found the culprit

[LordTriggs]

Over the weekend I decided to do a deep clean of my home as I found a couple bugs recently wandering around and I think I found out what killed Rio.

I had been given an air fryer by my mother when I moved out this year and I didn't think about it at all. When I was giving it a good scrubbing I noticed a marking on its side where a sticker must have been once. The mark left by the sticker read "Tefal" For those that know ofcourse you now know exactly what made Rio go. Damn TEFLON!

I now know exactly what happened and how it took so long to manifest. I rarely used the fryer, only for occasional potato chunks in place of fries and the weekend he went was the first cold weekend since I had got Rio. At least the first one where the windows were closed whilst he was in his cage. It hadn't taken effect before clearly because the fumes had cleared out quickly whenever I had cooked something.

I can't believe I never thought about it, all the time I spent bird-proofing, the time I spent checking the entire home for anything dangerous, checking for a crack a draft could come through, a nail out of place, clearing out all traces of mold, everything I had done and I never even looked at that stupid device! I even turned down seeing a non-avian vet on the weekend he showed signs of illness to wait for a certified one and now I know if I had just gone he would have gotten out of the fumes and into some fresh air which might just have saved him.

Taken note people to check Everything over and over when getting a new product in a parrot house or when getting a parrot! The smallest most innocent thing could be lethal. I have to live no knowing I could have saved that little guy and it was entirely my fault he died

sorry I just needed to air out over this.

 

[Scott]

A good chance you have uncovered the culprit and explanation for occasional use of the fryer without consequence.

Very sorry this happened, despite the best of effort and intent.

 

[LordTriggs]

I just feel stupid now above all else. I know I can't change anything now but to know that if I just thought I could have prevented his passing. I may have to take the fryer and relieve some stress on it at the weekend

I have filed a complaint with tefal, not expecting much but tried to offer some constructive ideas for them, such as putting on their packaging and products that they're unsafe for use around certain animals. It won't come through but has helped me feel a bit better. Being able to put blame on to something/someone

 

[plumsmum2005]

Really sorry, thanks for sharing this information as may help save another parrot sometime. Best of luck with Tefal btw! I cannot bring Rio back for you unfortunately so send a hug instead. He will always be in your heart.

 

[tashawithanekkie]

oh man, that's hard. so sorry. sending mental hugs.

 

[Kentuckienne]

Oh, that's hard. I'm sorry. Things like that aren't obvious.

I bought an electric pressure cooker, and when I checked it found a gray, plastic looking coating on the heating element. The manufacturer's website is full of "no teflon" and when people on Amazon ask, the rep responds "no teflon at all". I asked on their Facebook page, thinking surely someone has verified this before, and you wouldn't believe how many people called me anal, said they never worry about it, they cook with that stuff for 25 years, won't hurt the bird blah blah. So even if they put on the warning, there are people who won't listen.

Then again, most of them were Americans... where facts seem to be relative these days. I know you would never have used the pot if you had known.

 

[Teddscau]

I'm so sorry. I've lost three budgies this past year, so I understand what you're going through. Charlie, who was at least 9, died because I let a vet talk me out of having testing done on him. Because of it, he was prescribed Metacam for what turned out to be heart disease! Metacam exponentially increases the risk of congestive heart in individuals suffering from heart disease. Charlie was terrified and was in agony the day he died. He didn't die until 8 or 9pm, after I'd held him for an hour as he struggled to breathe. I refuse to use Metacam ever again. If I'd just been more proactive, he might not have died. Two weeks before he died, I learned he had heart disease which was causing his ascites (none of the vets even knew what ascites aka "water belly" was). Had I looked up "Metacam" and "heart disease", he might still be alive .

Anyways, try not to blame yourself. How could you have known it was the stupid Tefal? You'd used it plenty of times before (albeit with the windows open), and Rio was fine. If anyone's to blame, it's the stupid manufacturer and the lazy, incompetent vets who couldn't be bothered to come into work to be paid triple their average price to save a young bird.

There was this one forum I used to go on, and one of the members was completely distraught, as their button quail was suffering from egg binding. They called every vet for miles around, but they got the typical, "Sorry, we don't do birds," BS. Honestly, all you have to do is get a scalpel, make a tiny incision on either side of the cloaca, and carefully remove the egg. But no, not one of those idiots would do it because birds are beyond their comprehension. Needless to say, the poor quail died because nobody would perform a simple procedure.

And fudge, man, no matter how careful you are, mistakes will be made. I was consulting with Dr. Ross Perry, and he thinks Samantha has freaking heavy metal poisoning. It's like being told your 8 month old infant (not that I have or want human children) swallowed a razor blade. Until manufacturers get their acts together and quit putting phthalates, zinc, lead, formaldehyde, etc., in absolutely everything, all we can do is try to stay vigilant. The fact that non-humans can even survive for a few days, let alone years, in our toxin-filled world is a miracle!


Oh, and good one, Kentuckienne! You Americans and your alternative facts . It was this one Republican representative that finally accepted the truth that trees cause global warming . I think that was Rohrabacher. Also, always assume everything is non-stick. Toasters, heaters, heat bulbs, air conditioners, etc. Legit, they put that non-stick garbage in the stupidest of things.

 

[Kentuckienne]

I have been prowling the internet again. It's possible that the Tefal pot didn't cause Rio's death. There is a link below to the Wikipedia entry for "teflon" and it confirms what I've read in several other places so far: teflon products don't begin to break down below 500 degrees F. Some small amount of gases can be produced at 480 degrees F. It says most meat frying is done at 450 degrees. Some oils will begin to smoke before the 500 degree point but some can get hotter before they start smoking.

So..if you had oil in the fryer, it might not have gotten hot enough for the Tefal to start breaking down. I don't want to imply it's safe to use a gadget like that - I don't use any teflon stuff - but it might have been something else all along and not PTFE Toxicosis.

Nerdy link:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polytetrafluoroethylene

Another good link about PTFE and birds:
Teflon Toxicity (PTFE Toxicosis) in Birds: Signs and Prevention

 

[Anansi]

I'm so sorry about Rio's passing, no matter the cause. Don't be too hard on yourself. It was an oversight, and not a one of us here can claim never to have overlooked something we should have seen.

Just want to point out two things, though. First, while teflon is a non-stick coating, not all non-stick coatings are teflon. Teflon is a brand name. (Kind of like how most people call all small bandages "Band-aids", even though only the ones from Johnson & Johnson actually have that name.)

This is an important distinction, as a non-stick pan that does not have the teflon brand can be every bit as lethal to our fids. Teflon is the most popular example of applied polytetrafluoroethylene based compounds, more simply known as PTFE. So when searching for bird-safe cookware, don't limit your search to teflon free. You want PTFE and PFOA (Perfluorooctanoic Acid) free. Personally, I use ceramic coated pans. Great stuff.

Another thing to note, while Kentuckienne is absolutely right about the temperature at which teflon products break down and release toxic gases into the air, I believe that I once read even that metric changes once there has been any damage to the surface coating. You know, like when that well-meaning family member takes a brillo pad to your teflon pan? I don't recall how big a difference it makes, and I suppose at that point it would be relative to the extent of the damage done. Either way, however, best to just get entirely away from those types of cookware altogether.

LordTriggs, thank you for your willingness to share this tragic revelation with us as a warning for others and their birds. I know it can't be easy to discuss.

 

[LordTriggs]

Yes I had actually gone out before getting rio and spent a hell of a lot of money on a load of PTFE/PFOA free cookware, I say Teflon as Tefal exclusively uses that stuff but yes any of those non-stick coatings containing those chemicals is dangerous. I think whilst yes there's the 500 degree thing I think time can break them down and allow the coating to fume. As the one I had was older I think that's what happened.

Annoyingly if I had just seen the brand name on the device I would have launched that thing out of the window. I guess it's just another lesson on the road.

Thanks for the support everyone, it strangely does help just to talk and share about this kind of thing. I'll always take solace in him at least being happy even at the end, grinding his little beak away and wanting cuddles

I'll also just add to this, it would be brilliant if some initiative could be started for companies to label if their products are pet safe or not. Considering in the US parrots are among the most kept pets you would think there would be something on toxicity with them and with the sheer amount of pets kept you think there would be a goldmine in slapping a big sticker on your cookware, appliances, even cleaning products stating they are safe to use around your pets. Maybe I'm crazy but it just seems like a win-win for everyone involved

 

[Kentuckienne]

You know what would be do-able? A phone app, scan the barcode thing and it pops up with information about is it safe for birds. I don't have the chops but I bet there is someone here who can do it. We would all go out and scan barcodes to populate the database.

 

[LordTriggs]

You know what would be do-able? A phone app, scan the barcode thing and it pops up with information about is it safe for birds. I don't have the chops but I bet there is someone here who can do it. We would all go out and scan barcodes to populate the database.

That's not actually a bad plan.

I wish I could code cause I would legitimately start making that now. Wouldn't even take much to do, mainly research. Data wise it would just take a very simple table containing the barcode, the product then the individual components used to make with a simple formula linked to another table listing the hazardous items, if the formula doesn't find any hazardous items then it pings up noting it's safe, if it links to an item in the list then it pings up as dangerous. Due to the size of the tables it would require connection to a server which would allow for constant updates.

Damn this could legit be a good money making and life saving idea. Better than my bored thought of the "bird simulator"

 

[Kentuckienne]

You know what would be do-able? A phone app, scan the barcode thing and it pops up with information about is it safe for birds. I don't have the chops but I bet there is someone here who can do it. We would all go out and scan barcodes to populate the database.

That's not actually a bad plan.

I wish I could code cause I would legitimately start making that now. Wouldn't even take much to do, mainly research. Data wise it would just take a very simple table containing the barcode, the product then the individual components used to make with a simple formula linked to another table listing the hazardous items, if the formula doesn't find any hazardous items then it pings up noting it's safe, if it links to an item in the list then it pings up as dangerous. Due to the size of the tables it would require connection to a server which would allow for constant updates.

Damn this could legit be a good money making and life saving idea. Better than my bored thought of the "bird simulator"

Nah, that's too complicated. I'm thinking a simple database with the barcode, a comment from a knowledgeable human about whether or not it's safe, and why. People can look up the details on their own, but it would at least give them a clue that a thing might have problems.

 

[LordTriggs]

true but if I were to make it I would prefer to make the feedback to the user easier. Just a big green tick or a big red X when a product is scanned. You know what some people are like. Could be especially useful with bird toys. "happy hut" big X, "made in china" big X, "natural unpainted soft wood" Tick!

 

[Ladyhawk]

I just feel stupid now above all else. I know I can't change anything now but to know that if I just thought I could have prevented his passing. I may have to take the fryer and relieve some stress on it at the weekend

I have filed a complaint with tefal, not expecting much but tried to offer some constructive ideas for them, such as putting on their packaging and products that they're unsafe for use around certain animals. It won't come through but has helped me feel a bit better. Being able to put blame on to something/someone

I'm very sorry for your loss and hope you'll realize that 1) you're not stupid; we're human and can't always think of every eventuality. 2) "what if's" won't bring little Rio back and will make you miserable and 3) the only constructive use for guilt is to keep us from making the same mistake again. If we focus on guilt too much, it can't serve its function because we aren't paying attention.

I keep telling people this because it reminds me I shouldn't wallow in guilt. My natural inclination would be to torture myself over Gabby's death, but I'm choosing not to. It's an ongoing battle.

And boy do I ever wish companies were forced to print "harmful or fatal to companion birds" on their teflon products and packaging. I wonder if there's ever been a concerted effort on our parrots' behalf. That's something I could really get behind, even though I've decided to abandon politics forever.

Corporations will vigorously resist such labeling because "consumers" will realize a simple truth: If teflon is bad for birds (canary in the coal mine), it's bad for people. I doubt any studies have been done on the long-term effects of teflon on people.

I wish you healing and peace of mind.

 

[wrench13]

Triggs keep in mind that Teflon and other non-stick coatings are considered deadly when they are over heated and then out-gas the deadly compounds. SO unless you ran your frier with no oil in it or managed some other way of making the teflon exceed its normal operating temps, I don;t know that you have reached the right conclusion as to the cause of Rio's passing.

Still, he has passed, and that doesn't change. I am like you - threw out every item that had nonstick coating on it or in it, just to be safe.

 

[clark_conure]

Not for nothing I realize I have a deep fryer I only used once because its too small and it sucks. I'm going to check it out and maybe toss it. I never even thought about it till your post.

 

[Jottlebot]

Thank you LordTriggs for putting up the original post and thank you to Ladyhawk for commenting and bringing it back to the Active Topics list.

YOU HAVE JUST SAVED 3 LIVES.

I'm having tea (or dinner if you're not from here) with a friend tonight because she is looking after another friends 3 birds, an IRN, Amazon and conure. I want to see them and also we're sharing diet woes because we're both on a weight loss mission before summer holidays! She's cooking for us and we're having something I can't spell, but is basically a posh beef stew-type thing. It takes hours to cook and is gorgeous!! We're off oil so she'll be digging out her trusty old non-stick pan to brown everything... I'm sure you can see the problem!

I knew about non-stick pots and pans, but never even thought about my friend using it! She's a wonderful cook and her kitchen is spotless apart from this one pan. We've even joked in the past about how old and grotty it looked, but she swears by it - I have pointed out that I'm pretty sure it's bad for humans to eat out of a damaged non-stick pan, but that doesn't seem to bother her. I read the first post and called her immediately. She said it was on the hob as I called. It has been replaced back in the bottom of its drawer until she no longer has her house guests.

Thank you so much x