Ugggg! Finley still biting...why...uggg worse than ever. Help!

[Sunnyclover]

I did as all of you suggested and gave Finn some time to chill out and collect himself for a couple of days and stopped any rough possibly sexual playing that I might rub his vent.Well guys, it has gotten even worse. At 1st I thought he was scared of me because when he bit I would hold his beak and say "no bite" and put him in the bathroom for a timeout and I thought I was traumatizing him or that maybe I hurt him once or something on accident so I stopped that kind of time out. After a good few days of observation I don't think he is scared of me because he wants badly to be with me and when he is on me he's acting so happily and rolling around on his back and up against my neck, cuddling and such. He also seems to want to step up all the time but will sometimes either lunge at me or bite and then immediately step up after I put my finger out a 2nd time. I am also noticing there are 2 kinds of biting, one is play biting and he makes a certain noise when he does it and so I have just started ignoring that one because he is very gentle and I know he'll out grow that and there isn't harm in it, I just tell him to be gentle and he does. Then there is the aggressive defensive biting, it can occur any number of times like if I ask him to step up off his cage top or from in his cage or if he is eating or to step off my shoulder. Sometimes he'll be on my shoulder and all of a sudden bite at my face for no reason. The weird part is that sometimes he is totally fine and will step up no problem and not bit at all. It kinda seems like he gets cranky or something and then just wants to bite. There are also times he does look scared of me and bites defensively and the poor little one just looks like he saw a ghost but then right afterwards he'll step up normal. He also will randomly bite me when I am giving him scratches even though he put his head down so I would give him scratches. I can't understand what is going on! Now when he bites I either just tell him "be gentle" if he only starts to bite and tell him "no bite" in a nicer calmer voice and touch his beak gently. This also seems to have no effect on him at all and definately ignoring his biting makes it worse because I tried that for a day and he bit me more than ever. Luckily at this stage his bites aren't terribly painful. I just can't for the life of me figure this one out, I have spend so much time and effort on this and I am racking my brain about what I could be doing to make him bite me like this. One thought I had is that I am pretty sure I am his mate in his mind because he calls for me and has in the past loved up my hand and regurgitated for me, he also longs to be with me and hops onto me when I am trying to give him a break if I walk anywhere near his cage and will fly off his tree stand and search the house for me and only me if I am trying to give him time to cool down and only rolls on his back for me ect. Maybe he is trying to establish dominance over me since he is only 5 months old and everything is still new to him? Also, Ollie is definitely the dominant one in their relationship so maybe he feels the need to be in charge of someone or something. Or maybe he is just scared and he doesn't trust me anymore? But what kind of bird rolls around on their back only for 1 person whom they don't even trust? Not a good defence imo. Or could it be that he is going through the earliest full on puberty ever at 5 months? Or maybe this is just his personality and he is just a nippy bird but didn't show his true colors until 3 months into him living with us because he was adjusting? If any of these are true what do I do next? I have no idea but I am starting to become scared of him, my silly little doofus that at one time wanted nothing more than to cuddle with me and be hand fed forever and ever...uggggg! WHY?!

 

[Carl_Power]

Ofcourse he likes you and isnt scared or he wouldnt be on you at all. Sometimes Xander wont come to me. Ive learned if he is on his boing at the top for example then thats his chill time and i leave him be. I know this because he touches my finger with his beak, its his warning i guess. They wont want to step up all the time ect. We just have to learn their individual boundries. See if you notice a pattern, like if your picking him up when he is doing a certain thing and then he is biting you hard. You can learn when to leave him be. I always give Xander the option to step up.

The gentle nibbling is him preening you. Its what birds do to their mates, they want us to look as good as them plus he loves being on you so your definatly developing a really strong bond. If he lunges at you then just leave him and walk away. He is most likely happy as he is for a moment x

 

[T00tsyd]

Is it possible that you might have forgotten what a young bird is like? I seem to remember that when Syd was about that age I got really fed up with him biting. I resorted to wearing a scarf to cover my ears and gloves for a while and only stepped him up on a stick. But here we are at 13 months and all that behaviour had disappeared and I'm waiting for the next set of behaviours to worry about.

What is it they say? The best bite is no bite? So perhaps set yourself up that he can't bite you, and maybe take time to reassess his moods so you see the warnings.

 

[GaleriaGila]

I will just wander through some of my thoughts. I may have shared them before, butttt...

I have had some success with using the "earthquake" technique for biting. When he bites, give your hand a swift shake... it should make him let go. The idea... every time he bites, a mysterious earthquake shakes him up. Some people feel this is mean and/or engenders lack of trust. The same can work for clothes biting... give your shoulder a shake, or jump! For me, it has helped.
I have reduced biting to almost zero over the decades. And a lot of that has involved giving up on a lot of my desires/expectations. After years of battle, I surrendered. I don't do stuff that gets me bitten. I NEVER do stuff that makes him mad... I don't touch others when he's out; I rarely try to get him to step up onto my hand first. Hand-held perch first, then hand. In some ways, I swallow my disappointment at having such a little monster for a pet, but he is what he is. I ALWAYS wear my hair down when he's on my shoulder, so all he can bite is hair. Really, I don't involve hands much... he doesn't like them. He seems to think the real ME is my head, perched on a weird moveable tree with questionable appendages.

Since he's fully flighted, the ONLY way I get him into the cage is still to toss a chile pepper in and he flaps in after it. So food reward is a necessity for me. Time-out doesn't exist on Planet Rickeybird. He's too fast.
I know you will continue to listen to and try all the good advice you'll get here, and there is PLENTY!!! Don't surrender until you know you've done your best. Then just accept and love whatever/whoever your bird turns out to be. I find no shame in accepting the fact that some birds are just difficult pets.

I'm so sorry for your troubles. Maybe it WILL ease up or go away with maturity.
The last time the Rb bit my ear (I forgot to put my hair down!) I just wanted to cry... probably did, a bit, but I try to let love and acceptance trump shame and frustration.



Hang in there!

 

[Sunnyclover]

Thanks for the input from you guys. You have put my heart and mind at ease and reminded me he is young and young ones test boundaries and don't always behave and may not always want to step up. For me with Ollie I have been spoiled, he is such a smart and intuitive bird andeven if he's eating his favorite treat he'll drop it and step up onto a flaming valcano if I ask him to. Today was better...Finn only really bit me once which is better than the 15 times yesterday. My husband is home so I can't help but wonder if that has anything to do with it because when we 1st got him my husband was not working and now he is. Finley clearly favors me even if my husband is around so I'm not sure what the deal is. Maybe he's just more moody than Ollie (my angel) and that's fair enough I just have to figure that little green demon out. Darn if he doesn't melt my heart even if he's a little beaky sometimes.

 

[YUMgrinder]

Cheddar does the "just saw a ghost" thing with me sometimes too! I go to pick him up and he stands straight up and holds his head back and SHRIEKS. then he's fine. It's like I startled him and he has to gather himself lol. I don't think by holding his beak and time out is making him scared of you, I've done the bite training with cheddar and it was successful right from the get go, When any of my birds bite me I show my displeasure with a beak hold and firm "no biting" and they seem to understand. I don't have to do it often at all though. It's always perplexing when they just bite out of nowhere especially when you thought everything is fine. makes you wonder what they are thinking, are they just cranky like people get sometimes or is it part of their personality or maybe an unknown condition that is prompting them to do it? Maybe he isn't getting the jist of what you are trying to tell him, be more firm about it, and react in a way he doesn't want you to when he is clearly biting too hard. Subject him to more clear timeouts? good luck

 

[Carl_Power]

Thats a healthy way to look at it Sunnclover, very parent like. Xander has come out of his phase. Ive learned some days he might just be a bit tired or even peed off lol. They are so moody. If he is grumpy ill put him to bed earlier. We are not parrot owners but parrot co-existers i think. Im still learning about my bird when we go through things. Finlay really must love you. Laying down to play, cuddles, calling you ect. Your in a great position. I think i am too and i know there will be the odd day when Xander will be naughty or be loud or a little sh@t but thats only 10% of the time. Thats just who he is and i accept that. Your doing great x

 

[Sunnyclover]

Thanks guys! So I'm trying to rule out hight dominance so I took down his highest perches which were on his cage play top. It's not just a flat space where I've put a few toys. We just did that 30 mins go so we'll see if that helps. I did notice him getting a bit of an attitude up there. This might bring it down a peg or 2. This morning was a really good morning with him...we played and played with no bites. Then afternoon hit and he started his biting again a bit when he was placed on his cage top. We'll see.

 

[T00tsyd]

Is he tired after lunch? Syd always seems to have a quiet hour from about 1.30 - 2.30pm. If he is out he tends to snuggle round my neck and feels as though he is snoozing. I usual try to make sure he has cage time then so he can rest properly. If he is tired he tends to be much more grumpy.

When he was very young he used to fight sleep until I realised and started treating him like any baby animal and make sure he had rest time. He used to get really nippy just from being over tired I decided.

 

[Sunnyclover]

Unfortunately, it happens in the morning usually and at lunch and at night so I don't think it's because he's tired.

 

[Sunnyclover]

Uggg so we had a few mostly good days where I could tell why Finley was trying to bit me (didn't want to be interrupted, tantrum, startled) bit today he's just gone off the rails. No idea what happened to him, I did have to repremand him a bunch of times in a row and so I think now he's just unconsolable. I'm just going to go hands (mostly) off for the rest of the day. Is that the right move?

 

[LordTriggs]

I'd say so, like a child sometimes the best option is to let them throw their tantrum and not bother. Like they say no attention is a better reaction than negative attention

 

[Sunnyclover]

Right. I just moved him from the tree to his cage first with a bite atemp so I put him back in the tree and then I tried a few minutes later and moved him a second time and gave him a treat. I'm trying to give some positive reenforcement too. I'm hoping this is just a toddler like phase "fingers crossed".