What's your opinion on free flight/wing clipping?

[Conurekidd]

Excuse me I'm sorry for my ignorance. Please forgive me as I apologize.

I'll post links of real facts of the survival rate of an ecscaped flighted bird.
As for Phycolodgical benefits. I'm not douting ANYONE. People clip there birds. It's life.
Explain San Franciscos wild flock of escaped flighted PETS who thrived as for new yorks monks and las amazons. The pet realeased ones.
I'm sorry, as a rehabilator I know far more benefits of a parrot being flighted vs not.
Again I understand clipped birds. Some people prefer it. But where did I make a debate out of it. I just stated my opinion. As you can see in my op I said this is my opinion.
But I have previous threads that proove the survival rate is higher than an escaped clipped bird.
Also you said. "a clipped bird can't get away in the first place".
Yes they can. And if it can't your bird was clipped to sever. Because a gust can create 'flight'. I'm sorry if I did turn it to a debate. My mistake. I feel strogly against clipped birds. But I UNDERSTAND other reasons.
Please take your time to read these few links.
Feathers, Flight and Parrot Keeping by Pamela Clark
Those Wondrous Wings! -- Why we do not wing-clip our starlings

If youd like more ask. I have many many many sources to provide.
Also previous links to other thread of escaped birds that were flighted and the bird was returned home. Only one story (which was just today) that they were killed. (r.i.p. Little buddy.) vs the clipped bird going to the ground next door to be viciously killed by a dog. If the bird was flighted woulda never happened.
Again I'm sorry for causing this to 'a debate'. Just a strong subject.
I'll refine myself to other links as my source of opinion. Sorry man

 

[JensFlock]

I wing clip my guys because I have a small apartment, and they like to try to fly into the window if I don't. My cockatoo is growing in his flight feathers again. I've only had him a couple of months and his feathers were cut very raggedy, so I'm letting his grow in. He doesn't even try to fly, so I'm going to let them grow back in so I can clip them better.

 

[Autumn]

I normally keep my birds in a room that only has one door and have something that prevents access to outside of it when they leave the room they are wearing a harness.


I am a big fan of the HARNESS easiest way to prevent your bird from flying away- if it is out of a safe secure area put a harness on your bird! for smaller birds harness`s can be made out of shoelaces! its a simple solution to allot of heartache! the hard part is getting the bird to accept the harness LOL.

This is just my opinion on the subject but i have found my birds more confident when they are fully flighted as opposed to clipped.

Just my $0.02

A harness? By which you mean something man-made on your bird, by which will stress out the bird.

 

[Netty]

A harness? By which you mean something man-made on your bird, by which will stress out the bird.

Yes a man made object on the bird just like the cage you put it in for protection.

When the bird is PROPERLY harness trained they DON'T mind wearing it because it becomes a fun experience.

WHY does it become a fun experience? Because you TRAIN them to accept it.
MANY people on this forum and others use a harness on their birds.

WHY? because it keeps the bird SAFE.

Therefore TRAINING your bird PROPERLY to accept a HARNESS is NOT stressful.

 

[mygirl]

we clip 4 of mylahs flight feathers only we do it ourselves just make it into a game for her, when we got her her wings were hacked and she had a lot of trouble with her first molt

 

[cupcake]

I normally keep my birds in a room that only has one door and have something that prevents access to outside of it when they leave the room they are wearing a harness.


I am a big fan of the HARNESS easiest way to prevent your bird from flying away- if it is out of a safe secure area put a harness on your bird! for smaller birds harness`s can be made out of shoelaces! its a simple solution to allot of heartache! the hard part is getting the bird to accept the harness LOL.

This is just my opinion on the subject but i have found my birds more confident when they are fully flighted as opposed to clipped.

Just my $0.02

A harness? By which you mean something man-made on your bird, by which will stress out the bird.

Pretty much everything in a pet birds life is man made... cage, toys, bowls, even the food is prepared in a way that wouldn't be found in the wild.

A harness causes no more stress then any of the above things if your bird is fine with you putting it on...

 

[John]

Netty,

What type of harness do you use? I want to get one for my baby Red Bellied Parrot. I bought a Feather Tether for my GCC years ago, but he would never let me put it on him.

Thanks.

 

[Conurekidd]

Iv always had trouble with harnesses on adult birds. Usally takes time.
I'm gonna train my baby to wear it. I'm hand feeding still and will be the next 6 weeks. So once the feathers are fully grown I'm gonna start harness training the baby
Cant wait. My baby is gonna be so strong!!! Another reason I prefer not to clip.

 

[mtdoramike]

I'm a firm believer in wing clipping. I have lost a few birds to open doors. I don't care how careful you are, one day, that door will be letf open just for s split second and your bird is gone. Fight harnesses are great when you take your bird outside, but you can't leave it on him all the time.

To me it's about being a responsible pet owner. It's an extra pre-caution for your bird as well as you. I'm sure that is how some of the non-native bird populations have gotten started. I also feel that a hand raised bird will not be able to fend for itself in the wild.

 

[Netty]

Netty,

What type of harness do you use? I want to get one for my baby Red Bellied Parrot. I bought a Feather Tether for my GCC years ago, but he would never let me put it on him.

Thanks.

I use to make my own! lol when it comes to store bought i based my designs about the ones my local pet supply shop carried... it was pretty much the exact same as the aviator one but i made it since they didn't have ones in the right size for my lovies or teils.

 

[Conurekidd]

I'm a firm believer in wing clipping. I have lost a few birds to open doors. I don't care how careful you are, one day, that door will be letf open just for s split second and your bird is gone. Fight harnesses are great when you take your bird outside, but you can't leave it on him all the time.

To me it's about being a responsible pet owner. It's an extra pre-caution for your bird as well as you. I'm sure that is how some of the non-native bird populations have gotten started. I also feel that a hand raised bird will not be able to fend for itself in the wild.

Don't take his wrong way but am I irresponable because I refuse to clip my birds?
Also do you belive a bird who wants to be here will acually leave?
Just a question. Sounds a bit like your saying it's responsible to clip wings

 

[Netty]

I'm a firm believer in wing clipping. I have lost a few birds to open doors. I don't care how careful you are, one day, that door will be letf open just for s split second and your bird is gone. Fight harnesses are great when you take your bird outside, but you can't leave it on him all the time.

To me it's about being a responsible pet owner. It's an extra pre-caution for your bird as well as you. I'm sure that is how some of the non-native bird populations have gotten started. I also feel that a hand raised bird will not be able to fend for itself in the wild.

Don't take his wrong way but am I irresponable because I refuse to clip my birds?
Also do you belive a bird who wants to be here will acually leave?
Just a question. Sounds a bit like your saying it's responsible to clip wings

BOTH of you have valid points, I'm sure it wasn't a jab at you but it is their personal opinion, which by law EVERYONE is entitled to their own opinion. it doesn't mean you have to be confrontational about it you have given your reasons why if people don't want to watch their wording and make it seem like they are taking a jab at people then ignore them and be the bigger person this thread went from asking who does what to who does what and why they are right and everyone is wrong.

I'm sure that wasn't the original intentions of this thread so why turn it into that? post your opinion read other peoples if you don't agree or feel something has been made as a jab towards you then take it to PM's as it just makes you look like a bad guy.

My opinion works with your i agree with flighted birds but you also need to be responsible about the way it is done allot of people don't have the time or effort to want to put into training their birds to a harness or they are to small for a harness and making one is out of the question because they don't know how to.

Leave it at to each there own and move on. You aren't going to change people's mind by trying to bully them into free flighting their birds BUT i also believe that it is not logical at times to have a fully flighted bird within a household.


Freedom of opinion and freedom of speech is what the internet is all about no reason to start trouble when you don't have to.

 

[Autumn]

A harness? By which you mean something man-made on your bird, by which will stress out the bird.

Yes a man made object on the bird just like the cage you put it in for protection.

When the bird is PROPERLY harness trained they DON'T mind wearing it because it becomes a fun experience.

WHY does it become a fun experience? Because you TRAIN them to accept it.
MANY people on this forum and others use a harness on their birds.

WHY? because it keeps the bird SAFE.

Therefore TRAINING your bird PROPERLY to accept a HARNESS is NOT stressful.

A food bowl is also a man made object that is put in there, just like a cage. But you shouldn't compare a cage to a harness, why? For in the wild/in nature birds have a canopy or a tree with branches which is similar to a cage, that offers protection; their habitat yes Netty? Ah I'm glad you agree. A foodbowl to whatever the species of birds diet in a log or nest. But a harness ? I fail to see a connection with that to that of nature(Don't even mention the material, be serious)

Now you also mentioned training'' '' them to adjust to something stressful out of their nature. Just like how an owner can train their bird to be flightless and dependant on the owner(s) or to train them to not fly, while able to; with voice commnds or such.

Now you shouldn't act the defendant for this is a simple briefing and sharing of opinions.

''Training your bird to accept the harness is not stressful'' So answer me this, thtoughout the training or at the start the bird feels no stress what so ever?

 

[Conurekidd]

Not when there babies. Maybe when there adults.
I will always harness my birds. Its not up to you to decide weather it's right or wrong.
It's MY bird. And if MY birds likes to go outside then a harness is nessasary.
Fact is we CAN NOT mimc there environment and if you feel we can kudos to you.
I bet your birds are happy as heck and that's fantastic. But the same with clipping wings
There no more right than wrong on both ends. It's not a debate or argument. People clip people don't. People harness and your the one iv ever known to say other wise. But again people don't.

 

[John]

OK, wing clippers repeat after me:

Parrot owners who keep their birds flighted are NOT all a bunch of irresponisble, bleeding heart, animal rights extremists, who don't love or care about their birds enough to clip their wings. Most of them leave their birds flighted because they believe their birds being able to fly is more important than the risk reduction that wing clipping would provide. They want their birds to be safe, but they can't imagine the thought of their birds not being able to fly. They don't clip because they believe it is in the best interest of their birds. They love their birds just as much as I love mine.

Now, those with flighted birds repeat after me:

Parrot owners who clip their birds' wings are NOT all a bunch of heartless, animal abusers, who are too lazy to train their birds and who "cripple" their birds so they can control them. Most of them clip their birds' wings because they believe that minimizing the risk of escape or injury is more important to their birds than being able to fly. They would love for their birds to fly, but they can't imagine the thought of losing them to a flight related accident or escape. They clip because they believe it is in the best interest of their birds. They love their birds just as much as I love mine.

 

[merlinsmom13]

Amen, get a grip everyone. This forum is a place to exchange ideas, not judge how others approach birdkeeping. If there was abuse involved, I would get it. But, both sides have valid points. Go w/what fits your home & your family.

 

[Pedro]

I believe in what ever the situation is & I have both flighted & clipped parrots & not one of them have any issues. If anyone wishes to clip that's their business & if you wish to have a flighted bird well thats your business as well.

As long as a clip is done correctly, lets face it we should be able to decide whats best for our circumstances without feeling terrible.

Also accidents happen that's why they are called accidents. It works both ways regardless of if your bird is flighted or clipped.

Some bad accidents with flighted parrots, drowning in bath water or toilet bowl, getting burnt in hot washing up water or worse landing into hot oil on the stove, one lady i know even washed her GCC in with the washing. Yes it died not to mention the many birds killed by fans & flying into windows. There was also a report of an eclectus in a harness got away from his owner & got caught up in a tree & a cat was about to pounce on it, lucky someone heard all the noise & rescued the bird. There are heaps more.

Now clipped, pet dog or cat attacks, sat on or trod on. That's about it but i am sure someone might add to it.

I have more accidents reported to me with flighted birds than clipped. Just food for thought. And you know what some of these people should have know better. We can't always be alert because it only takes a split second for any of these accidents to happen.

 

[Rennagade]

Don't forget it has a great deal to do with where you live aswell! I see we are from all over the world so we all come from very different environments. I've mentioned I clip my Alex's and gave the reasons why. My neighbour had a beautiful female Sulfer Crested Cockatoo for twelve years. She always kept her clipped but decided to let her wings grow out. one day sitting on the verandah a group of cocky's flew overhead making a god almight racket (as they do!) and Shelly flew off to join them. Because this flock of Cockatoos nest in the hollows of the gum trees nearby Shelley is never far away and has intergrated in with the wild birds. She STILL comes and visits my neighbour from time to time (mostly for a hit on her cup of tea i think!) This is the only "happy ending" story I have seen with a flighted bird "escapee" and I believe it is because the bird is native and has grown up watching this flock of cockatoos. Unfortunately I have heard so many stories of people losing their bird and never seeing them again. All of these stories are from people who have had a clipped bird and then the flight feathers grew in and they didn't realise it was clipping time again. What an interesting thread this has turned out to be!!!!!

 

[Netty]

''Training your bird to accept the harness is not stressful'' So answer me this, thtoughout the training or at the start the bird feels no stress what so ever?

Turn it into a game and do it over time.

Its not like you just snap the harness on and say deal with it.


No matter what is done in a household(not just to the animal but also around it it general) NOTHING will EVER be "non-stressful" to our pets, at first, you just make it as stress free as you can when you do it and turn it into something positive that they will enjoy.

My birds all got started with simple shoe lace we would play with them and drape one over them etc to get them use to it they sat and played and enjoyed it. then you move onto the actual harness (mine was handmade with those 1/2" laces for my lovies and teils) they played with the harness when it was made then we would just put it over the head and give lots of treats they we would do just under the wings and give lots of treats once they were completely ok with that then it moved up the full harness being put on.

It was no more stressful then training the bird to "step up" on command when you first get them they are unsure of it at first but it eventually becomes a fun thing that they enjoy.

My fids eventually realized harness meant kitchen = play with veggies on the big table and were completely game for it everytime.

As with any training of any animal its about adjusting them to a situation. putting a dog in a collar or harness isn't natural or normal for them but we do it for their own protection because unlike with our feathered friends we don't have the option of cutting the dogs legs off to prevent it from running off.

As i stated in a previous post i leave my birds flighted because I choose to But there is situations where i would clip if i needed to and that i understand that people can't keep their birds flighted in certain situations and i don't have a problem with it. in a forest they have a canopy for protection, then try making a cage without bars and only a top. somethings aren't natural and the animal has to learn to deal with it. dogs aren't meant to be fenced in yards but we do it for their safety and protection.

and yes there is a BIG difference between a forest and a cage, i have been there done that and am going to costa rica again in november to see wild macaws. toucans etc again. big difference between 100's of miles to fly and a cage thats only a few square feet.

 

[Conurekidd]

Don't forget it has a great deal to do with where you live aswell! I see we are from all over the world so we all come from very different environments. I've mentioned I clip my Alex's and gave the reasons why. My neighbour had a beautiful female Sulfer Crested Cockatoo for twelve years. She always kept her clipped but decided to let her wings grow out. one day sitting on the verandah a group of cocky's flew overhead making a god almight racket (as they do!) and Shelly flew off to join them. Because this flock of Cockatoos nest in the hollows of the gum trees nearby Shelley is never far away and has intergrated in with the wild birds. She STILL comes and visits my neighbour from time to time (mostly for a hit on her cup of tea i think!) This is the only "happy ending" story I have seen with a flighted bird "escapee" and I believe it is because the bird is native and has grown up watching this flock of cockatoos. Unfortunately I have heard so many stories of people losing their bird and never seeing them again. All of these stories are from people who have had a clipped bird and then the flight feathers grew in and they didn't realise it was clipping time again. What an interesting thread this has turned out to be!!!!!

Wow!! I would be devestated.
Also a bird clipped 12 years that knew how to fly well enough to keep up with a flock is incredible. I mean I cant feel how horriable the owner must have felt.
But for the bird to still know how to. She must of done wing flaps often.