UVB exposure, that's why they need these UVB lights every day. They just excrete vitamins and minerals that they eat without UVB light for 10-12 hours every day...But that's not how birds, mammals, etc. work. So the bottom-line is that most of the time people put their birds under these lights and they are doing absolutely nothing at all for the bird UNLESS the bird is fed a horrible diet. And in a lot of cases they buy a dangerous type of UVB light, such as a coil/spiral one, and this causes blindness, skin cancer, etc. So it's a lose/lose situation for mammals and birds...

 

[Laurasea]

EllenD,
I disagree very few foods contain vitamin D. Sone foods that naturally contain Vitamin D are fish liver oil, some fish, beef liver, and trace amounts in egg yolk. I don't think ekkies are getting fed liver oil.in America we get most of our vit D from fortified food, food in which vit D has been added. Ekkies are usually not fed a pellet diet, abd so are at greater risk. I don't drink milk, and try not eat processed food, I have a Vit D deficiency.. Harderian gland is a gland in the birds eye, a gland we don't have, that absorbs ubv and is important in molting and other function to the bird, the preen gland containers oils that when exposed to sunlight convert into vit D so that the next time the bird preebs it intakes vit D... I could then see that ekkies on a non pellet fortified diet, and not getting sun exposure , probably are vit D deficient......

 

[charmedbyekkie]

Hey, Owlet. Just thinking about Lincoln. Have his foraging toys come in yet? How are you hanging in there?

 

[Owlet]

Hey, Owlet. Just thinking about Lincoln. Have his foraging toys come in yet? How are you hanging in there?

They're actually suppose to come in today. We usually get mail around 4-5pm so not for another 7-8 or so hours though since it's only 9. Making some bird bread in the meantime that i could stuff into the foraging toys. I got some of his toy parts and a finger trap wreath thing from mysafebirdstore and his pak-o-bird yesterday though. excited about that, I'll probably make a post about the pak-o-bird later.

 

[charmedbyekkie]

Awesome idea! I'm also waiting on Cairo's foraging toys, but I couldn't think of what to put inside them.

Looking forward to your update on the pak-o-bird. Cairo goes everywhere with us, on our shoulders if we're outside or in his Cell-tei Birdie Go-Go if we're inside a shopping centre or restaurant. I'm sure Lincoln would love the adventure, even if it is getting a bit chilly where you are!!

 

[Owlet]

Yeah I definitely can't take him out in winter since it's bellow freezing usually, so mostly just gonna be using it for car transportation and what not until it gets warmer.

 

[Owlet]

Toys came, I'm less than happy. One was straight up missing and apparently it was out of stock but no where on the site or anywhere was I told that until I looked at the invoice within the package. Probably wont be getting that till 12/5 when they're back in stock. One of them... i don't know :/ I can't see how he's gonna get the food out at all because i couldn't even get it out and it's random luck if you get any out at all because of how the toy is designed. The last one is okay..

Edit: Nvm turned out i will NOT be getting the item at all and will be *hopefully* be getting a refund soon..

 

[Anansi]

...But what people need to keep in-mind is the environment that Lincoln lives in, Colorado...It's basically the same as my environment in central PA right now, it's cold and very dry...And a bath does not equal humidity! That's why I recommended not bathing him more than once a week, because it's going to just make his already dry, itchy skin much, much worse. I know they come from a "tropical" climate, but that is a climate that is humid, not cold and dry as all-hell. I can speak from personal experience, I sell cars for a living, and this time of year my hands just start cracking to pieces because of the dry cold. And it's so much worse after I shower and go outside, or even just wash my hands, dry them, and then go outside...So that's the reason I said to limit his bathing, and to at least try the Vitamin E oil after his bath...

You make excellent points here, Ellen. But notice the sections I've bolded. The examples you give are predicated, for the most part, upon your going outside. As Lincoln would not be going outside in that weather, the change in temps and resultant dip in humidity would not be anywhere near so drastic. In fact, the interior of one's home is controlled, and thus not as subject to the seasonal variations that the weather brings to the area outside.

That said, I do realize that humidity can be affected, if even to a significantly lesser degree, indoors as well. Which is why I'd suggested attending to the humidity issue (if there is indeed a humidity issue) before increasing bath frequency. I can only speak from experience, and 2-3x a week has never been a problem for my ekkies. And I've done so here in Jersey, in the Bronx (NY), in Connecticut, and in the Poconos and Philadelphia (Pennsylvania).

Granted, none of these homes have humidity issues. And none of my birds has a chronically dry skin affliction. Though at this point, we don't know if your (Owlet's) home has a humidity issue... nor do we know if Lincoln has a chronically dry skin affliction. But under this prevailing theory, he was fine until the alleged change in humidity triggered skin irritation. So my thought is that, first and foremost, the humidity of the home needs to be gauged. If there's no actual issue there, much of this discussion will have turned out to be academic. And if there is an issue, at least you have a place to start.

And on a different note, you're doing a wonderful job with Lincoln. It's natural for you to be second-guessing yourself like this. But trust me, if I didn't think you were actually doing right by Lincoln I certainly wouldn't say so. Nor would so many of the other bird lovers who have chimed in on this thread. Our passion for our birds would've compelled us to honesty. So please don't beat yourself up over what's happening. Remember: marathon... not a sprint.