Regurgitation and weaning in an 11wk old ekkie

[imemi]

Hi all,

I've adopted a young ekkie from a "breeder". He's 12 weeks on Wednesday and was hand-reared. He just loves food, all food, everything we give him. He's still on neocare 3 times a day but I'm having to cut it to 2 because while he screams for it his crop will be full from eating solid foods (fruit, veg, brown rice, oats and 1/4 teaspoon of paradise pellets at the suggestion of the vet.)

We were told to go with "Abundance weaning" by the breeder and the vet, so offer him his choices and let him choose. He chooses neocare 2 - 3 times a day but if we do it 3 times a day he regurgitates at least one whole feed which is about 30cc (roughly 10% of his body weight, well he was 390gms at the vets and I need to check again, but need new scales for this.) On Friday he regurgitated all of them but has only done it twice since.

I have multiple questions relating to this and I know the not weighing thing doesn't help!

He loves the interaction of being fed, I know this, but should I cut the neocare to less in a feed and just twice a day instead of entertaining his demands for a midday feed? He sits with me while I work and gets plenty of chats and head scratches from me, and also listens to my music and chirps back at me.

I was told that neocare is terrible for them and paradise pellets too, I've got roudybush as well but have been warned about changing it too much at once. He was raised to 9.5 weeks on the neocare and I've kept it up since, he had a vet check with an avian vet who checked his bacteria levels etc and said he was as healthy as can be (last tuesday). Could it be the neocare causing the regurgitation? Or is it just that Spaz is a guts and eats himself stupid? Could it because he spends then next 10 minutes after a feed trying to run/fly/climb us and I need to put him back on his perch and ignore him for a bit while he digests it?

If it is just because Spaz is a guts should I perhaps only offer him his fruit & veg etc twice a day? Or is cutting the neocare better? The breeder is currently unavailable and I can ask my vet but also would like a lot of input from others that have had them longer.

I planned initially to feed him just chop. I do a similar thing for my ferrets (who have nothing to do with Spaz) Where I actually do chop up a very healthy meat/offal/bone mix for them, so then going on to do his fruit/veg/sprouts etc is no biggie, I just do it all on the same day on different benches with different utensils (and I use gloves so change them between chops and clean my arms etc as I usually do.)

Would you suggest keeping the paradise pellets or cutting them out?

(*note: I understand everyone has different experiences, it's actually why I'm asking, as I want to do the best by him and have a lot of information on hand.)

 

[brighterdaysaviary]

It is very irresponsible for a breeder to sell an unweaned baby bird. Can you return the bird to the breeder and ask the breeder to wean the baby?

 

[GaleriaGila]

Agreed.

Please read this thread, by one of our foremost experts, SilverSage (Dani)...

http://www.parrotforums.com/breeding-raising-parrots/74363-so-you-bought-unweaned-baby.html

 

[imemi]

Have read the thread, do know it's irresponsible and no, Cannot return him unless I want to see him sold on at this age, still unweaned.

I'll go ask my vet.

Does anyone have any input on the neocare and paradise pellets from their point of view?

 

[brighterdaysaviary]

That's very sad. What an awful breeder. :c Next time please buy from a reputable breeder that sells fully weaned babies.

I know that Ekkies have a specialized diet so I am not sure on paradise pellets. I have no ever used neocare though in handfeeding baby birds. Why do you not use formula?

 

[Laurasea]

I'm reading your story, and wish I had the knowledge to help!!! I hope you get some information. And please keep sharing so we can all learn more.

 

[imemi]

That's very sad. What an awful breeder. :c Next time please buy from a reputable breeder that sells fully weaned babies.

I know that Ekkies have a specialized diet so I am not sure on paradise pellets. I have no ever used neocare though in handfeeding baby birds. Why do you not use formula?

Neocare is formula.

My vet says a bit of paradise pellets is good for them, another breeder said to never do it. Spaz's breeder feeds only a seed mix with some chopped veggies and fruit every now and again.

There won't be a next time, Spaz is my forever bird.

 

[chris-md]

Yes your vet really is a valuable resource to start. We have a healthy Ekkie community but nobody who breeds. Best I can tell you is monitor the formula temperature closely, they are picky about that.

Regarding the pellets, I’m a bit disturbed by these. I cannot find a list of ingredients anywhere. Understand ekkies have vey specific dietary requirements, chief among them no added supplements. You need food that doesn’t add extra vitamins and minerals. For me, the only truly acceptable pellets for eclectus are Goldnobles by goldenfeast and TOPs pellets. Most others are going to add extra supplements tot he mix that can harm ekkies.

But you REALLY need to try to wean him onto exclusively fresh veg/fruit/grain.

 

[imemi]

Yes your vet really is a valuable resource to start. We have a healthy Ekkie community but nobody who breeds. Best I can tell you is monitor the formula temperature closely, they are picky about that.

Regarding the pellets, I’m a bit disturbed by these. I cannot find a list of ingredients anywhere. Understand ekkies have vey specific dietary requirements, chief among them no added supplements. You need food that doesn’t add extra vitamins and minerals. For me, the only truly acceptable pellets for eclectus are Goldnobles by goldenfeast and TOPs pellets. Most others are going to add extra supplements tot he mix that can harm ekkies.

But you REALLY need to try to wean him onto exclusively fresh veg/fruit/grain.

Thanks Chris,
I'm always wary when someone suggests a processed food for an animal that can live exclusively on something fresh/unprocessed. Much like my ferrets.

These pellets have the following info:
"Ingredients: Whole grains - corn, soybean and wheat.
Vitamins: A, B1, B2, B3, B5, B6, B9, B12, C, D3, E, H & K.
Minerals: calcium, cobalt, copper, iodine, iron, magnesium, manganese, phosphorus, potassium, selenium, sodium, sulphur & zinc. Fructose and amino acids.

Guaranteed Analysis:
Min Crude Protein 20%
Max Crude Fibre 2.5%
Min Crude Fat 10%
Max Iron 60 mg/kg"



As for his formula temperature we monitor very closely with a digital food thermometer, also he rejects it the moment it's not perfect, too thick too thin, too hot, too cold, never good enough for Spaz. But I prefer it that way rather than getting it wrong and causing him damage.

I think I'll just feed him a little less neocare and keep feeding him regularly until he rejects it himself.

The vet thinks he's just a guts based on his visit to her. But is happy for me to bring him back in over the coming days if I continue to worry and she'll test his gut bacteria and look for parasites etc (even though he was clean and perfect last Tuesday.)

 

[charmedbyekkie]

Yes your vet really is a valuable resource to start. We have a healthy Ekkie community but nobody who breeds. Best I can tell you is monitor the formula temperature closely, they are picky about that.

Regarding the pellets, I’m a bit disturbed by these. I cannot find a list of ingredients anywhere. Understand ekkies have vey specific dietary requirements, chief among them no added supplements. You need food that doesn’t add extra vitamins and minerals. For me, the only truly acceptable pellets for eclectus are Goldnobles by goldenfeast and TOPs pellets. Most others are going to add extra supplements tot he mix that can harm ekkies.

But you REALLY need to try to wean him onto exclusively fresh veg/fruit/grain.

Thanks Chris,
I'm always wary when someone suggests a processed food for an animal that can live exclusively on something fresh/unprocessed. Much like my ferrets.

These pellets have the following info:
"Ingredients: Whole grains - corn, soybean and wheat.
Vitamins: A, B1, B2, B3, B5, B6, B9, B12, C, D3, E, H & K.
Minerals: calcium, cobalt, copper, iodine, iron, magnesium, manganese, phosphorus, potassium, selenium, sodium, sulphur & zinc. Fructose and amino acids.

Guaranteed Analysis:
Min Crude Protein 20%
Max Crude Fibre 2.5%
Min Crude Fat 10%
Max Iron 60 mg/kg"



As for his formula temperature we monitor very closely with a digital food thermometer, also he rejects it the moment it's not perfect, too thick too thin, too hot, too cold, never good enough for Spaz. But I prefer it that way rather than getting it wrong and causing him damage.

I think I'll just feed him a little less neocare and keep feeding him regularly until he rejects it himself.

The vet thinks he's just a guts based on his visit to her. But is happy for me to bring him back in over the coming days if I continue to worry and she'll test his gut bacteria and look for parasites etc (even though he was clean and perfect last Tuesday.)

You'll have to be careful with those pellets and keep a close on your ekkie's mannerisms. Corn is a known trigger for the ekkie-famous toe-tapping issue (which has escalated into ekkies biting at their toes as what happened to one of our members). In addition, ekkies do have a slightly different digestive tract than most birds, so any additional supplements tends to affect them more than other birds - this can also result in toe-tapping but also other issues. I'm not sure if the minerals listed on your pellets is specially added or just part of the ingredients naturally, but either way, if you feel you must do pellets, then watch him closely. Most ekkie parronts find it safest and healthiest to go with fresh fruits and veggies and cooked grains - it just makes for a more balanced ekkie.




Just from personal experience:

Cairo came to us at 1 year and 3 months - he absolutely loves warm rice mixed in with his chop (I think it reminds him of baby food), so if you're struggling to get him to eat his chop, try adding in variance of sizes, textures, or temperature.

If you're syringe feeding your little guy, do keep it up (within SilverSage's advice) because right now I'm lucky Cairo still remembers the feeding syringe and so he willingly takes his medication from the syringe.

A reminder for the fresh chop, do read around for the recommended ekkie foods as well as what vitamins/minerals they contained so you can make sure he has a balanced diet. I'm going through an elimination diet with Cairo (which means less diversity of foods right now), but I'm doing my best to make sure he has broad groups covered.

 

[imemi]

Yes your vet really is a valuable resource to start. We have a healthy Ekkie community but nobody who breeds. Best I can tell you is monitor the formula temperature closely, they are picky about that.

Regarding the pellets, I’m a bit disturbed by these. I cannot find a list of ingredients anywhere. Understand ekkies have vey specific dietary requirements, chief among them no added supplements. You need food that doesn’t add extra vitamins and minerals. For me, the only truly acceptable pellets for eclectus are Goldnobles by goldenfeast and TOPs pellets. Most others are going to add extra supplements tot he mix that can harm ekkies.

But you REALLY need to try to wean him onto exclusively fresh veg/fruit/grain.

Thanks Chris,
I'm always wary when someone suggests a processed food for an animal that can live exclusively on something fresh/unprocessed. Much like my ferrets.

These pellets have the following info:
"Ingredients: Whole grains - corn, soybean and wheat.
Vitamins: A, B1, B2, B3, B5, B6, B9, B12, C, D3, E, H & K.
Minerals: calcium, cobalt, copper, iodine, iron, magnesium, manganese, phosphorus, potassium, selenium, sodium, sulphur & zinc. Fructose and amino acids.

Guaranteed Analysis:
Min Crude Protein 20%
Max Crude Fibre 2.5%
Min Crude Fat 10%
Max Iron 60 mg/kg"



As for his formula temperature we monitor very closely with a digital food thermometer, also he rejects it the moment it's not perfect, too thick too thin, too hot, too cold, never good enough for Spaz. But I prefer it that way rather than getting it wrong and causing him damage.

I think I'll just feed him a little less neocare and keep feeding him regularly until he rejects it himself.

The vet thinks he's just a guts based on his visit to her. But is happy for me to bring him back in over the coming days if I continue to worry and she'll test his gut bacteria and look for parasites etc (even though he was clean and perfect last Tuesday.)

You'll have to be careful with those pellets and keep a close on your ekkie's mannerisms. Corn is a known trigger for the ekkie-famous toe-tapping issue (which has escalated into ekkies biting at their toes as what happened to one of our members). In addition, ekkies do have a slightly different digestive tract than most birds, so any additional supplements tends to affect them more than other birds - this can also result in toe-tapping but also other issues. I'm not sure if the minerals listed on your pellets is specially added or just part of the ingredients naturally, but either way, if you feel you must do pellets, then watch him closely. Most ekkie parronts find it safest and healthiest to go with fresh fruits and veggies and cooked grains - it just makes for a more balanced ekkie.




Just from personal experience:

Cairo came to us at 1 year and 3 months - he absolutely loves warm rice mixed in with his chop (I think it reminds him of baby food), so if you're struggling to get him to eat his chop, try adding in variance of sizes, textures, or temperature.

If you're syringe feeding your little guy, do keep it up (within SilverSage's advice) because right now I'm lucky Cairo still remembers the feeding syringe and so he willingly takes his medication from the syringe.

A reminder for the fresh chop, do read around for the recommended ekkie foods as well as what vitamins/minerals they contained so you can make sure he has a balanced diet. I'm going through an elimination diet with Cairo (which means less diversity of foods right now), but I'm doing my best to make sure he has broad groups covered.

Thank you so much! I read your thread on Cairo and how things are going so I'm being super careful what we give him and how much. Otherwise he gutses himself on his favourites and ignores the good stuff. He's a massive fan of apple, pumpkin, sweet potato and watermelon. I've cut the watermelon to very rarely as it makes his poop funny. He'll eat brown rice and I think I need to try oats too.

With him being so young we're staying away from actually feeding corn as I heard lots and lots of stories of it and with it being the main ingredient in these pellets I'll just make sure I balance his diet out without it or give it as a rare treat.

Today he has completely rejected his formula, he's chewing gumnuts for the fun of it, shredding banksia cones all over the dining room (while I sit here working) and eating his chop. He's decided he likes red quinoa today too. No regurgitation, flexing his wings and pretending to fly and getting great at his controlled falling.

He's also been muttering something over and over that sounds suspiciously like "What the f*ck" which just proves he's been spending too much time with me while I work.


I do appreciate your input so much as I've been reading what you're going through and know that you've got that hands-on approach with Cairo.

 

[ScottB]

Yes your vet really is a valuable resource to start. We have a healthy Ekkie community but nobody who breeds. Best I can tell you is monitor the formula temperature closely, they are picky about that.

Regarding the pellets, I’m a bit disturbed by these. I cannot find a list of ingredients anywhere. Understand ekkies have vey specific dietary requirements, chief among them no added supplements. You need food that doesn’t add extra vitamins and minerals. For me, the only truly acceptable pellets for eclectus are Goldnobles by goldenfeast and TOPs pellets. Most others are going to add extra supplements tot he mix that can harm ekkies.

But you REALLY need to try to wean him onto exclusively fresh veg/fruit/grain.

Hi imemi, hope you find a solution soon. don't mean to hijack the thread but I was also advised recently by the vet on the importance of pellets for my eclectus; the way it was explained actually made a lot of sense to me although it contradicted everything I'd previously read. The premise was that the dietary requirements of the companion eclectus when compared to a wild eclectus is vastly different, and no matter how superior the care/diet the captive bird will always select food types that are nutritionally inferior. I was advised that nutritional profile of a pellet was absolutely required, and that it didn't really matter which brand.

Unfortunately (or perhaps fortunately) my eclectus continues to show absolutely no interest in pellets, even if that is all that is on offer in his cage during the day...at best he will grind them up after I spend lots of time making encouraging noises and bobbing my head, but that's it. But he seems good on a fresh diet of fruit and veg (30/70 respectively), I don't even give him seed now, only what he is able to extract himself from fruits like pomegranate and passionfruit etc..

I was wondering what others thought about the importance of pellets?

I notice you live in Australia too imemi, could it be we have the same unscrupulous breeder? Possible, PM me if you like.
Scott.

 

[imemi]

Hi imemi, hope you find a solution soon. don't mean to hijack the thread but I was also advised recently by the vet on the importance of pellets for my eclectus; the way it was explained actually made a lot of sense to me although it contradicted everything I'd previously read. The premise was that the dietary requirements of the companion eclectus when compared to a wild eclectus is vastly different, and no matter how superior the care/diet the captive bird will always select food types that are nutritionally inferior. I was advised that nutritional profile of a pellet was absolutely required, and that it didn't really matter which brand.

Unfortunately (or perhaps fortunately) my eclectus continues to show absolutely no interest in pellets, even if that is all that is on offer in his cage during the day...at best he will grind them up after I spend lots of time making encouraging noises and bobbing my head, but that's it. But he seems good on a fresh diet of fruit and veg (30/70 respectively), I don't even give him seed now, only what he is able to extract himself from fruits like pomegranate and passionfruit etc..

I was wondering what others thought about the importance of pellets?

I notice you live in Australia too imemi, could it be we have the same unscrupulous breeder? Possible, PM me if you like.
Scott.

Hi ScottB,

That was how our Vet described things too. That certain things are basically "Potato chips" or "Junk food" to Ekkies, they taste good but aren't 100% nutritionally valuable and that ekkies will pick them out and eat only those. So the pellets don't allow them to pick out the junk food bits.

At the moment he's stopped regurgitating but he's also rejecting more formula feeds and is currently scoffing a mix of pumpkin, capsicum, brown rice, apple, quinoa, Broccoli and carrot.

As for the breeder, unless you got yours here in NSW probably not. But I know in my area alone people are offering them from 4 weeks on. This boy we were going to wait for but they got in more babies that needed special care and offered him to me as I was waiting.

I adore him, he's my constant companion, sits on me or my chair while I work, helps me supervise the ferrets and chills with the family in the evening. If you don't mind I'd love to PM you if I have any more issues or questions!

 

[chris-md]

Sounds alike you’re one of the rare few without serious “picky eater” challenges, Scott! Color me jealous

Don’t be afraid of a little seed every now and then. It’s easy, with the deafening roar of “seeds are the devil!” to forget that seeds are actually quite nutritious. An all seed diet IS terrible. An added every now and then as a treat or a top dressing to the veggie? Quite helpful.

Regarding vet advice about pellets, they are technically correct. Many people who do fresh diet keep a routine 3-4 things they serve. It’s freah food but the lack of diversity means it’s quite easy to become vitamin deficient. This isn’t a problem if you make sure you are serving diversity in the diet. Also, to combat picking at the food, you chop it all up really small, run it through a food processor perhaps, so that everything is too call for them to pick out any one item.

Or you can add inducement. A lot of us use a bit of coconut or sustainably sourced red palm oil on a new item to make it more appealing.

 

[EllenD]

I wish I had seen this thread sooner...what a nightmare. This breeder should be called-out online as much as possible so that other people don't fall into the same horribly dangerous situation that you're stuck in now. I'm so sorry that this has happened to you and to your bird, I'll see if I can help you out as much as I can...

As a breeder, my main concern in what you are going through and what you are describing is that you are forgetting about how extremely important "Abundance Weaning" your baby is, and I don't think you quite understand what that term really means, as you keep talking about "cutting the formula" either in amount or number of feedings, and that is not how you Abundance-Wean a baby bird. And the reason this is so extremely important is because if you accidentally end-up starting to "Force-Wean" him, which is what you're starting to do, you are going to cause him serious neurological, behavioral, and psychological issues that are typically not correctable and end-up being life-long. So you need to sort of "Hit the Reset Button" and start over his Abundance Weaning process.

First of all, Neocare is I believe a Vetafarm product that is not typically recommended due to it's high fat content (unless a high-fat formula is needed, which it is not here), as well as it's massive amount of "fillers". Even Kaytee Hand-Feeding Formula is much more highly recommended than Neocare is. I have no experience using Neocare, only Roudybush and Kaytee Handfeeding Formulas, but I do know about the nutritional deficiencies that may result from feeding it, which can cause a lot of weaning issues like you describe...If a baby bird is not not getting the nutrition that it needs from it's formula, it's body will essentially become "starved", while the amount of formula they are eating is ample...And what usually happens in this situation is that the baby bird's body starts telling them that it is starved of the nutrition it needs, meaning vitamins, minerals, amino acids, enzymes, protein, etc., and the baby will usually start to gorge itself, which often results in vomiting. So this could very well be what is going on with your baby.

If your baby is nutritionally starved due to the Neocare, then not only will he want to gorge himself on the Neocare, but he's then also going to gorge himself on any solid foods you offer him, specifically solid foods that are highly nutritious, such as fresh veggies, fruits, pellets, etc. Oh, those pellets are also garbage, nothing but fillers, fat, sugar, etc. I am not familiar with weaning an Eclectus onto pellets, but I would assume that you wean an Eclectus onto whatever adult food you want them to eat forever...So are you planning on feeding your Eclectus a staple diet of pellets? If not, I'd ditch the pellets, as they are not helping the situation, and I'm not sure what the point of them is. You should be weaning him onto whatever adult diet you plan on feeding him permanently...

Anyway, what I believe is happening here is that your baby is nutritionally starved due to the Neocare, and as a result he is literally gorging himself on the Neocare, and then also again on the solid weaning foods that you're offering him, as his body is telling his brain that it needs nutrition that the Neocare isn't offering, but Spaz doesn't know that, so he is trying to gorge himself on literally anything that he can get to eat...And once his crop is full, it's full, and he's going to vomit if he keeps eating...And the issue here is obviously that even though he's eating so much formula and food that he's making himself vomit, he's still not getting the nutrition that he needs because the bulk of what he is eating is the Neocare formula, and it is not providing his body with the nutrition it needs.

****And the real issue this creates is with the Abundance-Weaning...You absolutely cannot simply cut the amount of formula he's getting and suddenly replace it with solid foods!!! Can't do it! You absolutely cannot just suddenly say "I'm going to cut a formula feeding or the amount of formula in each feeding", because that's you essentially Force-Weaning him out of nowhere, and this is going to result in some serious neurological and behavioral issues. And more importantly, IF YOU SUDDENLY CUT OUT A LOT OF THE FORMULA AND REPLACE IT WITH SOLID FOOD, YOU CAN CAUSE HIS GI TRACT TO FILL WITH GAS, BECOME OBSTRUCTED, ETC. BECAUSE IT'S NOT USED TO DIGESTING/PROCESSING SOLELY THOSE FOODS YET! Especially things like fresh veggies and fruit that contain high amounts of natural fiber or "ruffage", these can cause his GI Tract to completely fill with so much gas that his stomach can actually rupture... So that is definitely not the answer!

***At this point you need to "Hit the Reset Button", just as I mentioned above. I would slowly switch him over from the Neocare onto an adequate parrot hand-feeding formula, either Roudybush, Zupreem, or Kaytee...Avoid obviously Neocare, Nekton, Prettybird, Higgins, etc. as these are the ones where this happens most often. You need to slowly replace the Neocare with the new formula over the span of about a week, slowly mixing-in the new formula and reducing the Neocare, until you're no longer feeding any Neocare at all, and as I said, this process should be stretched out over about a week, so that his body can slowly adjust. Don't be surprised if you see some loose droppings, this is just due to the change in ingredients, and is normal.

During this process you need to be very careful about how much total food you are feeding him every day. And the formula is going to be most important during this process, not solid foods. So again, eliminate the pellets completely, and honestly I would even thing about only feeding him formula during this week, so that his body can adjust. What you should see start to happen during this week and then into the following week when he's finally off of the Neocare and on the new formula, is that his body is going to start getting adequate nutrition from the proper formula, and you should see him start to slow his eating and lower the amount of food he's eating, and the vomiting should stop.

During this time and from now on, you need to start feeling his crop while you're hand-feeding him the formula, and then right after. His crop should feel like a very large balloon, but should have a good amount of "give" to it. It should not at all feel tight or like it's going to burst, but you should rather be able to press in on it easily, but it shoudl be nice and large and round shaped. And at that point you cannot feed him any other foods until his crop is just about empty. His crop should just almost empty between formula feedings, leaving just a tiny bit of formula in his crop between daily feedings. The only time it should be fully emptying is overnight, so first thing in the morning it should be totally empty.

If you are feeding him 3 formula feedings, then you cannot feed him anything else between those feedings, his crop must be allowed to just about empty so he's ready for his next formula feeding. And then he should only be getting 1 or 2 solid food meals, so you need to get him on a strict, daily schedule, and then once you get this formula situation corrected and he stops vomiting, then you need to ALLOW HIM TO REDUCE HIS FORMULA AND/OR THE AMOUNT OF FORMULA FEEDINGS AND INCREASE THE AMOUNT OF SOLID FOODS HE'S EATING!!! YOU CANNOT DO THIS FOR HIM!!! What this means is that if you normally feed him a certain amount of formula per feeding, and then he starts only eating half of that amount of formula, and at that point his crop is still not full, then you can OFFER him some fresh veggies, he might eat them, he might not, but offer them, and only offer them if his crop is not full! Let him decide to reduce the formula and add the solid food, BUT IT'S STILL UP TO YOU TO MAKE SURE THAT YOU ARE CHECKING HIS CROP AND LIMITING HIS TOTAL FOOD AMOUNT BASED ON HIS CROP!

I think that once you get him off of the Neocare and onto an adequate hand-feeding formula that is providing his body with the nutrition that it needs, he's going to not only start eating much less food, but he'll stop vomiting, and he'll actually get back on-track with his Abundance-Weaning. But this is not ever going to happen if his body is continually "starved" of it's nutritional needs due to crappy hand-feeding formula...Oh, and stop those pellets as well. Again, I don't know what you want his permanent, adult daily diet to be, but whatever that is, that's what you need to be weaning him onto, and ONLY that.

Feel free to ask any and all questions you have, as this is not an easy process to take-on when you've never done it before. Let this be a huge lesson to anyone reading this that is thinking of bringing home an unweaned baby bird from an unscrupulous breeder, who is probably giving you a lower price on the bird if you finish weaning it...DON'T EVER, EVER BRING HOME A BABY BIRD THAT IS NOT FULLY WEANED! IF YOU HAVE TO FEED THE BABY ANY FORMULA AT ALL, THEN JUST WALK AWAY, NO MATTER HOW MUCH YOU WOULD BE SAVING ON THE PRICE OF THE BIRD IF YOU TAKE IT UNWEANED FROM THE BREEDER! Usually these babies die before they are ever weaned, for any number of reasons, the above being one of them...It's obviously just not worth the $100 or whatever it is you'll save by "finishing weaning" the baby bird...It's not that easy, as this thread should prove to anyone who doubts that it's difficult.

 

[imemi]

@EllenD

Thank you!

I am slowly switching his neocare to roudybush, it's been a very slow process as I'm trying to ensure he's not having a hard time adjusting. Don't worry I wasn't depriving him of his formula just was wondering as it was the formula he was regurgitating.

Today he wanted his breakfast formula one, I mixed his lunch one up and he was more interested in taking the spoon off me and dropping it off the table. I'll mix his dinner one up and see what he thinks. But I always offer it to him regardless.

His crop is always checked. My housemate is pretty good at that and Spaz is pretty good at letting us check. He's now eating the veggies even though he didn't eat the formula. But I will make sure he's full and then empties his crop properly before offering dinner, we should have scales by tonight too so I can ensure that his weight is on par with how he should be.

Knowing that it's most probably the neocare causing this, as well as the breeder's idea of "abundance weaning" (being to let him choose veggies before you've offered formula), has sort of eased my mind in a way. I've been doing everything as the breeder said but feeling like it may possibly be outdated advice in that regard (as they feed seed and dried fruit mostly to their adults.) The vet said neocare is "Fine" but I'm learning there's a lot of distinction between their version of fine and mine.

As for the pellets, I don't want him on them, but as it was the vets suggestion I wanted opinions. Yours has helped an awful lot in this decision. The vet said just to supplement what I'm already giving him with a small amount of pellets 2-3 times a week.

He's taking great joy in chucking my pencil around the table at the moment and coming up for scratches and to mess with my laptop.
I'm sorry if this is a bit garbled, my brain is processing everything.

 

[imemi]

Sounds alike you’re one of the rare few without serious “picky eater” challenges, Scott! Color me jealous

Don’t be afraid of a little seed every now and then. It’s easy, with the deafening roar of “seeds are the devil!” to forget that seeds are actually quite nutritious. An all seed diet IS terrible. An added every now and then as a treat or a top dressing to the veggie? Quite helpful.

Regarding vet advice about pellets, they are technically correct. Many people who do fresh diet keep a routine 3-4 things they serve. It’s freah food but the lack of diversity means it’s quite easy to become vitamin deficient. This isn’t a problem if you make sure you are serving diversity in the diet. Also, to combat picking at the food, you chop it all up really small, run it through a food processor perhaps, so that everything is too call for them to pick out any one item.

Or you can add inducement. A lot of us use a bit of coconut or sustainably sourced red palm oil on a new item to make it more appealing.

I totally missed this!

But yes I don't have any issue with him not eating stuff he will just pick his fruit out first and then decide he's hungry and eat the rest.

I switched to roudybush (which was nice and hard to find around here but I managed to get it through a mate.) He's still rejecting his feeds pretty routinely. He thinks he wants his morning one and will guts it down, regurgitate it because he MUST fly to the window immediately after eating (if he can't see the window he'll leave my room and go to the lounge) then go and pick at his chop.

I'm chopping small, I don't have a food processor but we've spoken about getting one to save me time. I have enough fun chopping 40kgs of meat products for the ferrets at a time. Adding in a varied chop for Spaz is taking me a little long. Having said that, we change it most days doing it this way so he has a very varied diet that covers all of his needs. Basically we get new fresh veggies for each meal (or each couple of meals for us humans) and get enough for Spaz, we also get the kids fruit to go to school with and he gets some of that too. I've been told frozen berries for summer will be a lovely thing to add too but considering the trouble we've had with frozen berries being contaminated with stuff...uh...I dunno.

We have a second check up with the vet booked but he has gained weight (I managed to weigh him on my tiny little scales I used to use for dried herbs!)