Eclectus Expert. Please HELP!!!

[GaleriaGila]

Eclectus parrots are just so challenging to raise. I really admire those of you who take them on. I remember when 30+ years ago, Harrison's pellets were new (so was the Rb) and Bird Talk Magazine advised lots of chile peppers. Also, I guess Patagonian biology is pretty low-maintenance, too. My avian vet jokes that some birds seem like Ferraris and some are more like Ford Trucks.

It's such a blessing to have this Community, with so much ready knowledge.

 

[Owlet]

Take a step back and start over with Kise. She was probably very spooked and she's young so I am sure this is the first time she really been scared and doesn't know how to handle it. Look up guides and what not to building trust and start there. I know it's hard to hear but she likely sees you as a scary thing right now, but I 100% believe with just a little trust building she will come around.

 

[Squeekmouse]

I don't have an Eclectus so I can't give specific advice on that front. You're getting excellent advice from the others on the food though, so you're covered.

For my part, I agree with what the others said about the stuff you bought earlier. Pistachios are a great treat (Unsalted!!), and the seed mixes can be sprouted or sprinkled on chop. Avi-cakes would make a nice treat reward also. Beyond that, I gotta say it looks like Kise is very, very loved! You clearly make a huge effort to provide her with all she needs and all you can afford. Kudos for that!

Regarding your typography aesthetics... I can see how some might find it difficult to read or that it comes across as shouting... but at the same time I thought it was cute/funny. Besides, self-expression in a harmless, creative way is a good thing. I also love your signature about Love.

As far as the recent troubles, Owlet said it all wonderfully. Just go back to how you would treat her as a brand new bird, move slowly and speak softly and sweetly. Offer treats. Don't push or force her to accept you. I'm sorry she bit you and you had that bad reaction, don't beat yourself up too much though, it's hard to resist that instinct to swat at something that lunges for your face. I sympathize!

Good luck my friend!

 

[HEEDLESS]

Just a while ago. I put my hands into her cage after opening her door.. WELL.. She attacked by bitten my hands/fingers. I just let that be and keep on placing my hand by her chest.. She stepped up and I placed her on her T-perch. She flew to me because of the Sunflower seeds.. Then I place her on the floor with toys; she ran around playing while I sat with her. The moment I moved my hands, she attacked my hands without stopping. It's just my hands....

WELL. I think it 's better to give her away to a good family who will love her then having this lock up in her cage, and will causing huge problem of stress and worst behavior then she already having scared of my hands/fingers

I want the best for her... And I hope if the trainer can fix this. I can have the trainer coming but I really don't know that will fix the problem.


I REALLY AM HOPELESS and NEED HELP!!!!!! **SOB**





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[Owlet]

Again, don't give up on her, look up guys to trust training and start there. She's not a lost cause.

 

[Anansi]

Whoa, whoa, whoa. Easy, Heedless. Just take a few deep breaths and take a step back. It isn't time yet to start contemplating giving Kise away. Remember, with birds most behavioral fixes aren't overnight.

First, remember that you can't allow yourself to interpret her behavior the way you would a fellow human. Sure, your feelings are hurt. But her lashing out at you is not the same thing as a person lashing out at you. She's not doing it to be hurtful. She doesn't "hate" you. There's something going on with her and she's reacting in a way that is completely natural for her given her hard-wired instincts. Nothing more, nothing less.

If she's indeed only one, she's too young for hormones to be the issue. Owlet's suggestion about keeping an eye out for anything that may have changed is a good one. (Jolly once held a grudge against my niece for around 6 months for a one-time mistake of painting her fingernails lilac. Flew in a dead panic the instant she'd show her face every time! For half a year! Lol!) But know what I noticed from your posts? A lot of this behavior seems to be happening around her cage. It's definitely not too early for her to begin exhibiting territorial behaviors. These behaviors tend to be especially strong and... enthusiastic... when it comes to female ekkies. Why? Because in the wild, the female ekkies are the ones who defend the nest hollows against all comers ranging from competing cockatoos to snakes. So they are hard-wired to be somewhat badass.

On top of this, keep in mind that we, as human beings, tend to miss the majority of avian body language. I've observed the subtle, seemingly telepathic, communication between Jolly and Maya. I consider myself decent at reading bird body language, but he definitely sees things that I don't. I believe that the things we see are really the tip of the iceberg. So sometimes when we get bitten, I truly believe it is a bite out of exasperation. Basically their last resort. (We must seem either really obnoxious or mind-numbingly dense to them most times.)

So all this said, what to do about it? First, stop sticking your hands into her cage while she's in it. Don't put yourself in situations where she will feel compelled to bite you. Last thing you want is for her to become comfortable with the idea of biting you as a means of communication. Have her climb up onto a stick/portable perch from within her cage rather than your hand. Once she's on the stick, try taking her to another room out of sight of the cage. If she stops exhibiting hostile behavior when she can't see her cage, you have your answer as to the why.

Targeting also works well, here. it keeps your hands out of biting range until it's safe for you.

Here are links that you may find helpful. The first helps with identifying the cause of the biting. (Territorial behavior is the most likely suspect in my opinion at the moment, but keep an open mind for other possibilities. Not to mention that, since you accidentally swatted her away, the trust may have been temporarily damaged.) And the second is for bite-pressure training.

http://www.parrotforums.com/training/57935-brainstorming-biting-parrots.html
http://www.parrotforums.com/training/63988-bite-pressure-training.html

Don't give up, my friend. I see your love for Kise in all of your posts. She's testing you at the moment, but you can weather this storm. It's a marathon, not a sprint. Just be consistent and patient.

 

[HEEDLESS]

Whoa, whoa, whoa. Easy, Heedless. Just take a few deep breaths and take a step back. It isn't time yet to start contemplating giving Kise away. Remember, with birds most behavioral fixes aren't overnight.

First, remember that you can't allow yourself to interpret her behavior the way you would a fellow human. Sure, your feelings are hurt. But her lashing out at you is not the same thing as a person lashing out at you. She's not doing it to be hurtful. She doesn't "hate" you. There's something going on with her and she's reacting in a way that is completely natural for her given her hard-wired instincts. Nothing more, nothing less.

If she's indeed only one, she's too young for hormones to be the issue. Owlet's suggestion about keeping an eye out for anything that may have changed is a good one. (Jolly once held a grudge against my niece for around 6 months for a one-time mistake of painting her fingernails lilac. Flew in a dead panic the instant she'd show her face every time! For half a year! Lol!) But know what I noticed from your posts? A lot of this behavior seems to be happening around her cage. It's definitely not too early for her to begin exhibiting territorial behaviors. These behaviors tend to be especially strong and... enthusiastic... when it comes to female ekkies. Why? Because in the wild, the female ekkies are the ones who defend the nest hollows against all comers ranging from competing cockatoos to snakes. So they are hard-wired to be somewhat badass.

On top of this, keep in mind that we, as human beings, tend to miss the majority of avian body language. I've observed the subtle, seemingly telepathic, communication between Jolly and Maya. I consider myself decent at reading bird body language, but he definitely sees things that I don't. I believe that the things we see are really the tip of the iceberg. So sometimes when we get bitten, I truly believe it is a bite out of exasperation. Basically their last resort. (We must seem either really obnoxious or mind-numbingly dense to them most times.)

So all this said, what to do about it? First, stop sticking your hands into her cage while she's in it. Don't put yourself in situations where she will feel compelled to bite you. Last thing you want is for her to become comfortable with the idea of biting you as a means of communication. Have her climb up onto a stick/portable perch from within her cage rather than your hand. Once she's on the stick, try taking her to another room out of sight of the cage. If she stops exhibiting hostile behavior when she can't see her cage, you have your answer as to the why.

Targeting also works well, here. it keeps your hands out of biting range until it's safe for you.

Here are links that you may find helpful. The first helps with identifying the cause of the biting. (Territorial behavior is the most likely suspect in my opinion at the moment, but keep an open mind for other possibilities. Not to mention that, since you accidentally swatted her away, the trust may have been temporarily damaged.) And the second is for bite-pressure training.

http://www.parrotforums.com/training/57935-brainstorming-biting-parrots.html
http://www.parrotforums.com/training/63988-bite-pressure-training.html

Don't give up, my friend. I see your love for Kise in all of your posts. She's testing you at the moment, but you can weather this storm. It's a marathon, not a sprint. Just be consistent and patient.

Thank you Sir.... Thank you Sir.

I will do my best to watch those links you gave.. .and once again.. THANK YOU SIR.​

 

[noodles123]

I don't have an Eclectus--I have an 11 year old Umbrella Cockatoo. How long have you had her? To clean my cage, I don't have to come in contact with the bird (all tray and food dishes slide out)...Not that it matters for me at this point- I always have my hands in there...but given the situation, you might consider a different cage if yours is not built in such a way that you can remove components without contacting the bird's space with your hands.
I have been bitten a lot over time (very rarely these days)...if you have had her under a year, I would say you are rushing it (in terms of the fatalistic outlook--and even then, do not put her down...)... My U2 is very very very nice with me now, but that was not always the case. If I were you, I would step back and try to build trust- if your bird understands that a bite doesn't work, then that often works too, but it might also help if you could get a different cage with sliding trays and grates, as gloves etc can scare some birds). Parrots take a freakish amount of time and calm persistence. Think of trust as a bank---by reacting to the bite with a slap, you withdrew some trust (don't know how much "money" you had in the bank at that time). That having been said, you probably still have more "money" in the bank, as you feed your bird etc. At this point, I would start building/saving before making your next move (aside from daily essentials).

I would spend at least 3 months building trust before attempting to force handle--unless there is no choice...If your bird wants to come to you etc, then good....but at that point, if there is enough trust to repeatedly step up, then there is enough trust for him/her to return his/her cage (although it make take multiple, calm attempts--calm and persistent=key)...Only push things as a last resort, and always do so gently etc--avoid force at all times and never hit or yell at your bird.

WORST CASE SCENARIO (aside from "putting the bird down")--I know people don't like gloves (nor do I---unless you have waited etc), but in some cases, people have better confidence with them, and that is better than putting your bird down. Yes, they might scare/surprise your parrot..but it sounds like you are terrified right now. If she is really terrified, use them as little as possible...It could hurt trust more....I think that the biggest issue with gloves are: A) that they confuse your hands with objects, B) They don't look like your hands, C) Some birds have previous trauma that is associated with people wearing gloves and D) they produce inauthentic reactions to bites etc (as ignoring may help at times)..... Just remember..trust is key.


Furthermore, you must learn to read even the most subtle of body language cues, in order to avoid providing your bird with extra opportunities to see you react and/or practice biting.

 

[GaleriaGila]

Darling Lily, I have given up most use of my hands... it hurts my pride, but... the Rb just seems to want to relate to my head, so that's what we do. By way of tedious review...
I have a treatise of sorts, on "difficult" birds...
Difficult Birds

May I add some thoughts about expectations? I hope I don't sound preach-y. I also want to make it clear that I completely support all the great advice on training!
My bird is "difficult", and so I have expressed these thoughts so often that I made a cut-and-paste (below). Apologies to those of you who've heard it a zillion times!

My bird is pretty awful. He's a fun mimic and a real character, but...
Even after all these years, I sometimes find myself putting myself or my bird down... stuff like...
I SHOULDN'T HAVE TO PUT UP WITH THIS OR THAT.
WHY CAN'T HE BE SWEET AND NICE, LIKE THOSE OTHER BIRDS?
PEOPLE NEVER UNDERSTAND WHY I PUT UP WITH THIS.
Stuff like that.

Since he's fully flighted, the ONLY way I get him into the cage is to toss a chile pepper in and he flaps in after it. So food reward is a necessity for me. Time-out doesn't exist in the Rb's kingdom.
But the Rb is a parrot... in his particular case, one generation out of the wild.
I do all the right things, as much/well as I can, but in the end, I just LOVE my bird,
Some parrots are SO SWEET, some are NOT. I'm a bit JEALOUS of those successes.
I have lessened my psychological and physical wounds over the decades... not because I've changed the bird, but I have changed me. And a lot of that has involved giving up on a lot of my desires/expectations. After years of battle, I surrendered.
Consequently, I have a Tazmanian Devil on my hands. I love him. I have no complaints, really. He's HIMSELF. And I'm MYSELF. And the result... check my Signature for videos. etc., if you like.
BUT THERE'S LOTS OF GOOD TRAINING ADVICE HERE... DO READ AND LEARN AND DO YOUR BEST!
Over the years, I have sometimes been very embarassed/downhearted/sad about having a pet that was so... out of my control. But it is my choice to indulge and adore him.
Finally, I accepted that I have an amazing half-wild being who shares my life! It's magic enough for me!

Parrot-owners usually wind up determining their own personal comfort level with various behaviors, and it's okay to be okay with that.

I love the little creep, and he's all mine. I keep him safe and he keeps me terrorized.

Take heart, dearest, take heart.

WHATEVER happens, I (and we) are WITH YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! And Kise!

 

[HEEDLESS]

Updating on Kise behavior~


THANK EVERYONE for your concerning and supporting~ **HUGS***



This morning, she called out to me, she stepped up and flew to me.. I fed her with lotsa kisses then off to work.

I got home awhile ago, she climbed right to her door. (She was locked in her cage) I opened her cage, she came right to me, climbed on me and my head.


I made foods for her, she ate and flew to me, gave kisses....

Trainer not required/needed.

Here are pix I just took...


She has had stressed enough for few days to the point that she has gone bald.... Look at the BALD SPOT on her head....

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GaleriaGila


THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR THE DRAWING... I LOVE IT!!!!



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[GaleriaGila]

It was my joy. Thank you so much for the precious pictures.

 

[Squeekmouse]

I'm so happy to read that things got better with Kise... and I LOVED seeing the beautiful picture Gale gave you!! That's just wonderful!

 

[GaleriaGila]

Oooooooh, Squeekie, friend, I didn't give it to her. She commissioned it. But THANK YOU all the same! I just had to clear that up!

 

[HEEDLESS]

Is that Kise standing there??????



https://mail.google.com/mail/u/0/#inbox/FMfcgxwBVqQBrzdgGQjsFdDqrSFcfxWM

Sadly, Kise didn't like any of the birdie breads I made... Not at all.

I bought all kinds for her to try out.. took time to baked and nothing interesting her.



Dose anyone has problem that you beloved birds not eating the bread????

THANKS..

**CHUUUUUUUUUU**




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[Owlet]

That's kind of odd, most birds love it honestly. Lincoln goes crazy for it... Maybe mix it with her current food?

 

[Anansi]

My birds would gnaw through a concrete wall to get at any kind if bread, so they don't qualify. Lol!

How is sweet Kise doing, btw?

 

[HEEDLESS]

My birds would gnaw through a concrete wall to get at any kind if bread, so they don't qualify. Lol!

How is sweet Kise doing, btw?

**LOL***



Thank you Sir. Kise is doing fine and well... BUT.. She won't eating much on the chopped and TOPS pellets. She just look at the chopped and turned other direction.

She will stuff herself for noodles/rice/Chunk-foods. She has lost 15grams for the last two weeks. I took her to her vet and he gave her VIT A injection/SC IV infusion/antibiotic injection; he didn't recommend regarding her foods.

Maybe I did things really wrong on the chops/bread/cooking.


She ate her TOPS but not much. I been feeding her scramble eggs mixed with sweetcorn at night...



Other than that, she is doing fine/well/spoiled brat..


I think I need help on how to do the bread cooking etc...


If anyone willing to help and send express mail your cooking overnight to me.. I will gladly reimbursement you for all the hard work.


THANK YOU VERY MUCH and VERY MUCH APPRECIATE.


**CHUUUUUUUUU**


Lily​

 

[chris-md]

Has kise still been on her best behavior??

It’s entirely possible and even likely she doesn’t recognize the bread as food. Best approach is to give her reason to rout through it. Let her see you stuff some nuts into the finished product. She’ll dig in going after the nuts, taking some bread in as she does.

I’ve used this approach so many times...got Parker eating papaya this way

 

[HEEDLESS]

Has kise still been on her best behavior??

It’s entirely possible and even likely she doesn’t recognize the bread as food. Best approach is to give her reason to rout through it. Let her see you stuff some nuts into the finished product. She’ll dig in going after the nuts, taking some bread in as she does.

I’ve used this approach so many times...got Parker eating papaya this way

Yes Sir, she has been good girl; just bite here and there a little when she is in her cage... ^_^

Thank you sir. I will do as you said regarding the approaching with nuts. Will bake one in the morning with nuts and see if she willing to eat.

I have got the best picky eater ever....



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[chris-md]

Glad to hear it!

To be clear, bake first. Then let her watch you stuff the nuts in.