CAG first vet appointment, was I scammed?

[plumsmum2005]

Hey guys!

I got some vitamin supplements online, to sort of make sure he's getting enough, if there's anything else you guys recommend to keep my bird healthy let me know!

The one thing I'm worried about the most is him trusting me after all of this, it seems like he's been really pissed at me, hasn't been talking at all.

Just a FYI that too much can be as bad as too little hun. I had a few really stressful times with Plum and felt like you do 'he hates me' but you know what I think it made our bond stronger, I think he realised I would take care of him, the lack of talking could be through feeling unwell?

 

[saganismyhero]

The issue is just making sure he's getting enough vitamin a to start reversing the damage already done, but I hear you, I won't be supplementing too much.

I hope so, he is good for a bit, and then nips and nips, it really feels like he isn't bonding with me, but hopefully it gets better.

 

[SailBoat]

Who the Parrot Bonds with in the family should never be a concern, as long as the goal is a developed Trust Bond. Socializing and expanding relationships is level two. That involves interactions with everyone in the family. Level two goal is assuring that 'when needed' anyone can move the Parrot.

 

[saganismyhero]

it's just me, so he really has no choice haha

 

[wrench13]

I always say the fastest way to a parrots heart is thru his stomach ( or crop as the case may be). try figuring our his favorite treat the one you know he loves! And that becomes your ambassador to his liking you. When you walk by his cage, drop a piece in his food cup, every time. Offer it to him when you interact. With Greys it might take some mental interaction too, they are so introspective. Try playing some games with him. Peek a boo, hiding the treat, What is This, engage him mentally.

 

[saganismyhero]

REALLY TOUGH MORNING.

My fear is that all of this is just going to make him hate me long term, this morning I had to put gloves on to hold him down to give him his medicine, and he was NOT happy, it was the first time he really tried to dig into my skin but I had the avian gloves on so I was fine, but if it was my arm, I would be in the emergency room.

I'm scared i'm investing so much time and effort and MONEY (over 5k at this point) on this bird, and he will always hate me because of these first few weeks (not that it changes me wanting to help him). I feel like I've depleted my birdie bank and a face dive is coming soon. Really upset you guys.

The bird could die without this medication, but giving it to him is like absolute torture for him. I even bought the little funnel at a bird store to just sit it in his mouth to deliver the medication, and he fights me, so I have to hold him down. We aren't close enough for all of these bad experiences. I've only had him 11 days. He was kept in the cage 24/7 for 3 years of his life, this is his first interaction with people, and he's also learning how to fly, and he keeps flying away to avoid me and then crash landing because he has no idea what he's doing. Should I have the vet clip him a little until he feels safe with me? (SOMETHING I REALLY DO NOT WANT TO DO).

Also, I can't just ignore him to wait until he calms down, there is a strict time interval for this medication, and because I work in surgery in the mornings. I don't have the time in the mornings to sit around and wait for him to just relax, and he hasn't been pleased with me since the first vet appointment, so it feels like he will never calm down anyway. He's always pinning at me, bowing down, raising his feathers, no matter what I do, even when I try and give him his favorite treat. He will literally go for my finger, and not the treat, and mind you, he has only been getting veggies and pellets, so his desire for a treat should definitely be high since he's so used to just seeds and peanuts!

I'm really overwhelmed at the moment, and scared, 1. that he will end up dying from this, and 2. that he will never like me/bond with me.

 

[plumsmum2005]

Hi hun I know exactly how you are feeling, been there, got the tee-shirt. My personal feeling is that the gloves are gonna be real scary and not something I have heard of using over here. If it is necessary then I use a towel not gloves. There are some factions that maybe will come out and set fire to me for this? Plum would fight me with everything he had, beak, feet, wings and head. They don't like being medicated. I'm not sure if the meds are a liquid or something else?

Some ideas:

Have you thought of trying to give in a favoured food?

Have you tried to get Sagan to take food or liquid off a small teaspoon? If these are successful then it may help.



Most of all hun please, breathe, relax, it can be stressful and when we get stressed things are usually not the best.

 

[SailBoat]

We common begin our interactions with a new arrival having to provide medications. There is few ways to screw-up any hope for a relationship then to provide medications as part of trying to begin a relationship. BUT, it can be done, As This Too Shall Pass!!!

Gloves, IMHO are problematic as the Parrot connects the glove as being part of you. Surprise, the glove looks like your hand. Towels are a very different shape and as a result are seen as separate. Yes, a fine line, but fine lines are important.

Have your Vet show you the technic for holding your Parrot with a towel. Placement of your hands is a critical part of proper holding /handling.

Having a discussion with your Parrot that you're so very sorry and that your Parrot was such a good girl /boy goes a very long way.

 

[saganismyhero]

Yah I used the towel method before it came down to the gloves.

Also, got the blood results back today. Not good. :’(

 

[Laurasea]

What did you find out?

 

[Laurasea]

I was surprised when I soaked up meds in a small piece of bread, and parrot took, orange hide in small amount of applesauce or oatmeal. But currently with my sick one who isn't eating much, I have to towel

 

[Littleredbeak]

I’ve been in your situation with my recently adopted OWA and IRN.


My IRN I got from a neglected situation with a severely imbedded ankle band and infection. Our crucial bonding periods was spent giving antibiotics, pain med and therapy. After all this when it seems we are making progress she’d get broken blood feathers either from over preening or from growing in wrong due to badly clipped wings or from falling. Anne had bad experiences with people and it shows. And reading article about RNs it seems she maybe a lost cause- as I’d have no chance of a intimate relationship- but reading stories on this forum and others I have faith that Anne and I can one day have a great relationship. The petstore used gloves to handle her and I know when I tried using gloves she’d struggle intently and try to ferociously bite me (her beak is not as big as a AG but it hurts) I found toweling her to be easier on the both of us. So while there are improvements- every little improvement is huge and brings me a lot of joy in my heart . We have set backs too. I keep those amazing stories of others in the back of mind knowing this is just now and in future things will be different. Anne wasn’t a bird who I was looking to get. I came across a bird in a bad situation and knew I had to do everything in my power to help her. From the very expensive ransom to all her medical bills. The only thing, I wish I could changed would have been to get her sooner.

With my OWA, Isabell, she reminds me of your AG. Her back storie is that she was an older woman’s bird, this older woman got sick and Isabell became cage ridden. When the older woman died her husband became financially strapped and sold her to someone then I adopted her. Once I adopted her I took her to the vet because I thought she was sick (kept sneezing and her chest would shake a little)). Because of Anne I knew to find someplace where I would be able to go in with her.- with Anne She went in for the appointments and I had to wait in the car- she had two awful visits where I could hear her screaming in the background of the phone. Back to Isabell - it turned out she had a little fluid in her left lung and needed antibiotics. She wouldn’t speak to me after the appointment but she forgave me as soon as we got home I think she thought I was giving her away. Now I toweled her to give her meds - her meds were unflavored so I’d give her some apple sauce in a syringe as a chaser. Again she’d give me the silent treatment for a couple of hours. Then she figure out the time if if her meds and would hide making it even harder for me to get her out of her cage to give them to her. I tried bribing her and in the beginning she stopped our morning social -me coffee and her sliced apples. Soon her silent treatments would only last 20minutes. . Eventually I found she loved cheese its and after her meds she’d get a single piece of a cheese it- this became her reward). Isabell is pretty friendly and lets me scratcher and spend time with her so I think she had good human interactions prior to me unlike Anne. We are still working on venturing off her cage and trying new perches. While Isabell does have her wings she is pretty clumsy with them because I don’t think she is used to flying.

If your AG was my bird I’d probably keep his wings flighted. I know how Anne having clipped wings has set us back in falling - constantly trying to put pillows and blankets down to cushion her fall. Anne also would be more confident in our interactions because she’d have the ability to fly away. Having clipped wings has added to her being fearful.

Giving medication is a temporary now , you have long term of bonding time in the future. This how I looked at it.

I also have a few holistic bird books one of them is called Holistic bird care by Dr David McCluggage who is a well known holistic avian vet. He talks about the power of flower essences for fearful birds- the one I found safe for birds is called rescue for kids/animals. I’m going to see if it will help Anne. Dr. McCluggage does do tele appointments if you are interested. Both books also talks about offering flowers - I use the avian friendly flowers from my organic teas.

I hope this helps! Wishing you and your AG the best of luck!

Please excuse the mistakes and errors - I typed this out on my phone!

 

[saganismyhero]

He’s certain it’s a tumor, just have to figure out which kind. I appreciate everyone’s support I just feel so emotionally exhausted over all of this. we are going for the biopsy this week.

 

[Laurasea]

awww dang! Sorry its so serious. Is he still eating, and seemingly good otherwise? I hope biopsy goes smoothly, and there us treatment options. My full sympathy on hiw stressful this is.

 

[noodles123]

Is there a possibility it is just benign?

 

[saganismyhero]

So just got off the phone with the vet a little while ago, he talked to some colleagues, and he thinks it may be scar tissue from some kind of trauma. Here's why, AST and CK levels are remarkably high in his blood workup which suggests muscle damage/trauma, white blood cells are normal, everything else appears normal. No organ damage, nothing. Also, these lesions, they are WEIRD, he is stumped. Remember how I said they looked like flagella? well we ruled that out too, he's certain it isn't canker, because he isn't anemic and canker just doesn't look like this! We are doing a biopsy tomorrow, but I REALLY THINK, there may have been some kind of trauma during hand feeding because of the location on the throat and the elevated muscle enzymes. Due to no emergency care, the throat may be consistently healing itself.

I really am hoping it is scar tissue, this would also explain his EXTREME hatred of any medication going into his mouth. LIKE EXTREME. COMPLETE MELTDOWNS.

 

[Laurasea]

Here are some labs explaining
https://www.vetfolio.com/learn/article/interpreting-avian-biochemistry-panels

 

[Laurasea]

Did they send out tests on vitamin levels?
What is the APT?
Creatinine Kinase (CK)
Increased CK levels have been associated with muscle damage associated with neurologic disease, vitamin E and selenium deficiencies, heavy metal toxicity (lead), psittacosis, trauma and intramuscular injections.5 Bacterial contamination is the most likely cause of a decrease in CK levels

 

[saganismyhero]

Did they send out tests on vitamin levels?
What is the APT?
Creatinine Kinase (CK)
Increased CK levels have been associated with muscle damage associated with neurologic disease, vitamin E and selenium deficiencies, heavy metal toxicity (lead), psittacosis, trauma and intramuscular injections.5 Bacterial contamination is the most likely cause of a decrease in CK levels

Aspartate Aminotransferase (AST) probably wrote it wrong, so, when you have elevated AST levels ONLY it usually signifies an issue with your liver, because AST originates from a variety of tissues including liver, heart, skeletal muscle, brain and kidney. When you have significantly high levels of CK and AST, it normally means muscle.


Having elevated levels of both of them is what is leading the vet to think it's trauma related, but he's still unsure.

 

[saganismyhero]

Genuinely terrified Sagan is going to die, ive convinced myself he has PDD, and the vet just hasn’t convinced himself yet. I read an article that Greys with PDD always have elevated AST and CK. So yah, I’m a mess. And I have to have someone else take him because I’m stuck in surgery that was supposed to be over an hour ago. So many people on here talk about their birds dying so easily and quickly and I’m really scared that I won’t be able to cope.

I have grown extremely fond of this bird, and have wanted a grey for so long.

Ugh. Terrified.


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