Not on my watch, you won't! A horribly lengthy post.

[Hawk]

I'm not a fan of pellets, it's way to "processed" for my liking....too many chemical additives and coloring in it, which birds can not process in their digestive systems.

Something to think about....Good lucK !

So what do you feed your parrots. Please give a days example. Thanks!

I'm also not a fan of pellets due to the amount of processing, artificial/unnatural ingredients and the fact they are so broad spectrum for "all parrots". I think pellets are better than an all seed diet, but I disagree with the notion they are the best diet. There aren't any pellet trees in the jungle! For example, Kiwi was on a diet of cooked grains/legumes mix 2X a day with fruit in the morning, veg in the evenings and some seed/nuts during the day. About 80% of what he eats is moist food (produce or grains/legumes). Parrots naturally derive a lot of moisture from their food, which pellets don't provide unless you soak them. What he eats changes seasonally too, depending on what's readily available. I am currently switching him away from the grains and legumes and more into a fruit/veg based diet with some sprouted grains/legumes and of course nuts and seeds. I swear, he's getting even healthier!

Which looks closer to a parrots natural diet to you? The onions and mushrooms are mine, but he will get to eat abundantly from all the other things on the table I brought home after my weekly grocery shop.

Love that Picture ...Your parrot is in heaven with all this food there for the taking..... I have 2 refrigerators, one is in the walk in pantry, and that fridge is basically loaded with all parrot food, much like your table there.
Dose your Zon like Black eyed peas? My birds love those along with soy beans and edamame.

 

[Hawk]

So what do you feed your parrots. Please give a days example. Thanks!

I'm also not a fan of pellets due to the amount of processing, artificial/unnatural ingredients and the fact they are so broad spectrum for "all parrots". I think pellets are better than an all seed diet, but I disagree with the notion they are the best diet. There aren't any pellet trees in the jungle! For example, Kiwi was on a diet of cooked grains/legumes mix 2X a day with fruit in the morning, veg in the evenings and some seed/nuts during the day. About 80% of what he eats is moist food (produce or grains/legumes). Parrots naturally derive a lot of moisture from their food, which pellets don't provide unless you soak them. What he eats changes seasonally too, depending on what's readily available. I am currently switching him away from the grains and legumes and more into a fruit/veg based diet with some sprouted grains/legumes and of course nuts and seeds. I swear, he's getting even healthier!

Which looks closer to a parrots natural diet to you? The onions and mushrooms are mine, but he will get to eat abundantly from all the other things on the table I brought home after my weekly grocery shop.

Love that Picture ...Your parrot is in heaven with all this food there for the taking..... I have 2 refrigerators, one is in the walk in pantry, and that fridge is basically loaded with all parrot food, much like your table there.
Dose your Zon like Black eyed peas? My birds love those along with soy beans and edamame.

Being that we have quite a big property, our garden is about half to 3/4 of an acre alone....we grow just about every veggie we can, plus we have a huge strawberry patch, pear trees, apple trees, raspberry bushes...

 

[Dopey]

Hawk - do you work full time outside of the home?
Thank you for your menu. Well, your parrots menu.

 

[Birdman666]

I'm sorry, but I have failed miserably at rehabbing pluckers...

I had a mutilating goffins at one time. Horribly neurotic bird, don't really have a background on him. I was just the first person he ever went to, so they asked me to take him...

At the time he had zero feathers below his head, and festering wounds...

We managed to get him to obscessive-compulsively chew up rope toys instead of himself. I thought this was a good thing. We got his wounds closed, and he was starting to regrow feathers... I thought he had turned around. He became my daughter's shadow...

But as it turns out, he was ingesting the rope toy. He died from an intestinal blockage. The "cure" was fatal...

So, I honestly don't have any answers for you on this one.

I'm sorry. But I failed at this one...

 

[Hawk]

Hawk - do you work full time outside of the home?
Thank you for your menu. Well, your parrots menu.

Used to work outside of home. I am a Stealth aircraft / Aerospace/ Nuclear engineer. 8 yrs. of college

I have a very sophisticated and powerful computer set up, so I'm home now doing high-tech writing from home. I have written a few articles, designed a new medical device that is now in use world wide and was published in medical journal. And basically enjoying being home now.

 

[Dopey]

Ok - thank you.
I use pellets for convenience.

Congrats on your achievements and thank you for contributing to the medical world. It's always nice to know that our medical world is moving forward.

 

[Kiwibird]

Ok - thank you.
I use pellets for convenience.

Congrats on your achievements and thank you for contributing to the medical world. It's always nice to know that our medical world is moving forward.

There are some really great products that you can soak WITH pellets to incorporate more produce into the diet (in addition to fresh produce) OR just sprinkle them on top dry OR use in foraging activities. Gardenflora blend by Goldenfeast is *excellent* and very convenient to use. Goldenfeast Gardenflora ? Goldenfeast Parrot Food So are "Just Tomatoes" products (not just tomatoes, despite the name lol), which are freeze dried and crunchy, but those are a *tad* expensive to offer daily in any significant quantities (though they make great foraging treats)- All Products - Just Tomatoes, Etc.! I'll also be doing a sprouting thread soon. Great for parrots and people, cheap and not very time-consuming "gardening"

 

[Kiwibird]

As not to divert this thread any more, I do hope the OP now has a starting point for testing with the heavy metals (zinc is a VERY common culprit, as it is in so many things in a home a curious bird could ingest) and food allergies. We are all rooting for Sweet Pea to heal and return to good health very soon!

 

[Giggleagain]

I hope you allow me to make a collective post in response to all your input. I appreciatel your help more than you could ever know!

Diet: the "base" food are Nutri-berries, recommended by both the bird store and the vet. He only picks out the safflower seeds, he will not eat anything else - it goes to waste.

Although Roudybush pellets are offered on a permanent basis, he doesn't touch them. I've tried feeding him oatmeal mixed with water, orange juice, apple juice, cranberry juice (all of the juices freshly extracted from fruit). He will NOT even try the oatmeal or any fruit, but I keep offering.

I've tried every vegetable I could think of, raw and cooked. No go.

I give him "Bean Cuisine", a mixture of cooked brown rice, peas, a variety of beans, barley, pasta, green and brown lentils, and some other seeds I don't recognize. He will eat some of it, but is very picky. He mostly eats the small white beans. I also have a veggie "soak" that he refuses.

What he loves to eat: what I eat, minus the vegetables. I trick him sometimes but he's too smart. He spits them out every time. Spaghetti, rice, bread, fish, and chicken are never rejected. He pretty much displays the same food predilection as Clover, but she at least eats apples, grapes, corn, and broccoli. I've read that Quakers aren't into veggies very much. Lately she's even trying strawberries, but they have to be on the green side... she hates anything pink, orange, red, or dark blue. If the grapes aren't green, they have to be PEELED (thank you very much).

Now that he is disabled because of his collar I am going to grind up his Roudibush and I am lighly cooking some veggies. I will grind them into mush and mix with the ground up pellets and some fresh carrot juice. He will get it by syringe... he seems to love the syringe. Maybe I'll start mushing up all veggies and fruits and feed them by syringe, that way I know how much he eats. He can eat his Nutri-berries (or part of them) to keep himself entertained as long as I know he's getting some real nutrition.

Heavy metal toxicity test: I will ask for an X-Ray (in case there's a problem with the bone in his leg) and the metal toxicity test to be done first. Thanks for that suggestion.

Toys: he's attached to a large bell that (I think) is his mate. He will sometimes pick at his preening toys, but prefers anything with a bell on it. Bells are definitely a turn-on though! I will ask the vet whether he believes that sexual frustration could be the cause of his behavior. Could it be that Clover's presence frustrates him even MORE? She was DNA'd female and he has tried to feed her regurgitated food. She wanted no part of it and gave him the cold shoulder.

This morning he ate from the syringe, but now he's being very aggressive towards me. I don't blame him, he's miserable and can't move around much.

Can I still at least mist him while he has the collar on? There is a lot of new feather growth, specially on his shoulders, his neck, throat, and wings. His belly will unfortunately remain bare forever. There is nothing growing there, not even a trace. he does have some small yellowish bumps on the belly, but I doubt those are going to turn into feathers, I think they might be fat deposits.

Again, thank you all and keep it coming. I can't try everything at once, but one thing after another, or I won't know what works! I'll update tomorrow after the vet visit!

I keep having to edit my posts because I don't notice mistakes until AFTER I post

Sorry, I have to add a quick question: is it normal for parrots to produce crop milk?

 

[Bandespresso]

The rescue I volunteer at had two mutilators; a goffins and a mollucan. The mollucan recently passed away from a heart attack

One thing that seemed to help was to set up foraging toys to distract from the compulsions. Does Sweet Pea like boxes? Fill a box with his favorite treats and toys! The key is to keep him entertained as much as possible. It also seems that he isn't getting a lot of nutrients with his current diet...I would almost say a high-quality seed mix would be better than just picking off the safflower seeds from nutriberries. I hear a lot of good things about using mash for picky birds which is basically grains, legumes, and veggies mixed together. I have never personally tried it because all the rescue birdies eat chop but it absolutely worth a shot. Forgive me if I am being nit-picky about diet, it's just EXTRA important for a mutilator to get lots of good nutrients due to blood loss.

I would also suggest a felt poncho to cover his body and distract from his legs. There is a woman who makes really cute ones that have fringe too! I'm pretty sure I can't post a link because that would technically be advertising (mods??) but it is pretty easy to find via google. We were going to try one for Wendy before she passed. Good luck and keep us updated!!

 

[Hawk]

Ok - thank you.
I use pellets for convenience.

Congrats on your achievements and thank you for contributing to the medical world. It's always nice to know that our medical world is moving forward.

Thank you....I've traveled all over the world for nuclear engineering advice and aircraft retro fits....Tiring job...want to know a secret??? we (America), supplied Iran with their Nuclear power plant supplies, but we don't want them building nukes, how ignorant is our government anyway? Give a kid an Ice cream cone and tell them they can't eat it.

I worked for All hospitals in Ohio, Indiana and Michigan at one time, medical consultant to ICU's, and Trauma, Worked Directly under the Vice president of all Hospital operations in those states...Got fed up with the 70 hour week. Went into engineering.

Spent time in Brazil on an engineering retro upgrade...got up close and personal with the parrots of the wild down there....what grossed me out is the outlanders eat parrots like a Cornish hen....wanted to hurt somebody for that....but have to respect the ways and diversity down there, like it or not.

 

[Delfin]

love the poncho idea. Maybe look for supplements instead of grinding up pellets. I understand that mashed sweet potato is good.

 

[Bandespresso]

love the poncho idea. Maybe look for supplements instead of grinding up pellets. I understand that mashed sweet potato is good.

Agreed. I rarely advocate the use of supplements but, in this case, it is probably necessary. A warmed-up sweet potato is nutritious and irresistible! I usually make some slits and microwave it for about 6 minutes then let it cool for a bit before giving it to Espresso.

 

[jugoya]

When you give him a bath... Try mixing pure Aloe Vera juice in with the water. Even spray him down twice a day or so.

My Broto when through a period when he was mutilating his wing. It had to do with the dryness of the skin and then he started chewing on feathers.

I doubt that is the case here... but an aloe soak- 1/4 a cup of the juice to about a liter of water could help. It sooths just about anything and if he ingests it well its good for him too!

 

[Hawk]

I hope you allow me to make a collective post in response to all your input. I appreciatel your help more than you could ever know!

Diet: the "base" food are Nutri-berries, recommended by both the bird store and the vet. He only picks out the safflower seeds, he will not eat anything else - it goes to waste.

Although Roudybush pellets are offered on a permanent basis, he doesn't touch them. I've tried feeding him oatmeal mixed with water, orange juice, apple juice, cranberry juice (all of the juices freshly extracted from fruit). He will NOT even try the oatmeal or any fruit, but I keep offering.

I've tried every vegetable I could think of, raw and cooked. No go.

I give him "Bean Cuisine", a mixture of cooked brown rice, peas, a variety of beans, barley, pasta, green and brown lentils, and some other seeds I don't recognize. He will eat some of it, but is very picky. He mostly eats the small white beans. I also have a veggie "soak" that he refuses.

What he loves to eat: what I eat, minus the vegetables. I trick him sometimes but he's too smart. He spits them out every time. Spaghetti, rice, bread, fish, and chicken are never rejected. He pretty much displays the same food predilection as Clover, but she at least eats apples, grapes, corn, and broccoli. I've read that Quakers aren't into veggies very much. Lately she's even trying strawberries, but they have to be on the green side... she hates anything pink, orange, red, or dark blue. If the grapes aren't green, they have to be PEELED (thank you very much).

Now that he is disabled because of his collar I am going to grind up his Roudibush and I am lighly cooking some veggies. I will grind them into mush and mix with the ground up pellets and some fresh carrot juice. He will get it by syringe... he seems to love the syringe. Maybe I'll start mushing up all veggies and fruits and feed them by syringe, that way I know how much he eats. He can eat his Nutri-berries (or part of them) to keep himself entertained as long as I know he's getting some real nutrition.

Heavy metal toxicity test: I will ask for an X-Ray (in case there's a problem with the bone in his leg) and the metal toxicity test to be done first. Thanks for that suggestion.

Toys: he's attached to a large bell that (I think) is his mate. He will sometimes pick at his preening toys, but prefers anything with a bell on it. Bells are definitely a turn-on though! I will ask the vet whether he believes that sexual frustration could be the cause of his behavior. Could it be that Clover's presence frustrates him even MORE? She was DNA'd female and he has tried to feed her regurgitated food. She wanted no part of it and gave him the cold shoulder.

This morning he ate from the syringe, but now he's being very aggressive towards me. I don't blame him, he's miserable and can't move around much.

Can I still at least mist him while he has the collar on? There is a lot of new feather growth, specially on his shoulders, his neck, throat, and wings. His belly will unfortunately remain bare forever. There is nothing growing there, not even a trace. he does have some small yellowish bumps on the belly, but I doubt those are going to turn into feathers, I think they might be fat deposits.

Again, thank you all and keep it coming. I can't try everything at once, but one thing after another, or I won't know what works! I'll update tomorrow after the vet visit!

I keep having to edit my posts because I don't notice mistakes until AFTER I post

Sorry, I have to add a quick question: is it normal for parrots to produce crop milk?

"Sorry, I have to add a quick question: is it normal for parrots to produce crop milk? "


It doesn't hurt them one bit, matter of fact it's good for digestion and very nutritious for them...no need to worry.

 

[Giggleagain]

Thanks for the crop milk response Hawk! I couldn't find anything on the net about parrots and crop milk... just chickens and doves!

Yesterday's vet visit left me depressed. The only positive thing I heard was "well, we were lucky because he dodged the bullet and is still here". I happily told the vet that I had supplemented Pea's safflower eating with ground up vegetables fed by syringe into his beak. He told me what I did was dangerous because he could have aspirated the food. I told him I fed him into his BEAK and that he had plenty of time to swallow each small dose before he grabbed the syringe by himself asking for the next one, but then he berated me about changing his diet and making him eat food that could mask test results and said I need to let him eat ONLY what he will eat on his own, until further notice. And that ONLY thing he eats we all know what it is: safflower seeds.

He changed his bandage and put on a new one. He's still on more antibiotics and pain meds, and of course is wearing his collar. He advised not to take him out of the cage at all, keep him in his room at 80 - 85° temperature. NOT to mist him, NOT to bathe him, NOT to touch him. How can this be good for him?

He of course tries to lift his leg to his beak constantly, is very angry, looks forward to the syringe food and is disappointed that all he's getting is antibiotics and pain meds. He drinks a bit of water and eats the darned seeds. The vet will "maybe" do an X-ray on Tuesday and wants to wait 3 - 5 weeks for the blood test because he wants him to regenerate the blood he's lost.

I'm feeling like a deflated balloon.

 

[Minimaker]

I'd try a different avian vet, because this does not sound correct. Anyone else agree? How could a safflower only diet be helpful in any way??? How could leaving him on his own to fret and stew be helpful in any way? I don't think so personally. Everyone knows dry skin can cause the worst irritation, even in people. In the wild, birds get wet all the time due to rain/humidity and they need that.

 

[miloslave]

Huh? I am quite confused now as well. So basically, if i understand it correctly, feed him unhealthy food, have him have irritated skin and ignore him and that will solve the problem? How is suddenly ignoring a sensitive creature going to help? Pea will never understand why he is being ignored and I for one think that if his behaviour is psychological this will only increase his neurotic tendencies.

But then again I am no vet. I still vote for a second opinion as well though.

 

[Dinosrawr]

I think a second opinion would also be a good thing. It never hurts (well, not physically, just the wallet!), and you may find another avian vet that has more experience with extreme self mutilators. His reluctance to do tests seems rather odd and unexplained, considering that plucking/self-harming is related to metal poisoning which can be potentially diagnosed via x-Ray. Unless he's just trying to keep him out of stressful situations, but still.

I'm also curious about no spraying or bathing? The only thing I can come up with is that it stirs the desire to preen, which can perhaps result in further mutilation? Otherwise I'd imagine a nice spray with some aloe would definitely be a bit relieving. I hope that you can find something to help soon, and that perhaps a second opinion will provide you with a more positive and reassure outlook. Thank you for giving your all!

 

[Delfin]

get a second opinion