Family considering getting a parrot. So many questions. Help!

[Cambios]

I will try not to post a huge novel, but we have many questions and want to make the right, smart decision.

Quick family info: Mom and Dad (me), 2 daughters (ages 12 and 8). Everyone in the family loves animals. We have a 4 year old corgi and a hedgehog. Older daughter dreams of being a zoologist and like me (dad) she is fearless with animals and animals just seem to love us. Wife loves animals but never got to have any as a kid so she is always a little more cautious. Youngest daughter is also often timid around animals, though she loves them, and she absolutely adores birds. She is obsessed with them. She draws them. Talks about them. Notices them everywhere in the world.

We have been considering a bird for about a year. We went to our local independent pet shop recently to look and learn more, and nearly came home with an extremely friendly Panama Amazon that fell in love with our older daughter. It perched on her for 2 solid hours and even nuzzled into the crook of her arm to take a nap.

We decided to be smart and head home and give this more thought. We didn't want to make a decision too much based on emotion. We also didn't know if our local pet shop was the best place to buy a bird, or if the price was appropriate ($1,600).

We are going to another pet shop/breeder tomorrow. They do not have any Panama Amazons, but they have a Blue Fronted Amazon ($1,200) and some Double Yellow Amazons ($1,800), and other types of birds/parrots.

How our bird would fit in our life: We are a busy family. We own our own business (a video game company) and our kids have a lot of activities. If appropriate for our bird, we would take it with us to the office since it is our company and we have that kind of flexibility. We already bring our dog to the office. I know our kids would play with it most days at home as well.

Our kids have never gotten tired/bored of any pet we had - not even fish. The hedgehog was for our oldest daughter and 3 years later she still plays with the hedgehog almost every day.

What we are hoping for in a bird: We want a bird that is intelligent, can learn interesting things if we work with him/her a lot, is lovable/friendly and likes to be held/petted/nuzzled. Speaking is wonderful and fun but not our primary concern (maybe that would change once we started teaching our bird things). We would like to feel a strong connection with our bird, if that makes sense. We want another member of our silly family. I think we would rather it not be one of the really big birds like a Macaw or Cockatoo.

Questions:

1) With all that ton of information, what do you think? Are we looking at the right kind of bird for our family? We are heavily looking at the Amazons because of their size, personality, intelligence, and speaking ability.

2) Are the prices we are seeing reasonable? We are in Kentucky, so I would expect things would be cheaper than NY, California, Texas, Florida, etc.

3) Does it sound like we are looking at the right places to get a bird? I am wary of online places even though their prices are about half what we are seeing locally. I am worried they aren't putting a high priority on the health and early development of their birds, but that's just my assumption.

4) Is it a problem that we have a dog? She is insanely friendly and won't even chase wild bunnies outside if I call her to stay with me. She is very submissive and treats all people and animals as if they are her friend.

5) Is it a problem that we have a hedgehog?

Thanks,

 

[SilverSage]

That's a lot of questions; good for you!
1)I have never owned an Amazon, so I will mostly leave that to others, but please PLEASE understand that while every bird is an individual, every species is also unique. Getting a Panama is not the same as getting a Double Yellow Headed, so be very careful. I personally love Pionus Parrots, which have been nick-named "Amazon lite." They tend to be calmer, less emotional, etc. In particular I find the Blue-Headed Pionus to be a stunningly beautiful bird as well, and they can learn to talk though unlike Amazons they have a reputation for NOT becoming screamers. Also, don't pass up the smaller birds without checking them out! Green Cheeked Conures are my absolute favorite! They come in many colors, can learn to talk (though many do not), are SUPREMELY snuggly, also tend to be quiet, can easily learn tricks, etc. Conures are commonly referred to as Macaws in Miniature, but do not be confused because there are such things as Mini Macaws, which are actual Macaws not conures. Keep in mind that no bird is guaranteed to talk, and even parakeets can become excellent talkers (go check out Disco the Parakeet in youtube. Seriously, you have to check him out!).


2) Price varies, but PLEASE do NOT buy a large parrot from a pet store. Even if you have to drive 12 hours to go visit one, getting a large bird like that should never ever be done through a retail middle man, and in the end it only serves to jack up the price and lower the pet quality of the bird. Pet stores are NOT nurturing environments, and they are a good place for a pet to catch a disease. If you want a young bird find a reputable breeder (we can help you figure out what is legit and what is a bad idea) and buy from a responsible, knowledgeable person who not only knows how to keep your bird happy and healthy, but is willing to help you do the same. If you dont care if your bird is young or not, look up your local rescue groups - there could be a 20 year old Amazon out there whose owner died, and who would love to come live with you. Added blessing? You get to skip puberty! Puberty is a big, nasty, bity deal with parrots...

3)I think I just answered that. You CAN get a bird from a place like this, and sometimes it works out, but it is a risk. I feel like choosing a new family member should not be done based simply on what is convenient, and that is basically the only "upside" to buying from a pet store.

4) You will have to work with your dog and family and figure out what dynamic works. Some of us have our dogs and birds out at the same time, others cannot do so safely, and ALL of us agree they should not be left unsupervised.

5)the hedgehog is fine, just research and see if any common diseases can be passed between the two of them and see your vet if you are concerned. Speaking of a vet, your new birdy needs an AVIAN vet, not just a vet who sees birds

Welcome! Can't wait to see what new feathered family member comes home with you!


Oh! I was going to add - I would really consider a "quieter" bird than an amazon, and perhaps one with less of a rep for being picky about who is allowed to handle it if you are going to have it at your place of business. I am having visions of a bird in an office screaming so loud the customers are uncomfortable, even if that bird is in a different room and not even unhappy, just yelling for the heck of it, or because he likes the song. It is all well and good to think you are going to take the bird to work with you, but if you choose a bird who cannot continue doing so long term, that bird now has to spend the work day home alone which is not at all ideal

 

[thekarens]

I don't see a problem with picking a zon even if it is going to be at you work. A well socialized zon could fit in very well. I probably would not go with the "hot three" (dyh, bf, yn).

I also don't think there's anything wrong with buying one from a pet store IF they are a quality store that treats their birds right. Unfortunately those kinds of shops aren't that common. Obviously you'd pay more at a shop than direct from a breeder because they have overhead to pay and they are in it to make money.

True panamas aren't as common as some of the other zons so I'd expect to pay a little more for them, but I'm not sure what the average price would be.

 

[Phlox]

You do sound like a good family for an Amazon to me as well. They are all different though, and maybe it's not even totally about species but about individuals, when it really comes down to it.

I have had pet store birds myself (though none of my bigger ones) and honestly, its more about price than anything else. But if you love the bird and in the big scheme the purchase price is just the down payment anyway...I think you should get the bird you love. As long as its healthy and socialized? Who cares where it comes from, IMHO.

 

[Terry57]

I think an Amazon may be a good fit for your family as well. It sounds like that Panama may have just picked you and your family. My Amazons are all rescues, and come with the issues that so many rescues do. However, I have friends with Amazons they got when they were young, and they are great with their families. I think it is awesome that you are doing so much research, and i think that whatever bird you decide on will be a lucky boy or girl.

I feel that birds in pet shops need homes just as much as ones from breeders

 

[RavensGryf]

Hi welcome! As others have said, it's so nice to hear of someone really doing some research "before" getting the bird

My one little concern is that you said you wanted a bird who is "loveable, friendly, loves to be petted, etc., the kids would play with it at home..." Please be aware that especially after sexual maturity, NO parrot (especially males of many species) are going to be 100% reliable when it comes to being even keel in temperament. Also there is a marked breeding seasonal behavior in most species, and Amazons are notorious. Even with a well trained bird, you guys WILL get bit at some point but we know that comes with owning an exotic non-domestic animal right? Also with experience comes learning body language, and learning the particular bird, and how to avoid bites as much as possible.

As Karen (thekarens) put it - as a new bird family, I'd stay away from the Amazons they call the "Hot Three" - Blue Fronted, Double Yellow Headed, Yellow Naped. Of course that's not to say no new bird people with kids have one... Just saying these three (especially males) have a reputation during hormonal periods where they can be especially dangerous, and ideally they might be better in the hands of more experienced people. You can get more information by googling "hot three amazons"

I do think the Panama is a better bet for your family. Especially when it's already shown affinity for someone in your family, that's a good sign . It's not an unreasonable price for a juvenile Panama. Besides, when it comes to a living creature, I wouldn't look at paying a couple hundred more as being a deciding factor. You can 'shop around' and get a good deal on a tv lol, but with a living 'family member' I'd look more at the individual animal itself and how well it likes you (the family). Also, is the shop clean, does the owner seem knowledgable and honest?, do they have a health guarantee, you seem intelligent - price aside, does this seem like you get a good vibe?

 

[Cambios]

Thanks for so many wonderful responses!

Some followups and answers of my own (sorry, long again):

1) We don't know of any breeders in our general vicinity (Lexington, KY) and unfortunately a huge drive somewhere is rarely possible. Our job and life keep us close to home usually, which is great for our pets in the long run but not always great for GETTING a pet. 2-3 hours would be doable for us but not 5-12.

Another thing that made us lean towards the local pet shop (http://www.mostvaluablepets.com/) is they have a lot of contacts with avian vets, groomers, wing clippers, and you can even board your bird with them if you can't take them with you somewhere. That seemed like a good long term relationship.

2) Is there a good database/list of breeders we could look at to find people somewhat close and then have some idea if they are reputable? We've leaned towards these independent pet stores and hybrid breeder/stores with the assumption that at least they have a reputation to care about.

3) Price: This definitely isn't our #1 consideration. In the long run, given their long life spans, the "purchase price" is nigh irrelevant. I have mentioned price only because no matter what it is, I never like feeling that I was taken advantage of. Also, I was just shocked (maybe I shouldn't have been) that online the price of similar breeds was about *half* what we see at pet stores.

4) There seems to be universal agreement to stay away from the hot three (if I am learning the acronyms, the blue fronted, double yellow, and yellow nape). The place we are going today has all three of those and no Panamas. So I will keep that in mind.

5) Rescues and adoption: This sounds interesting, and we would definitely be willing to consider this as an option. What are the issues/concerns here? I am a bit worried about the bonding/socialization issues that people seem to mention. As I read more and more people's stories, it sounds like with the adoptions/resuces you are often looking at 6-12 months before your bird will even step up on your hand. The Panama we were interacting with last night was doing that right there in the store. I swear it acted like it was already part of our family. It was a male, born in May of this year. I told the daughter of the owner they need to give that bird salesman of the year.

6) I think we are all prepared for the fact that biting will happen. We got a hedgehog knowing they will bite early on (to learn your smell) and obviously they are inherently quite prickly little guys. I know that's not exactly the same. We humans have our moods also. If our brid isn't in the mood to play on occasion, that's fine. We can respect its "alone time."

7) Re: our office. We actually make/develop video games (http://www.frogdice.com), so we don't have customers in our office. Our customers are all over the world and download or connect via internet to our games. Our office is mainly 7 people and occasional visitors.

Anything else we should be thinking about or factoring into our decision making?

Thanks so much!

 

[Allee]

It's exciting to see a family that has put in a lot of research before deciding on a new family member.

It's great you have Avian vet care, grooming and boarding facilities lined up for a long term relationship.

I don't have an Amazon, but I've known a few. My dogs' long time vet and family friend has a YNA in his office. The vet doesn't treat avians, but he does board them, that's how he got Jake. Jake had lived with several families and after boarding for two weeks at the vet clinic, his owner begged the vet to keep him. Jake's been greeting customers for a couple of years now and seems to have found his happy place. My Avian vet has a pionous that has a cage in her front office and travels to work with her and back home every day. I think you can make it work.

Sounds like the Panama would be a great fit for your family. Looking forward to hearing what you decide.

 

[Kalidasa]

Just wanted to point out that bonding is not something that just happens with babies, any bird at any age can bond very strongly with anyone. The pros of getting a rescue/rehome adult, is that what you see is what you get. An older bird has been thru its hormonal crazies, where a baby hasn't had that yet, and you have no idea how it will react to it. Many, many birds are re-homed right at the hormonal stage when they cease being cute obedient babies and morph into demanding adults. Many "green" bird owners don't know how to handle it, so they relinquish them. Adult/older birds have absolutely no problem bonding and assimilating into a family dynamic. So I would say, keep it as an option, because in some ways it's better than an infant. The personality is already developed.
A bird is a bird, no matter where it comes from, and all birds on the market are in need of loving homes, so don't let where the bird comes from matter too much. Many excellent, beautiful birds come from seedy breeders/stores. It all depends on the bird--and you. Good luck, your family sounds like a great environment for any bird. Take your time, because it could very well be a lifelong commitment (and joy) I've always been a fan of the bird choosing you, and it sounds like that's what happened. It may(or may not) be a bumpy ride at first, but with patience things have a way if ironing out.

 

[Mango121913]

How far from Huntington WV are you?

 

[SilverSage]

My only real concern with the amazon was the customer issue, so if that is not a problem, it does sound like your home would be a good fit, but again I don't have an amazon.

Any bird can have issues, but not all rescues aree abused. Many of them have simply outlived their owners. Considering the life span of these birds, outliving an owner is very common, and it is sad to see them sit in shelters and rescues waiting for a family but being passed up because they are older. A 20 year ld amazon still has decades of love to offer a new family. If you don't want to spend a year just getting a bird to step up, simply do not adopt a bird with that level of damage.

I recently rescued a pionus who had only just begun stepping up for her caretaker after at least six months of living with him, but she now steps up readily for me most times. She has been. Ore comfortable with me from the get go, it could be you walk into a rescue and into the heart of a bird right away, and recieve a warm feathery welcome.

Sorry, using the iPad and in a hurry may lead to sloppy typing.

 

[Cambios]

How far from Huntington WV are you?

That's a 2 hour drive. Pretty easy. Straight up I-64.

 

[Cambios]

We made a trip down to Richmond, KY to visit a breeder and shop owner (Home - The Parrot's Nest & Derby City Aviary).

I am no expert, but I got a great impression from visiting this place. As far as I could tell, they only do birds and they had a lovely setup for them. A lot of room for the birds to walk/fly/climb around and play. Every single bird there was incredibly friendly. I was blown away. My older daughter must have held 20 or so different birds, and they were all very friendly, would step up just fine, loved to be held, etc. Not a single one shied away from us, bit, anything. They all loved to be held and played with.

Every bird also clearly loved the owner of the shop. It was incredibly evident that she doesn't just hand feed them, she gives every bird a lot of attention and love. She gives everyone who buys a bird her personal cell phone number and says to call any time of day or night if there is a question or a concern. And I believe her, because last night I called the shop at 2:30am hoping to get the hours of the store from a recording. She actually called me back and said when I didn't leave a message, she was worried it was someone with a bird emergency, so she called me back just in case. WOW!

ANYWAY..... On to the birds.

There were so many wonderful birds there that we liked. Taking your advice here, we kinda avoided any of the "hot three" amazons. There was a mini macaw and a White Bellied Caique that we liked a lot, but ultimately, our two favorites were a blue and gold Macaw and a Conure.

Pictures below are our youngest daughter holding our two favorites from so many wonderful birds:

Blue and Gold Macaw: Before today, my wife and I both thought "well whatever we do, we don't want one of those big macaws." Well, I guess this is why you do your research and actually go see some birds. I had no idea how sweet and gentle and cuddly these birds are. This macaw was so gentle I couldn't believe it. It just loved to sit in my lap and be stroked.

I am worried about how I read they are especially messy, loud, and since they are big can be particularly destructive. I think of those issues, the loudness isn't a big concern. We live in a house and well.... I'm kinda loud myself! haha. But super messy and destructive would be concerns.

Sun Conure: This little cutie was super friendly as well and loved to be held and climb all over us. It was also very beautiful. Our youngest daughter really loved this one a lot and held it a bunch.

So here's the crossroads we are at now:

1) Which one! . All four of us like both birds, but the macaw is probably the favorite of me and my older daughter. The conure is the favorite of my wife and our younger daughter.

I like that the macaw is so affectionate and so intelligent. The fact that they can learn so many things (talking, communicating, tricks, games, etc) seems like it would be amazing.

The conure is smaller and sweet and probably a little easier of an adjustment for everyone (especially our youngest daughter). It is also less expensive all around (to buy, feed, supplies, cage, etc). It also seems very affectionate and will likely love snuggling up on people.

2) We were originally afraid to get a big bird like the macaw. We were worried about noise, mess, destructiveness, all sorts of things like that. The owner said the blue and golds are better about a lot of these things, though she did not discount the fact that they are loud and big and all that entails.

3) How insane is it to get two birds? This seems crazy, but maybe it is the best answer for us? The two birds grew up together. They actually eat out of the same bowl and have been friends since they were babies.

 

[EAI]

1)With the Macaw, it could lead to very bad injuries (with your daughters). Once maturity hits he/she could become pretty mean and those beaks can do a lot of damage, we're talking about biting off fingers if something really pushes them. This may not be the entire case, but a bite from them is pretty painful either way. If you want to go to the Macaw route, the smaller species would be a better choice. They can still pack a punch in their bite but it's not so bad as the larger ones.
I like Conures a bit more, because of their size you save some space for their cage. They can still bite and scream like a Macaw, but it isn't so bad. Pyrrhura conures could be nice too, they're the quieter ones in the Conure family. You also have the potential of training a Sun Conure all the tricks a Macaw can do.

2) I heard that Green Wing Macaws were more on the gentle side.

3) If you have the finance for both and the time for both I don't see why not. But you have to be careful because a Macaw beak vs a Conure beak will have a pretty bad outcome if they fight.

Sorry I had to breeze by this pretty fast since I'm double tasking with my homework but good luck with your search! I personally vote for the Sun Conure.

 

[khaiqha]

I vote you go with the bird you fall in love with. You're more likely to adapt and make changes to accommodate the bird you just just connect with. Having said that, here are some things to consider:

1) Macaws will be messier and more destructive than conures. A conure can pop the keys off your keyboard. A macaw can break the actual keyboard. A macaw is going to need much more supervision around your children than a conure, especially as the bird matures. Adult birds of all species behave differently than they did as babies.

Macaws will be more expensive, in terms of food, toys, and what they destroy. They will also live much longer, which can be a pro/con depending on what you're looking for.

2) Sun conures are some of the most commonly rehomed birds next to cockatoos. The reason is because of their scream. It's loud, piercing, and can be constant. They scream when they're happy, upset, hungry, full, etc. They just enjoy screaming. Training can reduce the amount of screaming, but realize it will always be there.

As for getting both birds, I would only recommend that if you want to have two birds. They'll be fine if they're split up.

Are you planning on having your bird flighted?

 

[RavensGryf]

I vote Sun Conure.

Edit: sorry I just didn't feel like writing lol. Well said by Victoria (riddick07). She has some good insight and a good suggestion about finding a parrot rescue that might be able to educate you first hand on a mature bird.

Also, have you or your young children ever heard an adult macaw yell full blast? Even in a large room, if you're standing right there close, it will blow your hair back and make you temporarily deaf!! It could be frightening if you're not expecting it.

 

[riddick07]

Okay so I vote for both IF you train them right. A macaw that is trained and socialized well while little can easily be handled while going through maturity if you KNOW what you are doing. My suggestion is find a shelter that can help you figure these things out. Dealing with a baby macaw is different from dealing with an adult macaw with behavior issues. Going to a shelter will teach you all you need to know about how badly people screw these birds up when they are young. A macaw that is raised right is a sweet bird even when reaching adult hood. You don't train it right or socialize it right you will have a monster on your hands that can do serious damage to everyone in the family. On the damage a macaw doesn't go through maturity until about 7 to 12 I believe is the full range. Your daughters will be older and more able to handle/understand a bird with a hormonal attitude issue. And even the well raised birds are going to have moments when going through maturity. You handle those moments right and you will be perfectly fine. But just reading doesn't really prepare you for the adult version with a little attitude Just think of the slight dread you feel for the upcoming teenage years of your kids....kind of like that but with a can opener beak I think John, one of the owners of the rescue I volunteer at, describes it as a hormonal two year old with a teenage attitude problem running around with a knife.... gotta love John and his visuals....

A sun conure can be taught to be quiet. Again start young don't expect to have a well behaved bird if you don't start training from day one. You don't coddle the birds just because they are new treat them how you will their whole lives. I know the new bird is exciting but you have to live with this animal for decades and you really don't want to screw up and live with the worst child in the world for all those decades...

Also, from what you are describing on how little these birds will be alone could become an issue. You want them to be independent and able to socialize/entertain themselves. Do not make the mistake of too much attention or you create a clingy monster that goes crazy when left alone for 5 minutes. While I think you should get both I do not think you need to get both right this second. Make sure you fully understand behavior when it comes to these animals especially the macaw. Jeanne and John at A Helping Wing rescue in NJ specialize in rehabbing macaws. If you have questions about behavior they can and will help you with your macaw if you decide to go that direction and need more help then you feel you are getting or understanding online

Good luck!

 

[SilverSage]

First, you really REALLY need to interact with some adult birds before making a choice, because most babies are going to be super sweet unless something is really wrong. That said however, I think you and your family are doing a lot better than most when trying to choose a bird.

Should you get both? I love the idea. However, be sure you really want two birds before you bring them both home, because they both deserve to be "number one" in someones heart. There is a slight concern with them being so different in size, but if in the end you are going to want one of each it is far better to get them both as babies at the same time rather than waiting until one establishes his territory, and then bringing another bird into that. I am a huge supporter of multi-bird families, because birds are FLOCK ANIMALS, and humans are great, but I think it is best to have another bird in the home. Nothing against single bird homes, of course. Each home needs to make their own choice.

Do be aware that neither of these species you are choosing is famous for being quiet But birds tend to reflect the noise level of the home, and parrots can be trained to vocalize when it is appropriate, and using proper reinforcement you can teach your birds not to scream. Bringing home two birds will be a big challenge, but one of the most rewarding projects you could ever undertake.

 

[riddick07]

By the way I really wished you lived near NJ you sound like the perfect family for a shelter birdie Plus, we have this little disabled amazon who loves kids and probably would have been a good match with you guys! Vacation near NJ for a week or two????:54:

 

[EAI]

Agreeing with RavensGryf, their screams will literally make you lose your hearing for at least 4 seconds. I've been Lion Dancing for the past 7 years and a Sun Conure scream is worst then Chinese New Year lol.
My sister screams and jumps when Gizmo and Izzy made any noise (which is far quieter than a Sunnie) so taking such a loud bird could cause your girls to scream, scaring the birds. This goes for both birds. And Macaws, full grown, will be about ear-level with your daughters and they do scream unexpectedly. (And most reactions to a bird screaming is the human either screaming too and or dropping the bird. Dropping the bird can result in the bird being afraid or aggressive and a possible injury).

The only Macaw I heard was a Hyacinth and I was around 20 feet away in an open area in Waikiki and boy was that loud.

Just wanting to add as well that when a Macaw is perched on your arm, this is just my experience, their talons feel like they're digging 3 feet into your arm. Not the best feeling.