Pray for James

[ChristaNL]

Oi Sille...
I was afraid he would not just 'warm up and bounce back' (one can always hope of course) but I did not expect you to go through another night of hands-on again.

Do you think he might have the equivalent of 'an upset stomach'/'indigestion' because of all the extra-rich-(baby) food? (on top of all the getting warm and breathing again issues).

Keeping my fingers (&toes) crossed on you finding a CAV today.

 

[SilleIN]

Oi Sille...
I was afraid he would not just 'warm up and bounce back' (one can always hope of course) but I did not expect you to go through another night of hands-on again.

Do you think he might have the equivalent of 'an upset stomach'/'indigestion' because of all the extra-rich-(baby) food? (on top of all the getting warm and breathing again issues).

Keeping my fingers (&toes) crossed on you finding a CAV today.

My experience once a bird is that close to death, their system has stopped working all together and a lot of the birds I have seen in this state, may survive the initial trauma, but die because their system just doesn't kick start again.

It is my experience that the warmth of the hand rearing formula and the probiotics in it helps start the system again. The carbo vitalis also helps doing that.

My birds gets to have baby food once in a while during the breeding season, as the probiotics are good for them and this never gives them an upset stomach.

I have saved anything from ducks attacked by mink, chickens, where the electricity went (and the heating bulb as a consequence) to parakeets attacked by a rat by giving baby formula with good result. However I have never had a bird survive, who had stopped breathing before. The 2 times before, they died anyway and only lived for 15 minutes after being revived.

I would also not expect 10 ml of baby formula to give him problems for 5 hours.

Once a bird gets this cold (he was really cold, as in I thought he was dead) the muscles fill up with lactic acid and I would expect the internal organs does something similar. Once the bird regains it's normal functions I would expect these toxins to be flushed through his already overworked system and could potentially kill him.

I was aware this could happen, as this happens to humans recovering from hypothermia. I actually saw the same sort of symptoms humans go through in James. I did however not know what to expect from his digestive system, as that is very different from humans. I tried to "listen" to what he wanted and he really liked getting a lot of liquid, so I would boil water and let it cool to about 40 degrees Celsius. This would help him heat up, but not burn his crop.

As what I saw in the other end was quite dry, I expect he also got dehydrated by being stuck and as mentioned even though he ate, it didn't seem to pass through the crop- only the liquid.

I can't figure out if what he has been pooping all night is what he ate before he got stuck and that has had problems passing. There just doesn't seem to have gone any solids from his crop through and he has pooped about 15 times from 9 o'clock yesterday morning till about 11 today (so 26 hours) and all of them were about 2-5 times the size his normal dropping. Thinking about it, 15 doesn't sound like much for a large macaw. Maybe he had such hard time passing it so one poop basically was 2-5 poops in one- ohh I don't know.

All I know is, I would always give baby formula in a crisis in the future. It's warm, it has probiotics, it's 80% liquid, it's easily absorbed energy and it tastes good enough, that most of the birds wants it when ill.

At any rate James' crop has shrunk quite a lot, which means his system is starting to take in nourishment and that's what matters

 

[EllenD]

I'm glad he's doing better, but I would be getting him to your CAV as soon as you can, he needs to have a plain-film x-ray done to check for internal injuries/bleeding, free-fluid, and most importantly free-gas/air, as well as to check for Pneumonia in his lungs from being compressed...With dark stools after being compressed like that for seemingly a long time (and no-doubt him frantically trying to free himself by moving/pulling/twisting his body), that could be an indication of internal bleeding. Blood in their feces isn't usually "red", but rather dark brown, dark green, or black. And I'd also be concerned about a ruptured air-sac and free-air in his peritoneum, chest, etc. It only takes a tiny pin-hole in an air-sac to cause free-air to escape, and this will cause pain/cramping/discomfort, and eventually breathing issues and infection. A regular x-ray should show any signs of internal injury, bleeding, or free gas or fluid, and then also routine Blood-Work to check his bleeding-times...There is no way to know how long he was stuck or what part of his body was compressed, and of course it's expected that he was trying frantically to free himself until he exhausted himself..

Hopefully he's fine and just physically exhausted and stress is causing any issues that he's still having, but of course you need to make sure...

 

[ChristaNL]

Ha, thanks for the explanation.

I did not know just how much formula he got inside him and/or if his system was used to it (a bit anyway).

No way I am doubting your knowlege etc. - just trying to learn from what you and other people are doing.

Glad to read the pooping is getting back on track etc.
(Already the 'playing wth his friend' made me sigh in relief this morning.)


I hope this is the last time you needed to be there all through the night and he will bounce back to great health from now on.

 

[LaManuka]

Sending love and strength to you and James, and lots of warmth from our Aussie sunshine, we have plenty to share!

 

[Laurasea]

Keep fighting James!!

 

[SilleIN]

I'm glad he's doing better, but I would be getting him to your CAV as soon as you can, he needs to have a plain-film x-ray done to check for internal injuries/bleeding, free-fluid, and most importantly free-gas/air, as well as to check for Pneumonia in his lungs from being compressed...With dark stools after being compressed like that for seemingly a long time (and no-doubt him frantically trying to free himself by moving/pulling/twisting his body), that could be an indication of internal bleeding. Blood in their feces isn't usually "red", but rather dark brown, dark green, or black. And I'd also be concerned about a ruptured air-sac and free-air in his peritoneum, chest, etc. It only takes a tiny pin-hole in an air-sac to cause free-air to escape, and this will cause pain/cramping/discomfort, and eventually breathing issues and infection. A regular x-ray should show any signs of internal injury, bleeding, or free gas or fluid, and then also routine Blood-Work to check his bleeding-times...There is no way to know how long he was stuck or what part of his body was compressed, and of course it's expected that he was trying frantically to free himself until he exhausted himself..

Hopefully he's fine and just physically exhausted and stress is causing any issues that he's still having, but of course you need to make sure...

I am calling my regular avian vet first thing tomorrow morning. I could only get hold of "regular" vet on call today, so I decided to keep a close eye on him.

He does have quite a large bruise on his right wing and a puncture on his lower beak. The latter does not look like it's been bleeding. He was actively bleeding from the wound on his wing, when I found him, but that stopped bleeding on it's own quite quickly, when I got him inside.

Fortunately his feces has not been dark, regular green, but all 3 parts has been muddled together as when they have been keeping it in for a little too long and I would have liked a bit more fluid in it.

During the afternoon he started having normal droppings, where all 3 parts were clearly visible and he did not have any problems passing them.

He seems a little weak, when he climbs, but he's rather active, when he's moving about, but he does take more naps than usual. He's still quite thirsty, but his thirst for exploring the house (they usually live in large aviaries outside) overtakes his behavior. He has already found 2 stashes of walnuts and I let him have as many as he likes. He normally opens walnuts with no problem, but he doesn't seem to have the strength to crack them open yet. I make a small crack in them and he then does the rest.

I don't know if it's just me, but I think he looks like he's lost some weight. His chest bone seems to be protruding a bit and James has always been a little overweight. I haven't weighed him yet.

I am thinking about keeping them indoor over winter. The indoor aviary is about 10 degrees Celsius and I think it may be a little too cold for him, the connecting outdoor aviary follows the weather and that can go below freezing (though not yet- I think about 5 at the moment). And if I don't put them back soon, the temperature difference might make them ill. At this point I have put them to sleep in the bird room in the house, which is about 15 Celsius as the rest of the house is 20 Celsius and it's not possible for them to go back outside if they get used to 20 degrees. What are your thoughts?

 

[SilleIN]

Ha, thanks for the explanation.

I did not know just how much formula he got inside him and/or if his system was used to it (a bit anyway).

No way I am doubting your knowlege etc. - just trying to learn from what you and other people are doing.

Glad to read the pooping is getting back on track etc.
(Already the 'playing wth his friend' made me sigh in relief this morning.)


I hope this is the last time you needed to be there all through the night and he will bounce back to great health from now on.

In critical situations I would never just pour lots of formula in them. Just enough to kick start their digestion again.

When I have babies for rearing, I always make too much formula. Instead of just throwing the rest away, I give some to the adult parrots. It makes them used to get something good from a syringe, so if I need to medicate them at some point, they see the syringe and go "yummi" and not "EEK, what's that!". And it's also full of probiotics, so it's also good for them (of not fed to much).

 

[YUMgrinder]

WOW that is an amazing story of revival! I know what its like to have the bird tense up, as it dies... it's very disturbing and sad, and most of the time means your bird is gone, but you didn't let that happen! Kudos! Can we have a lesson?

Also, what is... "carbo vitalis"

 

[FlyBirdiesFly]

You can do it James! Keep on fighting!

Amazing how you saved his life. You’re his hero!!!

 

[Scott]

What an incredible story of redemption and resilience. Sille, you are an amazing parront and James is so fortunate to have you at his side. Hopefully he will continue to improve and have no lasting ill effects from his ordeal.

 

[ChristaNL]

I hope everyone is doing better today.

Good luck getting in touch with your CAV-- it is anything like the human-doctors they will be really, really busy today and tomorrow (dealing with everything that had to wait but can't really wait).
Keeping fingers crossed.

 

[SilleIN]

WOW that is an amazing story of revival! I know what its like to have the bird tense up, as it dies... it's very disturbing and sad, and most of the time means your bird is gone, but you didn't let that happen! Kudos! Can we have a lesson?

Also, what is... "carbo vitalis"

I basically use my training from human revival, but as he tensed up, I just started yelling his name, pulled at his legs to try to stop the body from going into that position. I have no idea if that helped or not I just didn't want him to die. I shuck him and blew air into him with my mouth covering his entire beak and nares and compressed his chest. Looking back I felt like an octopus doing 100 things at once. The only thing I was thinking was I could do nothing wrong. If I did nothing he would surely die and as he stopped breathing, I guess he DID die.

Sorry it's called Carbo Vegetabilis. I probably thought it was called vitalis as it has been a life safer more than once. It was recommended to me by an American cockatiel breeder. As I have had rosellas for many years you will find a lifeless chick in a nest box. The parents might abandon it for a number of reasons and many people say "that's nature- let it take it's course" but as long as there is life, there is hope. I haven't been able to safe every abandoned chick, but I seem to be getting better. I actually don't know what it really does, but I was told it kick starts the digestive system, so I keep using it.

I don't know if I was just lucky or I did everything just right. All I know is I did everything I could think of as fast as I could.

A lot of it is trial and error as with the cramps the following night. I did however know, that any cramp would add to the lactic acid he was already struggling to get rid of, so I tried different things to stop the cramps and found out that keeping him under the blanket stopped the cramps. If that would be the solution for another bird or another time, I have no idea.

And everything that was just right for James, might be really wrong with another bird. On the other hand, if the bird has come to the point, where the bird is not breathing and is going into a death cramp, the only thing you can do wrong is to do nothing.

 

[Scott]

Inspired advice, something to remember in a most unfortunate situation.