Advice Needed

[ParkersMom]

So Parker is becoming very good at flying...meaning he flies when and where he wants...
I have several issues with this.
1 it would be impossible to completely bird proof the house
2 we have 4 big dogs and 3 cats and Parker and Charlie are out of the cage almost anytime I am home therefore it would be unfair to keep the dogs and cats put up when He is out ( Charlie is disabled so she doesn't leave the top of her cage)
3 and most important my husband is not at all comfortable with Parker flying around the house, and he wants me to clip the wings, in his defense I did tell him that after Parker mastered flying that I would clip him again until It would be safer in the house for a flighted bird

I feel that for Parkers safety it would be better to have him clipped so that he wouldn't fly to a dog or cat and possibly get injured..
But at the same time he is very happy when flying around as well

Does anyone have experience with a former flier that had to be grounded
I just feel so torn about it

he is not yet to a point where he is comfortable with his take off...very unpredictable so training would be very difficult at this point He won't take off and fly to me... yet when he does take off he goes a willy nilly where he chooses... a lot of the time he will fly towards me but the rest of the time just where ever..

sorry for the rambling but I just want to do what is best for everyone involved

 

[JerseyWendy]

Oy...SUCH a touchy subject.

I will open my mouth and insert foot willingly, however. :54:

My Hunter has both been clipped AND fully flighted throughout her 14 years. She never held a grudge when I trimmed her wings, nor did she do somersaults when she regained full flight.

IMO you have to do what suits you best and is also in Parker's best interest.

....and I will now exit gracefully.

 

[ParkersMom]

Thanks...I know it is a very touchy subject that comes with very large amount of opinion...but I need to hear all sides to be able to make a good decision... Im glad that Hunter didnt hold a grude that was one of my worries for sure...

 

[getwozzy]

Maybe you can look into station training? Teach him to stay put in certain places...

 

[getwozzy]

But as far as clipping- I personally feel that if a bird's safety is at stake you need to look at all aspects of clipping vs not clipping.. If his wings are NOT clipped does he have a better chance of escaping the dogs and cats? Or if he's clipped would he just not attempt to fly?

 

[khaiqha]

Clipped or not you would still have to supervise your animals when they're out together. A clipped bird can still flutter to the floor and be easy pickings. Cats can still scale cages and perches.

How much training have you tried with your animals?

 

[Boysmom]

Kylie is 6 years old and had always been fully flighted when she came to live with me about 2 months ago. She had not been out of her cage much at all in the past few years, and at first she would step up from inside her cage but it took a lot of coaxing. After 2 days she would growl if asked to step up and would attempt to bite. When I showered her the first time ( she hadn't ever been showered ) she flew away at every attempt. I wound up toweling her in the shower with me and would lift sides of the towel to get her wet. When I had her vetted, I decided to clip her wings to give me a bit more control of her till she was settled in and behaved more. She will still fly away from anything that scares her, but she can't get lift to fly up, she simply flies downward. I am daily working with her on stepping up and not being scared and it is a slow process, but some days are better than others and I do see improvement. Yesterday she stepped up on command and spent time in the kitchen with me while I cooked. She did get spooked and flew to the floor then stepped right back up and I returned her to her cage to calm her nerves.

Long story short, proper clipping will leave Parker the ability to fly down from his cage, so you will still have the worry with the dogs and cats. It will stop the somersaults and the flying all through the house though. IMO if the Hubby is uncomfortable with the flying, I would clip. My opinion is that I keep my birds clipped for their safety, as Ruby once when her clip was grown out, flew into my front glass door and had a head trauma. She fully recovered, but it did require an emergency vet visit. Plus we use ceiling fans so that is another reason I clip. It is a very touchy and personal decision though.

 

[ParkersMom]

Just to clarify the issue with the cats and dogs is not overall safety it is about him flying into one of them or movement creating prey drive...the cats don't pay him any attention for the most part and the dogs are well trained and know not to go near if he gets on the floor however if he were to fly into another room where i couldn't see of get to him it might raise and issue... I have had Parker for over a year got him when he was 3 months old and he came to me clipped so he is use to the animals and they are use to him but when you add flight it changes everything

 

[crimson]

this sounds like my house.
I have Willow(my Jardine) out in our eating area. she is the ONLY bird around my animals
all my other birds are behind closed doors all the time.

when we have Willow out, we crate all 3 of our dogs, and put all 4 cats behind closed doors, with litter and food.

that way everyone is safe and sound.

Willow is not clipped and enjoys exercising her wings when she wants to. Yes on occassion she had flown into our patio door, but she would do that anyways clipped or not.

 

[Kalidasa]

You could just do a light clip, knock the wind out his sails a bit. The advantage of that is he can still fly, but he has to work much harder, building muscle, and it buys you a little more time if you decide to go the training route (flight recall, etc). Just a bit off the primaries, but even on both sides.

 

[ParkersMom]

i will look into that slight clip...I would love to have him flighted...and that might help to convince the hubby a little

 

[Jayyj]

Alice arrived with one wing clipped. Whenever something spooked her she would launch herself upwards, get a few feet and then lose balance, spiraling back down to earth with a thump. The look of fear and incomprehension on her face every time it happened was utterly heartbreaking. More importantly, within a few days she'd crash landed on the cat which could have had fatal consequences (fortunately the cat was as surprised as her and simply walked off in a huff). It's certainly made me think that one sided clips are a really bad idea. Part of me thinks a clipped bird is more vulnerable to cats than a flighted one as they don't have the option of escape that a flighted bird would, but I guess a clipped bird is less likely to get into harm's way in the first place. Most of Alice's feathers have come back in and she is now able to fly again, which makes me a lot happier, although she won't take off unless something scares her, and still expects to be carried from cage to sofa to java tree. She's either slightly nervous about flying thanks to the clip, or she's just bone idle - couldn't tell you which!

A while ago somebody posted a link to an essay about how to partially clip a cockatoo's wing so that the bird would be able to get enough lift to get airborne in an emergency but the energy required to fly would mean they were far less likely to fly out of choice where walking or being picked up is an option. Might that be worth investigating?

 

[weco]

1 it would be impossible to completely bird proof the house

It is almost impossible to completely bird proof any house, even without dogs & cats present...

2 we have 4 big dogs and 3 cats and Parker and Charlie are out of the cage almost anytime I am home therefore it would be unfair to keep the dogs and cats put up when He is out ( Charlie is disabled so she doesn't leave the top of her cage)

I have never seen a cage on legs that 2 large dogs, in concert, could not tip over, if they were intent on getting at the birds inside and on a cage where the top is left open, the bird really has no protection if the cage is tipped over...

While I have fostered mini macaws & have a Patagonian conure, their flying around the house is still dangerous.....we have 9 foot ceilings, but even two dogs bent on playing with/catching a flying bird can often do so by cornering them, in flight and surely on the ground.....

Even my nanday would be at a disadvantage because larger birds are too large, with wider wingspans to safely negotiate fleeing from chasing dogs.....cats are even worse as they can quickly & easily climb...especially all the soft surfaces in our homes.....

I think my parrotlet would have the best chance, because its small size & quickness would be its greatest escape asset.....

3 and most important my husband is not at all comfortable with Parker flying around the house, and he wants me to clip the wings, in his defense I did tell him that after Parker mastered flying that I would clip him again until It would be safer in the house for a flighted bird

I feel that for Parkers safety it would be better to have him clipped so that he wouldn't fly to a dog or cat and possibly get injured..
But at the same time he is very happy when flying around as well

A clipped bird is in more danger when dogs & cats are free in the same room they are out of a cage in...especially when the predators number 4 dogs and 3 cats.....have you ever watched a dog that is intent on catching a rabbit or a cat that goes after an injured bird in your yard? It is almost impossible to stop them and when there are multiple dogs or multiple cats involved in the chase, the rabbit is usually caught unless it finds a hole before the dogs catch it and the injured bird may not become lunch, but probably will not survive the joint attack.....natural instincts are hard to quell, even in well trained animals...and...most dogs and/or cats are no where near being well trained.....

You may tell yourself that your dogs or cats would not attack any of your birds, but if their predator instinct were excited, I seriously doubt you would be able to prevent the attack and once they have been involved in an attack, you would never be able to trust them with your birds again.....

And like Wozzy said, you need to look at all aspects and not listen to what you want to hear.....

Clipping only one wing makes the bird appear injured or in trouble to predators, so clipping both wings would be better.....

 

[Boysmom]

well said weco !

 

[ParkersMom]

Weco I totally get what you are saying and unfortunately we don't live in a perfect world in perfect harmony...however I also want to do what is best for Parker...having said that let me clarify just a little
The dogs are most always in the kitchen behind a very tall gate that is securely attached to the wall they have access to the kitchen/dinning room area as well as the downstairs...the cats are allowed where ever they want...one cat is older and can't jump much higher than the couch cushions and can barely climb onto the bed another of the cats is a nervous wreck and will barely ever come out of the back bedroom...with the dogs, if Parker where to stay in the living room he would be fine but he keeps flying into the kitchen with the dogs and that is very dangerous...I know that people will stay train the bird and that is my intentions but saying that any animal is fully trained and will always do as they are told IMO is naive..
I also think that the main point is being missed and that is I am not the only one living in the house and Parker flying all over make my husband very nervous...He is not comfortable with Parker...he can pet him through the cage but that is about it...he is more a cat person...
For safety sake I knew I would be opening a can of worms with this topic and I am not trying to be unpleasant in any way but I genuinely need options to be able to maintain a harmonious multi pet household
I would love to have a fully flighted bird as nature intended but sometimes that is not always an option...
Also I do not intend or will I ever only trim 1 wing/side of any bird
I have another Amazon that is missing a wing completely and there is nothing worse than seeing her get spooked and try to fly away only to flop on the floor...it is very heartbreaking to watch...
I will however look into a partial clip just a few feathers on each side to maybe slow him down a little so that I can better train him...
And if anyone has any more Ideas I welcome them

 

[Mayden]

Weco I totally get what you are saying and unfortunately we don't live in a perfect world in perfect harmony...however I also want to do what is best for Parker...having said that let me clarify just a little
The dogs are most always in the kitchen behind a very tall gate that is securely attached to the wall they have access to the kitchen/dinning room area as well as the downstairs...the cats are allowed where ever they want...one cat is older and can't jump much higher than the couch cushions and can barely climb onto the bed another of the cats is a nervous wreck and will barely ever come out of the back bedroom...with the dogs, if Parker where to stay in the living room he would be fine but he keeps flying into the kitchen with the dogs and that is very dangerous...I know that people will stay train the bird and that is my intentions but saying that any animal is fully trained and will always do as they are told IMO is naive..
I also think that the main point is being missed and that is I am not the only one living in the house and Parker flying all over make my husband very nervous...He is not comfortable with Parker...he can pet him through the cage but that is about it...he is more a cat person...
For safety sake I knew I would be opening a can of worms with this topic and I am not trying to be unpleasant in any way but I genuinely need options to be able to maintain a harmonious multi pet household
I would love to have a fully flighted bird as nature intended but sometimes that is not always an option...
Also I do not intend or will I ever only trim 1 wing/side of any bird
I have another Amazon that is missing a wing completely and there is nothing worse than seeing her get spooked and try to fly away only to flop on the floor...it is very heartbreaking to watch...
I will however look into a partial clip just a few feathers on each side to maybe slow him down a little so that I can better train him...
And if anyone has any more Ideas I welcome them

To me, it seems very black and white. Parker is at risk being flighted unless you can completely get him shut off (not including just baby gates etc) from both cats and dogs. It's not just a case of training the dogs, instinct will override.

What breeds do you have too by the way? When we get a dog, we know for a fact we won't be getting any 'gun' type dogs, or dogs bred for anything other than 'protection of the herd' because they're a higher risk.
(There's other factors into us getting certain breeds, but it is not relevant.)

Unless you can train Parker to stay stationary overnight, I'd suggest a light clip and get your hubs to work with him to get rid of his nervousness at least. He doesn't have to be Parkers best friend, but he should be able to go near him with ease, even if it's just for 'emergencies sake'.

If and when Parker has learnt to stay where he's told, then maybe let him grow out - but even then, if he gets spooked and flies into the kitchen...

Here is something we're looking in to, as a visual deterrent more than anything. It's a lightweight netting that's 'locked' by magnets in the center, means you can easily walk through it (as could the dogs and Parker if tried I imagine) but the idea of a 'barrier' might discourage him from flying over the babygate and into the kitchen area?

[ame="http://www.amazon.co.uk/Magnetic-Flying-Insect-Curtain--HWP110276/dp/B007CJDO7S/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1379009668&sr=8-1&keywords=fly+screen+magnetic"]Magnetic Flying Insect Door Screen / Curtain- (HWP110276): Amazon.co.uk: Kitchen & Home[/ame]

Forgot link, lol

 

[ParkersMom]

I have to border collie mixes a austrailian shepard and a pit...Parker is caged when I am not home as is Charlie...I have seen the nets you are talkimg about...Parker does this thing where he grips the boing at flaps his wings to lunge at anyone walkkng by...I dont think he would do anything but that and when he flies around is what makes the hubby nervous...he says he is willing to handle parker but only if he can wear gloves of some sort

 

[getwozzy]

Is Parker afraid of gloves? If he is, then that will only heighten the tension between hubs and Parker and could lead to a bite or something.

 

[ParkersMom]

Dont know I have never tried it...he is general good with most everything so far...he does like to growl at the vacuum...

 

[getwozzy]

LOL

Well, I can only speak from experience -Jackie was deathly afraid of gloves and just seeing a glove made him freak out and just made the situation worse.

Mayyyyybbeee hubs and Parker need to spend some quality alone time together..? Not necessarily touching/holding, but just being near each other and maybe after doing that every day for a while they'll feel more comfortable with each other?