Does anyone know avian genetic formulas?

[TacoNTiki]

So Tikis breeder said mom is a pineapple gcc and dad is a visual yellow-sided gcc split to pineapple. Tiki is a yellow-sided high red gcc. Does anyone know the formula to determine gender with this info? I.e. if baby is visually yellow-sided it can only be xxx gender, etc?

We have appointment this Thursday to do DNA, but I am just curious as the info on the parents just became available (because I didn't ask until now, haha).

 

[Skittys_Daddy]

Determining gender is more species specific. Certain species can be genetically labeled by coloring or feather patterns while others require DNA sexing because they are sexual monomorphic (no visible difference between the genders). Cockatiels are easy to determine gender if they are pure breds.

I know that suns are sexually monomorphic and from what I have read on green cheeks, they are as well. So I would say the only way to know without invasive techniques is DNA sexing.

Skittles parents both have deep orange. I've wondered if he has any red factor in him but to my knowledge he doesn't as the breeder never indicated he did.

 

[41Gryphon]

Determining gender is more species specific. Certain species can be genetically labeled by coloring or feather patterns while others require DNA sexing because they are sexual monomorphic (no visible difference between the genders). Cockatiels are easy to determine gender if they are pure breds.

I know that suns are sexually monomorphic and from what I have read on green cheeks, they are as well. So I would say the only way to know without invasive techniques is DNA sexing.

Skittles parents both have deep orange. I've wondered if he has any red factor in him but to my knowledge he doesn't as the breeder never indicated he did.

Not entirely true. Some color mutation genes are only passed along one parent or X/Y chromosome, meaning that if the baby has that gene then they can only be one gender. I think this applies to cinnamon GCCs (a vast majority of cinnamons are females, I think) and many other mutations in many other bird species. It's just too complicated for me to remember. :09:

 

[Skittys_Daddy]

Well I was referring to the pure breds. Like the 'normals' of the tiels. I'm not to familiar with different types of a particular species, ie pieds, cinnamons, lutinos etc. So I wouldn't dare to comment on them anyways.

 

[SilverSage]

Birds with different mutations are still purebred. In parrots, a non purebred bird would be a hybridized bird, not a bird with a different color. For example, two different species of macaw being mixed to make new colors is hybridizing, but a pied cockatiel is 100% cockatiel and not mixed with anything else.

Both yellow sided and cinnamon (the combination of which is called pineapple in gccs) are sex linked genes, so using them to determine the gender of the baby is a very easy method when the colors of the parents are known. Unfortunately in this case, both parent carry both mutations, so you can't determine the sex of this individual bird by the parents.

 

[Skittys_Daddy]

I always wondered exactly how hybrids work.

Do you know what causes red factor suns? They are the only other type of sun conure I've heard of. Not sure if sundays are real or not (sun and jenday).

I guess I should have used the term 'normals' instead of purebred. For example, Peaches is a normal grey hen. I just don't like using the term 'normal' since it implies that others are not normal which is not true.

 

[JerseyWendy]

Here is a very good article about Red Factor Sun Conures: http://www.birdcompanions.com/FCA The Red Factor Sun Conure Color Mutation.pdf

And yes, "Sundays" are absolutely real. They've been around for quite some time now.
http://www.parrotforums.com/conures/3324-do-i-have-jenday-sun-sunday.html

 

[Aquila]

I always wondered exactly how hybrids work.

Do you know what causes red factor suns? They are the only other type of sun conure I've heard of. Not sure if sundays are real or not (sun and jenday).

I guess I should have used the term 'normals' instead of purebred. For example, Peaches is a normal grey hen. I just don't like using the term 'normal' since it implies that others are not normal which is not true.

I had my Sunday for a while, she now lives with a good friend of mine. This was her adult coloring, she kept the partial green wings of a Jenday, but had a lighter head like a Sun.
The red factor suns are selectively bred for the expression of the red color. There are African Greys that are bred for Red factor as well, which is a normal genetic mutation.

Easiest way to explain it is like roses, you might have a red rose bush, but you get the occasional white rose. It's still the same plant, but it's a natural absence of the red pigment.

I posted over in the breeding section about my two green cheeks and possible color mutations, since my female is normal, male is Pineapple (Cinnamon and Yellow Sided visual)

You can google some of the possible combinations and results, but it still confuses the heck out of me. If you don't know the bird's familial history it makes it that much more difficult to determine gender by appearance.

 

[Skittys_Daddy]

Thanks for the link JerseyWendy. I was not aware of the dark red metabolism problem.

@Aquila I think it confuses all of us. LOL.

Skittles only has red around his eyes and other parts of his head and it's not a 'dark red', so I hope he doesn't have bad genes. He has a lot of orange though. But his orange and his greens are 'neon' in coloring (except for the olive green parts of the wing and tail feathers).

 

[JerseyWendy]

Tell you what, Skittles is absolutely GORGEOUS!!!! He's literally glowing!!! Magnificent bird, he truly is. :smile015:

 

[Skittys_Daddy]

Thank you JerseyWendy. I do have to agree with you there. LOL.

He does glow, that is true. I wear progressive lenses and have VERY bad vision but I can still spot him across the room without my glasses!

 

[SilverSage]

The correct term is normal, lol, but you can also say "wild type" to correctly denote the color that the wild cousins are.


Sunday's are a hybrid of Jendays and sun, so they are not a pure species.

Thanks for the article! I live in Hawaii, but I did not know that the gene was developed here. It makes sense as developing new mutations usually involves some level of inbreeding, and that runs rampant on these islands.