7 hours in emergency- Not a fun day

[Kiwibird]

She did climb down off her cage and walked over to my wife and said " mama....mama up up...My wife just looked down at her and had a tear coming down her face. Then left the room.

This absolutely broke my heart

Perhaps, if she is feeling up to it, your wife could gently talk to Poppie at some point today while she's in her cage so your wife feels safe and Poppie doesn't feel her mommy hates her. I believe offering some show of "forgiveness" to a bird who has attacked as well as showing them what they've done helps prevent further attacks. Remember Poppie is functioning, at best, on the mental level of a toddler. We, the intelligent humans, have to take the first step to rebuild our own trust in the bird after a situation like this for the benefit of the bird. I do feel for your wife though, that must have been terrifying coming out of the blue like that. It broke my heart the day Kiwi attacked my nose, but I'm glad (as angry as I was with him) that I quickly took proactive steps to start rebuilding trust with him again after the attack. You don't want Poppie to feel rejected and kick off a pattern of bad behavior because (as a bird) she can't figure out why her favored human has 'rejected' her.

I'm glad she is medically ok, and toe caught in the sweater is a good possibility of what could set off a bird like that.

 

[henpecked]

Wow. Hate to hear of that happening. The only times I've seen something similar is when another animal is involved. Usually the zone is jealous of another bird, dog or even another person. Was another of the birds receiving attention at the time.

 

[Doublete]

How is everyone tonight?

 

[Hawk]

*note to self: never let my guard down with Chiqui even years from now*

That is really scary. I hope your wife is ok.
I had a horse that attacked me one day while my dad was there and he swore he would take a gun to the colt. I just found a trainer known to take problem horses and signed him over.
Sometimes you never find out what triggers them,, they are animals. But I'm very sorry your wife got so hurt.

I second the question does poppie know what she did?
I am very careful around Chiqui as she is so new to me.. And I can't read her like I could Sydney. In the 6 years I had him he never bit me, but he also was NOT a cuddly CAG. I can't imagine Chiqui and I ever being cuddly like your wife and poppie.

Keep us updated on what the vet says. So sorry for your day. I've found with my animals when it rains it pours bad shtuff

Vet says she is 100 % fine and healthy....Go figure.

As for your question...if poppie knew she did bad....I observed her all day and she has been reserved....but twice climbed down off her cage walked into dinning room at looked up at my wife with one foot lifted....saying " mama mama..up up" my wife looked at her and just teared up...My wife has a lite brace on her neck to keep from bending or turning it because of stitches in her main artery.

So....I don't know....I would think she knows she did something, they do have emotions, and I had to pick her up though she wanted to be with my wife....just we haven't clarified yet what set her off like that.

 

[Hawk]

I am so sorry this happened to your wife tonight . That was a freak accident that she went straight for the jugular! Wow, and needing emergency surgery, how scary. I'm glad ad she's fine now. Of course she's mad now, she'll most likely be okay with the birds after it all settles down.

I wasn't sure how aggressively the female Amazons acted during hormonal times, but apparently some can be like the males! Maybe especially the hot 3?

Thanks...it was a freak accident, she checked out great at the vet...so it is puzzling. My wife had a 3/4 inch triangle gash, which punchered the main artery (jugular). She's settling down a bit...can't have the birds on her for a while. I can understand her sudden fear now. I remember when my dad brought home a Police K-9 dog and I came home from school when I was around 7 and the dog viewed me as an intruder and literally tore me up.
I was in the hospital 3 days. And to this day have a uneasiness around big dogs.

 

[Hawk]

Holy smokes! Not good! I can say that I have seen that turn on a dime behavior in zon's many times. We always say that crazy year is around 6-8 year mark but I have seen it happen as late as 12 and as early as 5 where one Spring day they just go bonkers.

This is the reason I NEVER allow a bird on my shoulder. I was raised in Northern Michigan so I know that Spring is just now starting for you and it could and probably is a major factor.

I hope you wife makes a quick recovery I know the mental fear can take longer than the physical injury to subside, when it does hopefully she will have a change of heart.

Karma male YNA was estimated to be between 25 and 30 when he came to me (could have and probably was older) he would attack like that, anyone and everyone but me. I got one really good bite from him but only because he was trapped in a toy but knowing what he was capable of I never allowed him on my shoulder and kissing and really any cuddle time could only happen when I was alone with him.

There are just too many danger by our faces, eyes, veins, lips I have no desire to look like a Picasso painting!

Thanks Labell, I placed too much trust in poppie, Zon's I have not had a big problem with. But I should know better, I have a permanent dimple in left cheek ( bit straight thru my mouth) where My too got me several years ago ( my major Mitchell) and too's have a very nasty bite. Have a permanent scar on my arm as well where my hawk got me a few years ago. They too have some very powerful razors for beaks.

I doubt the birds will go anywhere, she's an animal lover, just her fear speaking, which is understandable. She might not want to hold Poppie for a while.

I spoke today with an animal behavioral specialist Ph. D...yeah I know I laughed too, They actually have a college Ph.D course for animal whisperers and get employable as well?? Gotta be kidding me.
Anyway it was a friend of a friend...they claimed that Poppie may have had a severe spike in hormones, like a big sexual arousal that finds no immediate release. It would be like a diabetic with a severe blood sugar spike......made the bird go crazy. Made sense actually. As she explained that all wild animals have and can get violent. Like the Chimp that tore that ladys face off that was on the net a while back, of lions or tigers as pets that turn, even a domestic dog can turn ( seen that many times).

The only other thing the vet said it could be, is that the bird got into something or ate something that gave it a sudden spike...I doubt that was the culprit...

Spring is just starting, a little slow this year as we had 4 inches of snow sunday...again. Where in Northern Michigan do you grow up? Michigan is the Only state where you can visit ( Towns named) Paradise and Hell the same day.

 

[Taw5106]

My jaw hit the floor reading this, WWOOWW!!!! I'm glad your wife is recovering well and I know she's scared, lost all faith in Poppie in that moment but like others have said give her time. That was a very traumatic moment for you all. I wonder if something came up on the TV like mentioned by another person. My dogs react to animals on TV and sounds. Buddy watches the TV, and has reacted to movement on the TV like jumping, turning quickly on full alert, sitting up and flattening his feathers, etc but that's as far as he's reacted so far. And if it's hormones, good lord!!!

 

[Doublete]

Poor thing... If only she could tell you what happened.

Your wife will have ptsd type problems I'm sure. It won't be easy.

 

[Hawk]

Holy smokes! Not good! I can say that I have seen that turn on a dime behavior in zon's many times. We always say that crazy year is around 6-8 year mark but I have seen it happen as late as 12 and as early as 5 where one Spring day they just go bonkers.

Yep. I'm guessing it was a hormonal trigger too. This bird is just now really coming into season, and may not know how to react. The 7-12 years are the hardest with a zon or a big mac.

I have seen it happen. We fostered a BFA that couldn't be handled 4-6 months out of the year, and couldn't have been sweeter the other 4-6 months of the year.

I've seen large toos turn on people like that as well. Mostly U2's.

Thanks...Yeah I am almost willing to bet something hormonal spiked in her and she had no way to justify it or release her hormones. Kinda like when a person gets a blood sugar spike....only reverse....

I have a permanent scar/ dimple where my major Mitchell cockatoo got me back in the 80's. she was around 45-47 age wise then...attacked viciously. Then after that never did again. Just that one time in 23 yrs I had her. Died at 68 a couple years back. So I often wondered because of her age in relation to poppie being 8, and similar in the ways they attacked.

Poppie is all lovey dovey today, and wants her mama, my wife, but she can't pick her up right now with the brace on her neck. Just to keep from turn head and breaking the main artery back open. Was a lot of blood, and yeah scary for her.

 

[Hawk]

holy crap!

wow, I am so sorry this happened.

I wonder if something spooked her and she felt she didn't have an out? I see Maverick sometimes gets spooked, but since he can fly, he will choose that before biting. Is Poppie flighted? I have read that a non-flighted bird will tend to bite because they feel they cannot get away from the perceived threat. Which kinda makes sense... and I see it with my two guys. Of course, this is a huge debate, and I am just now trying out this whole allowing flight thing. But, I have seen a difference in how they act out.

I feel so bad for all involved. A serious injury like that does tend to tarnish a relationship and shatters trust. I hope you can get to the bottom of what caused her to act out. I also hope for a speedy recovery for your wife.

Thanks...Yes Poppie is Flighted so she can fly, but nothing spooks her, she's not afraid of anything. Poppie will fly and land perfectly on my shoulder or arm.

She's the boss of all the birds and yet so very gentle and polite.

 

[Hawk]

I am so sorry this happened to your wife tonight . That was a freak accident that she went straight for the jugular! Wow, and needing emergency surgery, how scary. I'm glad ad she's fine now. Of course she's mad now, she'll most likely be okay with the birds after it all settles down.

I wasn't sure how aggressively the female Amazons acted during hormonal times, but apparently some can be like the males! Maybe especially the hot 3?

Thanks.....was a freak accident. Surgery was minor, but required as poppie punctured the main artery...have to sew it or whatever they do...

Anyway, poppie is fine today...took her to vet anyway...and vet said she's 100% fine....however he's had a case where a bird did similar and come to find out, the parrots claw got caught in that persons sweater on their shoulder and the parrot freaked out. Parrots hate being trapped. The vet pointed out that poppies claws are a bit long. I kept them a little longer because she's a clumsy fart without her claws. So they are trimmed and also trimmed her beak down.

It just may have been possible Poppie got her claw caught...my wife had a sweater on as well.....though I'm not 100% sure that was what triggered her. She did climb down off her cage and walked over to my wife and said " mama....mama up up...My wife just looked down at her and had a tear coming down her face. Then left the room.

I could see that at a possible scenario. They feel trapped, and instinctavly go into "fight" mode, since "flight" is out due to being caught.

The last sentence made me tear up. That is so incredibly heartbreaking.

Thanks.....Poppie is very good at flight and lands on target. Other times she prefers to walk and move dogs out of the way.

 

[Hawk]

Yeah, well that triggers the full on panic... and makes total sense, and is just a freak accident.

The bird is still pet quality.

Yeah I think your right there......and yeah she's a great bird, not a bad bone in her body....just something happened and frankly I have to keep an open eye to what actually set her off. Could very well have been a talon caught....drives birds bonkers.

But she's top quality and she's not going anywhere. Even my wife has calmed down but can't pick any of the birds up yet. She's an avid animal lover so the birds won't go anywhere. She spoke out of fear.

 

[Hawk]

My jaw hit the floor reading this, WWOOWW!!!! I'm glad your wife is recovering well and I know she's scared, lost all faith in Poppie in that moment but like others have said give her time. That was a very traumatic moment for you all. I wonder if something came up on the TV like mentioned by another person. My dogs react to animals on TV and sounds. Buddy watches the TV, and has reacted to movement on the TV like jumping, turning quickly on full alert, sitting up and flattening his feathers, etc but that's as far as he's reacted so far. And if it's hormones, good lord!!!

Thank you, It could have been the TV, but then She's afraid of nothing. We were watching some comedy. She's a very good flyer so she could have flown.

Hormonal spike maybe??

 

[Hawk]

She did climb down off her cage and walked over to my wife and said " mama....mama up up...My wife just looked down at her and had a tear coming down her face. Then left the room.

This absolutely broke my heart

Perhaps, if she is feeling up to it, your wife could gently talk to Poppie at some point today while she's in her cage so your wife feels safe and Poppie doesn't feel her mommy hates her. I believe offering some show of "forgiveness" to a bird who has attacked as well as showing them what they've done helps prevent further attacks. Remember Poppie is functioning, at best, on the mental level of a toddler. We, the intelligent humans, have to take the first step to rebuild our own trust in the bird after a situation like this for the benefit of the bird. I do feel for your wife though, that must have been terrifying coming out of the blue like that. It broke my heart the day Kiwi attacked my nose, but I'm glad (as angry as I was with him) that I quickly took proactive steps to start rebuilding trust with him again after the attack. You don't want Poppie to feel rejected and kick off a pattern of bad behavior because (as a bird) she can't figure out why her favored human has 'rejected' her.

I'm glad she is medically ok, and toe caught in the sweater is a good possibility of what could set off a bird like that.

Awwww Thanks...!

Yeah we did have a talk with Poppie, I did anyway, and showed her what she did. Told her that biting too hard hurt mama.

Poppie said " Poppie Good girl"..No, poppie is not a good girl when you bite mama like that. I think by her attitude today she's aware she did something wrong. She's been very lovable and gentle today.

Yeah she's in perfect health....we are almost wondering if she may have caught a talon nail in my wife's sweather. About the only logical thing that could have happened.

 

[Taw5106]

Catching a toe on Mama's sweater, I can relate. Venus likes to play and chase my fingers or whatever I have in my hand and twice she has gotten her foot caught or snagged on my shirt and she screamed. Typically she is in my lap when we are playing, she hops and runs so she has gotten her toe caught and either she was surprised by it or it did hurt. Each time I've checked her over thoroughly and she runs for whatever toy we are playing with and I know she's fine. I hope it is something that seemingly simple. Poor Poppie, I think she has realized she's done something wrong and I agree about amazons being like toddlers, Buddy is a 25 year old 3 year old, lol. I hope Your wife comes around but I know she is very fearful right now.

 

[Hawk]

Catching a toe on Mama's sweater, I can relate. Venus likes to play and chase my fingers or whatever I have in my hand and twice she has gotten her foot caught or snagged on my shirt and she screamed. Typically she is in my lap when we are playing, she hops and runs so she has gotten her toe caught and either she was surprised by it or it did hurt. Each time I've checked her over thoroughly and she runs for whatever toy we are playing with and I know she's fine. I hope it is something that seemingly simple. Poor Poppie, I think she has realized she's done something wrong and I agree about amazons being like toddlers, Buddy is a 25 year old 3 year old, lol. I hope Your wife comes around but I know she is very fearful right now.

I'm 99 % sure that's what happened. My wife had a wool sweater on and wool has those loose fibers in it that tend to catch the claw/talon. I honestly don't think it was hormonal as I have seen hormonal in many birds and this was more of a fear attack than hormonal, like being trapped.

Poppie is the Alpha bird in the flock, the boss, and she lets it be known. Doesn't attack the other birds, but she's first in everything and rest back off.

She tried to use that on me once, and I established that " I'm the Alpha of the flock". I used a technique that I was taught in handling falcons and Hawks, it establishes dominance over the bird and as the Alpha as well.

When a parrot gets biting or cranky you reach under both wings cupping their brest and lift them straight up over your head then down again flipping them on their back. You'll get a bite on the hand, then release them back sitting up. I kiss them on the head quickly as I do it to assure them they are not being harmed. I don't recommend everyone doing this as they will bit hard going thru this. It doesn't hurt them, it's a technique that is used where the nerve under wing that goes to back part of wing on body to the mid portion of the back is stimulated and in the wild, mates (males) do this to females and even other males to establish dominance and territory as well as first pick of mates.

I have done this with all my birds....never bitten ever now that I established that. All birds are careful and gentle. They do get cranky now and then, but know not to bite the alpha.

as for the incident with Poppie and my wife....My wife has pick up poppie today.. Poppie laid her head on my wifes tummy. Very cute, but still My wife did point out that big bandaid on her neck to poppie...I think poppie knows.

My wife is a former Vet, so she's had her share of being bitten or clawed.
Handles snakes, Big ones too, and will tell you about the crazy cat in the vet office that could run on the ceiling. LOL....Poppie will be fine...wife as well. Just an unfortunate incident, and a lesson learned in certain clothing.

To poppie, I'm Alpha, she doesn't dare bite me ever, except the nite she bit my wife, but I think because she was caught in wool with her claw..

 

[Birdman666]

GLAD TO HEAR IT! Yeah, it's just a freak accident. No sense holding onto any fears. Gotta let stuff like that go. "My toe was caught Ma, and I freaked out. I thought it was going to be the end of me..."

My red lored is like that in this house...

Even with a red front and a greenwing in the mix. She's the flock leader... they defer to her when she gets her backbone up.

Well, with Maggie it's more like, I don't care... and if you feel that strongly about it and it makes you feel better, I'll back off.

Having TWO amazons that BOTH think they're top bird in the house?! That's where you run into problems. Sooner or later they have to find out...

 

[Christinenc2000]

Tell your wife I am so so glad she is getting well and Give poppie a scratch for me.

 

[Taw5106]

GLAD TO HEAR IT! Yeah, it's just a freak accident. No sense holding onto any fears. Gotta let stuff like that go. "My toe was caught Ma, and I freaked out. I thought it was going to be the end of me..."

My red lored is like that in this house...

Even with a red front and a greenwing in the mix. She's the flock leader... they defer to her when she gets her backbone up.

Well, with Maggie it's more like, I don't care... and if you feel that strongly about it and it makes you feel better, I'll back off.

Having TWO amazons that BOTH think they're top bird in the house?! That's where you run into problems. Sooner or later they have to find out...

And end up with Amazon ear muffs, lol!

 

[Birdman666]

I had amazon ear muffs for many, many years...

Blue front on one shoulder, red lored on the other.

But they weren't rivals.

Amazons demonstrating for each other ripping ear lobes off would be more likely if you were shouldering two rivals at the same time.