Urgent help about lovebirds' baby

[Arash]

I have a pair of lutino peach faced lovebid(I know having pair of red eyes bird is not a good idia but on that time I didn't know and I bought them) . they are about 10 months old. female layed 5 eggs and 2 baby survived. now babies are 25 and 23 days old.The one who is younger 3 times wounded and seriusly I don't know what is the resone I guess 2 resones could be possible 1)older baby hit him. 2)male and female always fight each other even in nest box (male always want to have s.. with female and female doesn't alow him) and maybe they step on chicks when they were fighting and their nails is to long even sometimes when they are on my hand they scrach my skin by their nails. but I think first baby hit on second baby is more probable because all 3 times second baby wounded. now this time baby is badly damaged his/her blood is every where in nest box on their parrent fether on his/her brother. last two time I put some corn flour on his/her skin and it healed but this time it's in very bad condition I seperate him/her from their parrent and I bought some parrots baby food. but hand feeding baby love birds is really difficault job he is always refusing my syring even when I take his head he will not open his mount. I have some question about this issue:

1) after a few times trying is baby become comfortable with syring?
2) is that a good idia that I seperate him in this a very bad condition?
3)if any one knows how many times a day I should hand feed him please tell me he is 23 days.
4) on Tuesday I should go to an other city for 3 days and here in this city I don't have any one to help me about this issue is that ok I put him back to his parrent on Tuesday I mean my question is after few days hand feeding and seperate him from his parrent then when he heal is his parrent accept him again?
5) and if somebody else have any suggestion please tell me it could be very helpful.

 

[SailBoat]

I am not an expert with very young birds. That said, I would separate them. With hope, one of the Lovebird members will provide you more detailed information.

 

[Loko]

The male may kill the babies if not seperated. That baby needs to see an avian vet.

 

[Arash]

thanks guys.
I put baby back into the cage ( at the bottom of the cage on a soft and suitable plate to be seperate from his/her brother/sister) to parrents feed him/her but male lovebirds came and start to bit his/her skin!
then I seperated male lovebird but after 1 hour I saw female lovebird was bitting him/her! I put male back into the cage and take baby out.
I think his/her parrent does not want such a bloody unhealthy chick.

 

[Terry57]

Do you have an avian vet near you? Or perhaps a breeder you could contact so you can learn how to properly handfeed?
Please don't put the baby back into the cage, he will have to be fed by you until he is weaned.

Here is a link with some handfeeding instructions that may help for now:
handfeeding

 

[Arash]

yes I think I should find an avian vet.
thanks the link was really helpful.

 

[Scott]

I hope you can locate an avian vet to help with your injured baby! Found this link, not sure if helpful: http://www.tehranpet.com/WebForm27.aspx

If you are not able to locate a vet, the wound needs to be cleaned to prevent infection. This thread may be of help, starting at post number 15:
http://www.parrotforums.com/general-health-care/65921-urgent-help-needed-2.html

Good luck, and please keep us updated!

 

[Arash]

Thanks the link for that thread was helpful.
every thing on that neighborhood is pricey, tomorrow I will take him/her to an avian vet in down town.

 

[SilverSage]

Those injuries were not caused by accident, the parents are attacking deliberately and if you put him back he will likely be killed. He needs to see an avian vet IMMEDIATELY. Please take steps to prevent these birds from mating again. Also, be sure you read up on how to keep the baby warm enough (or he won't be able to digest his food and will die) how warm to have the food, etc. however, with a baby of that age you may need. To have your vet teach you how to tube feed your baby as he may be too old to accept the syringe. Please be careful to prevent this from happening again in the future. I will attach a link below on how to control the hormones of your pair.

http://www.silversageaviaries.com/handlinghormones/


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[Arash]

thanks your site is really helpful.
Yes after they raise their first chick I will take the nest box out and I will not not allow them to mate for couple of months

 

[SilverSage]

I would strongly discourage you from allowing this pair to mate again EVER. You already know that it is unwise to breed Ino to Ino, you already know this pair has violent tendencies, is there a specific reason you feel it is necessary to breed them when you know doing so puts the young at risk?


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[EllenD]

Stop putting that baby back in with other birds! It needs an avian vet immediately, it's going to get a horrible infection and die, and in a ton of pain! Keep him separate from the rest of the birds, he's injured badly and they are going to keep trying to kill him, that's what they do, kill any flock member that is weak and may bring them down. So just keep him away from all other birds and hand feed him formula.

Please get that baby to an avian vet immediately, he's in pain and is going to become septic.

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[Arash]

Yes you are right.

 

[Arash]

wow!!!
really I don't care about breeding birds I just bought 2 pairs of lovebirds (I didn't know their gender I bought them when they were too young) and for helping them to be happy just put nest box inside their cage!! (I think most of people do that!
last time female layed eggs I put them out and take the box out but female was really look upset then I add nest box again and this is it's resault and the reason that 3 of their baby lost beacause there was crack on all of 3 other eggs!

 

[SilverSage]

Let's all stay calm. Instead of accusations, let's focus on support and education.

Yes, many people do provide nest boxes for their birds, however it is best not to provide it as it leads to more frustration and suffering than would otherwise be experienced. Yes, the birds will be upset when you take it out, but human children get upset when you prevent them from eating lots of candy. Both things are things that are enjoyable but destructive. Just be strong, and stick to your position, and your birds will be happier in the end.


Many of us have started our lives with birds without the information to know if we are helping or hurting. Hopefully this learning experience will be the last of this type and hopefully we can all support and encourage the OP as they learn.


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[Kentuckienne]

One of the problems is that birds do things for a reason. They don't always do what we want them to do, and it does no good to hope that they will change just because we want them to change. It can be hard to understand why parent birds would do something like this. Shouldn't all parent birds naturally love and protect their chicks? But as you know, not even all humans are kind to their offspring, and birds can be much like humans.

In the wild, a sick bird is a danger to the flock. A sick bird might transmit its illness to the others. If it flies poorly or acts odd, it might attract the attention of predators who will catch any bird in the flock they can, not just the sick one. For this reason sick birds do their best to conceal the fact from the others - they know instinctively that losing the flock, being left behind, means death.

It is difficult to say why the parents started picking on the one baby. Maybe it was injured by the other baby, or stepped on accidentally. For some reason, when the parents saw the injured baby they decided to get rid of it. This can be necessary in the wild, because the other baby could become ill. In the wild it is difficult to raise chicks - so much food to bring and so much energy to spend on care - so tending to a sick chick could take enough food and time away from the healthy one so that both die. Or, perhaps there is something not right mentally with the parents. They both have a harmful mutation, and perhaps there are invisible problems that make them...well, let's say insane for lack of a better word, or at least unfit to be parents.

It will do no good to keep putting the injured baby back with them in the hope that they will be good parents all if a sudden. No, they have decided that this chick should die, and it doesn't matter what anyone else thinks. It presents you with a difficult problem.

The only way for the chick to have any chance is if you can do two things. One, the wound must be cleaned and protected and disinfected, and it still might not heal properly. A vet could do the best job at this. If there is no possibility to get to a vet, you can try to flush the wound with clean water for a long time to try to wash away dirt and germs. Many doctors now say not to use peroxide, as it damages healthy tissue. An antibiotic ointment might help prevent infection. There are some "artificial skin" products that form a seal over wounds to protect them - but usually these have some solvent or alcohol and hurt like crazy when you apply them.

Second, for the bird to live you must feed him, and as you have learned this isn't easy. The food must be correct, such as baby parrot formula, and it must be not too hot or not too cold. Too hot and it can burn an actual hole in the tender crop, or cause it to form a sore or wound. Too cold, and the food can congeal in the crop like cement so that no food at all makes it into the digestive system and the bird starves. The bird may refuse to eat from an unfamiliar device. Even with th correct food and technique, it takes a lot of time. Babies must eat every few hours, and they must be kept warm. So you see it is a daunting task, to try to save this little life.

And even if you do save him, h might not be a healthy bird because his parents have genetic problems. He should never be allowed to reproduce and pass along bad genes. It is not a good prospect. I hope you can find a vet to help you, because the baby is in a lot of pain. Birds are very sensitive, and that is a big wound, and it probably hurts. A vet migh be able to give the bird some medicine to help with the pain. Sadly, and I sorrow to say this, the baby may have such a hard time ahead of it that it would be kinder to stop the suffering instead of dragging it out. A vet could advise you on the baby's chances, and perhaps there is a positive outcome that medical help could bring. All you can do now is to think as hard as you can about what can be done, with compassion and all the wisdom in your heart, and do what seems right and best to you. That is all any of us can do.

It may be too late to help this little baby, but you can take some steps to prevent this from happening again. The parents will probably never be good parents, and if they have more chicks the same thing may happen again, and both you and the future chicks will sorrow over it. Plus, the parents have bad genetics that should not be passed on. You can find information here, I am not a bird breeder so can't really advise, but probably the males and females should be kept in separate cages from now on. That is probably the only way to keep them both and to prevent more chicks.

Many people have birds that lay eggs and raise chicks without problems, but you have been very unlucky. There is a lot to learn in a very short span of time, and it might not be enough to save the baby. I'm very sorry. Do the best you can, ak for advice if you are not sure, and do your best to prevent it from happening again. That's all anyone can do. I hope things will work out. Thank you for caring enough about the baby to come ask a bunch of strangers for advice, and don't stop loving the wonderful feathered beings in the cage.

 

[Flboy]

wow!!!
really I don't care about breeding birds I just bought 2 pairs of lovebirds (I didn't know their gender I bought them when they were too young) and for helping them to be happy just put nest box inside their cage!! (I think most of people do that!
last time female layed eggs I put them out and take the box out but female was really look upset then I add nest box again and this is it's resault and the reason that 3 of their baby lost beacause there was crack on all of 3 other eggs!

Please, do not be offended! By your own words, this happened in error, you knew it was wrong! But you then said you were going to wait a bit and let them breed again! There is so so much suffering for these babies, that is what is raising the apparent hostility! For these poor creatures to spend their few days in such pain is awful!

 

[Terry57]

Let's all stay calm. Instead of accusations, let's focus on support and education.

Yes, many people do provide nest boxes for their birds, however it is best not to provide it as it leads to more frustration and suffering than would otherwise be experienced. Yes, the birds will be upset when you take it out, but human children get upset when you prevent them from eating lots of candy. Both things are things that are enjoyable but destructive. Just be strong, and stick to your position, and your birds will be happier in the end.


Many of us have started our lives with birds without the information to know if we are helping or hurting. Hopefully this learning experience will be the last of this type and hopefully we can all support and encourage the OP as they learn.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Excellent post, Dani, I completely agree with all of it.

 

[Arash]

One of the problems is that birds do things for a reason. They don't always do what we want them to do, and it does no good to hope that they will change just because we want them to change. It can be hard to understand why parent birds would do something like this. Shouldn't all parent birds naturally love and protect their chicks? But as you know, not even all humans are kind to their offspring, and birds can be much like humans.

In the wild, a sick bird is a danger to the flock. A sick bird might transmit its illness to the others. If it flies poorly or acts odd, it might attract the attention of predators who will catch any bird in the flock they can, not just the sick one. For this reason sick birds do their best to conceal the fact from the others - they know instinctively that losing the flock, being left behind, means death.

It is difficult to say why the parents started picking on the one baby. Maybe it was injured by the other baby, or stepped on accidentally. For some reason, when the parents saw the injured baby they decided to get rid of it. This can be necessary in the wild, because the other baby could become ill. In the wild it is difficult to raise chicks - so much food to bring and so much energy to spend on care - so tending to a sick chick could take enough food and time away from the healthy one so that both die. Or, perhaps there is something not right mentally with the parents. They both have a harmful mutation, and perhaps there are invisible problems that make them...well, let's say insane for lack of a better word, or at least unfit to be parents.

It will do no good to keep putting the injured baby back with them in the hope that they will be good parents all if a sudden. No, they have decided that this chick should die, and it doesn't matter what anyone else thinks. It presents you with a difficult problem.

The only way for the chick to have any chance is if you can do two things. One, the wound must be cleaned and protected and disinfected, and it still might not heal properly. A vet could do the best job at this. If there is no possibility to get to a vet, you can try to flush the wound with clean water for a long time to try to wash away dirt and germs. Many doctors now say not to use peroxide, as it damages healthy tissue. An antibiotic ointment might help prevent infection. There are some "artificial skin" products that form a seal over wounds to protect them - but usually these have some solvent or alcohol and hurt like crazy when you apply them.

Second, for the bird to live you must feed him, and as you have learned this isn't easy. The food must be correct, such as baby parrot formula, and it must be not too hot or not too cold. Too hot and it can burn an actual hole in the tender crop, or cause it to form a sore or wound. Too cold, and the food can congeal in the crop like cement so that no food at all makes it into the digestive system and the bird starves. The bird may refuse to eat from an unfamiliar device. Even with th correct food and technique, it takes a lot of time. Babies must eat every few hours, and they must be kept warm. So you see it is a daunting task, to try to save this little life.

And even if you do save him, h might not be a healthy bird because his parents have genetic problems. He should never be allowed to reproduce and pass along bad genes. It is not a good prospect. I hope you can find a vet to help you, because the baby is in a lot of pain. Birds are very sensitive, and that is a big wound, and it probably hurts. A vet migh be able to give the bird some medicine to help with the pain. Sadly, and I sorrow to say this, the baby may have such a hard time ahead of it that it would be kinder to stop the suffering instead of dragging it out. A vet could advise you on the baby's chances, and perhaps there is a positive outcome that medical help could bring. All you can do now is to think as hard as you can about what can be done, with compassion and all the wisdom in your heart, and do what seems right and best to you. That is all any of us can do.

It may be too late to help this little baby, but you can take some steps to prevent this from happening again. The parents will probably never be good parents, and if they have more chicks the same thing may happen again, and both you and the future chicks will sorrow over it. Plus, the parents have bad genetics that should not be passed on. You can find information here, I am not a bird breeder so can't really advise, but probably the males and females should be kept in separate cages from now on. That is probably the only way to keep them both and to prevent more chicks.

Many people have birds that lay eggs and raise chicks without problems, but you have been very unlucky. There is a lot to learn in a very short span of time, and it might not be enough to save the baby. I'm very sorry. Do the best you can, ak for advice if you are not sure, and do your best to prevent it from happening again. That's all anyone can do. I hope things will work out. Thank you for caring enough about the baby to come ask a bunch of strangers for advice, and don't stop loving the wonderful feathered beings in the cage.

Thank you so much for complete explenation.
Today I called a breeder and sent him photo of this little cute chick he told me he could survive if I give him proper care and food and keep him warm, he told lovebirds chick when they have feathers like this thay will not die easily. and he told me when female layed eggs I should took them out untile last egg and replace them with artificial eggs then when she finished again replace them with real eggs and if I don't do that there is high probablity that first chick kill all other babies and when it is on his 8 or 10 days it may even couse crack on other eggs that baby still alive in it but he also told most female will learn it when they become older and they will lay on eggs after second or third eggs. but as you and others told me I decided to don't help them to breed again.
I upload some photos of him and it's parrent they all now look healty(I know I shouldn't put him on the ground but it was for a second for taking photo)
And I found a cream for healing faster but I think it's not a good idia to apply on birds.

 

[Arash]

wow!!!
really I don't care about breeding birds I just bought 2 pairs of lovebirds (I didn't know their gender I bought them when they were too young) and for helping them to be happy just put nest box inside their cage!! (I think most of people do that!
last time female layed eggs I put them out and take the box out but female was really look upset then I add nest box again and this is it's resault and the reason that 3 of their baby lost beacause there was crack on all of 3 other eggs!

Please, do not be offended! By your own words, this happened in error, you knew it was wrong! But you then said you were going to wait a bit and let them breed again! There is so so much suffering for these babies, that is what is raising the apparent hostility! For these poor creatures to spend their few days in such pain is awful!

Yes you are right. It's not good idia to breed them unless you have exprience to fix unpredicted problems.