Sick budgie help!

[noodles123]

not too warm though!! I think upper 70s (Fahrenheit)...I could be wrong...but heat can also cause stress. Do not use any external heat source/heater/blow dryer....These get too hot and often contain deadly Teflon/ptfe/pfoa on the inner heating components....

 

[ChristinaTFSI]

Yes, don't worry I am not going to overheat her cage. Thanks for the advise!

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[AmyMyBlueFront]

Any info on your poor sick little Budgie?? I hope you got her to some sort of vet in time! I am praying for you little Budgie Bird!!



Jim

 

[ChristinaTFSI]

Any info on your poor sick little Budgie?? I hope you got her to some sort of vet in time! I am praying for you little Budgie Bird!!



Jim

Well, I called a vet and he told me to give her some sort of medicine (so I went to a pet store, bought it and gave it to my budgie) and tommorow I am going to visit him so that he can tell me exactly what is wrong with her.

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[EllenD]

Oh no, I hope that this vet isn't as bad as I think they are going to be...You should never give a bird any type of "medicine" that you can buy in a pet shop, that's the first problem because it's probably nothing that is going to help at all, and secondly you don't know what is wrong with her, so you shouldn't be giving her any "medicine" until they take cultures and know exactly what is wrong with her, as if you give her the wrong thing it can make her much worse...For example, let's say she has a fungal/yeast infection, and the medicine you're giving her is an antibiotic; antibiotics cause only the spread of fungal/yeast infections and make them much worse...Or if you're giving her an antibiotic that doesn't treat the bacteria that is causing her infection, then you're only giving her unnecessary antibiotics...Usually "Exotic's" Vets tell people to do these things, because they know nothing about Avian medicine at all...

What exactly is the stuff you bought at the pet store and are giving her? And please tell me that this Vet didn't tell you to give her some type of medication that you put in her drinking water???? That's a big no-no, as you don't have any control on how much she is getting at all, usually they don't drink enough water for it to make any difference at all, and even more importantly, as soon as you put anything in her water at all like an antibiotic, a vitamin drop, anything at all, it contaminates the drinking water and starts the immediate growth of bacteria and fungi, so it can actually make her much sicker than she already is...Any Avian Vet that knows what they are doing will do cultures, diagnose exactly what is wrong with her and what microbe is causing the problem, and then prescribe the exact medication that will treat that specific microbe...And ONLY give you medication that you give your bird right directly into their mouth with an oral syringe that contains the exact dosage for your bird based on her weight (or you can take that exact dose of oral medication and put the entire dose from the syringe into a tiny bit of food that your bird likes to eat, such as a bit of oatmeal, or into a small, tiny bit of fruit juice, like orange juice, that they will drink or eat all of so that they get the entire dose...It's no different than how we are tested for infections and illnesses, and then prescribed an exact dose of the correct medication...But Vets who do not have any extra training or education in Avian Medicine do things like this, and it always ends badly...But if this is the only vet you have, then you don't have a choice...

My best advice for tomorrow when you take your bird to see this vet is to make sure that you absolutely request that they do a Fecal Culture (take a fresh dropping from your bird the morning before her appointment, put it in a bag and put it in the fridge and take it with you), that's the minimum testing that this vet needs to do. So go prepared with the fecal sample, and if this vet tells you it's not necessary and just wants to prescribe her a medication without doing any tests, I would absolutely insist that they at the very least do the Fecal Culture...And they also HAVE TO take a scraping/sample of the stuff on her face and look at it under a microscope to determine what it is...If it is Scaly Face Mites, they should give her a single injection/shot of Ivermectin and that will clear it up...

 

[ChristinaTFSI]

Oh no, I hope that this vet isn't as bad as I think they are going to be...You should never give a bird any type of "medicine" that you can buy in a pet shop, that's the first problem because it's probably nothing that is going to help at all, and secondly you don't know what is wrong with her, so you shouldn't be giving her any "medicine" until they take cultures and know exactly what is wrong with her, as if you give her the wrong thing it can make her much worse...For example, let's say she has a fungal/yeast infection, and the medicine you're giving her is an antibiotic; antibiotics cause only the spread of fungal/yeast infections and make them much worse...Or if you're giving her an antibiotic that doesn't treat the bacteria that is causing her infection, then you're only giving her unnecessary antibiotics...Usually "Exotic's" Vets tell people to do these things, because they know nothing about Avian medicine at all...

What exactly is the stuff you bought at the pet store and are giving her? And please tell me that this Vet didn't tell you to give her some type of medication that you put in her drinking water???? That's a big no-no, as you don't have any control on how much she is getting at all, usually they don't drink enough water for it to make any difference at all, and even more importantly, as soon as you put anything in her water at all like an antibiotic, a vitamin drop, anything at all, it contaminates the drinking water and starts the immediate growth of bacteria and fungi, so it can actually make her much sicker than she already is...Any Avian Vet that knows what they are doing will do cultures, diagnose exactly what is wrong with her and what microbe is causing the problem, and then prescribe the exact medication that will treat that specific microbe...And ONLY give you medication that you give your bird right directly into their mouth with an oral syringe that contains the exact dosage for your bird based on her weight (or you can take that exact dose of oral medication and put the entire dose from the syringe into a tiny bit of food that your bird likes to eat, such as a bit of oatmeal, or into a small, tiny bit of fruit juice, like orange juice, that they will drink or eat all of so that they get the entire dose...It's no different than how we are tested for infections and illnesses, and then prescribed an exact dose of the correct medication...But Vets who do not have any extra training or education in Avian Medicine do things like this, and it always ends badly...But if this is the only vet you have, then you don't have a choice...

My best advice for tomorrow when you take your bird to see this vet is to make sure that you absolutely request that they do a Fecal Culture (take a fresh dropping from your bird the morning before her appointment, put it in a bag and put it in the fridge and take it with you), that's the minimum testing that this vet needs to do. So go prepared with the fecal sample, and if this vet tells you it's not necessary and just wants to prescribe her a medication without doing any tests, I would absolutely insist that they at the very least do the Fecal Culture...And they also HAVE TO take a scraping/sample of the stuff on her face and look at it under a microscope to determine what it is...If it is Scaly Face Mites, they should give her a single injection/shot of Ivermectin and that will clear it up...

Thank you for telling me all this information! First of all I want to mention that I told the vet her symptoms and he told me to give her some sort of medicine that suits most of the situations like her's. He also told me that it wouldn't make such a huge difference and it might not help at all, but it is okay since tomorrow I am going to visit him and he will tell me exactly what's wrong. I will make sure to ask him to do all the examinations that you have mentioned in your text! Thank you.

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[ChristinaTFSI]

Hey guys! I have good news! I went to the vet and he turned out to be a very good doctor. He explained to me what was wrong with my budgie and gave me medicine. He told me that she is going to be perfectly fine after about one month (including her beak). But before that I have to visit him again so that he will see how she will be doing. Thank you all for your advice !! **Sorry for my bad english, but as I said I am from Greece

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[AmyMyBlueFront]

Did he tell you what kind of sickness Budgie has? Can you tell us the name of the medicine he gave her???




Jim

 

[ChristinaTFSI]

Did he tell you what kind of sickness Budgie has? Can you tell us the name of the medicine he gave her???




Jim

Yes he explained that it was scally face. I told him that I have given her antibiotics for one week (they are called avoimycine) and this is why he gave me something called "asminine" and this is going to help with her breathing problem. Now when it comes to scally face he gave me something called "acaricine spot on" and I am supposed to drop in on her skin twice a week and then repeat the same process the next week (overall he told me that her breathing broblem is connected with the "scally face")

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[GaleriaGila]

YAYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY!

Not only did you care enough to reach out, but you LISTENED and ACTED!

You saved your bird.

I am so happy for you both!

 

[ChristinaTFSI]

YAYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY!

Not only did you care enough to reach out, but you LISTENED and ACTED!

You saved your bird.

I am so happy for you both!

Thank you! I hope that after one month my budgie will be healthy and happy again!

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[ChristinaTFSI]

Hello the forum! I have a problem (again!). I don't know if I have mentioned that, but I have two budgies. Now the other one (the one that I haven't talked about in this forum) threw up last night (seeds) and also he appears to have diarrhea. Do you think he got food poisoned? If so, what should I do ? (**I am sorry I am asking so many things, but I am very worried)



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[EllenD]

No, it's not food-poisoning, it's most likely some type of GI Tract infection or serious viral illness, and you need to get him to a Certified Avian Vet or Avian Specialist immediately...

Once they start vomiting-up their food and having runny-droppings they are pretty sick, and may have been sick for quite some time. So there is a sense of urgency here...

There's not much you can do at home for him, he needs to have an Avian Vet run a Fecal Culture (you'll need to collect a fresh dropping to take with you so they can culture it), and they may also do a Crop-Flush and then culture that too...One question though, does his breath smell at all "sour" or like "yeast/break"?

Hopefully he'll be able to get some water in and keep it down, but the Vet may also need to tube-feed him or if he still can't keep anything down they may give him subcutaneous fluid shots so he isn't dehydrated, but again, not much you can do at home...

 

[ChristinaTFSI]

No, it's not food-poisoning, it's most likely some type of GI Tract infection or serious viral illness, and you need to get him to a Certified Avian Vet or Avian Specialist immediately...

Once they start vomiting-up their food and having runny-droppings they are pretty sick, and may have been sick for quite some time. So there is a sense of urgency here...

There's not much you can do at home for him, he needs to have an Avian Vet run a Fecal Culture (you'll need to collect a fresh dropping to take with you so they can culture it), and they may also do a Crop-Flush and then culture that too...One question though, does his breath smell at all "sour" or like "yeast/break"?

Hopefully he'll be able to get some water in and keep it down, but the Vet may also need to tube-feed him or if he still can't keep anything down they may give him subcutaneous fluid shots so he isn't dehydrated, but again, not much you can do at home...

Thanks for responding. I can't understand what his breath smells like. But here is thing; since I got him (from a pet strore) his droppings were weird. I mean they were a little bit "wet" and sometimes green or even brown! BUT he is very active and he didn't display any symptoms of a sick bird untill now (the fact that he vomited). I do have at home medicine for "worms" (I don't know how they are called) that can live inside their stomach(because I needed it in the past). Should I give this to my bird? They won't hurt him anyway.

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[noodles123]

I would not give any medicine unless a CAV saw the bird and told you to (you don't know that the med won't hurt him...depends on what is wrong) --just get to vet ASAP.
Also- if one has it, it is quite possible that the other does (or will) too...so both will need to be checked.

 

[EllenD]

No, do not give your bird ANY medicine until you get a proper diagnosis, as you can end-up making your bird much, much worse by giving them the wrong medication for what they are suffering from...For instance, if your bird has a Fungal/Yeast infection in his GI Tract, and you give him any type of Antibiotic, you will not only do no good, you will actually make the Fungal/Yeast infection much worse because all Antibiotics kill-off the healthy, normal Bacterial in their GI Tracts, and this is the Bacteria that normally keeps Yeast from growing in their GI Tracts...

***Most medications for any type of parasites, including "worms" in-general, are actually poisons and are very toxic. What you are describing your bird having doesn't sound like "worms" to me, it may be a parasite of some kind, but probably not worms, as the common worms that birds get in their GI Tracts will be evident in their droppings, and in their vomit. It sounds much more like he has an infection of some kind in his GI Tract, probably fungal/yeast, but you have to be sure by having a Fecal Culture done, because again, if you give him the wrong medication it can make him worse or kill him ultimately.

****Something you need to be aware of is that all birds possess an innate, natural survival instinct to hide any and all outward signs/symptoms of illness and/or pain for as long as they possibly can, sometimes for months and months. This protects them and their flocks in the wild from being targeted by predators who look for "weak" or sick birds to grab...So the fact that your bird has had "loose" or "runny/watery" droppings since you've brought him home could be an indication that he has had a GI infection since you brought him home; as I said, they can hide all other signs/symptoms from you for months and months. So now he finally is sick enough that he can no longer hide all of the signs/symptoms, and he's now vomited-up his food...(Their droppings can normally be brown or green with the white portion, which is called the "urates", and is kind of like our urine, while the brown/green portion is the feces. However, their stools being constantly or continually runny/watery is not normal...If your bird is eating a lot of fresh veggies or fresh fruit every single day, then this can naturally cause his droppings to be watery/runny, however the Vomiting is not at all normal. Usually when a bird has been having watery/running droppings for quite a while and then they eventually start vomiting, it's an indication that they are suffering from a GI Tract infections of some kind, usually Fungal/Yeast, but could also be Bacterial. It starts in their lower intestinal tract, and can actually stay in their lower intestinal tract for quite a long time, especially if it's a Fungal/Yeast infection, because they have healthy Bacteria living normally inside their intestines that keeps Yeast/Fungi from growing there. So they can grow an amount of Yeast/Fungi inside of their lower intestines for one reason or another (has he ever taken ANY Antibiotic?), and then eventually the Fungi/Yeast grows enough to overpower the healthy bacteria, and eventually it then starts to spread throughout the rest of their Gastrointestinal Tract, eventually reaching their stomachs and then their Crops, and this is what starts causing the Vomiting...

****This is an indication that whatever infection he has is progressing and getting worse and worse, and he needs to have a Fecal Culture done ASAP to determine what is going on, as well as what medication is the correct one to treat exactly what is wrong. Birds are extremely sensitive to any and all medications, and due to a Budgie being such a small, lightweight bird, you can actually kill your bird very easily by just giving him medications such as Antibiotics and especially Anti-Parasitic/Anti-Worm medications (they are poisons) without knowing if it's the correct medication to give him. Not only will it do no good if it's the incorrect medication, but the meds in and of themselves can cause severe or lethal harm to your bird. So never medicate your bird at home without having an Avian Vet Specialist run the correct tests to diagnose what is wrong and what medication will be effective.

On that note, I'm not going to challenge what the Vet did for your female Budgie with the Scaly Face Mites, but what I will tell you to do is to keep an extremely close eye on his face and especially his breathing symptoms, and if you don't see marked-improvement in a week of those treatments, OR if you see the Scaly Face Mites getting worse, or if his breathing symptoms get worse (if his wheezing gets louder or more frequent, if he starts coughing, or if the patches on his face do not decrease or they spread to other areas such as on his beak or his cere) then you need to get a second opinion with another Avian Specialist, preferably...Or, take him back to the same Vet if that's the only option within a drivable-distance of you, because chances are that the medications he's on need to be changed...

I have never heard of an Avian Vet treating Scaly-Faced Mites with any other medication but Ivermectin, and certainly not with topical medications that are applied to his face multiple times a week...A single, one-time injection of Ivermectin is all it takes to completely eliminate all Scaly-Face Mite infestations will no relapses happening. All of these drugs that are used to treat Mites are poisons, and birds being so sensitive and small should not typically be given multiple doses of poisons, nor should they be put on the bird topically because you know that they are going to be preening themselves constantly and actually then ingesting the topical med, which is a no-no...Most importantly though is the fact that a single, one-time injection of Ivermectin will totally cure the Scaly-Face Mites 99.9% of the time, and is totally safe when given in the correct dosage, based on the bird's weight...There shouldn't be any reason to make the bird endure multiple topical treatments a week and extend the length of his discomfort from the mites...So I'm perplexed as to why the Vet didn't just give her an Ivermectin injection and be done with it...

I don't know if the Vet ran any tests at all on your female to ensure that she does not have a serious Upper-Respiratory Infection, but it doesn't sound like it, and that's scary. You cannot blame a bird's wheezing and URI symptoms on a case of Scaly-Face Mites, so please, watch your bird very carefully, and if you notice the Respiratory/breathing symptoms not improving at all or getting at all worse, then please take her back and demand that the Vet take do both a Fecal Culture and Respiratory Cultures/Sinus Cultures, because if your bird actually has a UR Infection that is totally separate from the Scaly Face Mites, which would be much more common, then she's not being treated for it and it could become much, much worse.

 

[ChristinaTFSI]

No, do not give your bird ANY medicine until you get a proper diagnosis, as you can end-up making your bird much, much worse by giving them the wrong medication for what they are suffering from...For instance, if your bird has a Fungal/Yeast infection in his GI Tract, and you give him any type of Antibiotic, you will not only do no good, you will actually make the Fungal/Yeast infection much worse because all Antibiotics kill-off the healthy, normal Bacterial in their GI Tracts, and this is the Bacteria that normally keeps Yeast from growing in their GI Tracts...

***Most medications for any type of parasites, including "worms" in-general, are actually poisons and are very toxic. What you are describing your bird having doesn't sound like "worms" to me, it may be a parasite of some kind, but probably not worms, as the common worms that birds get in their GI Tracts will be evident in their droppings, and in their vomit. It sounds much more like he has an infection of some kind in his GI Tract, probably fungal/yeast, but you have to be sure by having a Fecal Culture done, because again, if you give him the wrong medication it can make him worse or kill him ultimately.

****Something you need to be aware of is that all birds possess an innate, natural survival instinct to hide any and all outward signs/symptoms of illness and/or pain for as long as they possibly can, sometimes for months and months. This protects them and their flocks in the wild from being targeted by predators who look for "weak" or sick birds to grab...So the fact that your bird has had "loose" or "runny/watery" droppings since you've brought him home could be an indication that he has had a GI infection since you brought him home; as I said, they can hide all other signs/symptoms from you for months and months. So now he finally is sick enough that he can no longer hide all of the signs/symptoms, and he's now vomited-up his food...(Their droppings can normally be brown or green with the white portion, which is called the "urates", and is kind of like our urine, while the brown/green portion is the feces. However, their stools being constantly or continually runny/watery is not normal...If your bird is eating a lot of fresh veggies or fresh fruit every single day, then this can naturally cause his droppings to be watery/runny, however the Vomiting is not at all normal. Usually when a bird has been having watery/running droppings for quite a while and then they eventually start vomiting, it's an indication that they are suffering from a GI Tract infections of some kind, usually Fungal/Yeast, but could also be Bacterial. It starts in their lower intestinal tract, and can actually stay in their lower intestinal tract for quite a long time, especially if it's a Fungal/Yeast infection, because they have healthy Bacteria living normally inside their intestines that keeps Yeast/Fungi from growing there. So they can grow an amount of Yeast/Fungi inside of their lower intestines for one reason or another (has he ever taken ANY Antibiotic?), and then eventually the Fungi/Yeast grows enough to overpower the healthy bacteria, and eventually it then starts to spread throughout the rest of their Gastrointestinal Tract, eventually reaching their stomachs and then their Crops, and this is what starts causing the Vomiting...

****This is an indication that whatever infection he has is progressing and getting worse and worse, and he needs to have a Fecal Culture done ASAP to determine what is going on, as well as what medication is the correct one to treat exactly what is wrong. Birds are extremely sensitive to any and all medications, and due to a Budgie being such a small, lightweight bird, you can actually kill your bird very easily by just giving him medications such as Antibiotics and especially Anti-Parasitic/Anti-Worm medications (they are poisons) without knowing if it's the correct medication to give him. Not only will it do no good if it's the incorrect medication, but the meds in and of themselves can cause severe or lethal harm to your bird. So never medicate your bird at home without having an Avian Vet Specialist run the correct tests to diagnose what is wrong and what medication will be effective.

On that note, I'm not going to challenge what the Vet did for your female Budgie with the Scaly Face Mites, but what I will tell you to do is to keep an extremely close eye on his face and especially his breathing symptoms, and if you don't see marked-improvement in a week of those treatments, OR if you see the Scaly Face Mites getting worse, or if his breathing symptoms get worse (if his wheezing gets louder or more frequent, if he starts coughing, or if the patches on his face do not decrease or they spread to other areas such as on his beak or his cere) then you need to get a second opinion with another Avian Specialist, preferably...Or, take him back to the same Vet if that's the only option within a drivable-distance of you, because chances are that the medications he's on need to be changed...

I have never heard of an Avian Vet treating Scaly-Faced Mites with any other medication but Ivermectin, and certainly not with topical medications that are applied to his face multiple times a week...A single, one-time injection of Ivermectin is all it takes to completely eliminate all Scaly-Face Mite infestations will no relapses happening. All of these drugs that are used to treat Mites are poisons, and birds being so sensitive and small should not typically be given multiple doses of poisons, nor should they be put on the bird topically because you know that they are going to be preening themselves constantly and actually then ingesting the topical med, which is a no-no...Most importantly though is the fact that a single, one-time injection of Ivermectin will totally cure the Scaly-Face Mites 99.9% of the time, and is totally safe when given in the correct dosage, based on the bird's weight...There shouldn't be any reason to make the bird endure multiple topical treatments a week and extend the length of his discomfort from the mites...So I'm perplexed as to why the Vet didn't just give her an Ivermectin injection and be done with it...

I don't know if the Vet ran any tests at all on your female to ensure that she does not have a serious Upper-Respiratory Infection, but it doesn't sound like it, and that's scary. You cannot blame a bird's wheezing and URI symptoms on a case of Scaly-Face Mites, so please, watch your bird very carefully, and if you notice the Respiratory/breathing symptoms not improving at all or getting at all worse, then please take her back and demand that the Vet take do both a Fecal Culture and Respiratory Cultures/Sinus Cultures, because if your bird actually has a UR Infection that is totally separate from the Scaly Face Mites, which would be much more common, then she's not being treated for it and it could become much, much worse.

Thanks for responding. First of all I want to say that I have never given ANY antibiotic to the bird that vommited. Also I want to say that he threw up only once.


Here in Greece there isn't an injection for scally face. That's why he told me to put a drop of a medicine on her neck twice a week and then after a week repeate the same process. This is (I guess) as effective as the injection that you mentioned. By the way he did all the examinations that you said. Right now I don't see a huge difference in my female budgie's beak but I can't say that she is worse. I WILL take her to the vet again in 15 days so that he can check her again and tell me what to do.

Now when it comes to my male budgie I think he is healthy. The reason why I believe this is because he is very active and he doesn't vommit anymore (in total he vommited only once). The only thing that is strange about him is the fact the he is drinking quiet a lot of water. Do you think I should take him with my female budgie to the vet too?

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[noodles123]

Birds hide illness, so vomiting is definite a signal that something is wrong..UNLESS....it wasn't vomiting. What was he doing (and where were you/what were you doing) when he vomited?


I would get blood-work done on both (assuming your vet knows enough about birds to do it safely). Also, if she had mites, he may have them as well...

 

[ChristinaTFSI]

Birds hide illness, so vomiting is definite a signal that something is wrong..UNLESS....it wasn't vomiting. What was he doing (and where were you/what were you doing) when he vomited?


I would get blood-work done on both (assuming your vet knows enough about birds to do it safely). Also, if she had mites, he may have them as well...

When he vomited I was sleeping (it was night) and I woke up because of the noise he made. I walked closer to his cage and I saw him moving his head from side to side and basically I saw him throwing up seeds, that were not digested.


As for the mites the vet told me to give the medicine that I give to my female budgie to my male as well (since he probably has them too)

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[noodles123]

Thanks! That sounds like actual vomiting. I would get him checked.
Out of curiosity, did he vomit before or after you started giving him the mite medication?