Umbrella Too- "Bables" ?

[427HISS]

My wife and I are wanting to get a Too or Grey. I have a thread in the Grey forum.

http://www.parrotforums.com/congo-timneh-greys/15676-wanting-african-grey-i-think.html

I thought that after this discussion, the Grey may be the choice for us until I spoke with the breeder below, so I'm not sure again. So to be fair, I would like some of your advice and thoughts on this particular Too.

I just spoke to Sue Zimmerman, owner of "Zimmerman Pets" in Sioux City Iowa, about 2 hrs. from me. She was very nice and had a conversation between the Grey and Too's. She has a rescue Umbrella Too from a divorce couple. Says "Babbles" is 6 years old, loves everyone, dances, speaks etc., but is not,.... a screamer. She did pluck out some feathers from the stress, but is growing them back and no more plucking.

We plan one visiting them late next week, depending on how I feel after surgery on Wed. She will be sending me a short video, photo's and information about her.


Website-
http://www.zimmermanpets.com/index.html

Thank you,
Kevin

 

[MikeyTN]

IF its going to be your first time bird, I would NEVER suggest an Umbrella Cockatoo! Unless you understand birds well. Very emotional birds that can be quite dangerous if you don't know what your doing. Plus they can develop a lot of problems if not trained well.

 

[Safira]

I agree with Mikey. Cockatoos in general are not good 1st parrots and Umbrellas can be some of the worst. I knew 1 that bit the toe off 2 different birds and would suddenly bite his handlers for no reason whatsoever.

 

[427HISS]

Damn, not a good thing.

 

[Mare Miller]

An umbrella was and still is my first time large parrot. We are going on four years together and I must say, the first two were pretty rocky. They are super intelligent, have lots of needs, can be jealous of your mate, are very loyal, have personality plus! They have a dust about them that makes them feel super soft when running your hands down their feathers but can flare up allergies. Their voice can be VERY loud or very soft, depending on what he's feeling at the time. Oh, and if you have a wood house, beware! If I would have known what I was getting into when my friend needed help, I probably would have said no. But now that I know, I'm happy I said yes.

 

[lene1949]

Have a read of mytoos.com..

 

[MikeyTN]

Java's previous owner had a hard time with him for two years as well. And she had him for 6 years. She's very sad to re-home Java, but she said she's glad he's with me instead of anyone else cause we've become really good friends, but the sad part is the reason why she give up Java was for her husband's benefit because he was diagnosed with Pulmonary Fibrosis. And he just told her he wanted a divorce this past Monday. Which is very sad...

I guess over all you have to be tough with them! Java was trying to run over me with doing what he wants and bits really hard and draw blood every time he bites. First time I let him go but I told him I was not happy about it and he was being put up. Second time I put him back and ignored him then he got really vicious with the attacks. Then I got onto him and made him stop and I had a good talk with him. He's MUCH nicer to my partner now and no more attacks towards me. A total cuddle bug right now. Of course I keep his previous momma updated on how he's doing and all. And she told me that's how he is and I think Java runs over them often cause he does what he wants. I noticed the stuffs he's destroyed in their house. NOT in my house he's not!!!!

 

[mnkeastman]

Have a read of mytoos.com..

I read this entire site and from that and the advice given to me on this forum decided that a 'Too was not the best choice for me or the bird especially it being my first.

I still plan to have one eventually, it is the Goffin that I am so attracted to but it will be later on when I have more parrot exp so it will be successful.

Good luck whatever you decide

 

[427HISS]

This is such a hard decision !

The Too's are so beautiful in a "pretty" way, the Grey is "handsome"

I love the crazy, fun & funny personality of the Too. The Grey is more mellow, quieter, speaks softer, not as loud in comparison, a lot of people say their more intelligent and learns more words. So, I don't see a problem with having a Grey,...... at all.

Sounds like the Too needs more personal attention to keep occupied, where the Grey can entertain himself if needed.

It's all the potential problems with the Too, but has the look and comic personality, that makes it such a hard decision between the two birds.

If I way the odd's, the Grey makes more sence for us, it's just getting over the fun personality of the Too. I thought this would be easy,...NOT.

HELP !!! lol
Kevin

 

[Molcan2]

If you take in a re-home Too keep in mind a few things:

If they say it 'used' to pluck but no longer does, this means that the bird has settled where it currently is. This means that when it comes to your house more than likely it will resume plucking behavior for possibly up to a year or two (also don't be fooled, once a plucker or shredder they are for LIFE - its like an addict there will always be relapses).

If they say that its not a screamer, this means that in an environment that the bird is comfortable in it wont scream. Let me tell you what this means. A re-home Too can take up to a year, possibly two years until it settles into your home. This is where the bird that 'never' screams usually screams its head off.

This means for a year or two you will have to deal with screaming and plucking behavior. Toos take longer to transition into a new home than other birds. If you do take in a re-homed Too, you need to make a promise to the bird that you will keep it for 1 full year before deciding whether its going to work or not. Anything less than that is unrealistic. This means that no matter how hard the transition is, you HAVE to be committed for 1 full year. Picture yourself ending up with the worst Too possible because that is what can happen for the first year or two. Its almost like an initiation process, if you can hang on to your sanity for a year or two then you gain acceptance and a wonderful bird. LET ME TELL YOU, IT CAN BE A VERY DIFFICULT YEAR OR TWO. I re iterate a year or two because sooooo many people expect the bird to behave in their home the way it behaved in the previous place the bird was. Also for the first year or two, this is where you typically see the worst behavior a Too has: screaming, lashing out (lounging, biting, etc.), pushy (their trying to see what they can get away with) etc.

Keep in mind that large parrots are NOTHING like dogs. I have trained in the past and currently German Shorthaired Pointers, they are not the easiest breed to train BUT it is nothing like a parrot. Parrots and dogs are completely different. Parrots are sooo extremely intelligent, you cant just tell them what to do, you ask them and then respect what they WANT to do as well. They are like having a three year old for life. Emphasis on the life part, they live for like 80 years.

There is always exceptions and it may very well never scream or pluck again BUT this is not the norm so I just want to prepare you for what you more than likely will be getting into.

 

[Molcan2]

This is such a hard decision !


Sounds like the Too needs more personal attention to keep occupied, where the Grey can entertain himself if needed.


HELP !!! lol
Kevin

Its a misconception that the Too needs more personal attention than any other parrot. A Too feels entitled to more, there for asks for more and demands more (by screaming). People who give into a Toos every demand say that they require more attention. Toos DONT need more, if you give them more than any other bird you will spoil them (you dont want to see a spoiled Too). You have to have a structured environment and strict rules on how much attention you are going to give everyday and then provide the right environment that encourages independent behavior.

 

[Safira]

I think it's excellent that you're doing your research and getting opinions on the bird. Both cockatoo's and African grey's have their pros and cons. You should NEVER, EVER, get a parrot because it's "Cute" and a "Clown" or "Talks." That could be their personality for 10% of the day, while the other 90% they are aggressive, needy, messy, and loud.

It's like picking out a puppy because it's adorable, then finding out it barks all night, pees in the house no matter what you do, and rips up everything you own (except 100 times worse, because birds are so much smarter.)

Parrots do not make good pets for most people, period, and I applaud you for taking the time to do some research. I know how hard it is to 'want' something and not go get it immediatly.

If you really want to make the right decision, find a rescue and go volunteer for a few hours. Then you'll really see what it's like and will get plenty of chances to interact with a Too and maybe a grey. You may even find a bird that you adore and be able to offer it a perminant home. Who knows, it might even be a completely different species then what you were originally after.

 

[427HISS]

I do have patience, but I don't know about personality and mental problems with the Too. Would it be much better, getting one after weening,.... baby, and have it as his first & only home ?

Would that aid in his mental status, plucking stress, learning bad habits like scramming, biting, tantrums, etc,. or is that just part of being a Too ?

I guess these two questions and answers will be the most important in our decision.

(I'm trying to attach a video sent to me via email by the owner, but don't know if it'll work) ?

 

[427HISS]

Thank you, I appreciate your kind words. I always,....research everything !(my wife and sister will never go with me shopping at a electronics store again) lol

I do the same with all our pets (dogs & cats) as all people and family's are different. Some dogs require a lot of exercise and attention, where as others don't. Most people should not,....have pets, especially dogs. Like you said, "oh he's so cute, I gotta have him". Well, once they find out what it takes to train & handle one, they just get rid of it. I HATE,...those people. Like a guy buying a little cute puppy, just to "land chicks" lol

That's why there's so,... many animals at the shelters. It's very sad.
Do we get rid of children because we didn't think it would be so hard and is not as much fun ? No, so why do people do it with pets, because animals are just animals ? No, it's a commitment from the beginning !

I try to make decisions based on fact and research, rather than letting my emotions get the best of me. Just because it "sounds or looks good", doesn't mean it is !

"Stupid people shouldn't breed" lol :58:

 

[HalfInsane]

Don't look solely into the positives of a species of bird; look in to the negative. I think it's a similar approach you might take to buying a car (I know, not the best analogy). If you're looking into a certain model of car, sure you're going to want to know what the perks are, what is reliable, etc. But, chances are, you'll spend more time reading up on what can go wrong and the specific maintenance that certain vehicle requires.

I'd also recommend investing in some books. Preferably ones focusing on behavior, and, of course, on greys and 'toos specifically. The internet is a great source of information, absolutely, but a book written by someone with years of experience, that is consistent throughout, and peer reviewed, is still a far more reliable, succinct, piece of writing.

I do have patience, but I don't know about personality and mental problems with the Too. Would it be much better, getting one after weening,.... baby, and have it as his first & only home ?

Would that aid in his mental status, plucking stress, learning bad habits like scramming, biting, tantrums, etc,. or is that just part of being a Too ?

I guess these two questions and answers will be the most important in our decision.

(I'm trying to attach a video sent to me via email by the owner, but don't know if it'll work) ?

Honestly, behavioral/emotional problems can crop up at any age in a 'too, or any bird, really. Just like humans, there isn't one age where you can, say, become depressed. Yes, it more common to arise in the teenage years (like parrots), but it is not limited to that age. I can't speak from experience but I'd actually guess that, apart from the trauma of switching homes, an older 'too (6 years and over) that has thus far proven to be stable might even be better than a young bird.

I think, overall, a grey is the better choice. Absolutely, they are complex birds with distinct personalities, but they lack the intensity of the average 'too. 'Toos are the most common bird to be found in rescues, and in abusive, neglectful situations. There is a reason for this; not everyone can live with a 'too. Heck, not everyone can live with a parrot. I myself think 'toos are gorgeous, fascinating, intelligent birds. That being said, I don't think I'll ever get one. I applaud those who can live with them but I don't think I'm that person.

 

[MikeyTN]

If you train toos properly, they're really good birds to have around. Just like Molcan2 says, you don't have to be glued to them 24/7. Yes any bird at any age can develop issues, but a too is more likely to be the one cause most people don't know how to deal with them! That's why the bird knowledge is needed. Plus unconditional love no matter what! Dont rehome when you encounter a issue, only do so when you have no other choice. I see my animals as my children as I will never have any human children of my own, they are my kids!!! I do whatever I need to do to provide for them. My life insurance policy is left for my animals, not relatives! When I say unconditional love, it means to cleanup after them daily, day and night, if they do get sick or old. I took care of my sick dog for over a year when he was having diarrhea on a daily basis, multiple times per day. I work 12hr shift then clean when I get home. He had to be kept separately from the other animals cause he was contagious for about 6 months but he doesn't understand why. I take him out on a leash to do his business rain, shine, cold, hot whatever. Cause he couldn't do it around my other dogs. Because of his parasite, he still gets sick even after ridding it after 6 months. So we did it for over a year. That's unconditional love!!! If you can't do it, a cockatoo is not for you, animals period isn't for you! That's how I feel!

 

[427HISS]

Agree to all, and the information in my last post. We had a cat that was diabetic, like I am, and it takes dedication and love to help him. He finally passed away at age 11, which for his health was a long life. So yes, we're are dedicated pet lovers as you are as everyone should be. You have done a great job as well !

 

[MissyMe83]

I don't have any personal experience with Too's but I could tell you about my friend & co-worker's experience. First let me say that she is a nice lady and takes excellent care of her animals. Meaning that she is not one to just give up on them, because of a little extra work....
She had a Too for several years, but during those years the Too bonded to her in such an extreme way that she could not be in the same room as the Too without giving it all of her attention. If she left the room it would cry out and scream relentlessly until she came back to the room. She could not make a phone call without the Too trying to attack the phone. She couldn't be close to anyone else without the Too trying to attack that person. Basically, if she could not devote 100% of her time and attention to the Too, it was miserable and acted out accordingly. It wasn't a good situation for my friend or the Too.

I personally don't think they are the right bird for most....I mean, unless you live alone and want to devote yourself to your pet...I understand that this is not ALL cases, but most of the stories (98%) that I have heard were not the best situations.

I would go with a Grey before I would step into the responsibility of a Too.

 

[Mare Miller]

The only cure I found for mine was free-flight. I truly believe that umbrella cockatoos are not meant to live in a cage or even a house! They're pretty wild at heart, although Amigo comes in for sustenance, food, water, cuddles then bed-time...he's got such a free spirit that I find it hard to contain.

 

[MikeyTN]

I don't have any personal experience with Too's but I could tell you about my friend & co-worker's experience. First let me say that she is a nice lady and takes excellent care of her animals. Meaning that she is not one to just give up on them, because of a little extra work....
She had a Too for several years, but during those years the Too bonded to her in such an extreme way that she could not be in the same room as the Too without giving it all of her attention. If she left the room it would cry out and scream relentlessly until she came back to the room. She could not make a phone call without the Too trying to attack the phone. She couldn't be close to anyone else without the Too trying to attack that person. Basically, if she could not devote 100% of her time and attention to the Too, it was miserable and acted out accordingly. It wasn't a good situation for my friend or the Too.

I personally don't think they are the right bird for most....I mean, unless you live alone and want to devote yourself to your pet...I understand that this is not ALL cases, but most of the stories (98%) that I have heard were not the best situations.

I would go with a Grey before I would step into the responsibility of a Too.

She most likely give her bird way too much attention and let her bird run her life. They will do that if you give them the opportunity. Their sweetness can be deceiving!!! They need to learn to spend time to play on their own without being glued to you.