Am I ruining it?

[Pilaf]

I just got a new green cheek conure over a week ago, he's 3 months old. The first few days it went great but then his soft beaking/exploring started to turn into taking chunks out of my fingers, ears and lips. It hurt so much that now I am very nervous to have my fingertips close to him. Because the pieces of flesh bitten out of my fingertips, right next to my nails were indescribably painful. I am teaching him now my boundaries and when baking goes too hard, with a firm 'no'. And I also try to avoid it by keeping him distracted with foot-toys etc. But I am so afraid to have my fingertips close to him, and I'm afraid he will pick up on my nervousness. He just seems different than the first three days, more nervous it seems, he's startled easily with sudden noises etc and he's bending his body down a lot. I also find it very difficult to read his body language. I just want him to be happy and to build a good relationship with him. Does anybody have any advice?

 

[Flboy]

This still applies!

Sounds positive. Taking a step back and being patient.

If you're nervous about handling him start with some non-contact bonding. I can't stop banging on about clicker and target training! It really is fantastic!

It's where I started with my parent reared Alexandrine. He also went through a biting phase. I think he found skin fascinating. It's significantly reduced now (after 4 months), but he still isn't happy about fingers. He waves, spins, follows a target, shows me his wings and flies to me all on command now. Can't touch him though, it's too scary for him. It might come with more time.

Can't wait to hear how you're doing in a few days.

My JoJo goes through biting fazes at times, and when it is one of those times, I just simply use a handheld perch to move him all around!
I Birdsat the wife's Bongo this weekend and I never hold him directly! This weekend, was the first time ever, he placed his beak on my chest and asked me to scratch his head!

Sorry, but you have some very confusing contradictions in your threads!
From today.....

Today when I had Echo out of his cage, he played a lot by himself on his play stand. He's getting more and more used to his play stand. And even now and then he flies to me for a bit of playtime with toys. He does get nippy though when he really wants something to go his way. Like he was sitting on my friends neck, licking his neck, and then being also a bit too rough. but my friend couldn't get him off or to step on his hand. So he asked my help. I tried to distract Echo with a toy and let him step on my hand. The first few times he nipped me and kept licking and biting my friend's neck, but then he stepped on my hand while beaking my hand a bit rough. I wasn't sure what to do, whether to praise him or not. Because he did step up like I wanted, but he also bit me at the same time. I decided to ignore it and let him step up on my other hand, and when he did that, I rewarded him by giving a treat. I hope that was the right thing to do.

 

[Pilaf]

Sometimes it goes well with Echo, and sometimes suddenly not, then he suddenly bites or gets to excited with beaking. I still have to figure out what it is exactly. I do notice that when there's lots of noises from outside, we live on a busy street, and it's too hot to not have the windows open, that he gets startled easily, so then I do take a step back so that i don't add to the chaos. What exactly do you find contradicting about my threads?

 

[Flboy]

Just reading your two posts, a few minutes apart they do not seem to agree with each other! May easily just be me!! Remember though if your baby thinks there is danger in the area he knows it's his job to warn you and he will warn you by biting you! So the open windows with the loud noises may be the key to what is happening! An out of the blue hard bite from JoJo is always for a reason, my job is to understand and figure it out!

Thing with your friend, typical 'I want what I want'.

 

[Sunnyclover]

Hold his beak gently and tell him"no bite! It hurts Daddy. No no." He'll get it eventually and you can just tell him not to bite before picking him up. He's just scared even though he was friendly at first this can happen. Just teach him you live him even if he bites you sometimes.

 

[Sunnyclover]

Oh also try getting him to step onto a hand held perch or stick. That could help you gage his mood too and just place him somewhere close to you but not near hands or face. He'll realize he should trust you and not to get scared and bite you.

 

[Pilaf]

Thank you all very much.
Flboy: I wrote them a few minutes apart indeed. I don't see myself that they don't agree with each other. I'm sorry. I do find language and explaining things also difficult. I'm autistic and struggle with finding the right words often. This post is mostly about how I feel in general, I'm just afraid to ruin things with my new little feathered friend and I don't want that. I have decided to close the windows though when Echo is out of the cage, because there's just too much noice. Even I get over stimulated, so I bet for a little bird like Echo it can all be very overwhelming.

Sunnyclover: I do hold his beak gently when he bites me, but most of the time he digs down deeper when I do that. I also try to avoid to have my fingers near him but he often climbs towards my hands and then sits on them. Just now he was playing on the couch and I was sitting next to the couch on the ground. He was playing with some foot toys. every now and then I showed him a different toy and he took that out of my hands and started playing with it. Every now and then I also gave him a treat because he was playing so sweet. Then after a while he suddenly climbed of the couch on my hand and bit my hand. I'm still figuring out why that was. I actually think he was just interested in the skin between my thumb and my index finger and wanted to explore. But he got it bleeding. I do keep reinforcing the positive, and I keep telling him that I love him.

 

[Flboy]

Overall, you are doing great! A suggestion, for the next week or so, do all stepping up on to a stick! A good third of the time, this is how I move JoJo around. Why? So that he will never think twice about it! They are smart buggers! You only use the stick when they are in a mood, you get nailed!
Also, remember, you have a very young companion, even he doesn't know what he wants!

 

[Pilaf]

Thank you very much Flboy!
I was wondering....what do you do when JoJo climbs towards your hands? Like when he's playing somewhere and flies towards your hand for example? Do you ever handle him with your hands? Or not at all?
Echo often sits on my hands while playing with a foot toy, and he's doing fine while he's playing with something or when i give him treats. When he drops his toy when he's not interested in it anymore suddenly, and when I don't give him a treat, he turns toward my skin.

 

[Flboy]

I absolutely handle JoJo a lot! But when I first had him for almost a year he was terrified of any hands! I can flip him on his back, and play with his wings! But I must respect his comfort zone! When I put him in an uncomfortable position, the rule that I follow is counting to three and I always let him up when I get to number three! He has learned this and when he starts to feel really uncomfortable and I count he just waits for me to reach three! Your guy is just young!

 

[Pilaf]

JoJo sounds like sweetheart as well
Echo is indeed still very young, and he needs time. I'll make sure I go at his pace.

 

[Sunnyclover]

Don't worry because bas Flboy says he is very very young and can learn super easily at this point. It's when they are older and used to their behavior and doing a certain behavior that it's harder to change it. Fallow Flboy advice about stepping up to a perch/stick for a while to move from place to place and treat him for doing the correct behavior and ignore the wrong behavior. He'll get it. In the meantime I understand it's hard to get bite and bleed all the time. It will get better. Don't get your heart broken just yet...all parrot bite even mine sweet Ollie!

 

[adz1984]

Often newly homed parrots will seem very friendly and laid back but in reality they are shocked from the move, they will settle in overtime and loosen up which is when you will start to see more emotion eg: biting, screaming etc. Take it easy for the first couple weeks and go at the parrots pace to avoid unnecessary stress which in turn could lead to bigger problems.

Video below shows my bird during her first week home, a couple weeks later that same bird was lunging at me and was willing to fight me till death! now months later we are bonded and shes very sweet again.

[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UfkYMdXrcUU"]cute alexandrine baby - YouTube[/ame]

 

[LordTriggs]

Overall, you are doing great! A suggestion, for the next week or so, do all stepping up on to a stick! A good third of the time, this is how I move JoJo around. Why? So that he will never think twice about it! They are smart buggers! You only use the stick when they are in a mood, you get nailed!
Also, remember, you have a very young companion, even he doesn't know what he wants!

very true. The perch I dubbed the step-up perch was stored in Rio's cage in the corner nearest where I would be so he would go on it a lot so it became second nature to him. Made things very easy to get him in the cage in a hurry

 

[Pilaf]

This morning it went totally wrong. I let him step on a perch to get him out of his cage. He played a bit on his play stand and also with me on the couch with different foot toys. Every now and then he climbed on my hand and wanted to nibble I distracted him with a toy, and every time he started to nibble too hard I said in a firm way 'no' and he let go. I was constantly praising him for playing so sweet when he was playing really nicely, and giving him a treat every now and then. After a while he climbed back on my hand again and started to explore and nibble. When he did it too rough I said 'no', he stopped but shortly after that he bit me hard in another spot on my hand. I again said a firm 'no', and I put him down and walked away. But he immediately flew to me and started to bite me in my neck and my ears. I kept saying 'no' but he started to bite everywhere he could reach. I tried to stay calm but it was hurting so much. While saying 'no' I tried to make him step up but he just bit my hands, and then hard in my neck again. It just wouldn't stop and I couldn't get him of me. Eventually I managed to get him on my hand but he kept biting me. Then I put him in his cage and went to another room to let my emotions out. I'm totally covered in bite marks and welts. I probably did a lot of things wrong but I really tried to follow everybody's advice. I think it might be good to have him clipped, just for now, so that he can't fly back to me when I put him down after biting me. It was probably wrong to put him in his cage also but I just didn't know what to do. It totally escalated.

 

[LordTriggs]

what happened to keeping him in the cage for a few days?

I never used to walk away from Rio. I stood next to him but looked elsewhere, they struggle to go directly up. Now you're going too fast clearly, you did something to make him attack like that and I largely think you're not acting calm when he is out and are constantly fussing around him. Now to us this seems okay but to him it's scary. A proper bite/attack is a last resort and you will have so many warnings before they do it, it's your job to find out what those signs are.

Now I'm only going to say it one last time. Back in the day for a few days, reset your parameters, train at stepping up with a perch do not let him on your body in this time, he has to step up, first time every time before he can come out, once out do not fuss around him, or constantly handle him. He needs to explore, at most take him on the perch for a tour of the house. No chasing after him or constantly staring at him it will make him uneasy. If he flies to your shoulder you use the perch to get him to step up. If he bites you in this time you can put him in a different room and close the door for 5 minutes. Do not shout yelp or flail, that's fun to him and will train him to bite. The biggest point above all else is SLOW DOWN. You have 30 years with this guy take your time and let him set the pace at which you work.

I personally wouldn't give a toy during that time to distract him. It will more than likely teach "if you bite, you get a toy". They don't understand distraction they work on a 1 to 1 reward system. He chomps a toy appears, seems like a good deal really. In the time they start nibbling too hard or fully bite they need to have their attention on you to learn the lesson that what they did is bad.

If you just go and get him out again tomorrow and plop him on your shoulder then I cannot help you

 

[Pilaf]

I was actually quite calm, but I did give him a lot of praise and rewards constantly when he was playing. I think that was too much for him. When people tell me 'praise and reward him a lot when he's playing sweetly or showing positive behaviour' I took that very literally and I kept talking to Echo and rewarding him constantly. I never put him on my shoulder myself, he always climbs towards my shoulder himself.

But things are better now. I have been to my avian vet with Echo and she showed to me how to handle Echo. I always learn a lot more if people show me instead of explain with words. I also realized that I waited too long with saying 'no' when he was biting me. The avian vet, who's specialized in parrot's behaviour etc, told me to respond a lot sooner, and also to immediately reward him when he corrects his body language. She also said to only be with him for 2 to 5 minutes at the time, instead of letting him be on me for almost an hour each time. I have learned a lot and since then Echo hasn't even tried to bite me once.

 

[Pilaf]

By the way LordTriggs: I do understand about backing off and totally slow down. I read somewhere that baby conures need a lot of attention and like everything else I took that as well very literally. So for an hour each time I gave him constant attention. I mean to do everything well and in Echo's best interest. But I do realize that I made some mistakes.

 

[Sunnyclover]

I think it would help A LOT if you got him clipped to train him and have him learn to rely on you for things. This usually helps a lot. Then when his flight feathers grow back in you guys should have an established bond. Some people are against clipping but I think it can be amazing for training when you 1st get a baby bird. They need to know your the boss!

 

[LordTriggs]

I think it would help A LOT if you got him clipped to train him and have him learn to rely on you for things. This usually helps a lot. Then when his flight feathers grow back in you guys should have an established bond. Some people are against clipping but I think it can be amazing for training when you 1st get a baby bird. They need to know your the boss!

I will say there's no proof that clipping helps with training, it just forces them to use you for transport. It has helped some birds with training but with others they can revert back to the old ways when the flights grow back. I will also say for the first 6 months I don't think any bird should be clipped as that's when the muscles develop and they learn how to fly properly without crashing

I'm on the fence with clipping, I don't think it should be used for behavior but in a case where the bird is in danger of hurting themselves it may be a way to go about things.

The issue here though isn't flying away or running but bite training. Both parrot and owner need to go through the training. I'd suggest going through the threads of macaws for Birdman666's lessons on fear of beaks and training. They definitely apply to smaller beaks as Inger with her Parrotlet will attest to, conures also are close macaw relatives so many training tips for macaws help with the tiny conure cousins